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STVJOIA IN/ 




This book belongs to 

THE LIBRARY 

of 
VICTORIA UNIVERSITY 

Toronto 5, Canada 



THE LOEB CLASSICAL LIBRARY 

FOUKDKD BY JAM£S LOEB, LL.D. 

KDITED BY 
fT. E. PAGE. C.H., LITT.D. 

tE. CAPPS, PH.D., IX.D. tW. H. D. ROUSE, UTr.D. 

L. A. POST, L.H.D. E. H. WARMIXGTOX, m.a., f.b.hist.soc. 



PLATO 



PLATO 

WITH AN ENGLISH TRANSLATION 
IX 

LAWS 

BY 

R. G. BURY, Lirr.D. 

POR3fXIU.Y SCHOI AR OP TBIiOTT COIXKOK, CAMBRIDGE 

IN TWO VOLUMES 
I 




CAMBRIDGE, MASSACHUSETTS 

HARVARD UNIVERSITY PRESS 

LONDON 

WILLIAM HEINEMANN LTD 

ilCMLSI 



PA 

427<1 

Ai 

V. q 



J^iVit printed 1926 
Reprinted 1942, 1952, 1961 

Sf D 2 IMl 



Printed in Great Britain 



CONTENTS 



rAox 

INTRODUCTION VU 

BOOK I 3 

BOOK n 89 

BOOK III 165 

BOOK IV 255 

BOOK V 323 

BOOK VI 303 



INTRODUCTION 

According to tradition, Plato was born in 427 B.C. 
and died in 347 b.c, leaving behind him as his last 
work the Lmvs. We may, therefore, suppose that 
the last decade of his life was mainly occupied with 
its composition. The internal evidence of the work 
itself sufficiently confirms tradition. Not only does 
it lack the charm and vigour of the earlier dialogues, 
but it is marked also by much uncouthness of style, 
and by a tendency to pedantry, tautology and dis- 
cursive garrulity which seems to point to the 
failing powers of the author. Moreover, the author 
himself indicates his own advanced age by the 
artistic device of representing the three interlocutors 
in the dialogue as old men, and by the stress he 
repeatedly lays upon the fact of their age, as well 
as upon the reverence due from the young to 
the old. 

The scene is laid in Crete, and it is during a walk 
from Cnosus to the grotto of Zeus on Mount Ida, on 
a long midsummer day, that the conversation here 
related is supposed to have taken place. Of the 
three old men, one is an Athenian, one (Clinias) a 
Cretan^ one (Megillus) a Spartan. The protagonist 
is the Athenian, and nearly all the talking is done 
by him. His companions are little more than 
listeners, rather dull of wit, and incapable of adding 

vii 



INTRODUCTION 

anything original to the discussion. The choice of 
their nationality, however, is significant, since the 
main body of the laws framed for the Model City is 
derived from the codes actually in force in Athens, 
Sparta and Crete. 

Voluminous and discursive as the Laws is, and 
framed, apparently, on no artistic plan, it is difficult 
for a reader to find his way through the maze and to 
see what connexion exists between the various parts 
and the relevance of each part to the argument as a 
whole. To help towards an understanding it may 
be well to give a brief analysis of the argument, 
book by book. 

Book I.— Divine though their lawgivers were, the 
laws of Sparta and Crete are deficient, inasmuch as 
they aim solely at Courage, which is but one fraction 
of Virtue. A more important virtue is Temperance, 
or the right attitude towards pleasure and pain. 
For the promotion of temperance we need tests, and 
drinking-parties form admirable tests, although their 
educational value in this connexion has not hitherto 
been recognised. 

Book II. — Another use of strong drink is to inspire 
age with something of the fire of youth, so that the 
old may take an active part in Music and may direct 
the musical training of the young on the right lines. 
A discussion of music and dancing leads up to the 
conclusion that we must form a " Dionysiac Chorus" 
of old men to act as an Academy of Music and to 
maintain a correct standard of taste in all that 
concerns Drama and the Arts. 

Book III. — Beginning with primitive man, the 
survivors of the Flood, an historical survey is made of 
the origin and development of civic communities and 

viii 



INTRODUCTION 

their laws. The Dorian Confederacy, the Persian 
Empire, and the Athenian Democracy are examined 
in turn, and the seeds of political decay in each of 
them are pointed out. It is shown, from these ex- 
amples, how the extremes of liberty and of tyranny 
are alike disastrous. 

Book IV. — Clinias, it appears, has been appointed 
a joint-founder of a new Magnesian Colony. This 
gives a practical turn to the discussion, and hence- 
forth the question is — how is such a colony to be 
rightly shaped? The conditions of the colony, as 
described by Clinias, suggest to the Athenian observa- 
tions on the danger of a seaboard and foreign trade, 
and on the advantages of a heterogeneous population. 
If a "true polity" is to be successfully established, 
chance must aid skill, and a wise despot must co- 
operate with a divine lawgiver ; for a '• true polity " 
is one wherein Law reigns with undisputed sway, 
and where all the laws are framed in the interests of 
the community as a whole. To the Law, as also to 
God and to all superior powers, man is bound to 
render duty and service in all humility. In order 
to inculcate this attitude of voluntary and intelli- 
gent obedience, laws must be provided with pre- 
ambles or preludes of an explanatory and hortatory 
description. 

Book \. — As an example ot such a hortatory pre- 
lude, the duty of paying due honour to the Soul, as 
the most divine part of man, is expounded at length. 
Then follow a number of detailed regulations re- 
garding the selection of citizens, the number of 
households in the State, allotments and their 
arrangements, and property-holdings. 

Book VI. — ^The SUte officials to be appointed 



INTRODUCTION 

are enumei'ated, and the methods of their appoint- 
ment prescribed — Law-wardens, Military Officers, — 
Council, — Religious Officials, — Stewards for Market, 
City and Country, — Presidents of Music and Gym- 
nastics (chief of whom is the Superintendent of 
Education), — Judges. Then comes legislation deal- 
ing with the organisation of the households in tribes, 
— festivals and social functions, — marriage (which is 
a civic duty) and the ceremonies which attend it, — 
slaves and their treatment, — public and private build- 
ings, — the regulation of private life and domestic 
affairs (discussing how far these should be legally 
controlled), — the time-limits proper for marriage, 
and for militaiy service and the holding of public 
office. 

Book VII. — Regulations for the education of the 
young. Up to the age of three continual movement 
is to be prescribed for children ; from three to six, 
regulated play ; after six, regular instruction in music 
and gymnastic, combined with play. Emphasis is 
laid on the need of left-hand training, and the value 
of ambidexterity. Then follows a discussion on the 
subjects of right selection in regard to dance and 
song, and the relation of Art and Religion to the 
ultimate aim of human life. It is laid down that 
the education of females must be identical with that 
of males, and that the supreme task for all is self- 
perfection. But the Lawgiver's work in regulating 
education is rendered specially difficult owing to the 
natural intractability of the child. Rules are given 
respecting instruction in reading, writing and lyre- 
playing, together with supplementary observations 
on gymnastic and dancing. A discourse on "mathe- 
matical necessity " serves as a preface to advice 



INTRODUCTION 

concerning arithmetic and geometry ; and this is 
followed by regulations for field-sports. 

Book VIII. — Regulations for military exercises 
and sham-fights, with a disquisition on the defects 
in the characters of States, such as the commercial 
spirit, which hinder due military training : and fur- 
ther observations regarding details of military train- 
ing. Next to be dealt with are — the sex-instinct, 
with advice for its regulation, — the production and 
distribution of food, — laws for the control of agri- 
culture, — artisans, — foreign trade, — the distribution 
of home and foreign produce, — markets. 

Book IX. — Legal actions and penalties for the 
crimes of sacrilege and high treason, followed by a 
digression dealing with the art of legislation, the 
motives of crime, and the use of the terms " volun- 
tary" and "involuntary" as applied to criminal 
actions. Cases of "Crimes against the person" — 
murder, wounding and assault. 

Book X. — A discussion of atheism and irreligion, 
and how they are caused and promulgated, is 
followed by a threefold argument directed against 
three types of misbelievers, viz. (a) those who deny 
the existence of gods ; (6) those who assert that the 
gods take no interest in men or their affairs (whereas 
it is a duty incumbent on all to believe firmly in a 
supreme Providence) ; (c) those who hold that the 
gods are corruptible by bribes. Laws are enacted to 
suppress these various forms of impiety, and also 
to prohibit private cults. 

Book XI. — Regulations and observations concern- 
ing property-rights, — buyingand selling, — commercial 
honesty, — retail trade and inn-keeping, — breaches of 
contract, — military rewards, — last wills and testa- 

zi 



INTRODUCTION 

merits, — orphans, — family disputes, — divorce, — the 
honour due to age, — injuries by means of drugs and 
witchcraft, — thefts and acts of violence, — insanity, — 
abusive language, — public ridicule, — mendicancy, — 
the responsibility of masters for the acts of their 
slaves, — witnesses in courts of law, — the employment 
of professional advocates. 

Book XII. — Regulations and observations concern- 
ing the duties of ambassadors, — the wickedness of 
theft, especially of State property, — the benefit to 
the State of habits of discipline in the citizens, — 
hence military service, with carefully adjudged 
rewards and penalties, must be universally com- 
pulsory — the Court of Examiners, their appointment 
and their duties, — oaths forbidden in the law-courts, 
— promptness in executing sentences, — foreign 
travel by the citizens, when permissible, and in what 
respect beneficial to the State. Various minor 
regulations are added respecting stolen goods, rights 
of search, property-holdings, etc. Then follows a 
review of the judicial arrangements, including 
appeals, with further observations on the importance 
of the study of Law, and on executions. After some 
supplementary rules have been given concerning 
funerals and tombs, we come to a description of the 
Nocturnal Synod, its function and constitution, and 
the training of its members ; and with this the work 
concludes. 

It will be clear from this analysis that the title 
of Laws is a very insufficient— not to say mislead- 
ing — description of its contents. Barely one-third 
of the work consists of " laws " in the literal sense of 
the term ; the rest is a far-ranging discussion of all 



INTRODUCTION 

that concerns the life of man as a " political animal." 
Human natui-e in general is the main theme of the 
latter part of Book I, Book II, and large sections of 
Books V and VII ; while the earlier part of Book I, 
Book III, and Book IV have for their main theme 
human nature in its social and civic aspect. In the 
other books, moreover, which do actually deal with 
"laws" Plato is enabled to introduce much that 
would otherwise be excluded by means of his novel 
theory of the twofold nature of law. Laws, he 
argues, ought not only to coerce but also to persuade ; 
therefore to every law there should be prefixed a 
preamble or prelude, explaining and justifying the 
law. This legal prelude he compares (by a play on 
the double sense of po'/aos — " law " and musical 
"chant") with the proem or prologue of an ode or 
drama. The whole of Book X, which purports to be 
a special prelude to the law against impiety, is in 
reality a general prelude, discussing the existence of 
the gods, and the nature of the soul, in fact, a 
disquisition de reruvi natura. And in Book VII, 
again, we have what is more of a general than of a 
special prelude dealing with the subject of the sex- 
instinct and its indulgence. 

In his view of the State Plato relaxes the rigidity 
of the communistic principles he had advocated in 
the Republic : he allows the individual citizen to 
possess a wife and family of his own and a certain 
amount of private property. None the less, he 
constantly insists on the entire subordination of the 
individual to the State, on the principle (which holds 
throughout the universe) that no part is independent, 
but every part exists for the sake of its whole. Con- 
sequently the State he pictures — the Model City of 



INTRODUCTION 

the Magnesians — although confessedly inferior to the 
Ideal Republic, is one in which the life of every man 
and woman, from the cradle to the grave, is strictly 
regulated by legal prescriptions. At all costs 
anarchy must be suppressed, discipline maintained. 

The authority thus claimed for the State is justified 
by means of the deification of Law. The supreme 
Divinity is Reason (vovs), the Ruler of the Heavens, 
and Law (i o/aos) is nothing else than the dispensation 
of Reason (vov Siavofn^). Hence our State is, in fact, 
a Theocracy ; and all the sanctions of religion can be 
invoked in support of its constitution and its laws. 
He that ofFendeth against the law, or its officers, 
ofiTendeth against God. 

The aim of Reason is always the Good, and this, 
therefore, is the objective of the State and its 
laws. They aim at the cultivation and conservation 
of virtue, or civic excellence (^aper-q). But of Virtue 
as a whole there are two species which receive 
special attention in the Laws, namely. Temperance 
or Self-control {aw(f>pocrvvri), and Wisdom {(ftpovrjais or 
vov?). The promotion of temperance is the main 
subject of Book I, and the elaborate regulations for 
the education of the young are all directed to foster 
this virtue. The main requisite for the bulk of the 
citizens is a self-controlled and law-abiding disposi- 
tion : the key-notes of their lives should be reverence 
(aiScis) and " moderation " (/icrpioTT/s) — a " sweet 
reasonableness" which yields willing obedience to the 
higher powers. But for a select body of the highest 
officials (as for the " Guardian " class of the Republic) 
a higher type of education is required, calculated to 
promote the superior virtue of wisdom. The 
" Nocturnal Synod " described in Book XII is 



INTRODUCTION 

designed to be the special repository of Wisdom 
hi the Model City ; and since it alone contains any 
element of divine Reason, it alone can be trusted to 
supplement or amend the divine ordinances handed 
down by the original Lawgiver. 

But the main duty of the Nocturnal Synod — as, 
indeed, of all the State officials — is that of conserva- 
tion (<r(D7T/pia), the maintenance of the status quo. In 
the higher spheres of religion and science this duty 
devolves ujwn the Synod, in the sphere of Art it 
devolves upon the Dionysiac Chorus. Both these 
bodies are composed mostly of old men : the natural 
conservatism of the old will make them the best 
''saviours " (crtuT^pes) of the State, because the most 
stubborn opponents of every kind of innovation. 

The concentration of all the political power in the 
hands of the old is, in truth, one of the most 
characteristic features of the Laws, and another sign 
of its author's age. The Model City would be only 
too likely, one thinks, to strike the youth of to-day 
as a Paradise for the old but a Purgatory for the 
young. 

Since most of the power is thus given to a limited 
class, it is fair to describe the State of the Larrs as a 
moderate oligarchy ; although the historical survey 
in Book III, with its discussion of political types, 
might lead one to expect a rather different, and more 
liberal, combination of monarchy with democracy — 
the principle of order with the principle of freedom. 
As it is, the average citizen is given but little 
freedom, except the freedom to obey. And, though 
the State here pictured has been not unfitly 
described as "a mixture of .Athenian constitutional 
forms and Athenian freedom with Spartan training 



INTRODUCTION 

and Spartan order, a practical via media between the 
two extremes of contemporary Greece/' ^ yet it must 
be confessed that there is much more of the Spartan 
element in the mixture than of the Athenian, much 
less of democracy than of aristocracy. The " Athenian 
Stranger" of the Laws is no less of an anti-democrat 
than the "Socrates" of the Republic; and his con- 
viction of the natural perversity and stupidity of the 
average man has increased with the passing of the 
years. The saying vox populi, vox dei is, for Plato, 
the supreme lie. 

Politics and Ethics are, naturally, the subjects 
with which the Latvs is mainly concerned ; but in 
the Tenth Book we get something also of psycho- 
logical and metaphysical doctrine. In his vindication 
of Religion in that Book — to which reference has 
been made above — Plato elaborates that view of Sou! 
as the principle of self-movement which he had 
indicated, much earlier, in the Phaedrus. His dis- 
cussion of the relation of Soul to Motion, on the one 
hand, and to Reason, on the other, together with his 
new classification of the kinds of motion, and his 
distinction between primary and secondary motions, 
form the most valuable additions to Platonic 
philosophy which the Laws contains. 

In conclusion, be it said that besides much that is 
tedious in matter and ungraceful in style, the Laws 
also contains (to quote Jowett) " a few passages 
which are very grand and noble " ; and " no other 
writing of Plato shows so profound an insight into 
the world and into human nature as the Laws." In 
it the philosopher-statesman has garnered the last 

* E, Barker, Political Thought of Plato and Aristotle, p. 202. 
xvi 



INTRODUCTION 

fruits of many years of experience and of reflection ; 
and, as he himself would have us believe, the 
principles it enunciates are valid for all time. 

The only English conmientary on the Larvs is 
that by E. B. England, a work of fine scholarship 
and most valuable, the text being based on Burnet's. 
Schanz's text contains only the first six books. Of 
other recent contributions to the study of the work, 
those of C. Ritter (1896) and O. Apelt(1916) are the 
most important. The te.xt here printed is based on 
that of the Zurich edition of Baiter, Orelli, and 
Winckelmann (1839), the chief deviations from 
which are indicated in the foot-notes. 



LAWS 



NOMOI 



St. I. TA TOY AIAAOrOY HPOSfinA 

p. 624 

AeHNAIOS EEN02, KAEINIA2 KPH2, 
MEriAA02 AAKEAAIMONI02 



Ae. ®€0<; rj Ti<i dv9p(t)7ra)v vfilv, &> ^evoi, €t\r}(f>e 
rrjv alriav tt}? roiv vofxcov hia6eae(o<i ; 

KA. ©eo9, S) ^€V€, de6<i, CO? 76 to hiicaiorarov 
etTreiv irapa fiev rjfMiv Zeu?, irapa he AaKeBai- 
p.ovioi<i, oOev oS' ianv, olfj-ai, (pdvai rovTov<i 
^ AiroWwva. r] fydp ; 

ME. Nat. 

Ae. yiSiv ovv Kad^ "QjX'qpov \€yei<;, m^ tov 

B MtVo) (f)oiT(t)VTO<; 7rp6<; rrjv tov TraTpof eKacnoTe 

avvovaiav hC ivaTOV erof? ical KaTo, ra? irap 

eKelvov (^rjfia<i rat? iroXeaiv vfiiv 6evT0^ rot"? 

vofiov; ; 

KA. AeycTai yap ovto) irap' rjph • koI hrj koX 
TOV dhe\<^6v ye avTOv 'PaSd/xavOvv, uKoveTe yap 
TO 6vop,a, SiKatoTUTOV yeyovevai. tovtov ovv 
625 <f)ai/jLev dv r}fiel<i ye 01 Kpf/Tef ex tgO totc 8ta- 
vefieiv Ta Trepl to.^ Slku^ 6pd(a<i tovtov tov eiraivov 
avTov €t\.-)](f>evai. 

1 Cp. Horn. Od. 19. 178 f. ~~ 



LAWS 

[or on legislation, political] 

CHARACTERS 

An Athesias STRAyoEB, Cli>'ias oy Cbetb, 
MsGiLLUS or Lacedaemox 

BOOK I 

ATH. To whom do you ascribe the authorship 
of your legal arrangements, Strangers ? To a god 
or to some man ? 

CLIN. To a god. Stranger, most rightfully to a 
god. We Cretans call Zeus our lawgiver ; while in 
Lacedaemon, where our friend here has his home, 
I believe they claim Apollo as theirs. Is not that 
so, Megillus ? 

MEG. Yes. 

ATH. Do you then, like Homer,^ say that Minos 
used to go every ninth year to hold converse with 
his father Zeus, and that he was guided by his 
divine oracles in laving down the laws for your 
cities ? 

CLIN. So our people say. And they say also 
that his brother Rhadamanthys, — no doubt you have 
heard the name, — was exceedingly just. And cer- 
tainly we Cretans would maintain that he won this 
title owing to his righteous administration of justice 
in those days. 



PLATO 

A0. K.al KoXov ye to zcXeo? vUc re Ai6<; fidXa 
TTperrov. iireiSr] 8e iv tolovtoi^ ijdeai Te6pa<f)0e 
vo/jLiKOt'i av T€ Kol oSe, TrpoahoKOi ovk av aj}hS)<i 
'>]lid<i * irepl re TroXtrela^ rd vvv koX vop^wv rrjv 
8iaTpi^r)v Xejovrd^ re Kal dKovovra<i dpa Kara 
TTjv TTopelav 7ron](raa6ai.^ irdvrw'i 6' rj ye ck 
B K.v(oaov oSo'i et? to toO Ato? dvrpov Kal lepov, 
0)9 aKOvofJLev, 'iKavrj, Kal dvdiravXai, Kara rrjv 
oSov, o)9 etKo^i, TTVLyoi"; ovro<i rd vvv iv roi<i 
vylrT)\oi<i SevSpecriv elat aKiapai, Kal rai<; rj\iKiai<; 
TrpeTTov av y)p.())v ecr] to hiava-rraveddai irvKvd ev 
avraL<i, Xoyoi^i re dW7]\ov<; 'iTapap,v9ovp,evov<i 
rrjv 68ov OLTTaaav ovrco p,erd paarcovi]^; BiaTre- 
pdvai. 

KA. K.al p,rjv ecrri ye, co ^eve, irpolovri Kvira- 
pirroiv re ev Tot9 dXaecriv tjyjrr) Kal KdWi] 
C Oavpdaia, kuI \€ip<t)ve<; ev olaiv dvairavopevoi 
8iaTpi^oip,€v dv. 

A0. ^Op6u><i XeyeL<i. 

KA. Haw pev ovv ISovre^ 8e pdWov (f)ijcro- 
fiev. aW' tcopev dyaOfj rv')(rj. 

A0. Tavr eirj. Kal poc Xeye, Kard ri rd 
^vacrind re vpiv avvrera')(ev 6 v6p,o<; Kal rd 
yvpvdcria Kal rrjv rcov OTrXooi' e^iv ; 

lCi\. Olp,at, p,ev, S) ^eve, kol iravrl pa8iov vtto- 
Xa^elr elvai rd ye rjperepa. rrjv ydp t^9 %ajpa9 
D 7rdai]<i K/9»;t7/9 cf>inTii' Spare, a)9 ovk eari, Kadd- 
irep rj tmv ®erra\a)v, TreBid^. 8i6 8r] Kal T0t9 
pev iTTTTcts' eKelvoi y^pwvrat, puaXkov, 8p6poiai 8e 
T)pei<i' r]8€ ydp dv(opa\o<i av Kal 7rpo<; rrjv rS)v 

* rifias wanting in Paris MS. 



LAWS, BOOK I 

ATH. Yes, his renown is indeed glorious and well 
befitting a son of Zeus. And, since you and our 
friend Megillus were both brought up in legal in- 
stitutions of so noble a kind, you would, I imagine, 
have no aversion to our occupying ourselves as we 
go along in discussion on the subject of government 
and laws. Certainly, as I am told, the road from 
Cnosus to the cave^ and temple of Zeus is a long 
one, and we are sure to find, in this sultry weather, 
shady resting-places among the high trees along the 
road : in them we can rest ofttimes, as befits our 
age, beguiling the time with discourse, and thus 
complete our journey in comfort. 

CLIN. True, Stranger ; and as one proceeds further 
one finds in the groves cypress-trees of wonderful 
height and beauty, and meadows too, where we may 
rest ourselves and talk. 

ATH. You say well. 

CLIN. Yes, indeed : and when we set eyes on 
them we shall say so still more emphatically. So 
let us be going, and good luck attend us ! 

ATM. Amen ! And tell me now, for what reason 
did your law ordain the common meals you have, 
and your gymnastic schools and military equip- 
ment? 

cl:n. Our Cretan customs. Stranger, are, as I 
think, such as anyone may grasp easily. As you 
may notice, Crete, as a whole, is not a level country, 
like Thessaly : consequently, whereas the Thessalians 
mostly go on horseback, we Cretans are runners, 
since this land of ours is rugged and more suitable 

^ The grotto of Dicte on Mt. Ida. 
* roi'ijaaaBcu Sch&nz : xoirifftcOai M.SS. 



PLATO 

ire^fj Bpofifov a(TKr)aiv fiaXXov crvfif^erpo^, iXa- 
(f>pa 8rj ra oirXa dvayKalov ev t& toiovto) 
K€KTf]aOat KoX firj ^dpo<i exovra delv r&v 8r} 
ro^fov Kal TO^evfiaToov rj KOvtpoTr]^ dp/xoTreiv 
8oK€i. ravT ovv Trp6<i tov iroXe/u-ov tj/jlIv aTravra 

E i^rjprvTai, koI ttuvB^ 6 vo/ModeTrj<;, u)<i 7' ifiol 
(paiveTai, 7rpo<? tovto ^Xeircov avveraTTeTo, eVet 
Kal TO, ^vaairia KivSvpevei ^vvayayelu opcov cd<; 
7rdvT€<i, OTTorav arparevcovTai, t66^ vtt avrov 
TOV Trpdyfiaro<i dvayKd^ovrai (f)v\aK7]'i avTcov 
evcKa ^vaaneiv rovjov rbv 'x^povov dvoiav 8^ 
pLOL SoKel KaTaypwvai rtov iroXkcov ci)9 ov /j.av- 
OavovTOiv on iroXefio^ del Tratrt Sid ^iov ^i/re^r;? 
eVrt 7r/309 dirdo-a^; ra? 7roXet9' el Brj TroXifiov 
ye 0VT0<i (f}v\aKr]'i evsKa hel ^vaanelv Kai Tiva<i 
dpxovra<i kuI dp)f^op,evov<; 8iaKeKoap.r}p,€vov<; etvai 
626 <pv\aKa<} avTcov, tovto Kal iv elprjvr] SpacTeov. 
fjv yap KaXovcriv oi irXelaTOL twv dvdput-rrwv 
elprjvrjv, TOUT eivai p^ovov 6vo/j,a, tS> S cpyw 
Trdaai^ 7rpo<i Tracra? Ta^ TroXef? del iroXepbOv 
aKTjpvKTOv KaTa (pvaiv etvac. Kal a^eSov dvev- 
prjaei^ ovrco aKOTroiv tov K.pr]T(ov vop-odeTrjv, (b? 
6i9 TOV iToXep.ov diravTa Srjpioaia xal I8ia to, 
v6ficp,a -qpHv dTTO^XeTTCov avveTa^aTo, Kal KaTa 
TavTa ovTco (f)vXdTTeiv irapeScoKe tov<; v6p,ov<t, 

B CO? Tcoy dXXfov ouSei'09 ovBev 0(fi€Xo<; 6v, ovt€ 
KTrjpbaTwv ovT i7nTr)8evp.dT(i)V, dv p,rj tm TroXe/Mm 
dpa KpaTTJ Tf9" irdvTa Se Ta tmv viKMfievmv 
dyaOd tmv vikcovtcov yiyveadai. 

A0. KaXw? ye, co ^eve, (f)alvei jj,ot yeyvfivdaOai 



I 



LAWS, BOOK I 

for the practice of foot-running. Under these con- 
ditions we are obliged to liave light armour for 
running and to avoid heavy equipment ; so bows 
and arrows are adopted as suitable because of their 
lightness. Thus all these customs of ours are 
adapted for war, and, in my opinion, this was the 
object which the lawgiver had in view when he 
ordained them all. Probably this was his reason 
also for instituting common meals : he saw how 
soldiers, all the time they are on campaign, are 
obliged by force of circumstances to mess in common, 
for the sake of their own security. And herein, as 
1 think, he condemned the stupidity of the mass 
of men in failing to perceive that all are involved 
ceaselessly in a lifelong war against all States. If, 
then, these practices are necessary in war, — namely, 
messing in common for safety's sake, and the appoint- 
ment of relays of officers and privates to act as 
guards, — they must be carried out equally in time 
of peace. For (as he would say) "peace," as the 
term is commonly employed, is nothing more than 
a name, the truth being that every State is, by a 
law of nature, engaged perpetually in an informal 
war with every other State. And if you look at the 
matter from this point of view you will find it 
practically true that our Cretan lawgiver ordained 
all our legal usages, both pubUc and private, with 
an eye to war, and that he therefore charged us 
with the task of guarding our laws safely, in the 
conviction that without victory in war nothing else, 
whether possession or institution, is of the least 
value, but all the goods of the vanquished fall into 
the hands of the victors. 

ATH. Your training. Stranger, has certainly, as it 



PLATO 

irpo'i TO Bceidevai ra KprjToyu po/jiifia. roSe Be 
fxoL (f)pd^€ €Ti aa^earepov ov yap opov eOov 
C Tr}<; €v 7ro\ir€vop,evi]^ TroXem?, SoKei<; fioi \iyeiv 
ovTO) KeKoa/jiy]/jLevr]v ocKeiv Setv ware rroXepw vlkclv 
ra? aXXa<i 7ro\ef9. »; yap ; 

KA. Tldvv /J.6V ovv olfiai he koI rwhe ovto) 
^vvSoKelv. 

ME. n&>9 yap av aXXtu? cLTTOKpivano, co Oele, 
A.aKehaip,oviwv ye oaricrovv ; 

Ae. Uorep ovv Brj iroXeai fiev Trpo? 7ro\€i<; 
opOov Tovr i(TTL, Koifir) Be irpo'i Kdofirjv erepov ; 

KA. OvBa/x(o<;. 

A0. 'AWa ravTov ; 

KA. Nat. 

AG. TC Be ; 7r/309 oiKiav oiKLa tS)V iv rfj 
K(o^T}, Kal Trpof; avBpa dvBpX ev\ irpo^ eva, 
ravrov en ; 

KA. IlUVTOV. 

D Ae. AvT(p Be tt/oo? avrov iroTepov eo? TroXe/it'o) 
77/009 TToXifiiov Btavoi]T€ov, Tj TTOi'i 6X1 Xcyofiev ; 

KA. 'n ^eve ^AOrjvale — ov yap ae ^ Attikqv 
edekotp^ av tr-poaayopeveiv. BoKeL<i yap /xot, Tij<i 
6eov eTTOivv p,ia<i d^io<i elvat, fiaXkov eTrovofid^e- 
adai' rov yap Xoyov eV dp^T)v opdo}<; dv- 
ayaytav aacpearepov eTTocijaa^, ware pdov dvevprj- 
a€i<; on vvv Br] v<p' rj/xciyv op6(a<i epprjOrj to 
TToXe/itof? elvai 7rdvra<i rrdat, Brjpoaia re Kal IBia 
<Ka\>^ e/cdarov<; avrov<; a(f)laiv avrol'i. 

E A0. rico? eiprjKa^i, &> davfxdaie ; 

KA. KdvravOa, co ^eve, ro viKav avrov avrov 

^ < Ka\> added by Ast, Schan& 



LAWS, BOOK I 

seems to me, given you an excellent understanding 
of the legal practices of Crete. But tell me this 
more clearly still : by the definition you have given of 
the well-constituted State you appear to me to imply 
that it ought to be organised in such a way as to 
be victorious in war over all other States. Is that so ? 

CLIN. Certainly it is; and I think that our friend 
here shares my opinion. 

MEG. No Lacedaemonian, my good sir, could 
possibly say otherwise. 

ATH. If this, then, is the right attitude for a 
Slate to adopt towards a State, is the right attitude 
for village towards village different? 

CLIN, By no means. 

ATH. It is the same, you say ? 

CLIN. Yes. 

ATH. Well then, is the same attitude right also 
for one house in tlie village towards another, and 
for each man towards every other } 

CI. IN. It is. 

ATH. And must each individual man regard him- 
self as his own enemy .'' Or what do we say when 
we come to this point ? 

CLIN. O Stranger of Athens, — for I should be 
loth to call you a man of Attica, since methinks 
you deserve rather to be named after the goddess 
Athena, seeing that you have made the argument 
more clear by taking it back again to its starting- 
point ; whereby you will the more easily discover the 
justice of our recent statement that, in the mass, all 
men are both publicly and privately the enemies of 
all, and individually also each man is his own enemy. 

ATH. What is your meaning, my admirable sir? 

CLIN. It is just in this war, my friend, thai the 



PLATO 

Traamv vlk&v irpanr} re KaX upia-Trj, to 8e rjTTaadai 
avTov v<f>' eavToO ttuvtcov aia-x^tarov re afxa Kal 
KaKiarov. ravra yap to? iroXi/xov ev eKaaToi^ 
r]fju(i)v 6Vto9 7rpo9 r)ixa<i avrov<i arjfiaivec. 

A0. ilaXiv roLvvv top \6yov dvaarpeylrcofiev. 

eTreiBij yap eU eKucTTOf rjpLwv 6 fxev Kpelrrasv 

627 avTov, o Be rjTTbyv eo-xt, irorepa (f)(b/LL€v ol/CLav 

re Kui Kco/nrjv kui ttoXiv e)(^eiv ravrov rovro iv 

KA. To KpeuTTco T€ uvTm elvat X€y€i<i rivd, rnv 
^t If 

O TJTTO} ; 

A0. Nat. 

KA. Kat TOUTO opd(o<i Tjpov irdvv yap eari 
Kal a(f>6opa ro toioutov, ovx ^f o"''« ^v Tal<; 
TToXeaiv ev oTroarai'i /xev yap oi d/iieLVov€<; vikokti 
TO TrXrjdo^ Kal Tov<; ;^et/9oi/9, 6pda)<i dv avrrj 
KpeiTTWv T€ avTrjf; Xeyotd^ r] ttoXi^ irraivoiTo re 
dv SiKaioTUTa ttj toiuvtij vIktj- Tovvavriov he, 
oTTOv TdvavTia. 

B A0. To (lev Tolvvv et ttot ecrrt ttov to ')(elpov 
KpecTTOV Tov dfieivovo^ edawfiev fiaKpoTepov yap 
Xoyov TO Se inrb crov Xeyo/xevov fxavOdvco vvv, <W9 
TTore iroXtTai ^vyyevei^ Kal r^? avTrj<i TroXeo)? 
yeyovoTe^ dBiKOL Kal ttoXXoI ^vveXd6vTe<i SiKaiov^ 
eXaTTOVi ovTa<; ^cdcrovTai 8ovXovp,evot, Kal oTav 
fxev KpaTrjcrcocriv, tJttcov rj 7r6Xi<; auT^? opdS)^ 
avTTj XeyoLT dv d/xa kuI kukt], ottov 8' dv 
rjTTMVTai, KpGLTT(ov Te Kal dyadt]. 

C KA. Kai fxdXa aTOTrov, & ^eve, to vvv X€yo- 
fievov ofio}<i 8' 6/j,oXoyeiv ovtco<; dvayxaioTarov. 

» Cp. Jiep. 430 K flf. : Proverbs xvi. 32. 
lO 



LAWS, BOOK I 

victory over self is of all victories the first and best 
while self-defeat is of all defeats at once the worst 
and the most shameful. For these phrases signify 
that a war against self exists within each of us.^ 

ATH. Now let us take the argument back in the 
reverse direction. Seeing that individually each of 
us is partly superior to himself and partly inferior, 
are we to affirm that the same condition of things 
exists in house and village and State, or are we to 
deny it ? 

CLIN. Do you mean the condition of being partly 
self-superior and partly self-inferior ? 

ATH. Yes. 

CLIN. That, too, is a proper question ; for such a 
condition does most certainly exist, and in States 
above all. Every State in which the better class 
is victorious over the populace and the lower classes 
would rightly be termed " self-superior," and would 
be praised most justly for a victory of this kind ; 
and conversely, when the reverse is the case. 

ATH. Well then, leaving aside the question as to 
whether the worse element is ever superior to the 
better (a question which would demand a more 
lengthy discussion), what you assert, as I now per- 
ceive, is this, — that sometimes citizens of one stock 
and of one State who are unjust and numerous may 
combine together and try to enslave by force those 
who are just but fewer in number, and wherever 
they prevail such a State would rightly be termed 
"self-inferior" and bad, but "self-superior" and 
good wherever they are worsted. 

CLIN. This statement is indeed most extraordi- 
nary. Stranger ; none the less we cannot possibly 
reject it. 

II 



PLATO 

A0. E^e Brj' KOI To5e rrdXiv i-rriaKeyfrcofieOa. 
TToWol dSeXcjioC TTOu yevoivT av ev6<; avhp6<i re 
Kol fiid(; vlei'i, /cat Stj kuI dav/xaTTov ov8ev roi/^ 
TrXetou? /xev dSiKov<; avTOiv yi'yveadai,, tov<; he 
i\drTov<i SiKaLOv<;. 
KA. Ov yap ovv. 

A0. Kat ovK dp ecT} ye Trpeirov ifMol re Ka\ 
v/j-lv TOVTO 07)pev€iv, ore vikwvtcov /.up rdip iroprj- 
pS)p Tj re oiKLa Kal 7) ^vyyepeia avrt] ndcra rjTTWP 
D avTT]^ Xiyoir dp, Kpeirrcop 8e ijrrco/jLepcop' ov yap 
€V(TXVf^O(TVPr]<i re Kal da-)(^rjfioauv7j<i prjfidrwv epexa 
rd pvp (TKoirovpLeda irpo'i rop twv iroWoiP Xoyop, 
dXX" opdoTrjTo^ re Kal d/j,apTLa<; irept poficop, ^ti<; 
TTore iari (f)vaei. 

KA. ^AXtjdearara, oy ^epe, \eyei<i. 
ME. KaXeo? fiep ovp, W9 ye i/xol ^upSokcip to ye 
roaovrop rd pvp. 

A0. "l?)o)fji,ep 8t) Kal To8e* rovroi<i roc<; dpri 
Xeyo/u,epoi^ dS€\(f)oi<i ykpoiT dp irov Tf? SiKaartj^; ; 
KA. Udpv ye. 

A0. TloTepo? OVP dfxeipwp ; oari^i tou? fiep 
E WTToXeaetep avrcop dcroi KaKoi, TOv<i Se ^eXrlovq 
dpxeiP avTom avrcop Trpoard^ecep, rj o8e 09 dv 
rov'i (xep %p770-Toy9 dpx^i^v, rov'i ^(eipov^ S' idaa^ 
l^fjp dp')(^eadaL CKopra^ iroirjaeie ; rpirop 8e irov 
hiKa<Trr]P rrpo^ dpeir/p eiTTCofxep, ec ri<; eXr) rotovro^, 
628 6arTi<i irapaXa^dtp ^vyyepuap fiiap Bia(pepofieprip 
pyjTe aTToXea-eie firjSepa, BiaXXd^af; 8e 6t9 rop 
eTTiXoiTTOP ')(p6pop pop,ov<; avTol<i del^ Trpof aXXij- 
Xov<i rrapa(f>vXdTr€ip Svpairo ware elpui (f>iXov<:. 



12 



LAWS, BOOK I 

ATH. Stay a moment : here too is a case we must 
further consider. Suppose there were a number of 
brothers, all sons of the same parents, it would not 
be at all surprising if most of them were unjust and 
but few just. 

CLIN. It would not. 

ATH. And, moreover, it would ill beseem you and 
me to go a-chasing after this form of expression, that 
if the bad ones conquered the whole of this family 
and house should be called " self-inferior," but " self- 
superior" if they were defeated; for our present 
reference to the usage of ordinary speech is not 
concerned with the propriety or impropriety ot 
verbal phrases but with the essential riirhtness or 
wrongness of laws. 

CLIN. Very true. Stranger. 

MEG. And finely spoken, too, up to this point, as 
I agree. 

ATH. Let us also look at this point : the brothers 
we have just described would have, I suppose, a 
judge? 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH. Which of the two would be the better — a 
judge who destroyed all the wicked among them 
and charged the good to govern themselves, or one 
who made the good members govern and, while 
allowing the bad to live, made them submit willingly 
to be governed? And there is a third judge \ve 
must mention (third and best in point of merit), — 
if indeed such a judge can be found, — who in dealing 
with a single divided family will destroy none of 
them but reconcile them and succeed, by enacting 
laws for them, in securing amongst them thence- 
forward permanent friendliness. 

VOL L B 



PLATO 

KA. Ma/cp&i dfielvcov ylyvoir av 6 tolovto^ 
8iKacrTi]<; re koX vofxoOeTrj^. 

A0. Kal fiTjv TovvavTLOv ye r) irpo<i iroXe/xop av 
BXeTTcov avTol'i toi/? i>ofiou<; hiavofiodeTol. 

KA. ToOto fiev a\rj9e<i. 

A0. Tt 5' rr/;/ TToXiv ^vvap/iorrcop ; irpof 
TToXefjbov avrrjf; av rov e^wdev ^Xeiroiv rov ^iov 
B Koap^ot fidXXov, r) irpo^i 7r6Xe/j,ov rov ev avrfj 
yiyvofxevov eKciarore, fj Sr) /caXelrai ardent ; ov 
fidXtara fiev aTra? av ^ovXoiro /j,rjr6 yeveaOai 
wore ev eavrov TrSXei yevo/xevov re (w? rd'X^iara 
uTraXXdrrecrOai. 

KA. AfjXov on 77/009 rovrov. 

A0. Uorepa 8' drroXoixevodv av rcov erepoov 
elprjvr^v rrj^ ardaewf yeveaOai, viKTjadvrcov Be 
TTorepcov, Se^air dv Ti<? pdXXov rj <f)iXia<; re Kal 
eip}]vr}<; viro hiaXXayoiv yevo/jLevr]<i, <Kal> ^ ovrw 
C TOt? e^coOev TroXe/xLot^ Trpoae)(eiv dvdyKrjv elvai rov 
vovv ; 

KA. OyTft) TTa? av WeXot, irporepov rj \eiva>^ 
irepl ri]v aurov ylyveaOai iroXw. 

A0. Ovfcovv Kal vo/jio$errj<; cocrayrtw? ; 

KA. Tt fit]v ; 

A0. 'A/o' ovv 01) rov dplarov eveKa irdvra av 
rd vopLipia riOeitj Tra? ; 

KA. lift)? h"" ov ; 

A0. To ye /j,7)v dpiarov ovre 6 TroXe/xo^ ol'ne rj 
crrd(Ti<;, direvKrov he ro her]dr}vai rovrcov, elprjvr] 
Be 7r/509 dXX7]Xov^ d/xa Kal (piXocfypoavvrj. Kal 8^ 

^ </foi> I insert (Schanz brackets (lpi]vrtv . . . 7«»'«(rda» and 
aviyKifv flvai). 

14 



LAWS, BOOK 1 

CLIN. A judge and lawgiver of that kind would 
be by far the best. 

ATH. But mark this : his aim, in the laws he 
enacted for them, would be the opposite of war. 

CLIN. That is true. 

ATH. And what of him who brings the State into 
harmony ? In ordering its life would he have regard 
to external warfare rather than to the internal war, 
whenever it occurs, which goes by the name of 
"civil" strife? For this is a war as to which it 
would be the desire of every man that, if possible, 
it should never occur in his own State, and that, if 
it did occur, it should come to as speedy an end as 
possible. 

CLIN. Evidently he would have regard to civil 
war. 

ATH. And would anyone prefer that the citizens 
should be obliged to devote their attention to ex- 
ternal enemies after internal concord had been 
secured by the destruction of one section and the 
victory of their opponents rather than after the 
establishment of friendship and peace by terms of 
conciliation } 

CLIN. Everyone would prefer the latter alternative 
for his own State rather than the former. 

ATH. And would not the lawgiver do the same .'' 

CLIN. Of course. 

ATH. Would not every lawgiver in all his legislation 
aim at the highest good f 

CLIN. Assuredly. 

ATH. The highest good, however, is neither war 
nor civil strife — which things we should pray rather 
to be saved from — but peace one with another and 
friendly feeling. Moreover, it would seem that the 

15 



PLATO 

D Kai TO viKav, d)^ €OLK€v, avT7]V avTTjV ttoXlv OVK rjV 
tG)V apKTTOiV aWa ra)v dvayKaicov Ofioiov q)<; el 
Kafxvov aMfxa larpLKY)^ Ka6dpaeQi<i rv^ov i^yoiro rt? 
apiara Trpdrreiv rore, Ta> 8e firjBk to irapdirav 
8er]6evTi adifiaTC /i^?Se 'jrpo(Tej(pt tov vovv, axrav- 
T&)9 he Kol 77^09 TToXeo)? evSaifiovlav rj kuI ISicotov 
hiavoovp,evo<i ovro) rt? ovt dv irore TToXiriKO'i 
<y€voiTo 6p6(o^, irpo^ rd e^adev TrdXefxiKa diro- 
^XeTTcov jjLovov Kol TTpMTOv, OUT dv VO/Mo6eT'r}<i 
dKpi^7]<i, el purj x^P''^ elpijvyjt rd -rroXejiiov vojxo- 

E Oeroir] fidXXov rj twv iroXefiiKOiv evexa rd r*}? 
elpi]V7j<;. 

KA. ^aiverai fiev rrrco^ 6 Xoyo^ ovto<;, w ^eve, 
6pO(i)<i elprjaOaf daufid^co ye /j,r)v el rd re trap 
Tjfuv vojJLifia KOI en rd irepl AuKeSalfiova p,r) 
irdcrav rrjv crirovhrjv rovrcov evexa TreTToirjrac. 
A0. Td^ dv 'laco(;' Set 8' ovSev (TKXr]pci)<; ^fid<} 
629 avrol^ Bia/judxeadai rd vvv, dXlC r]pep.a dvepcordv, 
ft)? fidXcara irepl ravra rj/jLcov re kuI eKeivwv 
ajrovSa^ovrcov. Kai p,oi rat Xoyw ^vvaKoXov- 
Oijarare. Trpoa-rrjaco/LLeda yovv Tvpraiov, rov 
<f>vaei ixev ^Adrjvatov, rwuBe Se TroXirijv yevo/xevov, 
09 Bt) fidXiara dvdpd)Traiv irepX ravra iarrovSaKev, 
elirdtv on 

ovr dv fivqaaifji'qv ovr iv Xoycp dvSpa ndeL/xrjv 

B OVT ei Tf9 7rXov<ncoTaTO<; dvOpcoTrcov eirj, <f)T)aiv, 
ovr €i TToXXd dyaOd KeKTr)fievo<;, eliroiv a^^hov 
airavra, 09 fMrj ire pi rov rroXepLOV dpiaro^ yiyvoir^ 
aei. ravra ydp d/cijKod'i irou Kai av ra Troirj/jiara' 
oSe /j,€v ydp, olfiai, 8iaKopr]<i avrcov earl, 

z6 



LAWS, BOOK 1 

victory we mentioned of a State over itself is not 
one of the best thin^rs but one of those which are 
necessary. For imagine a man supposing that a 
human body was best off when it was sick and 
purged with physic, while never giving a thought 
to the case of the body that needs no physic at 
all I Similarly, with regard to the well-being of a 
State or an individual, that man will never make 
a genuine statesman who pays attention primarily 
and solely to the needs of foreign warfare, nor will 
he make a finished lawgiver unless he designs his 
war legislation for peace rather than his peace 
legislation for war. 

CLIN. This statement. Stranger, is apparently 
true ; vet, unless I am much mistaken, our legal 
usages in Crete, and in Lacedaemon too, are wholly 
directed towards war. 

ATH. Very possibly ; but we must not now attack 
them violentlv, but mildly interrogate them, since 
both we and your legislators are earnestly interested 
in these matters. Pray follow the argument closely. 
Let us take the opinion of Tyrtaeus (an Athenian 
by birth and afterwards a citizen of Lacedaemon), 
who, above all men, was keenly interested in our 
subject. This is what he says:' "Though a man 
were the richest of men, though a man possessed 
goods in plenty (and he specifies nearly every good 
there is), if he failed to prove himself at all times 
most valiant in war, no mention should I make of 
him, nor take account of him at all." No doubt 
you also have heard these poems ; while our friend 
Megillus is, 1 imagine, surfeited with them. 

^ Tyrtaeus, xii. (Bergk). Tyrtaeus wrote war-songs at 
Sparta about 680 B.O. 

»7 



PLATO 

MF. Haw fiev ovv. 

KA. Kai ^-qv Kal irap ■fi/xd'i iXijXvde KOfiiadevra 
€K AaKeBaL/jovo<i. 

A0. "lOt vvv^ uvepoo/jitOa Koivfj rovrovl tov 

C TTOirjTTJV OVTOXTL TTft)?, '12 TvpTai€, TTOllJTa OeiOTaTG' 

SoK€i<: yap Sy (TO(f)o^ rjfuv eivai xal akad6<i, on 
Toi)? fiev ev Tu> iroXe/xw 8La(f)6poPTa<; 8ia(f)€p6pTa><i 
iyKeKcofiiaKa';' rjhr) ovv Tvy')(avoixev iyco re Kal 
oBe Kal KXeiviaf 6 K.v(oaio<i ovrocrl ^vp.(p€p6/x€Vo[ 
croi irepl tovtov a(f)68pa, &)? SoKovfiev el Se irepl 
TOiv avTcov Xeyofieu avZp&v rj jjLrj, ^ovXop^eda 
(Ta(f)(t)<: elhevat. Xeye ovv ripulv, apa elBrj 8vo troXe- 
fiov, Kadairep 7)fiei<;, rjytl Kai av aacpM'i ; rj rro)^ ; 
Tlpo^ ravra, olfiac, kcLv ttoXv (pavXoTcpo^i eliroi 

D 'Vvpralov Tt9 raXri6e<i, on 8vo, to /xev o KaXovfiev 
airavre^ ardaLv, 09 hi] iravrmv TroXefjLTrv ;j^aXe- 
TTcoTaro?, &)9 €(pa/ji€v r)/j.€t<} vvv 8iy ro 8' aXXo 
TToXe/jLOV 6r](Top.€v, ol/xai, yevo^ airavTe^, w Trpo? 
Tov<; CKTO^ T€ Kttl dXXo(f>vXov<; XP^f^^^ Sta(f)e- 
popevoi, TToXi) Trpaorepov eKeivov. 
KA. TIo)? yap ov ; 

A®, ^epe Bj), 7roTepov<i Kal 7r/)09 irorepov 
€7TaLva)v Tolv TToXepxiLv ^ ovTOiS vrrepeTT-^veaas, tovs 
8 eijte^as t<x)v dvSpcbv ; eoi/ca? p-^v yap -npo^ tov^ 

E e«T09" etpr]Ka<; yovv coBe ev toi<; 7roi7]p,acnv, a)<i 
ouBap,MS TOV'i TOCovTOVf dvexopevo^;, Ot p,r) toX- 
fiijaatai pev 

opav (fiovov aip-aroevra, 
Kal Brjicov opeyocvr eyyvOev iardpevoi. 

OvKOvv TO, fierd ravra €t7roip,€V av ■^p.ei^ on Xv 
^ vvv Schanz : vvv Brj Zur. : vvv Paris MS. 
* Toiv TToXefioiv, C. Post : rov TToXefiov, MSS., edd. 

18 



LAWS, BOOK I 

MEG. I certainly am. 

CLIN. And I can assure you they have reached 
Crete also, shipped over frorti Lacedaemon. 

ATH. Come now, let us jointly interrogate this 
poet somehow on this wise : " O Tyrtaeus, most 
inspired of poets (for assuredly you seem to us both 
wise and good in that you have eulogised excellently 
those who excel in war), concerning this matter we 
three — Megillus, Clinias of Cnosus and myself — are 
already in entire accord with you, as we suppose ; 
but we wish to be assured that both we and you are 
alluding to the same persons. Tell us then : do you 
clearly recognise, as we do, two distinct kinds of 
war ? " In reply to this I suppose that even a much 
less able man than Tyrtaeus would state the truth, 
that there are two kinds, the one being that which 
we all call " civil," which is of all wars the most 
bitter, as we said just now, while the other kind, as 
I suppose we shall all agree, is that which we engage 
in when we quarrel with foreigners and aliens — a 
kind much milder than the former. 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH. " Come, then, which kind of warriors, fight- 
ing in which kind of war, did you praise so highly, 
while blaming others? Warriors, apparently, who 
fight in war abroad. At any rate, in your poems 
you have said that you cannot abide men who dare 
not 

* face the gory fray and smite the foe in close 
combat.' " 

Then we should proceed to say, "It appears, O 
' rhf Baiter, Schanz : robs MSS. 

"9 



PLATO 

fiev iiraivel^, a>9 eoiKu;, co TvpTaie, /xdXiara rov<i 
rrrpo'i tov odvelov re koI e^coOev TroXe/xov yiyvo- 
fievov^ €7n(f>av€i^. *t^air) Tavr di> irov koL ojjlo- 
\oyoi ; 
630 KA. Tt fi-qv ; 

A0. H/iet? Be ye ayadoyv optcov tovtmv en 
<f>afiev a/jLeLvov<i etvai koX ttoXv toi)? ev tS> fxeyiaTOi 
TToXefifp yiyvo/iievov^ apicnov^ 8ia(f)av(i)'i. iroitjTrji' 
Be Kol r)p,el^ pdprvpa e)(^oiji,ev, ^eoyviv, TroXtTrjv 
TOiv ev %LKeXia Meyapewv, 09 (f)r]cri 

TTtcTTo? dvr)p ')(^pvaov re koX dpyvpov 
dvrepvcraadat 

d^io<i ev '^aXeTTTJ, Kvpj'c, BL')(^oaTaairj. 

Tovrov Bt) (f)ap,ev ev iroXepitp ■^aXeTTcorepw dpLelvova 
eKeivov Trdp^TroXv ylyveaOai, cr^f^eBov oaov dp,e'iv(av 
BiKaiocrvvJ] kuI croxppoavvi) koX (})p6vr)ai^ eh ravTOV 

B eXdovaai^ fier avBpia<; <aivT% fj,6vr]<i dvBpia'i>.^ 
inaTO<i p,ev yap koX vyirj^; ev ardcrecnv ovk dv 
TTore yevoiTO dvev ^Vfiirdai^^ dperrj^;' Bia^dvT€<{ 5' 
ev Kol p,a')(6p,evoi e6eXovTe<; dtroOvqaKeiv ev 7' o5^ 
TToXep.w (})pd^et Tvpraio^, tcov fiiaOocpopcov elaiTrd/ji,- 
TToXXot, MV 01 irXelcTTOL yiyvovT ai 6paael<i koI dSiKOi 
Koi v^piaTol Ka\ dt^poveararoL cr-y^eBov dTrdvTwv, 
€KTo<; Bi] Tivcov pdXa oXlywv. irol Brj TeXevra 
vvv rjp,lv ovTO<i 6 X6yo<;, koI rt' (f)avep6v ttotc 
TTOifjaai ^ovXr)del<i Xeyei ravra ; BrfXov otc ToBe, 
ct)9 7rai/T09 p,dXXov koX 6 rfjBe irapd Ato9 vop,oderr]^, 

C 7ra9 re ov kol crpuKpov 6^eXo<;, ovk dXXoae ^ rf 

^ 4\6ovrat Eusebius and Prod us : e\6oi(ra MSS. 

* < avrris . . . avSpias > added h}' Euseb. , I'rocl. 

' er 7' ^ : iv T(f MSS. : if f Euseb. : «V t^ iro\4fj.<f, ^ 
<ppd(fi Winckelmann. 
20 



LAWS, BOOK I 

Tyrtaeus, that you are chiefly praising those who 
achieve distinction in foreign and external warfare," 
To this, I presume, he would agree, and say " Yes " ? 

ci.iN. Of course. 

ATH. Yet, brave though these men are, we still 
maintain that they are far surpassed in bravery by 
those who are conspicuously brave in the greatest of 
wars ; and we also have a poet for witness, — Theognis 
(a citizen of Sicilian Megara), who says : ^ 

" In the day of grievous feud, O Cyrnus, the loyal 
warrior is worth his weight in silver and gold." 

Such a man, in a war much more grievous, is, we 
say, ever so much better than the other — nearly as 
much better, in fact, as the union of justice, prudence 
and wisdom with courage is better than courage by 
itself alone. For a man would never prove himself 
loval and sound in civil war if devoid of goodness in 
its entirety ; whereas in the war of which Tyrtaeus 
speaks there are \«ist numbers of mercenaries re^dy 
to die fiirhting^ "with well-planted feet apart," of 
whom the majority, with but few exceptions, prove 
themselves reckless, unjust, violent, and pre-eminently 
foolish. What, then, is the conclusion to which our 
present discourse is tending, and what point is it 
trying to make clear by these statements .'' Plainly 
it is this : both the Heaven-taught legislator of 
Crete and every legislator who is worth his salt will 
most assuredly legislate always with a single eye to 

* Theognis, v. 77-8 (Bergk). He wrote sententions poetry 
about 550 B.C. 

* Tyrt. xi. 21. 

« iWofft Heindorf : i\\o MSS. 

31 



PLATO 

7r/309 Tr)v /jieylaTijv dpcTrjv fidXicrTa ^Xeirtov del 
drjtxei, TOV<i vofiov^' eari Se, c5? (prjcri Seoyvt<;, avTij 
TTKTTOTrj^ iv Totf Beivotf, rjv Ti<; hiKaioavvr^v dv 
reXeav ovo/xdaeiev. rjv S' av TvpTaLo<i iir^vecre 
D fidXicTTa, KoKrj [xev Kol Kara Katpov KeKoafirjixevT) 
rep TroiTjrf}, Terdprr} /xevroc o/jlco^ dpi0fx5> re Ka\ 
Svvdfiei Tov rifiia elvat Xe'yotr dv opOoraTa. 

KA. 'n ^eve, TOV vofjLo0eTrjv tj/llcov diro^aXXofiev 
el^ Toi'9 TToppco vofiodeaitt^ ; ^ 

A©. Oj);^ i)fj,€t<i <ye, w dpicrTe, dXX^ rjfid^ 
avTou<s, orav oldo/neOa irdvra rd r ev AuKeSalfiovi 
Kal rd TjjSe vrpo? tou TroXefxov fidXicna ^XerrovTa^ 
AvKovpyov T€ /cat Mtvo) rideaOai rd vopnixa. 

KA. To 8e 7ra>9 XP^^v i^ixd<i Xeyeiv ; 

A0. "ilcnrep to re dXrj(-€<i, olfiai, Kal ro Blkuiov 
E VTrep ye Oeiov dvSpo<; ^ SiaXeyofievovq Xiyeiv, ov^ 
ct)9 7rpo9 dperPj^ ti fiopiov, kol ravra to (pavXoTU- 
Tov, iTidr] /SXeiraiv, dXXd tt/jo? irdaav dpen'jv, kuI 
KUT etSr) ^r]T€tv avT0v<; ^ tov9 vofiov;, ovB' drrep 
01 TOiV vvv etBr] irpoTidefievoL ^rjTOvaiv ou yap 
av €KacrTO<; ev %/Jeta yiyv^Tai, tovto ^rjTel vvv 
irapaOe/j^evo^, 6 /xev tu ire pi tmv KX-qpcov Kal 
eiTiKXripayv, o Be tt}? aluia^ irepi, dXXoi Be dXXa 
631 UTTa p-vpia ToiavTa' rjp.ei<; Be (pap^ev elvai to irepl 
vopovf ^r}Trip.a Twv ev ^tjtovvtcov, uxnrep vvv 
77/x6t9 rip^dp.e6a. Kal crov ttjv p,ev e7ri)(eipt]aiv Ttj'i 
e^iiyr)(Tea)<i irepl tov^ v6p.ov<; TravTairacnv dyap,ai' 
TO yap diT^ dpeTTj^ dpxecrOai, Xeyovra <w? eTiOr} 
TavTr}<i eveKa roi)? v6p,ov<;, hpdbv oti Be irdvTa et? 

^ vofiodealas Ritter. Apelt : vofinOeras MSS. 
2 Oeiov avSpbs Badham : Oeias MSS. 
' avToiis : avrSiv AISS. 

22 



LAWS, BOOK 1 

the highest goodness and to that alone ; and this 
(to quote Theognis) consists in " loyalty in danger," 
and one might term it "complete righteousness." 
But that goodness which Tyrtaeus specially praised, 
fair though it be and fitly glorified by the poet, 
deserves nevertheless to be placed no higher than 
fourth in order and estimation.^ 

CLIN. We are degrading our own lawgiver. 
Stranger, to a very low level ! 

ATH. Nay, my good Sir, it is ourselves we are 
degrading, in so far as we imagine that it was with a 
special view to war that Lycurgus and Minos laid 
down all the legal usages here and in Lacedaemon. 

CLIN. How, then, ought we to have stated the 
matter ? 

ATH. In the way that is, as 1 think, true and 
proper when talking of a divine hero. That is to 
say, we should state that he enacted laws with an 
eye not to some one fraction, and that the most 
paltry, of goodness, but to goodness as a whole, and 
that he devised the laws themselves according to 
classes, though not the classes which the present 
devisers propound. For everyone now brings for- 
ward and devises just the class which he needs : one 
man deals with inheritances and heiresses, another 
with cases of battery, and so on in endless variety. 
But what we assert is that the devising of laws, 
when rightly conducted, follows the procedure 
which we have now commenced. Indeed, I greatly 
admire the way you opened your exjjosition of the 
laws ; for to make a start with goodness and say that 
that was the aim of the lawgiver is the right way. 
But in your further statement that he legislated 

^ i.e. courage comes after wisdom, prudence and justice. 

23 



PLATO 

fiopiov aperri<i, koX Tavra to (T/jLiKporaTov, iirava- 
(pepoura ecprja-Oa avrov vo/jioOereiv, ovre 6p6(o<} en 
jxoi Karecpcivrji: Xeycoi' top re varepov vvv \6yov 
rovTOV irdvTa etprjKa Bcci ravra. irfj Btj ovv ae 
er av i^ovXofiijv SieXo/nevov Xeyeiv avro^ re 

B UKOveiv ; BovKei aoL (ppd^fo ; 
KA. Tldvv fiev ovv. 

A0. 'n ^^v^.^XP^^ elirelv, ol K.prjTcii)v vofioi ovk 
eltrl fidrrjv 8ia(f>ep6vrQ)<; ev irdaiv evhoKifiot rot? 
"^Wrjaiv e^ovai yap 6p6oy<; TOv<i avTOi<i ')(^pa>ixe- 
vou<; evhaifiova^ diroTekovvTei;' travTaydprddyadd 
TTopL^oucri. BiirXd 8e dyadd eari, rd fiev dv6pco- 
iriva, rd Be delw ffprr^Tai 8' e«: TOiv deiwv Odrepa- 
Koi idv fiev he')(riTai rt? rd fiei^ova, irapiararai ^ 
Kol Ta ekdrrova, el Be p,i], (neperai dp,(f>OLV' 

C ecTTi Be rd p.ev eXdrrova o)v rjyelTai pev iiyieta, 
KdWo<; B^ Bevrepov, to Be rpiTOv l(TXv<i eh re 
Bp6fj.ov Kal et? Td<i dX\.a<; 7rdcra<; Kivrjcrec^ Ta> 
aciipari, Teraprov Be Bi) ttA-oOto?, ov TV(f)\6<i, aXX" 
o^v ^XeiTcov, dvjrep dp eTTijrai. (fipovijaei. 6 Brj 
TTpoiTov av TOiv Oeiwv r)yep,ovovv earlv dyaOoav, // 
<fip6vr](Ti<;, Bevrepov Be p,erd vov croocbpwv '^vyrj^ 
e^i^' e/c Be rovrcov yu-er' dvBpia<i KpaOevrwv rpirov 

D dv etrj BiKaiocrvvr), reraprov Be dvBpia. ravra Be 
rrdvra eKeivwv ep^rrpoadev reraxrai (pvaei, Kal Brj 
Kal rw vopoOerj] raKreov ovtq}. p,6rd Be ravra 
rd<; dWa<i 7Tpoard^ei<i roi<; 7ro\irai<; et? ravra 
^\erTOV(Ta<i avroU elvai BiaKeXevcrreov, rovrwv Be 
rd pev dvOpcoTTiva et? ra Oela, rd Be 6ela elf rov 
fjyepova vovv ^vp,rravra ^Xerreiv. irepi re ydpov<i 
dXXrjXoL<i eTTLKOLvovpevovi, p,erd re ravra ev 

^ jraplffTUTat Badham, Schanz : ttJau, «toto< MSS. 
24 



LAWS, BOOK I 

wholly with reference to a fraction of goodness, and 
that the smallest fraction, j'ou seemed to me to be 
in error, and all this latter part of my discourse was 
because of that. WHiat then is the manner of ex- 
position I should have liked to have heard from you? 
Siiall I tell you ? 

ci.iN. Yes, by all means. 

ATH. " O Stranger " (thus you ought to have 
said), "it is not for nothing that the laws of the 
Cretans are held in superlatively high repute among 
all the Hellenes. For they are true laws inasmuch 
as they effect the well-being of those who use them 
by supplying all things that are good. Now goods 
are of two kinds, human and divine ; and the human 
goods are dependent on the divine, and he who 
receives the greater acquires also the less, or else he 
is bereft of both. The lesser goods are those of 
which health ranks first, beauty second ; the third 
is strength, in running and all other bodily exercises ; 
and the fourth is wealth — no blind god Plutus, but 
keen of sight, provided that he has wisdom for com- 
panion. And wisdom, in turn, has first place among 
the goods that are divine, and rational temperance 
of soul comes second ; from these two, when united 
with courage, there issues justice, as the third; and 
the fourth is courage. Now all these are by nature 
ranked before the human goods, and verily the law- 
giver also must so rank them. Next, it must be 
proclaimed to the citizens that all the other instruc- 
tions they receive have these in view ; and that, of 
these goods themselves, the human look up to the 
divine, and the divine to reason as their chief. And 
in regard to their marriage connexions, and to their 



«5 



PLATO 

Tai9 tSiv TraiScdv yevvrjaeai kuI rpotftai^, oaot re 
appeve^ koI oaai drfkeiai, vecov re ovrcov Kal enl 

E TO irpea^vTepov l6vy(ov p-expi 7'?p<w9> ripiOiVTa 
6p9oi<; eTTifieXeLadai Set Kal dri/jni^opTa, iv Tracrai? 
Tat9 TOVTWV ofiiXiai'i rd<i re \uTTa<; avTOiv Kal 
Td<; rj8ova<; Kal Td<; e7ndvp,ia<i ^vfiTrdvTcov re 
632 ipoortov Ta<; cnrov8d<; €7r€(TK€fi/uLevov Kal 7rapaTr€(f)v- 
Xa^ora ylriyeiv re 6pdo)<i Kal eiraivelv hi avrcov 
Tcov vojiodv. iv 6pyal<; re av Kal ev (po^oi^, oaai 
re Sid Bvarv^lav rapa')(al ral<i y^v)(^al^ yiyvovrai 
KoX oaai ev evrv^^iaa rwv roiovrcov d'iTO(j)vyai, 
oaa re Kara v6aov<; rj Kara 7roXefiov<i rj Treviaf r) 
rd rovroi^ ivavria yiyvop.eva rrpoa-niirrei roi<i 

■" dvdpwTToi^ rradrjfiara, iv rrdai rols roiovroi<; rrj<; 
eKdarcov ZiaOecrew^ hihaKreov Kal opiareov to re 
KaXov Kal /*>/. fierd Se ravra dvayKfj rov vofio- 
derrjv rd<i KrijaeK roiv iroXtroiv Kal rd dvaXco- 
jxara <f)vXdrrecv, ovriva av yiyvrjrai rporrov, 
Kal Ttt? 7r/)09 dXXi]Xov<i Trdai rovroi<i Koiv(ovLa<i 
Kul 8iaXvaei<; eKOva't re Kal aKOvai, KaG" ottoIov 
av eKaarov irpdrroxxt rcbv roiovrcov 7rpo<i dXXij- 
Xou9, iirKTKOTTelv ro re SiKacov Kal yu,>;, iv ol<; ecrri 
re Kal iv ol<i iXXelirei, Kal roi^ fiev evireiOecri 
ro) vo/nm ^ rt/j.d<; uTrovefMeiv, rot? 8e SvaTreidecTL 

C 6t'/ca9 raKrd<; iTTiriSevaL, p^-)(^pirrep dv 7rpo9 reXo<i 
drrdar)<; 7roXireia<; eire^eXOoiV tSr) raw reXevrrj- 
advrwv riva Bel rpoirov eKdaroi's ylyveaQai rd<i 
ra(^d<i Kal rifid^ darivaf avrol<; drrovefxeLv oel. 
KariSaw Be 6 del^; toi)9 z>0/u,ou9 diraai rovroi,<i 
^vXaKa<i i7riarr](ret, rou<i uev Sid (f>pov)](7ew<i, roOf 

I T(^ v6fi<i! Stephens : riiv vS/xwy MSS. 
26 



LAWS, BOOK I 

subsequent breeding and rearing of children, male 
and female, both during youth and in later life up to 
old age, the lawgiver must supervise the citizens, 
duly apportioning lionour and dishonour ; and in re- 
gard to all their forms of intercourse he must observe 
and watch their pains and pleasures and desires 
and all intense passions, and distribute praise and 
blame correctly by the means of the laws them- 
selves. Moreover, in the matter of anger and of 
fear, and of all the disturl)ances which befall souls 
owing to misfortune, and of all the avoidances there- 
of which occur in good-fortune, and of all the 
experiences which confront men through disease or 
war or penury or their opposites, — in regard to all 
these definite instruction must be given as to what 
is the right and what the wrong disposition in each 
case. It is necessary, in the next place, for the law- 
giver to keep a watch on the methods employed by 
che citizens in gaining and spending money, and to 
supervise the associations tliey form with one another, 
and the dissolutions thereof, whether they be volun- 
tary or under compulsion ; he must observe the 
manner in which they conduct each of these mutual 
transactions, and note where justice obtains and 
where it is lacking. To those that are obedient he 
must assign honours by law, but on the disobedient 
he must impose duly appointed penalties. Then 
finally, when he arrives at the completion of the 
whole constitution, he has to consider in what man- 
ner in each case the burial of the dead should be 
carried out, and what honours should be assigned to 
them. This being settled, the framer of the laws 
will hand over all his statutes to the charge of 
Wardens — guided some by wisdom, others by true 

27 



PLATO 

Be St' aXr}dov<i So^tj'; lovra^, oirox; Trdvra ravra 
^vvhrj(Ta<i 6 vov^ eTTOjjLeva aax^poavvrj koX Bifcaio- 
avvp aTro<f)^vr}, dWa /jltj irXointp firjSk <f)i\orifiia. 
D ovTQ)<;, Si ^evoi, eycoye rjOeXov dv ufid^^ koI en vvv 
^ovXofiai, Bie^eXdelv 7r&)9 ev toi<; tov Ato9 \eyo- 
fievoi^ v6fioi<i T049 re tov Uudlov ^AttoWcovo^, ov<; 
M/vft)? re Kal AvKovpyo<; idirrjv, eveari re Trdvra 
ravra, koI ottij rd^iv rivd €lXr)cf)6ra SLaSt^Xd ecrri 
Tu> TTcpl vofxoiv ifiTreipu) re')(vr) etre Kai ricriv edeai^ 
T0t9 Se dXXoi<; rjfilv ovBafiMf icrrl Karacpavrj. 

KA. Yl(o<i ovv, 0) ^eve, Xeyeiv j^prf rd fierd 
ravra ; 

A0. 'E^ dp^rj<; TTaXiv ep,oi,ye hoKsl ')(^pr]vat, 8i- 
E e^eXdelv, fcaOdnep rjp^dfieda, rd t?}? di'hpia<i irpSi- 
rov eTTLTqhevfiara' eireira erepov kuI av6i<; irepov 
€l8o<i ri]<; dperri<i hie^tfiev, lav ^ovXrjade' ottco^ 8" 
dv TO TTpo>rov Sie^eXOcofiev, ireipacropbeda avro 
TrapdBetyfia de/jLevoi Kal raXXa ovro) Bia/j,hdoXo- 
yovvre<; TrapafivOca ironja'aa-Oai t^? 68ov' varepov 
Be dperri^ irdar)^, d ye vvv Brj Bi/]X6o/jLev, eKelae 
^XeTTOvra aTrocfiavov/xev, dv Oeo^ iOeXrj. 
633 ME. Ka\ci)9 XeyeL<i, Kal rreipo) -npcorov Kpivetv 
TOV TOV Aibf eTraiverrjv rovBe rj/xlv. 

A0. Yleipdaopai Kal ere re Kal epavrov koivos 
ydp o \6yo<i' Xeyere ovv rd ^vaairid <f)aper Kal 
rd yvfivdaia 7rp6<i rov iroXepov e^evpPjaOai rat 
vop.odery ; 

28 



LAWS, BOOK I 

opinion — to the end that Reason, having bound al. 
into one single system, may declare them to be 
ancillary neither to wealth nor ambition, but to 
temperance and justice." In this manner. Strangers. 
I could have wished (and I wish it still) that you had 
fully explained how all these regulations are inherent 
in the reputed laws of Zeus and in those of the 
Pythian Apollo which were ordained by Minos and 
Lycurgus, and how their systematic arrangement is 
quite evident to him who, whether by art or practice, 
is an expert in law, although it is by no means 
obvious to the rest of us. 

CLIN. What then, Stranger, should be the next 
step in our argument ? 

ATH. We ought, as I think, to do as we did at 
first — start from the beginning to explain first 
the institutions wliich have to do with courage ; 
and after that we shall, if you wish, deal with a 
second and a third form of goodness. And as soon 
as we have completed our treatment of the first 
theme, we shall take that as our model and by a 
discussion of the rest on similar lines beguile the 
way ; and at the end of our treatment of goodness 
in all its forms we shall make it clear, if God will, 
that the rules we di'^cussed just now had goodness 
for their aim. 

MEG. A good suggestion ! And begin with our 
friend here, the panegyrist of Zeus — try first to put 
him to the test. 

ATH. Try I will, and to test you too and myself; 
for the argument concerns us all alike. Tell me 
then : do we assert that the common meals and the 
gymnasia were devised by the lawgiver with a view 
to war ? 

29 



PLATO 

ME. Nat. 

A9. Kai rpiTov rj Teraprov ; icron'; yap av 
OVTQ) X/Jetr; Biapi6jj,i]aa(Tdai kuI trepl riliv t^? 
aXkri<; apeTTj^ etVe /xepcov ecre arr avra KoKelv 
'^(peoop eari, hrjXovvra fxovov a \eyei. 
B ME. Tplrov Toivvv, €70)76 eiTTotfi' av Kai Aave- 
hatfiovLWV oariaovv, rr)v Orjpav evpe. 

Ae. 'VerapTov Se rj Trepbirrov el SvvaifieOa 
\ey6LV 7r€ipa}/j.€0a. 

ME. "Ert rolvvv Kal to reraprov eywye rreipw- 
fir)v av Xiyeiv to irepl rm Kaprepi](Tei<i rwv akyj]- 
S6vQ)V TToXv Trap" r]pLV yiyv6p,evov ev re Tac<i Trpo? 
aXk?]\ov<; rait %epcrt fid'X^ai'; Kal ev aprrayal^ rial 
bia ttoWmv TrXr^ySiv eKiiaTOTe ytyvo/xevaif;' ^ It* 
Be Kal /cpvTTTeia ti^ ovofid^erai Oavfiaarcio^; ttoKv- 
C iT0V0<i 7r/3o? ra? Kaprepijaei^, x^ipcovwv re dwiro- 
h'qaiai Kal daTpuxriai Kal dvev depairovTcov avroi^ 
kavTOiV BiaKOvr]<T€i<i, vvKTcop Tc 7r\aj'Q)/j.ep(ov Sia 
trdarj'; t^? ')(a)pa<i Kal fied' rifiepav. en Be kclv 
raL<; yv/jLVOTracBtai<i Beival Kaprepijaei^ Trap' rjfilv 
yiyvovrai rfj tov Trviyov^ pd)/j.7) Btapaxopevwv, 
Kal TrdpTToWa erepa, a-)(eBov ocra ovk av rrau- 
aaLTo Ti<i eKdcTTore Bte^icov. 

Ae. Eu ye, co AaKeBaifiovie ^eve, Xeyei^. rr]v 

dvBpiav Be, (f)epe, ri dcopev ; irorepov aTrXco? 

ouTG)? elvai TTp6<i (f)6^ov<i Kal \inra<; Btaixd^i^v 

D pMVOv, rj Kal Trp6<i ttoOov^ re Kal 7)Bova<i Kai Tiva<i 

Bei.vd<i dwireia^; KoXaKiKd<>, at Kal twv aefxvSiv 

* ■yi'yvon.ivais Ast, Schanz : ytyvoixfvoiv MSS. 
30 



LAWS, BOOK I 

MEG. Yes. 

ATH. And is there a third institution of the kind, 
and a fourth ? For probably one ought to employ 
this method of enumeration also in dealing with the 
subdivisions (or whatever we ought to call them) of 
the other forms of goodness, if only one makes one's 
meaning clear. 

MEG. The third thing he devised was hunting : 
so 1 and every Lacedaemonian would say. 

ATH. Let us attempt also to state what comes 
fourth, — and fifth too, if possible. 

MEG. The fourth also I may attempt to state : it 
is the training, widely prevalent amongst us, in hardy 
endurance of pain, by means both of manual contests 
and of robberies carried out every time at the risk of 
a sound drubbing ; moreover, the " Crypteia," ^ as it 
is called, affords a wonderfully severe training in 
hardihood, as the men go bare-foot in winter and 
sleep without coverlets and have no attendants, but 
wait on themselves and rove through the whole 
countryside both by night and bv day. Moreover 
in our games,- we have severe tests of endurance, 
when men unclad do battle with the violence of 
the heat, — and there are other instances so numer- 
ous that the recital of them would be well-nigh 
endless. 

ATH. Splendid, O Stranger of Lacedaemon ! But 
come now, as to courage, how shall we define it ? 
Shall we define it quite simply as battling against 
fears and pains only, or as against desires also and 
pleasures, witli their dangerous enticements and 

^ Or " Secret Service."' Young Spartans policed the 
countrj' to suppress risings among the Helots. 
- The " Naked Games," held about midsummer. 

31 



PLATO 
olofi£va>v elvai tov<; Ov/xov<i [/xaXaTTovaai] ^ 

KT]p[vOV<; TTOIOVCTIV ,' 

ME. Olfxai /ji€v ovTco, Trp6<; ravra ^u/.i-rravTa. 

Ae. Ei yovv /u,€fMvr]/.ieda tou? efnrpoaBeu X6yov<;, 
rjTTco Tiva oBe Kal ttoXlv eXeyev avrrjv aujrj<i Koi 
avhpa. T] yap, &> ^eve Kvcoaie ; 

KA. Kal TTCLvv ye. 
E A0. NOv oup TTorepa Xeyofiev top tmu Xviroiv 
rjrTco KUKov rj Kal top ro)v rjSovcov ; 

KA. ^IdXXov, e/MOiye So/cet, top toop rjoopwp' Kal 
7rai»T€? TTOV fidXXop Xeyo/xep top vtto tcop tjSopoip 

KpaTOV/JLCPOP TOUTOP TOP ilTOPeihLaTa)^ fjTTOVa 

kavTOv TrpoTepop rj top vtto t(op Xvttmp. 
o34 A0. 'O Aio9 ovp St) Kal 6 Uv6ik6<; pofio9€TT]<i 
ov Bi] TTOV %&)X^z/ Ttjp apBpiav pevop,o9eTi^KaTop, 
7r/3o? TCL upiaTepa fiopop Bvva/xeprjp apTi^alveip, 
7r/jo9 Be TO, Be^ia Kal Koix^\ra Kal dwrrevTiKa 
dBupaTOvaap ; 77 7rpo<; afK^oTepa ; 

KA. Tlpo? a/uLcpoTepa eya>ye a^ico. 

A0. Xeyoip,ep tolpup ttoXip, iiTLTTjBevp.aTa -nola 
ead^ vp.cp dp.ipOTepai'i rat? iroXecrip, a yevoPTa 
TO)P i)BopoiP Kal ov (pevyopTa avTd<i, KaBdirep Ta<; 
Xv7ra<; ovk ec^evyev aXA,' ayoPTa et? p,eaa^ r)pdy- 
B Ka^e Kal eireiOe TLfi,al<i wo-re KpaTelv avTwp- ttov 
Br) TOVT eoTTL TavTOP TTepl Ta<i r)Bopd<; avPTeTay- 
fjLepop ev TOi? Pop,oc<i ; XeyecrOo}, tl tovt iaTlv o 
Kal uTrepyd^eTat vfup 6/xolo)<i 7rp6<i re dXyr)Sopa(i 
Kal 77/909 rjBopd'i tov^ avT0v<; dpBpeiov^ viKMPTdf 

^ \ji,a\dTTov(rai] omitted by best MSS. 
32 



LAWS, BOOK I 

riatteries, which melt men's hearts like wax — even 
men most reverenced in their own conceit. 

MEG. The latter definition is, I think, the right 
one : courage is battling against them all. 

ATH, Earlier in our discourse (if 1 am not mistaken) 
Clinias here used the expression " self-inferior "' of a 
State or an individual : did you not do so, O Stranger 
of Cnosus ? 

CLIN. Most certainly. 

ATH. At present do we apply the term "bad " to 
the man who is inferior to pains, or to him also who 
is inferior to pleasures ? 

CLIN. To the man who is inferior to pleasures 
more than to the other, in my opinion. All of us, 
indeed, when we speak of a man who is shame- 
fully self-inferior, mean one who is mastered by 
pleasures rather than one who is mastered by 
pains. 

ATH. Then surely the lawgiver of Zeus and he of 
Apollo did not enact by law a lame kind of courage, 
able only to defend itself on the left and unable to 
resist attractions and allurements on the right, but 
rather one able to resist on both sides? 

CLIN. On both sides, as I would maintain. 

ATM. Let us, then, mention once more the State 
institutions in both your countries which give men 
a taste of pleasures instead of shunning them, — ^just 
as they did not shun pains but plunged their citizens 
into the midst of them and so compelled them, or 
induced them by rewards, to master them. Where, 
pray, in your laws is the same policy adopted in 
regard to pleasures ? Let us declare what regula- 
tion of yours there is which causes the same men 
to be courageous toward pains and pleasures alike, 

33 



PLATO 

re a Bei viKav kuI ov8a/jLO)<; t^ttou? TroXe/xicov rSyv 
iiyyvrara eavTMV koX ')(a\€'iTO)TdTwv. 

ME. OvTfo fiev roivvv, cu Peve, Kadurrep ttoos 

Ta? aA.yr]Oova<i €t)(^ou vofiovi avriTerwyfievov^ 

iroWovi eiirelv, ovk av icrco<; evTropoirju Kara 

fieydXa fiepr} Kal hiac^avi] Xeyooi' Trepl roiv rjSovMV 

C Kara Se crfiiKpa ia(o<; eviropoirjv av. 

KA. Ov jxrjv ov8' av auTo? eycoye ev rol<i Kara 
Kpi^rrjv v6fioi<; exoi/J'i ip-(f>ave<; 6p.0LM<; irotelv to 

TOIOVTOV. 

A@. 'n aptaroi ^eveov, Kal ovSev ye Oav/xaarov. 
dX)C av dpa Tt<? r)fM(ov irepX tou? e/cdcTToov oXkoi 
v6p.ov<i yjre^T) ri, ^ovXofjLevof ISelv to re dXr}de<i 
dfia Kal TO ^iXriarov, fi-q ^aXeTrw? aXXa irpdat't 
dtrohexdiiJLeOa dXXrjXatv. 
D KA. ^Opdoi<i, M ^€V€ ^Adrjvale, €tpj]Ka<;, Kal 
irecareov. 

A0. Ov yap av, w ViXeivia, TijXiKolaSe dvBpdai, 

irpeTTOl TO TOIOVTOV. 

KA. Ov yap ovv- 

A0. El [xev Toivvv opdca'i rj firj Ti<i iiriTiixa tt} 
T€ AaKfoviKfj Kal Tfj KprjTtKrj TToXiTela, [6] X6yo<; 
av cTepo? etr)' to, 8' ovv Xeyu/xeva tt/jo? tiov 
iroXXoyv t'o"&)<? eyce) fiaXXov e^oip^ av vfi(ov d/x(f>o- 
Tepoiv Xeyetv. vfilv fiev ydp, eiVe/? Kal p.eTpico<; 
KaT€(T KevaaTai to, tcov vo/acov, el<i twv KaXXiaTcov 
av etr] vofxtov fir) ^rjTelv tcov vecov /xijSeva eav iroia 
E KaXw^ avTOiv rj fxrj KaXct)<; e^^i, fiia Be (f)0)v^ Kal 
ef ei/o? (TTOfUiTO^ irdvTa^ avfi<f)a)V€tv a)? irdvTa 
KaXS)<i KciTai devTcov decov, Kal idv Tt? dXXa}<i 
XSyrj, jxrj dve-^ecdai to irapdirav uKovovTa^' 
yipcov Be el Tt? Tt ^vvvoei tcov Trap v/ilv, irpo'i 
34 



LAWS, BOOK I 

conquering where they ought to conquer and in no 
wise worsted by their nearest and most dangerous 
enemies. 

MEG. Although, Stranger, I was able to mention 
a number of laws that dealt with mastery over pains, 
in the case of pleasures 1 may not find it equally easy 
to produce important and conspicuous examples ; 
but I might perhaps furnish some minor instances. 

CLIN. Neither could I in like manner give myself 
clear examples from the Cretan laws. 

ATH. And no wonder, my most excellent friends. 
If then, in his desire to discover what is true and 
superlatively good, any one of us should find fault 
with any domestic law of his neighbours, let us take 
one another's remarks in good part and without 
resentment. 

ci.iN. You are right. Stranger : that is what we 
must do. 

ATH. Yes, for resentment would ill become men 
of our years. 

CLIN. Ill indeed. 

ATH. Whether men are right or wrong in their 
censures of the Laconian polity and the Cretan — 
that is another story ; anyhow, what is actually said 
by most men I, probably, am in a better position to 
state than either of you. For in your case (your 
laws being wisely framed) one of the best of your 
laws will be that which enjoins that none of the 
vouth shall inquire which laws are wrong and 
which right, but all shall declare in unison, with one 
mouth and one voice, that all are rightly established 
by divine enactment, and shall turn a deaf ear to 
anvone w ho says otherwise ; and further, that if any 
old man has any stricture to pass on any of your 

35 



PLATO 

ap'^ovra re koI irpo^ t)\iKLa)T)]v /j,i]Bev6<i ivavTuiv 
veov TTOieladaL rov<; tocovtov<; \6yov<;. 

KA. ^OpdoraTo. <ye, & ^eve, X€y6t<i, kuI Kaddirep 
635 p,dvrL<i dircov t^9 Tore 8i,avola<; rov Ti6evT0<; avrd 
vvv €7TieiK(o<; fioi BoK6i<; iiTTOxdadai kol cr^oZpa 
dXTjdi) Xeyetv. 

A0. OvKovv rjpblv ra vvv eptjfiLa fxev vecov, 
avrol 8' eveKU 'yrjpw'i dcpei/xed^ virb rov vofxoderov 
SiaXeyofievoi Trepi avroiv tovtmv fiovoi Trpo<i 
fiovov^ firjhev av TrXTj/M/xeXetv ; 

KA. "Ectti Tavra- 0U7a)?[et? a] ^ Kal ixrjhev ye 

dvfjs eTTLTLfiajv rols vofiois rjfjLcov' ov yap ro ye 

yvQival T4 Twv pLTj kuXmv drifjiov, dXXd taaiv i^ 

avTOv avfi^aivei ylyveadai tw firj (pdovw rd Xeyo- 

B p,eva aW' evvoia he)(op,ev(p. 

A0. KaXcG?. ov firjv €7r CTifjLWv ye epco rot? 
vofjLoi^ TTco irplv /Se/Sato)? eh Bvva/xiv hiaaKey^raadai, 
fidXXov 8e diTopoov. iifuv yap a vop.o6erii<i fiovofi 
' KXXrjvcov Kal ^ap^dpcov, mv rjp,€l<i irvvdavoixeOa, 
TMv fxeyiarwv r^hovSiv Kal TTaihiwv eTrera^ev 
direxeaOat kuI fit) yevecrOai, to 8e tmv Xvttmv Ka\ 
<^6^(iiV, oirep dpri hieXrfXv6ap,ev, i^yrjaaro ec Tt? 
e'/c nralhwv <f)€v^eiTai Bid reXov^;, oirorav eh 
dvayKaiov^ eXdrj TTovovf Kal (f)6^ov<i Kal Xvira^, 
(bev^eiadai toi'9 ev €Keivoi<; yeyv p^vaa p,evov<; Kal 
hovXevaeiv avroh. ravrovhrj tovt , otfxai, Kal tt/oo? 
ra? rjBovd<; eBei Biavoeladac rov ainov vofjLodeTrjv, 
Xeyovra avrov 7rp6<i eavrov o)? ij/xiv 6k vecov el 
direipoi Tcov p,eyicrrQ)v rjBovcov oi TroXlrai yevrj- 

^ [*ij S] bracketed by England. 
36 



LAWS, BOOK I 

laws, he must not utter such views in the presence 
of any young man, but before a magistrate or one 
of his own age. 

CLIN. A very sound observation. Stranger ; and 
just like a diviner, far away thougli you are from 
the original lawgiver, you have fairly spotted, as I 
think, his intention, and described it with perfect 
truth. 

ATH. Well, there are no young people with us 
now ; so we may be permitted by the lawgiver, old 
as we are, to discuss these matters among ourselves 
privately without oflence. 

CLIN. That is so. Do you, then, have no scruple 
in censuring our laws ; for there is nothing dis- 
creditable in being told of some flaw ; rather it is 
just this which leads to a remedy, if the criticism be 
accepted not peevishly but in a friendly spirit. 

ATH. Good I But until I have investigated vour 
laws as carefully as I can I shall not censure them 
but rather express the doubts 1 feel. You alone of 
Greeks and barbarians, so far as I can discover, 
possess a lawgiver who charged you to abstain from 
the greatest of pleasures and amusements and taste 
them not ; but concerning pains and fears, as we 
said before, he held the view that anyone who shuns 
them continuously from childhood onward, when 
confronted with unavoidable hardships and fears and 
pains, will be put to flight by the men who are 
trained in such things, and will become their slave. 
Now I presume that this same lawgiver should have 
held the same view about pleasures as well, and 
should have argued with himself that, if our citizens 
grow up from their youth unpractised in the greatest 
pleasures, the consequence must be that, when they 

37 



PLATO 

(Tovrai, [/cat] ^ afxekkryiroi fyfyvoixevoi iv ral<; 
7']8ovai<; KapTcpeiv koX firihev rcov ala')(^poyv avay- 
D Kci^eaOai Troieiv eveica ttj9 yXuKvOvfila^ T779 tt/oo? 
ra? t]8ovd<;, ravrov irelaovTai roi<; rjTrwfievoL<i ruv 
(f)6^o)i'' BovXevaoucri rpoTTOv erepov koI er ala')(iw 
'Tol<; ye hvvapevoL<; Kuprepeiv iv rat? i]8ovat<i /cal 
TOt? K€KTr}pevoi<; to, irepl ra<i T^8ovd<i, dvOpa)Troi<i 
iviore TTavrdiracn kukoI^, kuI Ttjv yjrv)(^T]P r'p pev 
ZovXr}v Tjj Se eXevOepav e^ovai, Kal ovk d^ioi^ 
a7r\ft)9 dvSpecoi Kal iXevOepioi eaovrat irpoaayo- 
peveadai. crKOTreire ovv el ri rcov vvv Xeyofievtov 
vpXv Kara, rpoirov hoKei Xeyeodai. 
E KA. AoKEi p,€v rjpiv ye ttco? Xeyopevov rov 
Xoyov, irepl he T)j\ikovtq)i' evOv<; •jreTria-reuKevai 
pahico^ p,T] vecov re y pdXXov Kai dvotjTcov. 

A©. 'AW' el TO p,€Td ravra Sie^ioip^ev oiv 
irpovdfpLeda, w KXeivia re koX AaKeSaipovie ^eve, 
— fier uvhpiav yap 8r) aco(f>po(Tvvr]<i jrepi Xeycopev, 
— /ift>v Ti ^ hia^epov ev ravTai<i rat? iroXcreiai'i 
7} 'v rat? TMV elKT] iroXirevopevoov dvevpi'](TO/j,€v, 
636 oxnrep rd irepl rov iroXep.ov vvv hrj ; 

ME. ^x^hov ov pdSiov dXX* eoiKe yap rd re 
^vcrcTiTia Kal rd yvfivda-ca Ka\&<; evprjcrdai Trp6<i 
dp.(f)orepa<;. 

A0. "EoiKe hrjra, u) ^evoi, ')(^a\eTrov elvai to 
irepl rd^ 7ro\iTeia<; dvap,(f>ia^7]T^TQ}<i opoLM<; epym 
Kal \6y(p yiyveaOai. Kivhvvevet ydp, Kaddirep 
iv TOt? a(i>p,aaiv, ov Svvarov elvai Trpoard^ai ri 
77/309 ev aa>p,a ev iircTijSev/jia, iv u> ovk av (paveir) 



^ [/cal] bracketed by W. -MoUendorff. 

^ IJ.UV Ti Bsdham : r\ MSS. (after f) I insert V). 



38 



LAWS, BOOK I 

find themselves amongst j)leasures without being 
trained in the duty of resisting them and of refusing 
to commit any disgraceful act, because of the 
natural attraction of pleasures, they will suffer the 
same fate as those who are worsted by fears : they 
will, that is to say, in another and still more shameful 
fashion be enslaved by those who are able to hold 
out amidst pleasures and those who are versed in 
the art of pleasure, — people who are sometimes 
wholly vicious : thus their condition of soul will be 
partly enslaved and partly free, and they will not 
deserve to be called, without qualification, free men 
and men of courage. Consider, then, whether you 
at all approve these remarks of mine. 

CLIN. On the face of them, we are inclined to 
approve ; but to yield quick and easy credence in 
matters of such importance would, I fear, be rash 
and thoughtless. 

ATM. Well then, O Clinias, and thou. Stranger 
of Lacedaemon, suppose we discuss the second of 
the subjects we proposed, and take temperance next 
after courage : shall we discover any point in which 
these fjolitiesare superior to those framed at random, 
as we found just now in regard to their military 
organisation ? 

MEG. Hardly an easy matter ! Yet probably the 
common meals and the gymnasia are well devised to 
foster both these virtues. 

ATH. In truth, Strangers, it seems a difficult 
thing for State institutions to be equally beyond 
criticism both in theory and in practice. Their case 
resembles that of the human body, where it seems 
impossible to prescribe any given treatment for each 
case without finding that this same prescription is 

39 



PLATO 

TaVTOV TOVTO TU /Ji€V ^XuTTTOV TU rjfjLMV (TM/XaTU, 

B TO, Se Kal (t)(j)€\ovv' eVet Kal to. yv/xvdaia ravra 
Koi TO. ^vaaiTia TroWa fiev aWa vvv to^eXet t^<? 
TToXei?, 7rpo9 he ra<; ardaei^ %aXe7ra* htfKovai, he 
^.tXrialoiv KOI ^oioiTOiv kol %ovpl(i)v iralhe'i. koI 
hrj Kcu rrdXai bv vo/jLifiov ^ BoKei tovto to eirLTrj- 
Sevfia Kal <Ta<;> ^ Kara cf)V(Tiv [Ta<;] irepi to, 
d<^pohiaia rjhovd<; ov fiovov dvOpcoTrcov aWa Kal 
drjpicov Bte(f)6apKeuai. Kal toutcov Ta<; vp,erepa^ 
TToXet? TTpcora^ dv Tt9 acTLOtTO Kal ocrai rSiv 

C dWwv paXiara aiTTovTai twv 'yvfivaaicov Kal 
eiT€ irai^ovTa etre a-TrovBd^ovra evvoeiv Bel rd 
TOiavTa, evvorjreov on rfj OriXela Kal t^ tS)V 
dppivoiv <f>v(Tei et? KOivwviav lovarj tt}? yevvrjaeci)^ 
■fj trepl ravra rjSovT] Kara (f)V(Tiv dirohehocrdai 
SoKel, dppevoiv he irpo^ dppevat /; OrjXeiwv 7rpo9 
dqXeia'i irapd (fivcriv Kal ro}V rrpcoroiv ro r6Xp,r)fMa 
elvat, hi^ aKpdreiav ->j8ov7]<;. irdvre^ he hrj K.p7)r(J!)v 
rov irepl rov Tavvp,rjh7] p,vdov Karr]yopovp,ev, to? 

D Xoyo7TOLr]advr(i)v rovrcov iTreihrj irapd A/o? avrol^ 
ol v6p,oi Treircarev/xevot, rjcrav yeyovevai, rovrov rov 
p,v9ov TrpocrreBeiKevai Kara rov Ato9, Kva eirofievoi 
ht] rut dew KapTTWvrai koi ravrrjv rrjv r}hov)']v. to 
piev ovv rov p,v9ov ')(^atpera>, vopcov he rrepi hia- 
aKOTTovpLevcdv dvdpuyirwv oXlyov irdad eartv rj 
aKei\ri<i irepi re rd<i r]hovd<; Kal rd<i Xu7ra9 ev re 
rroXea-i Kal ev lhLOL<i rjdecrr hvo yap avrai wrjyal 
fieOelvrai (fivaei peiv, mv 6 p^ev dpvr6pevo<i 69ev 
re hel Kal oirore Kal orroaov evhaipovel, Kal iroXi^ 



^ irdKat ov vSnifiov Boeckh : ira\aihv vSfxov MSS. 

' <Tas> added by Boeckh, bracketing the next [raj]. 



40 



LAWS, BOOK I 

partly beneficial and partly injurious to the body. 
So these common meals, for example, and these 
gymnasia, while they are at present beneficial to the 
States in many other respects, yet in the event of 
civil strife they prove dangerous (as is shown by the 
case of the youth of Miletus, Bocotia and Thurii);^ 
and, moreover, this institution, when of old standing, 
is thought to have corrupted the pleasures of love 
which are natural not to men only but also natural 
to beasts. For this your States are held primarily 
responsible, and along with them all others that 
especially encourage the use of gymnasia. And 
whether one makes the observation in earnest or in 
jest, one certainly should not fail to observe that 
when male unites with female for procreation the 
pleasure experienced is held to be due to nature, but 
contrary to nature when male mates with male 
or female with female, and that those first guiltv 
of such enormities were impelled by their slavery 
to pleasure. And we all accuse the Cretans of 
concocting the story about Ganymede. Because 
it was the belief that they derived their laws from 
Zeus, they added on this story about Zeus in order 
that they might be following his example in enjoying 
this pleasure as well. Now with the story itself we 
have no more concern ; but when men are investi- 
gating the subject of laws their investigation deals 
almost entirely with pleasures and pains, whether in 
States or in individuals. These are the two fountains 
which gush out by nature's impulse ; and whoever 
draws from them a due supply at the due place and 

* Plato here ascribes the revolutions which occurred in 
these places to the intensive military training of the youth. 
Tliurii was a Greek lowu in S. Italy, an oflF-shoot of Sybaris. 

4« 



PLATO 

E ofioiaxi Koi ISceoTrjf: Kal ^coov airav, 6 S' dvcTri- 
(TTijfiovax; afia Kal e«TO<» tcov Kaipoiv ravavTia 

av €K€LVq) ^WT], 

ME. Aeyerai fxev ravra, m ^eve, /caX-w? irca, ov 
fiT}v oKK a(f)a<rta y rjfxa^ Xafi^dveu ri irore y^pi] 
Xiyeiv Trpo? ravra. 6fxo><i 3' efioiye 6pO(t)<i 8oKel 
TO Td<; r)Sovd<; (})€vyeiv SiaKcXeveaOac rov ye iv 
AaKeSaLfiovi vo/xoderrjv irepl he tmv iv Kvoxtm 
G37 vopoyv oSe, av idiXrj, ^orjdijcrei. rd S' ev ^Trdprrj 
KdWiar dvOpcoTTCov Soxei fiot Keicrdai rd Trepl 
Ta9 rjhovdf;' ov yap /ndXiar dvOpcoirot Kal 
fieyiarai^ tt poairlinovaLV i]8oi'aL<; xal v^peci Kal 
dvoia irdarj, tovt i^e^aXev 6 voixo<i r)p.(ov €K ttj^ 
')((opa'i ^vfi7rd(Tr]^, Kal ovr av irr^ dypSiv tSoa 
out' €v dareaiv oaav 'S.TrapridTai^ /neXei av/xTTocria 
ovB^ oTToaa TOVTOi<i ^uv€7r6/j,€va Trdaa^ i]Sovd<i 
Kivei Kurd SvvafMiv, ouS' eariv 6aTi<; av diravriav 
KOifid^ovTC Tivi fierd /xedrj^i ovk av rrjv fMeyicrTrjv 

B hiK'qv €vdv<i imOeLrj, Kal ouS' av Aiovvaia 
nrpoc^aaiv 6)(^ovt avrov pvaaiTo,^ (oairep ev 
d/j,d^ai<; elSov irore Trap' vfiiv iya). Kal ev 
TdpavTt Se irapd toi<; ■qp.erepoL'i d7roLKOi<; irdaav 
eOeaadfirjv rrjv ttoXlv irepl ra Aiovvcria fxeOvov- 
aav Trap rjp,lv 8' ovk ear ovBev toiovtov. 

Ae. Tl AaKeSaifiovie ^eve, eTTaLverd p,ev Trdvr 
earl rd roiaina, ottov ti,v€<; eveiat Kaprepy]aei<i, 

C OTTov 8' dvelvTai, ^XaKiKcoTepa' ra^v ydp aov 

• (>iaaiTo Athenaeus, England : Kvaairo MSS. 
42 



LAWS, BOOK I 

time is blessed — be it a State or an individual or 
any kind of creature ; but whosoever does so with- 
out understanding and out of due season will fare 
contrariwise. 

MEG. What you say. Stranger, is excellent, 1 
suppose ; none the less I am at a loss to know what 
reply I should make to it. Still, in my opinion, the 
Lacedaemonian lawgiver was right in ordaining the 
avoidance of pleasures, while as to the laws of 
Cnosus — our friend Clinias, if he thinks fit, will 
defend them. The rules about pleasures at Sparta 
seem to me the best in the world. For our law 
banished entirely from the land that institution 
which gives the most occasion for men to fall into 
excessive pleasures and riotings and follies of every 
description ; neither in the country nor in the cities 
controlled by Spartiates is a drinking-club to be seen 
nor any of the practices which belong to such and 
foster to the utmost all kinds of pleasure. Indeed 
there is not a man who would not punish at once 
and most severely any drunken reveller he chanced 
to meet with, nor would even the feast of Dionysus 
serve as an excuse to save him — a revel such as I 
once upon a time witnessed ''on the waggons " ^ in 
your country ; and at our colony of Tarentum, too, 
I saw the whole city drunk at the Dionysia. But 
with us no such thing is possible. 

ATM. O Stranger of Lacedaemon, all such indul- 
gences are praiseworthy where tliere exists a strain 
of firm moral fibre, but where this is relaxed they 
are quite stupid. An Athenian in self-defence 

* At the Feast of Dion3-sus in Athens it was customary for 
revellers mounted on waggons to indulge in scurrilous 
language during the processions. 

43 



PLATO 

Xd^on av rt? rmv trap i^fiodv dfivvofievo'i, 8€iKVc<; 
T11V Twv yvvacKcbv nap vfxlv dvecriv. diraai 8rj 
To2<i ToiovToi<;, Kol iv TdpavTC kul Trap rj/juv Kol 
"trap vjjuv he, fila diroKpiaL^ uTroXveadai BoKei 
Tov firj KUKCO^ ^X^^^ dX)C 6pO(o<i' Tra? yap diroKpi- 
v6fji€vo<i ipel Oavfid^ovTi ^ivo), rr}v irap avTOi<; 
drjOeiav opSivri, M^ Oavfia^e, w ^iv6' v6[xo<i ead' 
■qpXv ovTO<i, "cro)? 8' vixiv irepl avTcov rovrtov 
D 6X6/909. r}/MV S" €0"tI vvv, b) (f}LXoi dvhpe^, ov irepl 
tS)V dvBpooTTcov rwv aXXayv 6 Xoyo<;, dXXa Trepi 
Tcov vofioderMv avrcov KaKLa<; re koI dperi]^. ert 
yap ovv eiTTco/jiev irXeioi irepl dTrdari<^ p,edi]<;' ov 
yap (TfiiKpou ecTTi to eTriT-qSevfia ovSe <f)avXov 
hiayvoivai vo/xoBeTov. Xeyco S' ouk oivou irepl 
TToaeo)^ TO TTapdvav rj fiij, p,e9ri<; he avrtj'i Trepi, 
TTorepov biairep ^KvOai XP^^'^^'' '^^'' ne/jo-at 
')(pr](Treov, /cal en Kap')(^r]h6vioi xal KeA,Tol Kal 
E "l^jjpe^ Kal &paKe<i, iroXep^tKa ^vfiiravra ovja 
ravra yevrf, rj KaOdirep vp,6W u/jL€l<i p-ev ydp, 
oirep Xeyei^, to Trapdirav aTre^^ecr^e, ^KvOai he 
Kal @paKe<; aKpdro) Travrdiraai ')(^pd)fievoi, yvvalKe<; 
T€ Kal avTOL, Kal Kara tcov IfxaTLcov KaTa'x^eop.evoL 
KaXov Kal evhaifjLOV eimr^hev p,a eTriTrjheveiv vevo- 
p.LKaai. Uepaai he acjiohpa p,€v y^poiVTai, Kal Tai? 
dXXai<; Tpv(f)at<;, a? v/x.ei'i diro^dXXeTe, ev Td^ei 
he p.dXXov tovtcov. 
638 ME. 'n XaaTe, hicoKo/xev he ye r)/j,ei<i irdvTa^ 
TOVTOV^ OTav oirXa et<> Ta<i ')(^elpa<i Xa^Mfiev. 

A0. 'n dpiare, /j-rj Xeye Tavra' iroXXal ydp hrj 
(f)vyal Kal huo^eii; uTeK/xapTOi yeyovaai tc Kai 
eaovTai, hio (fyavepov opov tovtov ovk dp ttotc 



44 



LAWS, BOOK I 

might at once retaliate by pointing to the looseness 
of the women in your country. Regarding all such 
practices, whether in Tarentum, Athens or Sparta, 
there is one answer that is held to vindicate their 
propriety. The universal answer to the stranger 
who is surprised at seeing in a State some unwonted 
practice is this : " Be not surprised, O Stranger : 
such is the custom with us : with you, perhaps, the 
custom in these matters is different." But, my dear 
Sirs, our argument now is not concerned with the 
rest of mankind but with the goodness or badness 
of the lawgivers themselves. So let us deal more 
fully with the subject of drunkenness in general ; 
for it is a practice of no slight importance, and it 
requires no mean legislator to understand it. I am 
now referring not to the drinking or non-drinking of 
wine generally, but to drunkenness pure and simple, 
and the question is — ought we to deal with it as the 
Scythians and Persians do and the Carthaginians also, 
and Celts, Iberians and Thracians, who are all warlike 
races, or as you Spartans do ; for you, as you say, 
abstain from it altogether, whereas the Scythians 
and Thracians, both men and women, take their 
wine neat and let it pour down over their clothes, 
and regard this practice of theirs as a noble and 
splendid practice ; and the Persians indulge greatly 
in these and other luxurious habits which you reject, 
albeit in a more orderly fashion than the others. 

MEG. But we, my good Sir, when we take arms 
in our hands, put all these people to rout. 

ATH. Say not so, my dear Sir ; for there ha/e 
been, in fact, in the past and there will be in the 
future many a flight and many a pursuit which are 
past explaining, so that victory or defeat in battle 



VOL. I. 



45 



PLATO 

Xeyoi^ev aX)C afxc^ia^r^rrja-ifiov TrepX koXwv 
iimrihev^droiv Kal /jlt), vlkt}i> re kol r/rrav 
Xi'yovTe^ jj.d'^ri^;. eVet ht] ^ yap ai ixei^ov; ra^ 
i\dTTou<; 7roX.ei? vikoxti fia')(^ofJLevai koI Kura- 

B SovXovuTai, 'S.vpaKoaioi p,ev AoKpov<i, ot Brj 
hoKovaiv evvofKoraroi rS)v irepl eKeivov tov tottov 
yeyovevai, Ketof? Se ^Adrjvalot' fivpla 8' dWa 
ToiavT dv €vpoi/jL€v. dWd 'irepl avrov exdaTOv 
eiT(,ri]hevp,aro<i Treipiopeda Xeyovre^ ireideiv rj/xas 
avTov<;, vLKa<; Se Kal 7]TTa<; i/CTO<; \6yov rd vvv 
dcofiev, Xiycofiev 8' o)? to fiev roiovSe e'crxt koXov, 
TO Se roLovhe ov kuXov. irpSirov 8' uKovaaTe ri 
fwv Trepl auT(t)v tovtwv ax; Set to t€ ■^^prjaTov Kal 
TO fit) aKOTreiv. 

C ME. Ow? ovv Br} Xiyei^ ; 

A0. AoKOvat fioi Travre? ol Xoya Ti Xa^6vT€<; 
iTriTrjhevfxa Kal -Trpode/xevoi. yfreyeiv avTo rj irraivelu 
evdifi prjdev ov8afXb)<i hpav KaTa TpoTrov, dXXd 
TavTov TToieiv olov el hrj Tt9 eTraivkaavTOf: Tivo<i 
Tvpov,^ ^pcofia Q)<; dyaOov, €v6v<i yfriyoi, p,r) 
hcaTTvOofievo^ avrov fi>JT€ tt)V epyaaiav /Arfje Tr]v 
7rpoa(f)opdi', ovriva Tpotrov Kal olarKTC Kal p,ed 
a)v Kal 07ro)9 €)(ovTa Kal ottw? [7rpocr(f>epeiv] ^ 
D 6)(ovcn' vvv 8t) Tavrov pot hoKovp-ev rfp^U iv rot? 
X6yoi<; TTOieiv irepl p,e6T)<; yap dK0v<TavT€<i ro- 
aovTov p,6vov ev6v<i ol p,ev ■^jreyetv avro, ol S* 
e-naiveZv, Kal p,dXa droTTcos. p,dpTvai yap Kal 
iyyvrjraLg * ;)^pdj/i.evot eTraivovpev CKarepoL, Kai 

1 inei Srj England : indSri MSS. 

* Tvpov : Tvpovs Cornarius : nvpovs MSS. 

* [Trpoo(f>ep€iv'] bracketed by Mad\ag, Schanz. 

* eyyvrjTois C. J. Post : iTraivtTais MSS., edd. 

46 



LAWS, BOOK I 

could never be called a decisive, but rather a ques- 
tionable, test of the goodness or badness of an 
institution. Larger States, for example, are 
victorious in battle over smaller States, and we find 
the Syracusans subjugating the Locrians, who are 
reputed to have been the best-governed of the 
peoples in that part of the world: and the Athenians 
the Ceians, — and we could find countless other 
instances of the same kind. So let us leave victories 
and defeats out of account for the present, and dis- 
cuss each several institution on its own merits in 
the endeavour to convince ourselves, and explain in 
what way one kind is good and another bad. And 
to begin with, listen to my account of the right 
method of inquiring into the merits and demerits 
of institutions. 

MEG. What is your account of it ? 

ATH. In my opinion all those who take up an 
institution for discussion and propose, at its first 
mention, to censure it or commend it, are proceeding 
in quite the wrong way. Their action is like that of 
a man who, when he hears somebody praising cheese 
as a good food, at once starts to disparage it, without 
having learnt either its effects or its mode of 
administration — in what form it should be ad- 
ministered and by whom and with what accompani- 
ments, and in what condition and to people in what 
condition. This, as it seems to me, is exactly what 
we are now doing in our discourse. At the first 
mention of the mere name of drunkenness, straight- 
way we fall, some of us to blaming it, others to 
praising it ; which is most absurd. Each party 
relies on the aid of witnesses, and while the one 



47 



PLATO 

01 fiev, OTC TToWoi"? 7rape;^o/ie^a, a^iovfiev ri 
Xeyeiv Kvpiov, ol he, on tou9 /xr) ^p&j/x.ei'ou? avTW 
opoifiev viKOiVTWi fj.axofievov<;' dfx,(f)icr0r}T€iTai S' 
av Kal TovO' rjfxlv. el jxev Brj Koi irepi, eKacnoiv 
ovTco Koi T(t)v dWcov vofU/jL(OP hie^Lfxev, ovk av 
E e/MOiye Kara vovv eirj. rpoirov Si aXXov ov ifiol 
(paiverat Selv ideXco Xeyeiu irepl avrov tovtov, 
T^? p,e6r)<f, ireipoofievo'i av dpa Svvayfiat rrjv irepl 
airavroov rwv tolovtcov opdrjv fiidoSov ■qfiiv BrjXovv, 
CTreihi] Kal fivpla eVi. /xvpioi<; edvrj irepX avTCOv 
ap(f)icr^7]T0vvTa vp,iv iroXecn hvelv tA Xoya 
hiap.dyoiT av. 

ME. Kat pr]v ei riva e)(ofiev opdrjv aKeyfnv tcov 
639 TOLOvrcov, ovk diroKvrjreov uKoveiv. 

A0. "ZKeyjrcopeOa Bt] tttj TrjSe- (f)ipe, et ri<i alycov 
Tpo^rjv Kal TO ^a)ov avTO, Krrjfia o)? eaTi, koXov, 
eTraivsirj, aXXo^ Be Ti? ecopaKco^ alya^ %^P''> 
V€fiofjL6va<i aiTToXov ev ipyacrifMOi^; 'X^copioiii Bpuicra^ 
KaKO, Bia-^lreyoi, Kal ttolv dpep,p,a dvapxov rj fiera 
[tmv] KaKoiv dpyovrwv IBcov ovtq) p,ep,^0LT0, rov 
Tov TOLovJOV -^oyov rjyovfxeda vyL€<i av irore ^jre^at 
Kal OTiovv ; 

ME. Kat 7r(u9 ; 
B Ae. H.p'r)crro<i he dpy^cov ecrd^ rjpXv ev ttXolol^ 
TTOTcpov eav ttjv vavTiKrjv exj} eTnaTrjp.rjv /jlovov, 
av T ovv vavria av re yu.?/ ; rj ttw? dv Xeyoifiev ; 

ME. Ou5a/iW9, dv ye iTpo<i rfj rexvp exj} Kal 
TOVTO TO •ndOo'i Xey€i<;. 

A0. Tt S' dpx<^v arparoTTehu)V ; dp' edv ttjv 
48 



LAWS, BOOK I 

party claims that its statement is convincing on the 
ground of the large number of witnesses produced, 
the other does so on the ground that those who 
abstain from wine are seen to be victorious in battle ; 
and then this point also gives rise to a dispute. Now 
it would not be at all to my taste to go through all 
the rest of the legal arrangements in this fashion ; 
and about our present subject, drunkenness, I desire 
to speak in quite another fashion (in my opinion, 
the right fashion), and I shall endeavour, if possible, 
to exhibit the correct method for dealing with all 
such subjects ; for indeed the view of them adopted 
by your two States would be assailed and contro- 
verted by thousands upon thousands of nations. 

MEG. Assuredly, if we know of a right method of 
investigating these matters, we are bound to give it a 
ready hearing. 

ATH. Let us adopt some such method as this. 
Suppose that a man were to praise the rearing of 
goats, and the goat itself as a fine thing to own, and 
suppose also that another man, who had seen goats 
grazing without a herd and doing damage on culti- 
vated land, were to run them down, and find fault 
equally with every animal he saw that was without 
a master or under a bad master, — would such a 
man's censure, about any object whatsoever, be of 
the smallest value.'' 

MEG. Certainly not. 

ATH. Do we call the man who possesses only 
nautical science, whether or not he suffers from sea- 
sickness, a good commander on a ship — or what? 

MEG. By no means good, if along with his skill he 
suffers in the way you say. 

ATH. And how about the army-commander ? Is a 

49 



PLATO 

•rroXefiiKTjv e^?; eirKTTjj/xrjv, iKav6<; dpx^tf, kuv 
heiKo'i oiv iv rol<; Betvolf; inro fxidrjii tov ^ ^o^ov 
vavria ; 

ME. Kal TTci)? ; 

Ae. *Av Se av firjT e'^77 ttjv T€\yrjv SetXo? 

ME. UavrdiraaL Tiva Trovrjpop \€'yei<;, Kal 
oiiBa/jLcof; avhpSiv ap')(ovTa, aWd tivcov acfioSpa 
yvpaiKMV. 
C A0. Tt S' eiraiveTqv rj -\|re'/cT77i/ KOiva>via<i rjariv- 
oaovv, Tf 7ri(f)VKe re ap^wv eivai fier eKeivov re 
0}(f)eXi/jL6<; eariv 6 Be /xtjd^ €a>paKa)<; eirj iror opdoy^ 
avTi]v avrfj KOivcovovaav //.er' dp^ovTos, del Be 
dpapxov rj fierd KaKOiv dpyovTwv ^vvovaav 
oiMfieOa Bi] TTOxe Tov<i roiovroix; Oecopom rcov 
ToiouTcov KOivwiuMV ')(^priaTov Tf \jre^eiv rj iiratve- 
aeaOai ; 

ME. Ilfo<? 8' dv ; p,r]Be7roTi ye iB6vTa<i firjBe 
^vyyeiofievov^ opdco^ yevofieva firjBevl t5)V toiovtcov 
D KOivcovrjfxaTwi' ; 

A0. "E^e Brj' TMv TToWcbv fcotvwvicov ^vpTTora^ 
Koi ^vfjLTToaia delfxev dv fiiav rtvd ^vvovaiav 
elvai ; 

ME. Kai a(f>68pa ye. 

A0. TavTTjv ovv ficov 6p6o)<i yLyvopAvrjv ijBrj ri<i 
irdiirore ededaaro ; Kal cr(f>&v /nev aTTOKplvaaOai 
pdBiov o)? ovBeTTOiTrore to irapdirav ou yap 
i7rixd>ptov vfilv rovTO ouBe vofiipov eytb S' evre- 
Tvxv^"- '''€ TToXXat? Kal TroWaxov, Kal irpoaeri 
irdaa^ &)? erro^ elrrelv BtrjpcoTrjKa, koI a^^^eBbv 
E oXrjv pbev ovBe/xCav 6pd(t)<; yiyvofievijp ecopuKa ov8^ 
* TOV : TOV MSS., edd. 
50 



LAWS, BOOK I 

man fit for command, provided that he has military 
science, even thougli he be a coward and sea-sick 
with a kind of tipsy terror when danger comes? 

MEG. Certainly not. 

ATH. And suppose he has no military skill, besides 
being a coward ? 

MEG. You are describing an utterly worthless 
fellow, not a commander of men at all, but of the 
most womanish of women. 

ATM. Now take the case of any social institution 
whatsoever which naturally has a commander and 
which, under its commander, is beneficial ; and 
suppose that someone, who had never seen the 
conduct of the institution under its commander, but 
seen it only when with no commander or bad 
commanders, were to commend the institution or 
censure it : do we imagine that either the praise or 
the blame of such an observer of such an institution 
is of any value ? 

MEG. Certainly not, when the man has never 
seen nor shared in an institution of the kind that 
was properly conducted. 

ATM. Now stay a moment! Shall we lay it down 
that, of the numerous kinds of social institutions, that 
of banqueters and banquetings forms one .'' 

MEG. Most certainly. 

ATH. Now has anyone ever yet beheld this 
institution rightly conducted ? Both of you can 
easily make answer — "Never yet at all," for with 
you this institution is neither customary nor legal ; 
but I have come across many modes of banqueting 
in many places, and I have also inquired into nearly 
all of them, and I have scarcely seen or heard of a 
single one that was in all points rightly conducted ; 

51 



PLATO 

aKTjKoa, fiopia 5' ct ttov a-fiiKpa kuI oXlya, ra 
TToWa oe ^vfiiravO^ o)? ecTrelv hir^fiaprrifieva. 

KA. IIco? hr) Tuvra, u) ^eve, Xeyei'i ; etVe ert 

(Ta^earepov ijfieh /xtv yap, onep etTre?, aireipia 

640 tS)v roiovTtov, oyS' iuTvy^dvoi'Te'i av !'<r&)9 €v6v<i 

ye yvolp,ev to re opOov kol p,r) ytyvofievov iv 

avroi<;. 

Ae. Et«09 \eyei<i' aW ifiov <f>pd!^ovro<; ireipa} 
pavddveiv. ro pev yap ev irdaai'^ re ^vv6Soi<i 
Kai Koivfoviai^ irpd^ecov uivrivwvovv &)? opOov 
Travra^ov e/cacxTOt? ap-)(pvra elvai, p,avOdv€i<i ; 

KA. nw9 yap ov ; 

Ae. Kal pLr]v iXeyopev vvv Stj, pa)(^opevQ)V &><? 
dvBpelov Set rov dp^ovra elvat. 

KA. 11 w? S' oij ; 

Ae. 'O prjv dvSpeio^ rcov 8ei\a>v vtto (pQ^cop 
^rrov reOopv^rjrai. 
B KA. Kal rovro ovra)^. 

Ae. Et S' ^v Tf9 pri-)(avrj pijSev ro irapdnrav 
BeSiora p.r]B€ dopvQovp,evov eiriarrjaai arparo- 
•jreSo) arpartfyov, ap ov rovr av iravrl rp6iT(p 
eirpdrropev ; 

KA. X^oSpa fiev ovv. 

Ae. NOi' he ye ov arparoTTehov irepl Xeyopev 
dp^ovro<i ev dvSpcov opiXiai^ €)(^6pa)v e^Opoi<; pera 
TToXepov, (fyiXcov 3' iv elprjvrj 7rpo<> <f)i,Xov(; koivcovt}- 
aovTcop <f)iXo(f)po(Tvvrj<;. 

KA. 'Op6m. 
C Ae. "Eart 8e ye r) roiavrr] avvovaia, eiirep 
earai p£rd p.edri^, ovk d06pv^o<;' r) ydp ; 



52 



LAWS, BOOK I 

for if any were right at all, it was only in a few 
details, and most of them were almost entirely on 
the wrong lines. 

CLIN. Wiiat do you mean by that. Stranger? 
Kxplain yourself more clearly; for since we are 
(as you observed) without any experience of such 
institutions, even if we did come across them, we 
would probably fail to see at once what was right in 
them and what wrong. 

.ATH. That is very probable. Try, however, to 
learn from my description. This you understand — 
that in all gatherings and associations for any 
purpose whatsoever it is right that each group should 
always have a commander. 

n.iN. Of course. 

ATH. Moreover, we have recently said that the 
commander of fighting men must be courageous. 

CLIN. Of course. 

.ATH. The courageous man is less perturbed by 
alarms than the coward. 

CLIN. That is true, too. 

ATH. Now if there had existed any device for 
putting an army in charge of a general who was 
absolutely impervious to fear or perturbation, should 
we not have made every effort to do so ? 

CLIN. Most certainly. 

ATH. But what we are discussing now is not the 
man who is to command an army in time of war, in 
meetings of foe with foe, but the man who is to 
command friends in friendly association with friends 
in time of peace. 

CLIN. Quite so. 

ATH. Such a gathering, if accompanied by 
drunkenness, is not free from disturbance, is it? 

S3 



PLATO 

KA. ITft)9 7tt/3 ; aXX' oo/xai ttolv rovvavriov, 

A0. OvKovv irpcoTov /J,€P Kal TOVTOL<i dp-)(Ovroi 
Sec ; 

KA. Tt fjCijv ; Q}<i ovSevi ye rrpdy/xaTi. 

Ae. rioTepov ovv aOopv^ov, el Swarov e'crj, tov 
ToiovTov apxovTa iKiropL^eadai Bel; 

KA. lleo? yap ov ; 

A&. Kal ixrjv irepi ye (Tvvov<Tta<;, co? eoixev, 

avrov (ppovi/xov elvat Sel. yLyverai, yap cf>vXa^ 

D Tr)9 re VTrap')(ovari<i (f)i,\ia<; avToi<;, Kal en TrXelo- 

vo<i e7rifie\-r]Tr]<; 67r(jo<i earai Bia ttjv t6t€ ^vvov- 

aiav. 

KA. 'AXrjdearaTa. 

A0. OvKovv vrjfi^ovTd T€ Kal <T0(f)6v dp^ovra 
fieOvoPTwv Bel Kadiardvai, Kal /xij rovvavriov ; 
fiedvovTfov yap /xeOvwv Kal veo^ dp^wv /jltj ao^6<i, 
el fiT] KaKOV direpydcratTo ti /neya, iroWfj XP^""^ 
dv dyaOfi tvxv- 

KA. ria/xTToA-X?; fiev ovv. 

A0. OvKovv el fiev yiyvofievoyv &)? Bwarov op66- 
Tara tovtcov ev ral^ TroXecri roiv ^uvovcriMv 
E fie/j,(f)0iT6 Ti<}, eTTiKaXoiv avrw to) Trpdyfiari, rd^ 
dp 6pdo)<i ifTO)? /i-e/i0otTO' el Be d^apravofievov to? 
olov re ixdXicTTa eTTiTrjBevfid Tt9 opSiv XoiBopel, 
"npwTOv fiev BrjXov o)? dyvoel tout avTo yiyvo- 
fiei'ov ovK 6p6oii<i, elO^ OTi irdv rovro) to) rpoTrcp 
<f>apelTai Trovijpov, BeanroTOv re Kal dpxovTO<; 
vij<f)0VT0^ X'^pl'i irpaTToixevov. rj ov ^vvpoelf 
641 TovO\ OTi fiedvcov Kv^epvi]Tr)<; Kal Tra? 7ravT0<i 
dpx(i>v dvaTpeirei TrdvTa etre irXola €it€ dppuiTa 
eiVe (TTpaTorceBop, eiO^ o tI ttot etrj to Kv^epv(o/j,e- 
vov vtt' avrov ; 
54 



LAWS, BOOK 1 

CLIN. Certainly not ; quite the reverse, I imagine. 

ATH. So those people also need, in the first place, 
a commander ? 

CLIN. Undoubtedly — they above all. 

ATH. Should we, if possible, provide them with a 
commander who is imperturbable ? 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH. Naturally, also, he should be wise about 
social gatherings. For he has both to preserve the 
friendliness which already exists among the company 
iiid to see that the present gathering promotes it still 
further. 

CLIN. Very true. 

ATH. Then the commander we set over drunken 
men should be sober and wise, rather than the 
opposite? For a commander of drunkards who was 
himself drunken, young, and fooHsh would be very 
lucky if he escaped doing some serious mischief. 

CLIN. Uncommonly lucky. 

ATH. Suppose, then, that a man were to find 
fault with such institutions in States where they are 
managed in the best possible way, having an objection 
to the institution in itself, he might perhaps be right 
in doing so ; but if a man abuses an institution when 
he sees it managed in the worst way possible, it is 
plain that he is ignorant, first, of the fact that it is 
badly conducted, and secondly, that every institution 
will appear similarly bad when it is carried on without 
a sober ruler and commander. For surely you per- 
ceive that a sea-captain, and every commander of 
anything, if drunk, upsets everything, whether it be 
a ship or a chariot or an army or anything else that 
is under his captaincy. 



55 



PLATO 

KA. YlavTUTracn rovro ye dXi]Oe<; etprjKai;, o) 
^€V€' tovttI tASc 8' rjfitv Xeye, tC ttot, av ylyvTjrai 
Tovro 6pOa)<; ^ to Trepl Ta<; 7r6crei<i vofii/jbov, ayadov 
av hpdaeiev r^pd^ ; olov o vvv Srj iXiyopev, el 
(TTpaTevpa 6pdr)<i rjy€povia<; Tvy)(^dvoi, vlkt] iroXe- 
pov T0t9 €iTop€voi<; dv yiyvoLTO, ov apiKpov 
dyaOov, koI raW ovtco' avpTroaCov 8e 6pdo)<i 

B TTaiSaycoyrjOei'To^ TV piiya ISicorai^ rj t^ iroXei 
yiyvoLT dv ; 

A0. Tt he ; TraiBo^ evb^ rj koX x^P^^ irai- 
BaycoyqffevTo^i Kara Tpoirov ivb<i T^ peya rfi iroXei 
^aipev dv yiyveadai ; rj tovto ovtq)^ epwri]- 
Oevre^ etiroipev dv &><? evo? pev ^pa^v ttj ttoXci 
yiyvoir dv ocf^eXo'i, ei 5' oXw; ip(oTa<; TraiZeiav 
Tbiv TraiSevOevTwv, tl peya ti]v ttoXiv ovlvrjaiv, ov 
XO'Xe'Kov eiirelv on 7raiS€v6tVT€<i pev ev yiyvoLvr 
dv dv8pe<i dyadoi, yevopievoi he toiovtoi tu t 

C dXXa rrpaTToiev kuXo)^, en Be /cdv viKcpev tou? 
7roXepA,ou<; pax6p,€voi. Traiheia pev ovv (f>ep€i koI 
viKTjv, VLKTj 8' evioTe diraihevaiav ttoXXoi yap 
v^picFTorepoi hid iroXep.wv v'tKak yevopeuoc p,vpL(ov 
dXXrov KaK&v hi v^piv ev€7rXi']a9r}(Tav, Kal irai- 
heia pev ovheircoTrore yeyove Kahpeia, vlxai he 
dvOpoiiTToa TToXXaX hr] TOiavrai yeyovaai re Kal 
eaovTai. 

KA. Ao/cet? r/plv, 0) (f>iXe, rrjv ev roif ocvoi<{ 

D KOLVTjv hiarpi^rjv &)<? el<; Traihela^; peydXrjv polpav 
Teivovaav Xejeiv, dv 6pdS)<i yiyvrjTau. 

* bpSws Schanz : opOhv MSS. 

5« 



LAWS, BOOK I 

CLIN. What you say, Stranger, is perfectly true. 
In the next place, then, tell us this :— suppose this 
institution ot drinking were rightly conducted, of 
what possible benefit would it be to us.'' Take the 
case of an army, which we mentioned just now : 
there, given a right leader, his men will win victory 
in war, which is no small benefit ; and so too with 
the other cases : but what solid advantage would 
accrue either to individuals or to a State from the 
right regulation of a wine-party ? 

ATH. Well, what great gain should we say would 
accrue to the State from the right control of one 
single child or even of one band of children ? To 
the question thus put to us we should reply that the 
State would benefit but little from one ; if, however, 
you are putting a general question as to what solid 
advantage the State gains from the education of the 
educated, then it is quite simple to reply that well- 
educated men will prove good men, and being good 
they will conquer their foes in battle, besides acting 
nobly in other ways. Thus, while education brings 
also victory, victory sometimes brings lack of educa- 
tion ; for men have often grown more insolent 
because of victory in war, and through their inso- 
lence they have become filled with countless other 
vices ; and whereas education has never yet proved 
to be " Cadmeian," ^ the victories which men win 
in war often have been, and will be, "Cadmeian." 

CLIN. You are implying, my friend, as it seems to 
us, that the convivial gathering, when rightly con- 
ducted, is an important element in education. 

^ i.e. involving more loss than gain — a proverbial ex- 
pression, possibly derived from the fate of the "Sparti" 
(sprung from the dragon's teeth sown by Cadmus, founder 
of Thebes) who slew one another : op. " Pyrrhic " victory. 

57 



PLATO 

Ae. Tt fjLtjv ; 

KA. "E^o/? av ovv TO /xera tovt^ elTreiv cos 
ecTTi TO vvv elprjfiei'ov dXi]Oe<; ; 

A0. To fjiev d\i]Oe'i, w ^eve, hiLa')(ypi^e(Tdai 
TavTa ovTca<; €-)(jeiv, iroWoiv dfi<pia0rjTovvTcov, 
deov' el S' OTTr) ifiol (^aiveTat, hel Xeyeiv, ovSei'i 
(pOovo^:, eTreiirep oipfxi^Kap^ev ye Toy<? X6yov<; irepl 
voficov KoL TToXtTeta? TroielcrOai. to, vvv. 

KA. Tout avTO Si] ireipdop-eda to ao\ hoKovv 
E TT€p\ Twv vvv dp,(f)icr^i]Tovp,€vo)v KUTafiadeiv. 

Ae. 'AXXa ^PV ttoicIv ovt(o<;, v/j,d<i re irrl to 
fiadelv Kol ifie eVl to hrjXoicraL Treipoifievov d/xco'i 
ye 7r&)9 ^vvTetvai tov \6yov. irpuTov Be fiov 
dKovaaTG to ToiovBe' Tr]v ttoXlv diravTe'i rjfiMV 
"EtXXr]V€<i vTroXa/M^dvovaiv &)? (f)cX6\oy6<i re icrTt 
Kol TToXvXoyo'i, AaKeSai/xova Be Kal K.p}]Tr)v, ttjv 
fiev ^pa^vXoyov, ttjv Be iroXvvoiav ixdXXov rj 
642 TToXvXoyiav daKovaav. ckottS} Bt) fit] Bo^av vp.lv 
Trapd(T^(i}p,ai rrepl ap.t,Kpov iroXXd Xeyeiv, p,e9r]<i 
TTepi a-pbiKpov 7rpdyp,aT0<; 7rap,p.i]Kr) Xoyov uvaKU- 
Oatp6p,evo<;. to Be 77 /cara <f)vaiv avTOv BiopOcocri^i 
ovK dv BvvaiTO dvev p,ovariKi]<; 6pB6Tr]T6<i iroTe 
cra(f)6<i ovB^ iKavov ev Tot<; X6yoi<; diroXa^elv 
p,ovaiKr) Be dvev TraiBeLa<i t?}? Trdarjii ovk dv av 
TTOTe BvvaiTO' TavTU Be Trap-iroXXoyv eVrt Xoycov. 
opaTe ovv tL iroiwp.eV el raOra p.ev edaai/xev ev 
B Tft) irapovTi, /j,€T€K^aip,ev S' et? eTepov Tiva vofxtov 
TTepi Xoyov. 

ME. 'fl ^eve ^ AOrjvale, ovk olaO' lo-at^ oti 
Tvys^dvei rjp,(ii)v rj eaTia t^9 TroXew? ovaa vp,a)v 
irpo^evo^. Xaa)<i p^ev ovv xal irdcri rot? iraiaiv, 

58 



LAWS, BOOK I 

ATH. Assuredly. 

CLIN. Could you then show us, in the next place, 
how this statennent is true ? 

ATH. The truth of my statement, which is dis- 
puted by many, it is for God to assert ; but I am 
quite ready to give, if required, my own opinion, 
now that we have, in fact, embarked on a discussion 
of laws and constitutions. 

CLIN. Well, it is precisely your opinion about the 
questions now in dispute that we are trying to learn. 

ATH. Thus, then, we must do, — you must brace 
yourself in the effort to learn the argument, and I 
to expound it as best I can. But, first of all, 1 have 
a preliminary observation to make : our city, Athens, 
is, in the general oj)inion of the Greeks, both fond 
of talk and full of talk, but Lacedaemon is scant of 
talk, while Crete is more witty ^ than wordy ; so I am 
afraid of making you think that I am a great talker 
about a small matter, if I spin out a discourse of 
prodigious length about the small matter of drunken- 
ness. But the fact is that the right ordering of this 
could never be treated adequately and clearly in our 
discourse apart from rightness in music, nor could 
music, apart from education as a whole ; and these 
require lengthy discussions. Consider, tlien, what 
we are to do : suppose we leave these matters over for 
the present,and take up some other legal topic instead. 

MEG. O Stranger of Athens, you are not, per- 
haps, aware that our family is, in fact, a "prox- 
enus " 2 of your State. It is probably true of all 

^ A polite way of alluding to the pro%'erbial mendacity of 
the Cretans (cp. Ep. Tihis i. 12 : Kprires del ;^«i;<TToi). 

* A "proxenua" was a native who acted as official 
representative of a foreign State. 

59 



PLATO 

eireiBav aKOvaaxrcu on Tit-o? elcri ttoXco)? irpo- 
^evoi, TavTij Tt? evvota e/t vecov €uOu<i ivBveTai 
eKaarov [»}yna)j^ tmv irpo^evoiv ttj TroXei],^ a)S 
Bevrepa ovarj TrarpiSt fiCTa rr}v avrov iroXiv' koX 
hr) Koi ifiol vvv ravro tovto eyyeyoveu. ukovcov yap 

C roiv iraihoov evdv<i, ei ri /u,6p-(f)oivTO t) Kal enaivoiev 
AaKeBatpovioc ^KdrjvaLovi, o)? r] ttoXl's vp,o>v, o) 
MeyiWe, €(f)acrav, r)p,a<; ov /taXco? rj KaXa)<i eppe^e, 
— raina Brj ukovcov kol /jLa^6fievo<; Trpo? avTU virep 
vpLcav ael rrpo<i rovf ttjv ttoXlv el<i yjroyov dyovTa<; 
iraaav evvoiav ea')(ov, Kai /jloi vvv rj re (fxovi] 
'irpoa^i\y]<; v/jlcov, ro re vtto ttoXXcov Xeyofievov, 
a>9 ocrot ^ AOrjvaLcov elalv ayaOol Bta(f)€p6vTCi)<; elal 
ToiovToi, BoKCL aXfjOecTTaTa Xeyeadai' pLovoi yap 

D avev avayKi(]<i, avTO(f)Vcii)<i [dela polpa, aXr]d6i)<; 
Kal ov Ti TTXacrTcb<i] ^ elcrlv ayado'i. dappoiv . Brj 
e/jLOv ye evexa Xiyoi<i av roaavra oiroaa aoi 
<f)i,\ov. 

KA. Kat fjirjv, (o ^eve, kuI tov irap ifiov Xoyov 
aKov<ja<i re koX a-noBel^apevo'^ dappSiv oiroaa 
^ovXet Xeye. rfjBe yap Icrca aKi]Koa<i tu? 'Ett*- 
fxeviBr}^ yiyovev dvrjp 6eio<;, 09 '^v r)p,lv olKelo<i, 
eXOcov Be nrpo tcov Uepai/ccov Se«a erecri irporepov 
Trap vp.d^ Kara rr)v tov deov fxavrelav Ovalat 
re idvaaro rtva^, d<; 6 6e6<i dvetXe, Kal Btj Kal 
(f)o^ov/j,evQ)v TOV UepaiKOP ^AOrjvalcov cttoXov 

E elirev oti BeKa fiev ctcov ovx rj^ovaiv, orav Be 
eXOcoaip, diraXXayrjaovTai irpd^avTe'i ovBev d)v 
rfXiri^ov iradovTe'i re rj Bpdaavre^ TrXeioy KaKd. 



* \riiJ.S>v . . . it6Xei\ bracketed by Badhani, Schanz. 

* [Oiia . . . ir\aarTwt] bracketed by Valckenaer. 



60 



i 



LAWS, BOOK I 

children that, when once they have been told that 
they are *•' proxeni " of a certain State, they con- 
ceive an affection for that State even from infancy, 
and each of them regards it as a second mother- 
land, next after his own country. That is precisely 
the feeling I now experience. For through hearing 
mere children crying out — whenever they, being the 
Lacedaemonians, were blaming the Athenians for 
anything or praising them — "Your State, Megillus, 
has done us a bad turn or a good one," — through 
hearing such remarks, I say, and constantly fighting 
your battles against those who were thus decrying 
your State, I acquired a deep affection for it ; so that 
now not only do I delight in your accent, but I 
regard as absolutely true the common saying that 
"good Athenians are always incomparably good," 
for they alone are good not by outward compulsion 
but by inner disposition. Thus, so far as I am con- 
cerned, you may speak without fear and say all you 
please. 

CLIN. My story, too. Stranger, when you hear it, 
will show you that you may boldly say all you wish. 
You have probably heard how that inspired man 
Epimenides, who was a family connexion of ours, 
was born in Crete ; and how ten years ^ before the 
Persian War, in obedience to the oracle of the god, 
he went to Athens and offered certain sacrifices 
which the god had ordained ; and how, moreover, 
when the Athenians were alarmed at the Persians' 
expeditionary force, he made this prophecy — " They 
will not come for ten years, and when they do 
come, they will return back again with all their 
hopes frustrated, and after suffering more woes than 

^ Epimenides really lived about 600 &c. 

6i 



PLATO. 

TOT ovv i^evcoOrjaav u/jlIv oi Trpoyovoi r^fxtav, Kai 
evvoiav ck toctov eycoye vjxlv koI ol rjixerepoi 
643 e)(pvaL jov)]<;. 

A0. Ta fieu roivvv v/jLcrepa aKovetv, ax; eoiKev, 
eroijjb av etrj' to. S" e/xa /SovXecrOai fiev eroifMa, 
hvvaaOat, Se ov ttclvv pdSia, OfX(o<; Se ireipareov. 
TTp&Tov Stj ovv tt/oo? tov Xojov optcrMfxeOa irai- 
heiav tl ttot iarl koX riva Bvva/xiv e^et* 8ia 
yap TauTT]^ (j)afu,ev Ireov elvai rov irpoKe)(ei.pi(T- 
fievov €v Tw vvv \6yop v(f)' rjfxcbv, /j,e)(^pL7r€p av 

TTyOO? TOV deOV d(f)ifCJjTat.. 

KA. Udvv fiev OVV Bpay/juev Tavra, etirep aol 
ye 'qSv. 
B A0. AeyovTO^ Tolvvv e/nov tl Trore XPh ^dvai 
Tratheiav elvai, crKeyfraade av dpiaKij to Xex'Siv. 

KA. Aeyoc<; av. 

A0. Aeyco St/, Kai (pij/xi tov otiovv dyadov 
avSpa fxeWovTa eaeaOai tovto uvto ix irai^ayv 
€vdv<; p,e\eTav helv irai^ovTa re Kal (nrovSd^ovTa 
iv TOL<; TOV 7rpdyfj,aT0<; eKaaTois irpocnj/cova-iv' 
olov TOV fieWovTa dyaOov eaeadai yecopyov rj 
C Tiva oIkoBo/jlov, tov fiev olkoSo/jLOvvtu tl tS)V 
TratSeicov olKoSofiTjfxaTcov nai^eiv XP^> '^^^ ^' ^^ 
yewpyovvTa, Kal opyava eKarepw a/xiKpa, tcov 
dXrjOcvcov fiifirjfjiaTa, irapaaKcvd^etv tov Tpe(f)0VTa 
avTcov eKaTcpov' Kal hrj Kal t(ov ixadrip,dTO)v oaa 
dvayKala Trpo/xep.aOrjKevat Trpo/xavOaveiv, olov 
TeKTova fxeTpelv i) cnadpLaadai Kal •iTo\ep,iKOv 
iirireveiv -rrai^ovTa rj ri tcov toiovtcov dWo 
TTOielv,^ Kal Treipdadai St a tmv Traihitav eKeiae 
Tpeneiv to.? T)Bovd<; Kal eVi^u/ita? twi/ iralScov, 

^ voiuv Boeckh, Schanz : iroiovvra MSS. 
62 



LAWS, BOOK I 

they inflict." Then our forefathers became guest- 
friends of yours, and ever since both my fathers 
and I myself have cherished an affection for 
Athens. 

ATM. Evidently, then, you are both ready to play 
your part as listeners. But as for my part, though 
the will is there, to compass the task is hard : still, 
I must try. In the first place, then, our argument 
requires that we should define education and describe 
its effects : that is the path on which our present 
discourse must proceed until it finally arrives at the 
god of Wine. 

CLIN. By all means let us do so, since it is your 
wish. 

ATH. Then while I am stating how education 
ought to be defined, you must be considering 
whether you are satisfied with my statement. 

CLIN. Proceed with your statement. 

ATH. I will. What I assert is that every man 
who is going to be good at any pursuit must practise 
that special pursuit from infancy, by using all the 
implements of his pursuit both in his play and in his 
work. For example, the man who is to make a 
good builder must play at building toy houses, and 
to make a good farmer he must J)lay at tilling land ; 
and those who are rearing them must provide each 
child with toy tools modelled on real ones. Besides 
this, they ought to have elementary instruction in 
all the necessary subjects, — the carpenter, for in- 
stance, being taught in play the use of rule and 
measure, the soldier taught riding or some similar 
accomplishment. So, by means of their games, we 
should endeavour to turn the tastes and desires or 
the children in the direction of that object which 

63 



PLATO 

ot axf)iKonevov<; ctutou? Set TeXo<i eyeiv. K€(})d\aioi 
D or) TTaioeia'i Xe'yo/j.ei^ ttjv 6pdt]v Tpo(f)^v, r) rot 
Trat^ovTO'i rr]v yfrv)(^r)v et? epa)Ta fidXiaTa d^ei 
TOVTOv, o Bejjaet yevofievov dvhp avrov reXetov 
ecvat rfjf; rov Trpdy/naTOf: dpeTrj<i' opdre ovv ei 
fie^pi TOVTOV ye, oirep elirov, v/jlcv dpeaxei to 
Xex'dev. 

KA. Da)? ydp 01) ; 

A0. J\I^ Toivvv fir}8^ Xeyofxev elvai TraiBeiav 
dopicTTOv yivijrat. vvv yap 6veiht,^ovT€<i eirai- 
vovvTe<: 6^ eKdcrrcov rd^ Tpoc})a<i Xeyo/j,ev co? tov 
E yctev 'ire'jraLhevp,evov r]p,5)v ovTa Tivd, tov Se 
diratSevTOV, eviore ei?<Ta> ^ re KaTTrfXeia<i Kal 
vavKXi]pva<; kol dXXcov toioutwv jxdXa Treirai- 
Bevfievov acfioSpa dvO pwirov'^ ov yap ravTa 
rjyovfievcov, q)9 'ioLKSv, elvai iraiheiav o vvv 
\6yo<i dv €17), Tr)v Se tt/jo? dpcTrjv eK TraiBtov 
TraiBelav, jroiovaav €7n6vfir)Ti]v re Kal epaa-Tijv 
TOV ttoXlttjv yeveaOat TeXeov, dpj^eiv re Kal dp- 
')(ecrdai einaTdp.evov [xerd Bi,KJ]<i. ravTrjv ttjv 
544 Tpo(f)r)v d(f)opiadfievoii 6 X6yo<; ovto<;, o)? e'/iol 
(f^aiveTai, vvv ^ovXolt dv fiovijv iraiBeiav irpocr- 
ayopevetv, ttjv Be ei<i '^(pyj/xaTa Tclvovaav rj riva 
7r/)09 Ic^x^vv fj Kal irpo^ dXXrjv Tivd ao^iav dvev 
vov Kal BiKr]<; ^dvavcrov t elvai Kal dveXevOepov 
Kal ovK d^iav to jrapdnav iraiBeiav KaXelaOai. 
t)fiei<; Brj p-rfBev ovofxaTi BiacftepcofieO avTol<^, dXX^ 
6 vvv Brj Xoyo^ rj/xlv 6 p.oXoyrid el<i jxeveTw, wf oi ye 
6pdct)<; ireTraiBevfievot a')(eBov dyaOol ycyvovrat, 
B Kal Bet Br) TTjv TraiBeiav firjBa/jLov aTi/xd^eiv, o)? 

^ els<Ti> : fit MSS. (iTf-dyinara for fj.i\a Ast, alii alia). 
64 



LAWS, BOOK I 

forms their ultimate goal. First and foremost, educa- 
tion, we say, consists in that right nurture which 
most strongly draws the soul of the child when at 
play to a love lor that pursuit of which, when he 
becomes a man, he must possess a perfect mastery. 
Now consider, as I said before, whether, up to this 
point, you are satisfied with this statement of mine. 

CLIN. Certainly we are. 

ATH. But we must not allow our description of 
education to remain indefinite. For at present, when 
censuring or commending a man's upbringing, we 
describe one man as educated and another as unedu- 
cated, though the latter may often be uncommonly 
well educated in the trade of a pedlar or a skipper, 
or some other similar occupation. But we, naturally, 
in our present discourse are not taking the view that 
such things as these make up education : the educa- 
tion we speak of is training from childhood in good- 
ness, which makes a man eagerly desirous of becoming 
a perfect citizen, understanding how both to rule 
and be ruled righteously. This is the special form 
of nurture to which, as I suppose, our present argu- 
ment would confine the term "education" ; whereas 
an upbringing which aims only at money-making or 
physical strength, or even some mental accomplish- 
ment devoid of reason and justice, it would term 
vulgar and illiberal and utterly unworthy of the 
name "education." Let us not, however, quarrel 
over a name, but let us abide by the statement we 
agreed upon just now, that those who are rightly 
educated become, as a rule, good, and that one 
should in no case disparage education, since it stands 

' iTfTraiSfvfifyov . . . iyOpuiitov Comarius : xeiraiSfvfifyurv 
• . . aidpdituv MSS. 

65 



PLATO 

TrpwTOv Tfov KaWiaTCOv TOi<? api(TTOi<; dvBpdai 
Trapaytyvofievov Koi et iroTe e^€p)(^eTai, hvvarov 
8' ecTTiv eTTavopdovadai, tovt del hpaareov hid 
0LOV iravrl Kara hyvap-iv. 

KA. 'OpOw, Kal <Tvy^Q)povfi€v a Xeyei^;. 
A0. Kat fiTjv irdXai ye avve\oipTi](Tap,ev 0)9 
dyad(i)v fikv ovtwv t(ov Svvafievwv apx^iv avTQ)v, 
KaKcav Se ro)v firj. 

KA. Aiy€i<; opQoTara. 

A0. Xa(f)€(TT€pov en rocvvv dvaXd^cofxev tovt 
C aiiTO o TV TTore \eyop.ev. kuL p-oi Si" elK6vo<i 
dTToBe^aaOe idv ttw? BvuaTO<; vfilv yevcofiat 
Brj\(t)aai to toiovtov, 
KA. Ae7e pbovou. 

A0. OvKOVv eva /xev rjixiov eKaaTOv avrav 
Ti06i)fj,€v ; 
KA. Nat. 

A0. Auo Be KeKTrjfxevov iv avTw ^vfx^ovXco 
evavTifo T€ Ka\ d(ppove, o) irpoaayopevofiev r)hovr]v 
Koi Xvirrjv ; 

KA. "EcTTi TavTa. 

A.0. 11/909 Se TOVTOiv dfi(f)olv av S6^a<i fieX- 
\6vTcov, olv KOivov fiev ovo/jLa eA,7rt?, IBiov Be 
<p6^o<; fiep rj trpo Xvtttj^; eX7ri<;, Odppof Be rj irpo 
D Tov evavTiov. eirX Be irdai tovtol^ Xoyicrp.6<i, 6 
TL ttot' avToyv d/xeivov rj '^elpov 09 yevo/nevo^; 
Boyfia 7roXe£y9 kolvov v6/iio<; eTTcovofiaaTat. 

KA. Mo7i9 fiev 7rft)9 e^eiroiiat, Xeye firjv to 
fierd TavTa 0)9 eTrofievov. 
66 



LAWS, BOOK I 

first among tiie finest gifts that are given to the best 
men ; and if ever it errs from the right path, but can 
be put straight again, to this task every man, so long 
as he lives, must address himself with all his might. 

CLIN. You are right, and we agree with what you 
say. 

ATH. Further, we agreed long ago that if men are 
capable of ruling themselves, they are good, but if 
incapable, bad. 

CLIN. Quite true. 

ATH. Let us, then, re-state more clearly what we 
meant by this. VV'ith your permission, 1 will make 
use of an illustration in the hope of e.xplauung the 
matter. 

CLIN. Go ahead. 

ATH. May we assume that each of us by himself 
is a single unit.'' 

CLIN. Yes, 

ATH. And that each f>ossesses within himself two 
antagonistic and foolish counsellors, whom we call by 
the names of pleasure and pain .'' 

CLIN. That is so. 

ATH. And that, besides these two, each man 
possesses opinions about the future, which go by the 
general name of " expectations " ; and of these, 
that which precedes pain bears the special name of 
" fear," and that which precedes pleasure the special 
name of "confidence " ; and in addition to all these 
there is "calculation," pronouncing which of them 
is good, which bad ; and "calculation," when it has 
become the public decree of the State, is named 
" law." 

CLIN. I have some difficulty in keeping pace with 
you : assume, however, that 1 do so, and proceed. 

67 



PLATO 

ME. Kal ev ifiol /xrjv ravro tovto TrdOo<i evi. 

A0. V[ep\ hrj Tovrtov 8tavorj0ci)f^€v ovTcoat. 
Oavfia fxev e/caa-rov rjfxoov rjyija-fofieda tcov ^oowv 
Oelov, €iT6 ft)? Traiyviov eKeivcov eiTe to? (nrovBrj 
Tivl ^vveari-iKO^' ovyap Brj tovto ye ytyvcoaKOfiev 
E ToBe Be tcTfiev, otc TavTa to. Trddrj ev rj/j,iv olov 
vevpa r) firjpivOoi TLVs<i ivovaai cnroxri re jj/ia? 
Koi dWri\.at,<; dvdeXKOvaiv ivavTiai ovaai 67r' 
ivavTLa<; Trpd^ei^;, ov Brj BicopicrfxevT} dpeTT} kcu 
KaKia KecTur fiid yap (fyrjaiv 6 \6yo<i Belv twv 
eX^eoiv ^vveir6pi€vov del ical nyBa/jLJj dTroXeirro- 
fj,€vov eKeivr)<; dudeX/ceiu TOt'; dXXoi<; vevpoi<i e'/ca- 
645 (TTOV, TavTrju B' elvat tyjv tov Xoyiafiov dycoyrjv 
')(^pv(rrjv Kal lepdv, tt}? TroXeo)? koivov vofiov ini- 
KoXov pLevrjv , dXXa<i Be <TKXr)pd<; Kal aiBripd<i, ttjv 
Be fiaXaKrjv <ipiav re^ ^ aTe ^pvarjv ovaav, rrt? 
Be dXXa<; TrauToBaTTol<; eiBeaiv 6p.oia<i' Belv Br) ttj 
KaXXicTTrj dywyfi rfj tov vopov del ^vXXa/x/Sdveiv' 
aTe yap tov Xoyia/j.ov koXov /xev 6Vto<?, irpdov Be 
Kal ov ^laiov, BelaOai vTnjpeTwv avTOv ttju dyco- 
yr]u, OTTO)? di/ <Cjv'^'qp.lv to ^pvcrovv yevo<; viko, Ta 
B dXXa yef?;. Kal ovtq) Br) irepl davp,dTO)V &)? ovtcov 
r)poov 6 ixv6o<; dp eTi ^ aecroycrpevo^; dv eiT), Kal 
TO KpeoTTO) eavTOV Kal rjTTO) elvai Tpoirov Tiva cjyav- 
epov dv y'lyvoLTO pud'KXov o voel, Kal oti ttoXiv Kal 
IBtfoTTjv, tov fiev Xoyov dXrj6P} Xa^ovTa ev eavTO) 
irepl TMv eX^ecov tovtcov tovtw eTro/xevov Bel ^fjv, 
troXiv Be rj irapd dewv TLVO<i r/ Trap" dvOpcoirov tov ^ 
yv6vT0<; TavTa Xoyov TrapaXa^ovaav, v6p,ov de/xe- 

* -Cn'iav T€> I insert (Schanz marks lacuna after ovaav), 

* &p' fTi Badham: aptr^s MSS. 

68 



LAWS, BOOK I 

MEG. I am in exactly the same predicament. 

ATH. Let us conceive of the matter in this way. 
Let us suppose that each of us hvin^ creatures is an 
ingenious puppet of the gods, whether contrived by 
way of a toy of theirs or for some serious purpose — for 
as to that we know nothing ; but this we do know, that 
these inward affections of ours, like sinews or cords, 
drag us along and, being opposed to each other, pull 
one against the other to opposite actions ; and herein 
lies the dividing line between goodness and badness. 
For, as our argument declares, there is one of these 
pulling forces which every man should always follow 
and nohow leave hold of, counteracting thereby the 
pulloftheother sinews: it is theleading-string,golden 
and holy, of " calculation," entitled the public law 
of the State ; and whereas the other cords are hard and 
steely and of every possible shape and semblance, 
this one is flexible and uniform, since it is of gold. 
With that most excellent leading-string of the law 
we must needs co-operate always ; for since calcula- 
tion is excellent, but gentle rather than forceful, its 
leading-string needs helpers to ensure that the golden 
kind within us may vanquish the other kinds. In this 
way our story comparing ourselves to puppets will not 
fall flat, and the meaning of the terms ** self-superior " 
and "self-inferior" will become somewhat more 
clear, and also how necessary it is for the individual 
man to grasp the true account of these inward pulling 
forces and to live in accordance therewith, and how 
necessary for the State (when it has received such 
an account either from a god or from a man who 
knows) to make this into a law for itself and be 

• wop' av9pd>itou TOW : vapa Toirov rov MSS. (wopo airrov 
TovTov Eusebius). 

69 



PLATO 

vrjv, avrfi T€ ofj^iXelv /cal rat? aWaa TToXeaiv. 

C ovTco Kai KUKia or] kuI aperrj <Ta(f)€(rT€pou i]fjuv 
Bir}p6pco/jL€vov av eh]. evapyecTTepov S" avrov 
yevofieifov Kal Traiheia koX raWa irmr]Zevp.ara 
l(T(o<i earai paWov Kara^avr], xal 8t] Kal to irepl 
tt)? eV Tot9 oivot^ SiaTpi^P]^;, o ho^aadeir] /xev av 
eivai (pavXov irept ixyjko^ ttoXv Xoycov TrepiTTOv 
elp-qfjiivov, (paveLT] ^ 8e to-X av tcrw? tov p.i]Kov<: 
7' avroiv ovK arrd^iov. 

KA. Eu Xeyei^, Kal TrepaLvco/nev o rt jrep av 
T>7? ye vvv 8iaTpi^r]<; d^iov yiyvrjTai. 

D A0. A eye hr]- 7rpoa(pepovTe<; rw Oavfiari toutw 
Tr^i^ p,eSr]v TToiov Tt TTore avro aTrepya^op^eOa ; 
KA. Upo'i Tt Be aKOTrovfx,evo<} avTO eTravepQ}Td<; ; 

A&. (JvSeV TTOi 77/309 O Tt, TOVTO 8e oXfOf; KOLVW- 

vrjaav tovtm ttoIov ti ^vp^Triirrei, yiyveaOai. en 
he aa(f)€(TTepov o ^ovXopai Tretpdao/xai (f)pd^€Lv. 
epcoTO) yap to roiovSe' apa a^ohpmepa'^ rdi; 
rjSova^ Kal XvTTa^ koI Ov/jlov'; Kal eptora^ 77 tcov 
oivwv TToai^ iirireiveL ; 

KA. XloXv ye. 
B A0. Tt 8' av Ta? aladr]aeL<i Kal p.v7]p,a<; Kal 
Bo^a^ Kal ^povijaec^ ; iroTepov wcrauTW? a^ohpo- 
repa's, r] TrdpnTav diroXeiiTei ravra avrov, av 
KaTaKopr']<; rt? t^ p-^dr] yiyvtjrai ; 

KA. Nat, Trdp-irav diroXelTreL. 

A0. OvKovv eh ravTov d(f)iKveiTai rrjv t^? 
yfrvx^^i e^iv tj] Tore ore veo<; rjv 7rat9 ; 



^ Zur. assigns (paveiri . . . dTrd^tov to Clin., e5 \4yeis . . . 
ylyvriTai to Ath., and A4yf Sri to Clin.: I follow Hermann 
and later edd. 

70 



LAWS, BOOK I 

guided thereby in its intercourse both with itself 
and with all other States. Thus both badness and 
goodness would be differentiated for us more clearly; 
and these having become more evident, probably 
education also and the other institutions will appear 
less obscure ; and about the institution of the wine- 
party in particular it may very likely be shown that 
it is by no means, as might be thought, a paltry 
matter which it is absurd to discuss at great length 
but rather a matter which fully merits prolonged 
discussion. 

CLIN. Quite right : let us go through with every 
topic that seems important for the present discussion. 

ATH. Tell me now : if we give strong drink to 
this puppet of ours, what effect will it have on its 
character ? 

CLIN. In reference to what particular do you ask 
this question ? 

ATH. To no particular, for the moment : I am 
putting the question in general terms — " when this 
shares in that, what sort of thing does it become in 
consequence?" I will try to convey my meaning 
still more clearly : what I ask is this — does the 
drinking of wine intensify pleasures and pains and 
passions and lusts ? 

CLIN. Yes, greatly. 

ATH. And how about sensations and recollections 
and opinions and thoughts ? Does it make them 
likewise more intense ? Or rather, do not these 
quit a man entirely if he becomes surfeited with 
drink? 

CLIN. Yes, they quit him entirely. 

ATH. He then ;irrives at the same condition of 
soul as when he was a young child ? 

7« 



PLATO 

KA. Tt fJLrjV ; 

A0. "HKiara Brj tot av av7Q<; avrov 'yi'yvcno 
iyxpaTij^i. 
646 KA. "H/fiaTa. 

A0. 'Ap' ovv TTOvrjpoTaTO^;, (fia/xej', 6 roiovro^ ; 

KA. lloXv ye. 

A0. Qv fiovov ap , ft)9 eoLKev, 6 jepcov 8l<; Trait; 
ytyvoiT^ av, ciWa xal o /xeOvadel,^. 

KA. " Apicna 6t7re<>, <w ^eve. 

A0. TouTOf hrj rov iTTiTrjBeufiaTot; ecrd* o<tti<; 
X0709 eTTLy^eLprjcreL ireideiv r]fxa<; to? ^/o^ yeveadai 
KoL fiT] (pevyeiv iravrX aOevet Kara to hvvarov ; 

KA. "Eot/t' elvai' crv yoOv (f)r/<; koI €roifio<i 
rforda vvv Sij \eyeiv. 
B A0. ^A\rj0Pj /xevTOi p.v7j/xovev€t^. Kal vvv 7' 
eifu €TOi/jLO<i,e7r€i87]7rep crcfxa ye ideXijaeiv Trpodvfi(o<i 
€<f)aTOV CLKoveiv. 

KA. Ilwf 8' ovK aKOvcrofieda ; kuv el fxrjSevo^; 
dWov %«/9tt', dWa rov Oav/xacrTOv ye Kal droTrov, 
el Set eKovra irore avdpunrov et? airaaav (pavXoTTjTU 
eavTov ep-fSdWeiv. 

A0. '^v')(rj<i \€y€l<;. rj ydp ; 
KA. Nat. 

A0. Tt 8e acop^aro'i, w eraipe, eh irovripiav, 
XeTTTOTijrd re Kal al(T')(o<i Kal dhvvap.iai> ; dav- 
p^d^oipLev av ei irore rt? ckwv eirl to roiovrov 
C d(f>iKveirai ; 

KA. rift)? ydp ov ; 

A0. Tt ovv ; rov<; el<i rd larpela avrov<{ 
^aBi^ovra<; cttI <f)app,aK07roaLa dyvoelv olofieda 
on p^r oXiyov varepov Kal eirl TroXXa? 7]p.epa<i 

7* 



LAWS, BOOK I 

CLIN. He does. 

ATH. So at tliat moment he will have very little 
control of himselt"? 

CLIN. Very little. 

ATH. And such a man is, we say, very bad ? 

CLIN. Very, indeed. 

ATH. It appears, then, that not the greybeard 
only may be in his " second childhood," but the 
drunkard as well. 

CLIN. An admirable observation. Stranger. 

ATH. Is there any argument which will undertake 
to persuade us that this is a practice we ouglit to 
indulge in, instead of shunning it with all our might 
so far as we possibly can ? 

CLiN. It appears that there is : at any rate you 
assert this, and you were ready just now to argue it. 

ATH. You are right in your reminder, and I am 
still ready to do so, now that you and Megillus have 
both expressed your willingness to listen to me. 

CLIN. Of course we shall listen, if only on account 
of the surprising paradox that, of his own free 
will, a man ought to plunge into the depths of 
depravity. 

ATH. Depravity of soul, you mean, do you not ? 

CLIN. Yes. 

ATH. And how about plunging into a bad state 
of body, such as leanness or ugliness or impotence ? 
Should we be surprised if a man of his own free will 
ever got into such a state r 

CLIN. Of course we should. 

ATH. Well then, do we suppose that persons who 
go of themselves to dispensaries to drink medicines 
are not aware that soon afterwards, and for many 
days to come, they will find themselves in a bodily 

73 



PLATO 

e^ovai ToiovTov to awjxa olov el 8ia riXovi ej(^eiv 
jxeWoiev ^-^v ovk av Be^aivro ; rj tou? iirl to, 
yvfjLvaaia Kal tt6vov<; lovra^ ovk iafiev (w? aadevel^ 
et9 TO vapa's^prj^a yCyi'OVTat ; 
KA. lldvTa ravra ta^xev. 

A0. Kat OTt T^<? /LteTa ravra oK^eXeta? evcKU 
eKovre^; iropevovraL ; 
D KA. KaXXtaTa. 

A0. OvKOVV ^pr] KOI TMV dX\(i)V eTTlTTjSeVfldTCOV 

nrept Biaroela-Oai tov avrou rpoirov ; 

KA. Yldvv ye. 

A0. Kat Trj<i irepl tov olvov dpa StaTpi^tj'i 
ft)crauT&)9 SiavoTjreov, eiirep evi tovto iv Tovroi(; 
op6oi<; 8iavoi]0i]vai. 

KA. rica? 8' ov ; 

A©. Av apa Tiva ^/j,iv w^eXeiav eXovaa 
(^aLvrjrai fx-qhev rrj^ irepl to awfia iXaTTO), tj} 
ye (ipyfj TTjv awp.a(TKLav viko, tw ttjv /xev /j,€t' 
a\yrj8ovcov elvai, ttjv Se /u,t]. 
E Ky\. '0/3^(W9 Xiyei^, Oavfici^oifii, S' av ei ti 
Svvaifieda toiovtov ev avTui KaTaixadelv. 

A0. ToGt' auTO 8ri vvv, &>? eot^, "H/^tv I'jSrj 
TrecpaTeov (f^pd^eiv. kui fioi Xiye' 8vo (po^oov 
elSy] a)(^eB6v evavTca Swd/xeOa KaravoT^craL ; 

KA. Yiola Bj) ; 

A0. Ta TomSe* (i>o^ovp,eda fxev ttov to, kuku, 
'irpoaBoKO)VTe<i yevr)aeadai. 

KA. Nat'. 

A0. ^o^ovfxeOa Be ye TroWa/tt? Bo^av, ■t^yov- 
fxevoi Bo^d^eadat kukoX TrpdTTovTes rj Xeyovre^ tc 
647 Tcov /LIT) KoKoiV ov Br) Kal KaXuvfiev tov (f>6fiov 
77/iet9 y€, olfuii Be Kal navTC^, ala-^vvrjv. 
74 



LAWS, BOOK I 

condition such as would make life intolerable^ if it 
were to last for ever ? And we know, do we not, 
that men who go to the gymnasia for hard training 
commence by becoming weaker ? 

CLIN. All this we know. 

ATH. We know also that they go there voluntarily 
for the sake of the subsequent benefit ? 

CLIN. Quite true. 

ATH. Should one not take the same view of the 
other institutions also ? 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH. Then one must also take the same view ot 
the practice of wine-drinking, if one can rightly class 
it amongst the others. 

CLIN. Of course one must. 

ATH. If then this practice should be shown to be 
quite as beneficial for us as bodily training, certainly 
at the outset it is superior to it, in so far as it is not, 
like bodily training, accompanied by pain. 

CLIN. That is true ; but I should be surprised if 
we succeeded in discovering in it any benefit. 

ATH. That is precisely the point which we must 
at once try to make plain. Tell me now : can we 
discern two kinds of fear, of which the one is nearly 
the opposite of the other .'' 

CLIN. What kinds do you mean ? 

ATH. These : when we expect evils to occur, we 
fear them. 

CLIN. Yes. 

ATH. And often we fear reputation, when we think 
we shall gain a bad repute for doing or saying some- 
thing base ; and this fear we (like everybody else, I 
imagine) call shame. 

' Evidently, drastic purgatives were commonly prescribed, 

75 



PLATO 

KA. Ti 8' ov ; 

Ae. TouTouv ^Tj hvo eXeyov <fi6^ov<;' mv o 
€T€po<i (uavTLO<i fi€v Tul^ dXyTjBoai koI TOi? aWoif 
(f)6/3oi<;, ivavrio^ 8' ecrrt ratv irXeiarai'} KUi 
fi€yi(7rai<; r)8ovai<;. 

KA. ^OpdoTUTU \iy€i<i. 

A0. 'A/3' ovv ov Kal * vofjLO$€Tr)(;, Kal Tra? oy 

^al afiiKpov o(f)€\o'i, tovtop top (f)6^ov iv rcfifj 

/jLeyiCTTr] ae^€i Kal, Kokoiiv alBco, to toutw 6dppo<i 

ivavTiov dpaiBetdu re Trpoaayopevei Kal /xeytaTOv 

B KUKov Ihla re Kal h-qpLoaia Tract vevo/J.iK€P ; 

KA. ^Opdu)<; \iy€i<i. 

Ae. OvKovv TO, T aWa iroWa Kal fieydXa o 
(f)6^o<; rj/jLd<; ovro^t crw^ei, Kal rrjv iv ru> iroXipiw 
I'LKrjv Kal acorrjpiau ev Trp6<i eu ovSev ovtco <T(p6opa 
■fjfjLiv direpyd^eTai. 8vo yap ovv earov ra rrjv 
VLKT]v direpyal^opLeva, Odppo'i p-ev TroXeptiov, (f>iX(Ov 
Se (po^o^ alo^vvr)<; rrepl KdKtjs.^ 

KA. "Kan ravra. 

A0. "Acfio^ov rjpciyv dpa Bet yiyveaOai Kat 
C (po^epov eKaarov wv S' eKdrepov ev€Ka, Bi7jp7]/j,e6a. 

KA. Tldvv fiev ovv. 

A0. Kal pbr}V d(f)o^6v ye CKaarov ^ovXr^devTC^ 
TTOielv (f)6^(OV TToXXiOV TlVO)V, 6i9 (})60ov ayovTC^ 

ainov perd vbpuov roiovrov direpya^opieda. 
KA. 'i>aLi'6peda. 
A0. Tt S' orav i7n')(^eip(i)p,ev Tiva (po^epop 

* oil Ka\ Ast : ovk hf Zur. , MSS. 

* irtpl KaKrjs : irfpi Kanris MSS., edd. 

76 



LAWS, BOOK 1 

CLIN. Of course. 

ATH. These are the two fears I was meaning ; 
and of these the second is opposed to pains and to 
all other objects of fear, and opposed also to the 
greatest and most numerous pleasures.* 

CLIN. Very true. 

ATH. Does not, then, the lawgiver, and every 
man who is worth anything, hold this kind of fear in 
the highest honour, and name it " modesty " ; and 
to the confidence which is opposed to it does he not 
give the name " immodesty," and pronounce it to be 
for all, both publicly and privately, a very great 
evil ? 

CLIN. Quite right. 

ATH. And does not this fear, besides saving us in 
many other important respects, prove more effective 
than anything else in ensuring for us victory in war 
and security ? For victory is, in fact, ensured by two 
things, of which the one is confidence towards 
enemies, the other, fear of the shame of cowardice in 
the eyes of friends. 

CLIN. That is so. 

ATH, Thus each one of us ought to become both 
fearless and fearful ; and that for the several reasons 
■we have now explained. 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH. Moreover, when we desire to make a person 
fearless in respect of a number of fears, it is by draw- 
ing him, with the help of the law, into fear that we 
make him such. 

CLIN. Apparently. 

ATH. And how about the opposite case, when we 

' i.e. shame, which is fear of disgrace, induces fortitude 
under pain and the power of resisting vicious pleasures. 

77 

VOL. I. D 



PLATO 

iroieiv jxeTCL SiK-rj^i, ap" ovk avaia-)(yvTia ^Vfi^dX- 
\ovTa<; avTov Kal tt pocr-yv ^vdi^ovTa<i vikolv Sel 
TToieiv hiaixa'X^oiievov aurov rat? -^Soval^; ; rj rfj 
fiev heiSla ttj iv avro) Trpoa/xa^o/xevov Kal viKWVTa 
D avTTjv Set reXeov ovto) yLyv€(r6ai tt/jo? dvhpiav, 
aireipo^: 8e Bt^ttou Kal djvp,vacrTo<; wv roiv roiovroiv 
dycovwv oaTiaovp ov8^ dv ij/xicrv^ eavTOU yevotTc 
7rp6<; dper^v, crax^pfov he dpa TeXeco^ earai /xtj 
TToXXat? r)8ovai<i Kal eiridufiiai^; 7rpoTpe7Tovaai<; 
dvaLa')(yvTeZv Kal dBcKeiv 8ta/Ae/ia^7//i.eVo9 Kal 
veviKi)K(6<; fxerd Xoyov Kal epyov Kal Te-)(yri<; ev 
re 7rat8iat? Kal ev airovhal^, dXhS diradrj^ cov 
TrdvTcov rb)v roiovTOiv ; 

KA. OvKovv Tov 7' eiKOTa \6yov dv e^oi. 
E A0. Tt ovv ; (f)6^ov (f>dpfiaKov ecrO' 0? ri<; deo<; 
ehcuKev dvdp(t)Troi<;, ware OTToao) irXeov dv eOeX-rj 
Tt? TTLveiv avTOv, rouovTW fidXXov avTOV vo/jLi^etv 
648 KaO^ eKucTTt^v TToaiv Svarvx^Pj yiyveadai, Kal 
(f)o^eicrdat rd Trapovra Kal rd fieXXovra avrw 
nrdvTa, Kal TcXevTcovra elq irdv 8eo9 Uvai tov 
dvhpeioTarov dvOpoiiTwv, eKKoifirjOevTa 8e Kal 
TOV TT(i)pxtro<i d-naXXayevra ttuXiv eKaaTore tov 
avTov ylyvecrdaL ; 

KA. Kat Tt ToiovTov (f)al/j-€v dv, ft) ^eve, ev 
dv6pct)Troi<; yeyovevac 7rco/xa ; 

A0. OuBev el 5' ovv iyevero irodev, eaO 6 ti 
7r/309 dvhplav rjv dv vop-oOeTT) '^prjaifiov ; olov to 
TOiovhe TTepl avTov Kal fxdXa eixofiev dv avTw 
SiaXeyeadai (Pipe, S) vop,odeTa, ehe Kprjalv, eW 
78 



LAWS, BOOK I 

attempt with the aid of justice to make a man fear- 
ful ? Is it not by pitting him against shamelessness 
and exercising him against it that we must make 
him victorious in the fight against his own pleasures ? 
Or shall we say that, whereas in the case of courage 
it is only by fighting and conquering his innate 
cowardice that a man can become perfect, and no 
one unversed and unpractised in contests of this sort 
can attain even half the excellence of which he is 
capable, — in the case of temperance, on the other 
hand, a man may attain perfection without a stub- 
born fight against hordes of pleasures and lusts which 
entice towards shamelessness and wrong-doing, and 
without conquering them by the aid of speech and 
act and skill, alike in play and at work, — and, in 
fact, without undergoing any of these experiences ? 

cuN. It would not be reasonable to suppose so. 

ATM. Well then : in the case of fear does there 
exist any specific, given by God to men, such that, 
the more a man likes to drink of it, the more, at every 
draught, he fancies himself plunged in misfortune and 
dreads alike things present and things to come, till 
finally, though he be the bravest of men, he arrives 
at a state of abject terror; whereas, when he has 
once got relieved of the potion and slept it off, he 
always becomes his normal self again ? 

CLIN. What potion of the kind can we mention. 
Stranger, as existing anywhere ? 

ATH. There is none. Supposing, however, that 
there had been one, would it have been of any 
service to the lawgiver for promoting courage .'' For 
instance, we might quite well have addressed him 
concerning it in this wise : " Come now, O lawgiver, 
— whether it be Cretans you are legislating for or 

79 



PLATO 

B olariaLvovv vofioderei^, irpwTov fjuev twv irokLTwv 
ap av Se^aio ^daavov hwaro^ eluai Xafi^dvew 
avhpva<; re irept kuI SeiXta? ; 

KA. <PatJ; TTOv Tra? av SfjXov on. 

A9. Tt oe ; fier d(T(f)a\€La<; xal avev kcvSvvcou 
^eydXwv r) fierd tmv evavriwv ; 

KA. Kat rovTo <t(» ^ fxerd Tr}<i d<T(f)a\€ia<; 
^vvofxoXojTjaei Tra?. 

A0. X/DoSo S' av 6i<? TOv<i (f)6^ou<; tovtov<; aywv 
Ka\ iXejx^^ ^^ '''O^'? TTadrjp,aa-iv, ware dvajKd^eiv 
a(f)0^ov yiyveadai, TrapaKeXev6fievo<; xal vovOercov 
G Kal rifjicov, rov 8e drifid^oyv, o(Tri<i croi fir) ireidoiro 
eivai roiovrof; olov av rdrroi<i ev irdat ; Kal 
yvfivaad/ievov fiev ev xal dvBpeiw<i d^ijfxcov dwaX- 
XdrroL^ dv, KaKa)<i Se ^rj/xLav emrideU ; rj ro 
rrapdirav ovk dv XPV^> M-V^^^ dXXo iyKaXwv to) 
TTOofiari ; 

KA. Kat TTco? OVK dv xPV'^o, ft) ^eve ; 

A0. Vvfivaaia yovv, co (f>iXe, rrapd rd vvv 
0avp,aarTj paarcovij^ dv eirj Kud' eva Kal Kar 
D 6Xlyov<; Kal Kad^ oiroaovi ra del ^ovXotro' Kal 
et re Tf? dpa fMovo^i ev ipTjfiia, rb T779 ala^vvr]^ 
eTTLirpoaOev 7roiovfMevo<i, rrplv ev a^^tv rjyovfxevo<; 
opdadai p.T] Selv, ovrw tt/jo? rov<; <f)6^ov<i yvfxvd- 
^oiro, TTM/xa jxovov dvrl /xvplcov Trpayfidrcov 
7rapaaKeva^6fxevo<;, opOco^i dv ri tt parrot, ei re 
ri<{ eavrw Triarevcov (f)vaei Kal /neXerrj KaXax; 

* <t6> added by England. 
80 



LAWS, BOOK I 

anyone else, — would not your first desire be to have 
a test of courage and of cowardice which you might 
apply to your citizens ? " 

CLIN. Obviously everyone of them would say 
" Yes." 

ATH. " And would you desire a test that was 
safe and free from serious risks, or the reverse ? " 

GUN. All will agree, also, that the test must be 
safe. 

ATH. "And would you utilise the test by bringing 
men into these fears and proving them while thus 
affected, so as to compel them to become fearless ; 
employing exhortations, admonitions and rewards, — 
but degradation for all those that refused to conform 
wholly to the character you prescribed .'' And would 
you acquit without penalty everyone who had trained 
himself manfully and well, but impose a penalty on 
everyone who had done so badly ? Or would you 
totally refuse to employ the potion as a test, although 
you have no objection to it on other grounds ? " 

cuN. Of course he would employ it. Stranger. 

ATH. At any rate, my friend, the training involved 
would be wonderfully simple, as compared with our 
present methods, whether it were applied to indi- 
viduals singly, or to small groups, or to groups ever 
so large. Suppose, then, that a man, actuated by a 
feeling of shame and loth to show himself in public 
before he was in the best of condition, should remain 
alone by himself while undergoing this training 
against fears and relying on the potion alone for his 
solitary equipment, instead of endless exercises, — he 
would be acting quite rightly : so too would he who, 
trusting in himself that by nature and practice he is 
already well equipped, should have no hesitation in 

8i 



PLATO 

irapea Kcvdadat fj.r]B€i> okvoI fiera ^VfxiroTOiv 
irXeLovoiv fyv/jiva^o/xevofi eTnheiKvvadai ttjv iv ry 
rov TT(i}fj,aTO<i dvayKala hia^opa 8vva/xiv vTcepOewv 
E «ai KpaTcov, (jjare vir da)(^r}/j.oavvr)<; /u,r]8e ev 
a(f>dX\ea0ai fieya ixrjK dWoioiiadai hi dpeTrjV, 
•npo<i Be TTjv ea')(^dTr}v iroaiv dirdWdTTono irpXv 
d(^LKvelcrdai.y rrjv ttuvtcov rj'rjav (f)o^ovfj,€vo<; 
dvOpcoTraiv tov Trdop.aTO^. 

KA. Nat" GQ)(f)povoL)] 7 ap,^ c5 ^eve, kuX 6 
roiovTO<i ovTO) Trpdrrwv. 
649 A0. ndXip Bt] 7r/9o? TOV vofioderyv Xeycofiev 
jdBe' Kiev, 0) vofioOera, rov p-ev Brj (f>6^ov 
a^eBov ovie deo<i eBwKev dv0p(vTrot,<; toiovtov 
(f)dpp.aKov ovT€ avrol p,ep,r}-)^avi'jp,e6a' Tov<i yap 
y6r)Ta<i ovk ev doLvrj Xiyco' tj}? Be d^o^ia^ Kal 
TOV Xiav Oappelv Kal aKaipw^ [a p.r) %/3v],^ -noTepov 
ean Troyp-a, rj 7r(o<; Xeyop,ev ; 

KA. "Kan, tp'qaet ttov, tov olvov (fypd^cov. 

A&. 'H Kal TOvvavTiov e^ef tovto Tq> vvv Br) 
Xeyo p,ev(p ; iriovTa tov dvOpcoirov avTov avTOv 
TTOiei TrpwTov 'iXea>v evdv^ p,dXXov rj vpoTepov, 
Kal oTToaw dv trXeov auTov yevrjTai, ToaovTcp 
B TrXeLovwv eXTTiBcov dyadwv TrXrjpouaOai ^ Kal 
Bvvdpeo}<i et? Bo^av ; Kal TeA-euTwi' Brj Trdarj'i a 
ToiovTo<i irapprjaia'i w? ao(f)0<i wv p-eaTOVTai Kal 
eXev9epia<i, 7rdcrr)(; Be d(f)o/3La^ uxTTe elirelv tc 
doKVfO'i OTiovv, dxravTOi^ Be Kal TTpd^ai ; 7rd<i * 
r/fuv, olp,ai, ravT dv avy)((»>Pol' 

KA. Tt pLrjv ; 



1 y &V conj. England : yip MSS. (70^ iv Stallb.) 
* [&. /x^ xpv] I bracket. 



82 



LAWS, BOOK I 

training in company with a number of drinking com- 
panions and showing off how for speed and strength 
he is superior to the potency of the draughts he is 
obliged to drink, with the result that because of his 
excellence he neither commits any grave impropriety 
nor loses his head, and who, before they came to the 
last round, should quit the company, through fear of 
the defeat inflicted on all men by the wine-cup. 

CLIN. Yes, Stranger, this man too would be acting 
temperately. 

ATM. Once more let us address the lawgiver and 
say : " Be it so, O lawgiver, that for producing fear 
no such drug apparently has been given to men by 
God, nor have we devised such ourselves (for quacks 
I count not of our company) ; but does there exist a 
potion for inducing fearlessness and excessive and 
untimely confidence, — or what shall we say about 
this?" 

CLIN. Presumably, he will assert that there is one, 
— naming wine. 

ATH. And is not this exactly the opposite of the 
potion described just now? For, first, it makes 
the person who drinks it more jovial than he was 
before, and the more he imbibes it, the more he 
becomes filled with high hopes and a sense of power, 
till finally, puffed up with conceit, he abounds in 
every kind of licence of speech and action and every 
kind of audacity, without a scruple as to what he says 
or what he does. Everyone, 1 imagine, would agree 
that this is so. 

CLIN. Undoubtedly. 

' w\Tipova6ai MSS : -rAjjpoCrai Zur. 

■• Zur. gives -ras . . . auyxwitot to Clin., and rl ix-fiv ; to 
ileg. : I follow Cornarius, Ast, al. 

83 



PLATO 

Ae. Ava/j,vy}a6u)/jL€P Brj ToSe, on 5u' ecpa/xcp 
rjfiayv ev rai<; -x/ri/^at? 8iii> OepaTreveaOai, to /xev 
^ OTTft)? o 71 ndXiara Bapprjao/M-v, ro 8e rovvavriov 
6 71 fidXiara ^o^rjaofieOa. 

KA. ''A T?}"? alhov<i eXeye'i, ax? olo/ueda. 

Ae. KaXco? iu,v7]/j.ov€V€T€. €7r€i8r] Be Tqv re 
dvhpiav Koi TTjv dcfjo^lav ev toI<; <p6^oi,<i Set Kara- 
fieXerdaOai, oKeirreov apa to evavriov ev roi<i 
evavrioi^; OepaireveaOai Beov dv eXrj. 

KA. To 7' ovv eiKo^;. 

Ae. '^A TTad6vT€<; dpa Tre^vKafxev SiacfiepovTcos 
OappaXeoi r elvai koX dpaael^, ev Tovrot<; heov dv, 
0)9 eoLK , e'lT] TO fieXeTav &)<? rjKLCTTa elvac dvat,a')(yv- 
D Tou? re Kol Opaavnjro^ <yep-ovTa<{, (f>o0epov'i 8e et? 
TO Ti ToXfiav eKdaTOTe Xeyetv rj Trdax^iv r) koX 
Spdv ala')(^p6v otiovv. 

KA. "Koixev. 

A0. OvKovv ravrd eari rrdvra ev ol<i ea/xev 
TOiouTOi, du/jio^, ep(o<i, v^pa, dfxadia, (f)iXoKepBeia, 
dipeihta,^ kuX en TOidBe, ttX-oOto?, /cdXXo^, tV^y?, 
Koi irdvd^ oaa hi ijBovrj'; av fxeduaKOvra irapd^po- 
va<; TToiel' tovt(ov S' evTeXrj re Kal datvearepav 
TrpcoTov fiev 7rp6<; to Xafi^dvetv Trelpav, elra etf to 
fieXerdv, ttXtjv t% ev olvtp ^aadvov xal 7rai8ta,<: 
E TLva €-)(opi€V iJir)Xo.vrjV ^ €L7T€lv efjifji€Tpov fJidXXov, dv 
Kai oTTOianovv pier euAa^eta? yiyvqrai. ; aKOTToJ- 
fiev yap Bij' BvaKoXov yfrv^Pjii xal dypia<i, e^ 179 
dSiKtai /jLVpiai yiyvovTai, iroTepov iovra el<i rd 
^vfjL^uXaia TTelpav Xa/x^dveiv, KivSuveuovTa irepX 
avTU), a(f)aXep(t)Tepov, rj ^vyyev6p,evov /xerd Trjt 

* 6.(f>ti8la: SetAt'a MSS. (bracketed by Ast). 

* fj.r]xavriv G. G. Miiller : rjSovrjv MSS., add. 
34 ^ avTO) Bekker, Schanz : avriuv MSS. 



LAWS, BOOK I 

ATH. Let us recall our previous statement th»t 
we must cultivate in our souls two things — namely, 
the greatest possible confidence, and its opposite, the 
greatest possible fear. 

CLIN. Which you called, I think, the marks of 
modesty. 

ATH. Your memory serves you well. Since cour- 
age and fearlessness ought to be practised amidst 
fears, we have to consider whether the opposite 
quality ought to be cultivated amidst conditions of 
the opposite kind. 

CLIN. It certainly seems probable. 

ATH. It appears then that we ought to be placed 
amongst those conditions which naturally tend to 
make us exceptionally confident and audacious when 
we are practising how to be as free as |)ossible from 
shamelessness and excessive audacity, and fearful of 
ever daring to say or suffer or do anything shameful. 

CLIN. So it appears. 

ATH. And are not these the conditions in which 
we are of the character described,— anger, lust, inso- 
lence, ignorance, covetousness, and extravagance ; and 
these also, — wealth, beauty, strength, and everything 
which intoxicates a man with pleasure and turns his 
head ? And for the purpose, first, of providing a cheap 
and comparatively harmless test of these conditions, 
and, secondly, of affording practice in them, what 
more suitable device can we mention than wine, 
with its playful testing — provided that it is employed 
at all carefully ? For consider : in the case of a man 
whose disposition is morose and savage (whence spring 
numberless iniquities), is it not more dangerous to 
test him by entering into money transactions with 
him, at one's own personal risk, than by associating 

8S 



PLATO 

650 Tov Aiovvaov dticopia^ ; 7) tt/jo? Td(f)po8i(ria -qTrrj- 
fiivrjf; Tiv6<; yfru^r]<i ^daavov Xafj-^dveiv, eirirpe- 
TTOvra avTov 6vyaT€pa<; re Kal vl€i<i koL 'yvvaiKa} 
oinci)<; ev rol'i (^iXTaroi,^ Kivhvvevaravra, ^0o^ 
"^^XV^ 0^o,or('-o'0ai ; koX fivpia 8t} Xeycov ovk av 
Ti<i TTore dvixreiev, oao) hia<^epei ro pLerd 7raiBid<; 
TTjv aX\ft)9 dvev puiaOov ^rjpii(o8ov<; dewpelv Kal 
St) Kal TOVTO fiev avro rrepl ye tovtcov ovt av 
B Kp?7Ta9 OVT dWov<i dv9 pdoTrovi ovBepa<i olopeda 
dpLt^ia^rjTrjaai, prj ov irelpdv re dW.rjXcov iiriecKrj 
TavTTjv elvai ro re rrj<i evreKela<i Kal da(^a\eia<s 
Kal rd'xov'i Bia(f>€peiv tt/jo? ra? dWa<i ^aadvov^. 

KA. ^ KXrjdh'i rovro ye. 

A0. Tovro p,ev dp^ dv rStv 'Xprjcrip.oyrdrMv ev 
eir), ro yvSyvai rd<; (f)vaei^ re Kal e^et? twi' ■\}rv)(^cii)v, 
ri] re^vj) eKeivrj ^<i earl ravra deparreveiv €(Tti 
5e TTOV, (fiafiev, ct)9 olpai, rroXtriKr]';. 77 yap ; 

KA. Hdvu pev ovv. 

^ 'fwaiKa Ast, Schanz : yuvaiKas MSS. 



86 



LAWS, BOOK I 

with him with the help of Dionysus and his festive 
insight ? And when a man is a slave to the pleasures 
of sex, is it not a more dangerous test to entrust to 
him one's own daughters and sons and wife, and thus 
imperil one's own nearest and dearest, in order to 
discover the disposition of his soul ? In fact, one 
might quote innumerable instances in a vain en- 
deavour to show the full superiority of this playful 
method of inspection which is without either serious 
consequence or costly damage. Indeed, so far as 
that is concerned, neither the Cretans, I imagine, 
nor any other people would dispute the fact that 
herein we have a fair test of man by man, and that 
for cheapness, security and speed it is superior to all 
other tests. 

CLIN. That certainly is true. 

ATH. This then — the discovery of the natures 
and conditions of men's souls — will prove one of the 
things most useful to that art whose task it is to treat 
them ; and that art is (as 1 presume we say) the 
art of politics : is it not so i* 

CLIN. Undoubtedly. 



»7 



B 

652 A0. To St) fieTO, tovto, a)? eoiKe, (TKeiTTeov 
iKeZvo Trepl avrwv, TTOTepa tovto fiovov aya66i> 
e^et, TO KUTiSeiv 7r<u<? exofJ^ev Ta<i (f)va€i<i, rj Kai ti 
fieyedo<i a)(f)€X€ia^ a^cov ttoWt}? ctttouS^? eveaT iv 
TTj KUT 6p6ov %/3eta Tri<; iv oivw avuovaia^. ri 
ovv St] Xeyofxev ; evead\ 6ii<i 6 Xoyo^; eoiKe ^ovXe- 
aduL at)fj.alveiv' ottt) Be kuI ottw^, uKovwpev irpoa- 
exovTd TOP vovv, fii'j TTTj TTapaTToSiaOoj/jiev inr' 
avTov. 

KA. A67' OVV. 

A0. * Ava/j.vr)a6t]vai tolvvv eycoye ttuXiv itn- 

653 OvpLOi TV ttot iXeyofiev ^ jj/jilv elvai T-qv opdrjv 
Traiheiav. tovtov yap, w? 7' iyoD TOTrd^o) to, vvv, 
eoTcv iv Tw €TriTr}Bev/j.aTi tovtw koXw KaTopOov- 
fieuo) atoTTjpla. 

KA. Meya \ey€i<{. 

A0. Aiyci) Toivvv Twv TraiBoiv vaiSi/CTjv elvai 
irpfjyTrjv alaOiiaiv rjhovrjv Koi Xvirrjv, koi iv ol^ 
ap€T7j "^v^jl K^oX KaKia irapayiyveTai irpoiTov, 
Tavr' elvai' (^povrjcnv Be Kal aXr^Oel^ B6^a<i /9e- 
^aiov<i, evTv^V^ ^ OTto kol tt/jo? to yrjpaf nap- 
eyeveTO' TeXea B ovv ecrT* dvOpcoirof tuvtu koI to, 
B iv TovTOi'i TTcivTa K€KTri/u.evo<; dyadd. TraiBeiav Brf 
Xeyco TT]v TrapayiyvofjLevrjv irpoiTov iratcrXv dpcT^v, 
rjBovi] Be Kal (piXla /cal Xvttt} Kal p,l(To^ av 6pda)<{ 
iv "vlry^at? iyylyvcovTai fiTjiro) Bvva/xevwv Xoyov ^ 

^ wot' ikf-yo/uLfi' Madvig, Schanz : tot* \4yofj,ev MSS. 
• ti/rux^t Ast: fi/ruxfi MSS. 

88 



BOOK II 

ATH. In the next place, we probably ought to 
enquire, regarding this subject, whether the dis- 
cerning of men's natural dispositions is the only 
gain to be derived from the right use of wine- 
parties, or whether it entails benefits so great as 
to be worthy of serious consideration. What do we 
say about this ? Our argument evidently tends to 
indicate that it does entail such benefits ; so how 
and wherein it does so let us now hear, and that 
with minds attentive, lest haply we be led astray 
by it. 

CLIN. Say on. 

ATH. I want us to call to mind again our definition 
of right education. For the safe-keeping of this 
depends, as 1 now conjecture, upon the correct 
establishment of the institution mentioned. 

GUN. That is a strong statement! 

ATH. What I state is this, — that in children the 
first childish sensations are pleasure and pain, and 
that it is in these first that goodness and badness come 
to the soul ; but as to wisdom and settled true 
opinions, a man is lucky if they come to him even 
in old age ; and he that is possessed of these bless- 
ings, and all that they comprise, is indeed a perfect 
man. I term, then, the goodness that first comes 
to children "education." When pleasure and love, 
and pain and hatred, spring up rightly in tiie souls 
of those who are unable as yet to grasp a rational 

* Kiyov Euseb., Schanz : K6f<f M^S. 

89 



PLATO 

Xa^^dveiv, Xa^ovrwv 8e rov \6yov avix(j>covrjao>ai rat 
Xoyo), (^Tco) ^ opdcos eldiadai. vtto rcov TTpoarjKovrojv 
iOaJv avrrj ead^ ^ r) ^VLL<^ix)via ^vyiTraaa fjL€v aperq, 
TO he irepl ra<; r)oova<; xal \vTra<; redpafjufievov 
ainrj<i 6p6co<;, ware fiicreiv fiev a -x^prj jxiaelv evdv<i 

C e^ ap')(ri'; fii'y^pt. TeXov<i, aTepyeiv Se a XPV orTcpyeiu, 
TovT avTo aTTorefxcbv tm Xoyo) koi Traihelav irpoa- 
ayopevcov, Kara ye rrjv e/jLT)u 6p6co<; av irpoa- 
ayopevoi^. 

KA. Kai. yap, co ^eve, rjfjLLu Kal ra irporepov 
opdoi'i aot 7rai8ela<i irept Kai ra vvv eiprjadai 
BoKel. 

A0. Ka\ft)<? roivvv. rovrcov yap Stj rodv 6p66)<i 
reOpafM/jLevMv rjhovcav Kal Xvrrojv iratheioiv ovaoav 
XaXarai Tol<i au6p(io7roi<; kuI hia<^delperai ra 

D TToWa iv ra> /3tft), deol he olKreipaure<i ro ratv 
av6p(i)iT(i}v eirirrovov Trec^f/co? yevo^ avaTrav\a<i re 
avroh roiv irovcou erd^avro rd^ rcov eoproiv 
dp,oi^d<; [roi<; O€oi<i],^ Kal Moucrai? 'ATroWcoud re 
fxovariyerriv Kal Aiovvaov ^vi/eopracrrd<; ehocrav, tV 
eiravopdodvrai, rd<; ye * rpo(f)d<; yevop-evoi ^ ev 
ral<i eopral^ fxerd deoiv. opav ovv -y^prj irorepov 
dXy]OT}<; rj/xiv Kara t^vaiv o Xoyo<; vjxvelrai ra vvv, 
rj TTft)?. (prjal he ro veov d-nav a)<? eVo? elirelv roi<i 
re adifxacTt Kal rat? (f)Q)vai<i ■qav)(^Lav dyeiv ov 

E hvvaadai, KivelaOai he del i^rjrelv Kal (f)Oeyyecr0ai, 
ra fiev dXX6p,eva Kal aKtprwvra, olov opyovpieva 
fieO^ r)hovr)<i Kal irpocnrai^ovra, rd he (pOeyyofieva 
7rd(Ta<i (fxovd'i' rd puev ovv dXXa ^coa ovk e^eiv 

* <Ta)> Stallbaum. 

^ avn; ead' Euseb. : ain-^ad' MSS. : avrfjs 6' Zur. 
' [rot? Oeois] omitted by Schanz, after Clem. Alex. 

* ye Hermann : re MSS. : omitted by Zur, 
90 



LAWS, BOOK II 

account ; and when, after grasping the rational ac- 
count, they consent thereunto through having been 
rightly trained in fitting practices : — this consent, 
viewed as a whole, is goodness, while the part o(. it 
that is rightly trained in respect of pleasures and 
pains, so as to hate what ought to be hated, right 
from the beginning up to the very end, and to love 
what ought to be loved, — if you were to mark this 
part off in your definition and call it " education," 
you would be giving it, in my opinion, its right name. 

CLIN. You are quite right. Stranger, as it seems 
to us, both in what you said before and in what you 
say now about education. 

ATH. Very good. Now these forms of child- 
training, which consist in right discipline in pleasures 
and pains, grow slack and weakened to a great 
extent in the course of men's lives ; so the gods, in 
pity for the human race thus born to misery, have 
ordained the feasts of thanksgiving as periods of 
respite from their troubles ; and they have granted 
them as companions in their feasts the Muses and 
Apollo the master of music, and Dionysus, that they 
may at least set right again their modes of discipline 
by associating in their feasts with gods. We must 
consider, then, whether the account that is harped on 
nowadays is true to nature ? What it says is that, 
almost without exception, every young creature is 
incapable of keeping either its body or its tongue 
quiet, and is always striving to move and to cry, 
leaping and skipping and delighting in dances and 
games, and uttering, also, noises of every description. 
Now, whereas all other creatures are devoid of any 

* -fffSfifyot Wagner, Schanz : ytvofifvas MSS. 

91 



PLATO 

alaOtjaiv Ttov iv Tat<; Kivrjaeai rd^ecov ovhe 
ara^icov, ol? Btj f)v6/bL6<; ovofia Koi dpfiovla' r)fuv 
he ou? elTrofxev tou? deov^ (TvyxopevTa<; SeBoaOai, 
TOVTOV^ elvai koX tov<: SeSoyKora^ ttjp evpvOfiov re 
Kal ivapfioviov aiadrjaiv fieO rjSovrj^, fj Brj Kivelv 
654 re 77/409 Kal j(opri'yetv r]fx(ov tovtov<;, toSat? re /cat 
6p-)(r)(reaiv aXkrj\oL<i ^vveipovra<;, 'xppov'^ re oovo- 
fiUKCvac irapa Trjf; )(^apd^ ep,(j)i jv ovofia. irpwrov 
St} touto uTToBe^co/jieda ; doifieu iraiheiav elvai 
TrpcoTTfjv 8ia M.ov(To}u re xal AiroXXoyvo'; ; rj ttw? ; 

KA. OuTft)?. 

Ae. OvKOvv 6 fiev aTrai'SefTO? d')^6pev70<i rip.lv 
B earai, rov he ireiraihevpevov iKavw<; KexopevKora 
dereov ; 

KA. Tt pi,rjv ; 

A0. KopeCa ye p,rjv 6p-)(r}ai<i re Kal (phrj to 
^vvokov e<TTlV. 

KA. ^AvajKalov. 

Ae. 'O /ca\<w9 dpa 7T€7raiheup,evo<; aheiv re Kal 
opx^laOai hvvaro^ dv ecrj KaXoi)'?. 

KA. ^EoiKev. 

Ae. "Ihoop^ev hrj rt ttot' earl to vvv av Xeyo- 
pevov. 

KA. To TTolov hrj ; 

A0. KaXo)? ahei, ^apev, Kal Ka\(o<; op'^^eiraf 
C TTOTepov el Kal KaXd ahei Kal KaXd 6p-)(elrai 
irpoaOwpev r) pr] ; 

KA. Tlpoadcopev. 

A0. Tt h\ dp Ttt Ka\d re ^yovp^vo<i elvai KaXd 

92 



LAWS, BOOK II 

perception of the various kinds of order and disorder 
in movement (which we term rhvtlim and harmonv), 
to us men the very gods, who were given, as we 
said, to be our fellows in the dance, have granted 
the pleasurable perception of rhythm and harmony, 
whereby they cause us to move and lead our choirs, 
linking us one with another by means of songs and 
dances ; and to the choir they have given its name 
from the "cheer" implanted therein. ^ Shall we 
accept this account to begin with, and postulate 
that education owes its origin to Apollo and the 
Muses? 

CLIN. Yes. 

ATH. Shall we assume that the uneducated man 
is without choir-training, and the educated man fully 
choir-trained ? 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH. Choir-training, as a whole, embraces of courst 
both dancing and song. 

CLIN. Undoubtedly. 

ATH. So the well-educated man will be able both 
to sing and dance well. 

ci.iN. Evidently. 

ATH. Let us now consider what this last statement 
of ours implies. 

CLIN. Which statement ? 

ATH. Our words are, — " he sings well and dances 
well " : ought we, or ought we not, to add, — " pro- 
vided that he sings good songs and dances good 
dances " .'' 

CLIN. We ought to add this. 

ATH. How then, if a man takes the good for 

' Here x'*P^^ is fancifully derived from X'>P<'> "joy." For 
similar etymologies, see the Cratylut, passim, 

93 



PLATO 

/rat ra alay^pa alcrxpa ovt(o<; avrol<; -x^prjTai ; 
^eXrtov o toiovto^ TreTraihevfievo'i r)fuv earai rrjv 
)(op6tav re koI fiovaiKrjv 09 av tw fiev a-cofxari Kai 
rfj (f}(ovp TO hiavorjdev elvai KaXov iKav(0'i vTnjperelv 
hvvrjOfj CKciaTOTe, X^^PV ^^ f^V "''Oi"? fcaXol'; firjBe 
ixiafi ra firj xaXd, rj \elvo^ 09 av t^ fxev (pfovfj 
Kai TU) cTco/jLaTi fir) irdw 8vvaT6<; tj KaropOovv rj 
D SiavoeiTat,^ tj] Bk rjSovjj kuI Xvirr) KUTopOoi, ra 
fiev daTra^o/jLevo^, oaa KoXd, rd hk Bua)(€paLvcov, 
oTToaa fiTj KaXd ; 

KA. rioXu TO Siacpepov, o) ^ev€, \€y€i<; Ti]<i 
TTaiheia^. 

A0. OvKOVV el fikv TO KOXOV (phr}<i T€ Kol 

op-)(_^'](je(ii^ Trepi •yiyvuxTKOp.ev rpei^ 6vre<i, lafiep 
Kul TOP TreiraiSevfxevnv re Kai drcaihevTOv 6pdai<i' 
el he dyvoovfiev 'ye tovto, ov8' ei Tt? iraihela's ecrrX 
E (f)uXaKr} Kai ottov SiayiyvwcrKeiv dv irore hvvai- 
fieSa- dp" ovx ovtq)^ ; 

KA. OvTCO /Jiev OVV' 

A0. TauT* dpa fieTa rovd^ tj/jlIv av, Kaddirep 
Kvcrlv Ixyevovaai'i, SiepeuvrjTeov, a^V/^^ "^^ KaXov 
KaX fieXo<i Kar ^ a>8r]v Kai op^va-Lv. el 8e ravO^ 
r)/j,d<i hia^vyovra olxn'^aeTai, fidraio'^ 6 /xeTa raiid 
■q/jLiv irepX 7rac8eia<i 6p6rj<; elO' ' KX\r)viKr]<i eXre 
^ap^apiKr]<; X0709 dv elr). 

KA. Nat. 

Ae. ]Llev Tt Be 8rj to koXov xPV 4>dvai ayrjl^^ 

rj /ie'Xo? elvat Trore ; ^epe, dv8piKr]<; yjrvxv'i ^^ 

655 TTOvoa exofJ.ev7)(; ^ Kai 8eiXi]<; ev Tol<i avrol<i re Kai 

XaoL<; dp dfjboia rd t€ (j;^/;yu,aTa Kai rd (pdeyfjuara 

^v/x^aiveL yijvecrOai ; 

' j; Siavoe'nai Badhani, Sohanz : fj Siauoelv^a^ MSS. 
94 



LAWS, BOOK II 

good and the bad for bad and treats them accord- 
ingly ? Shall we regard such a man as better trained 
in choristry and music when he is always able both 
with gesture and voice to represent adequately that 
which he conceives to be good, though he feels 
neither delight in the good nor hatred of the bad, — 
or when, though not wholly able to represent his 
conception rightly by voice and gesture, he yet keeps 
right in his feelings of pain and pleasure, welcoming 
everything good and abhorring everything not good ? 

CLIN. There is a vast difference between the two 
cases. Stranger, in point of education. 

ATM. If, then, we three understand what con- 
stitutes goodness in respect of dance and song, we 
also know who is and who is not rightly educated ; 
but without this knowledge we shall never be able 
to discern whether there exists any safeguard for 
education or where it is to be found. Is not 
that so? 

CLIN. It is. 

ATM. What we have next to track down, like 
hounds on the trail, is goodness of posture and tunes 
in relation to song and dance; if this eludes our 
pursuit, it will be in vain for us to discourse further 
concerning right education, whether of Greeks or 
of barbarians. 

CLIN. Yes. 

ATH. Well then, however shall we define goodness 
of posture or of tune? Come, consider: when a 
manly soul is beset by troubles, and a cowardly 
soul by troubles identical and equal, are the postures 
and utterances that result in the two cases similar ? 

* Kar' Ritter, England : xal MSS. 

• ^xoMC"^* Stephens, Ast : 4pxoft.iyris MSS. 

95 



PLATO 

KA. Kai TTfo)"?, ore ye firjSe ra ■)^pd)ixara ; 

A©. KaXw? 76, 0) eralpe' aXX' ev yap /lovaiKrj 
Kai axvP'O-ra fiev Ka\ fieXr] evecrri, irepl pvdfxor 
Kal apfjLoviav ovarj<i t^? fxovaiKrj'^, coare eupvd/u.ov 
fxev Kal cvdp/jLO<TTOv, ev'xpwv 8e fii\o<i rj ayrjixa 
ouK eariv arretKacravTa Mairep oi ■^opoSiSdaKoXoi 
direiKCL^ovaiv opdw^ (^OeyyecrOai' to he tov BeiXov 
T€ Kal dvhpeiov a'^rjp.a rj /j,eXo<; eari re Kal 6p66!)<; 
B rrpoaayopeveiv e^^f ra fxev rSyv dvhpeloiv xaXd, 
TO. rwv BeiXcov 8e aicrxpd. Kal iva Srj ^/; fxaKpo- 
Xoyla TToXX-q Tt? yiyv-qrai Trepl ravd^ r]/xlv uTravTa, 
aTrXeo? eario ra fxev dpeTrj<{ e^o/iei^a "v/^t/^^? 77 
(Toifxaro^, eiT€ avrrj^ elre rivb^ cIkouo^;, ^vp^travra 
(T'^rjfxara re /cat fxeXr) KaXd, to. 8e Aca/cia? av 
Toviai'TLov airav. 

KA. 'Op66t)<; re irpoKoXel Kal ravd' tj/mv ovrwi 
ex^iv diTOKeKpicjOw ra vvv. 

A0. Ext hr) roSe' irorepuv drravre'i irdffai'i 
C xopeiai^ 6/xoiox; x^^P^f^^^' V ttoXXov Set ; 

KA. Tov TTavrb'i fiev ovv. 

Ae. Tt rror av ovv Xiyco/xev ro ireTrXavrjKoi; 
^fids elvai ; irorepov ov ravra iari KaXd rjfj,iv 
rrdaiv, rj rd /jlcv avrd, dXX' ov hoKelravrd eh'ai ; 
oil yap TTov epel ye ri<; co? wore rd rrj<{ KaKi'a<; rj 
dperr}<i KaXXiova X^P^^l^^"^^' <"^^' '^^ avr6<; fxev 
Xaipei Tot9 T^<f fioxOrjpia^; (TX'lH'O-f^i'V, 01 8' dXXoi 
evavria ravrr/f; ^lovar) rivi. Kai roi Xeyovai ye 
01 irXetarot povcrLKr}^ opdorrjra ecvai rrjv rj8ovt]V 



* "Music" comprises both dance and song (including 
instrumental accompaniment), whether executed by single 

96 



LAWS, BOOK II 

CLIN. How could they be, when even their 
complexions differ in colour? 

ATM. Well said, my friend. But in fact, while 
postures and tunes do exist in music,^ which deals 
with rhythm and harmony, so that one can rightly 
speak of a tune or posture being "rhythmical" or 
"harmonious," one cannot rightly apply the choir- 
masters' metaphor "well-coloured" to tune and 
posture ; but one can use this language about the 
posture and tune of the brave man and the coward, 
and one is right in calling those of the brave man 
good, and those of the coward bad. To avoid a 
tediously long disquisition, let us sum up the whole 
matter by saying that the postures and tunes which 
attach to goodness of soul or body, or to some image 
thereof, are universally good, while those which 
attach to badness are exactly the reverse. 

CLIN. Your pronouncement is correct, and we 
now formally endorse it. 

ATH. Another point : — do we all delight equally 
in choral dancing, or far from equally .'' 

CLIN. Very far indeed. 

ATH. Then what are we to suppose it is tiiat mis- 
leads us? Is it the fact that we do not all regard 
as good the same things, or is it that, although they 
are the same, they are thought not to be the same? 
For surely no one will maintain that the choric per- 
formances of vice are better than those of virtue, or 
that he himself enjoys the postures of turpitude, 
while all others delight in music of the opposite 
kind. Most people, however, assert that the value 
of music consists in its power of affording pleasure 

performers or by groups (xoptla). The " postures" are those 
of the dancer, the " tunes" those of the singer. 

97 



PLATO 

D rat? ■^v^al'i Tropl^ovaav Svvafxiv dXXa tovto 
fiev ovr€ uveKTov ovre oaiov to Trapdnrav cpdeyj- 
eaOat. rohe he fidWov et«09 irXavav rjij,d<i. 

KA. To TTOtOV ; 

A0. 'EvreiS^ iJ.ifii]fiara Tpoircov ecnl to, irepl 
Ta? ;)(;opeta9, iv irpd^eai re rravTohaTrai^ '^t,<yv6- 
fieva Koi TV)(^at^, /cat r^Oeai Kal pLiixxjaecn ^ hi- 
e^Lovrwv eKaarwv, ol<; fj,ev dv Trpof Tpoirov rd 
prjdivTa rj fieXaiSrjdivTa rj Kal ottuxtovv 'x^opev- 
Oevra y Kara <^vaiv rj Kara edo<i rj KaT d/xcf^orepa, 
E T0UT0U9 fiev Kal rovroi<; ')(^aipeiv re Kal eiraivelv 
avrd Kal ir pocra'yopeveLv KaXd dvajKaiov, ol? B' 
dp irapd ^vaiv rj rpoirov i] riva ^vvrjOeiav, ovre 
yaipeiv huvarov ovre eiraLvelv ala^pd re rrpocr- 
ayopeueiv. 0I9 S" dv rd fiev t% (fivaeca opdd 
^vp,/3aivr}, rd 8e t% avvr]d€ia<i ivavria, rj rd fiev 
rrjf; avvr)6eia<; opdd, rd 8e t^9 cf)vaeQ)<i ivavria, 
ovroi Br) Tat9 TjBovac<i roix; iirac'vovi evavriovi 
656 Trpocrajopevovaiv rjBea yap rovrcov cKaara elvai 
(f)aai, TTOvrjpd Be, Kal ivavrlov dWcov ov<; ol'ovrat, 
(f)pove2v al<T-)^vvovrai p,ev KLveladai rw aco/xarc rd 
roiavra, ala')(yvovrai Be aBeiv &)9 drro(^aiv6p,evoi 
Ka\d perd aTrovBrjf, ■)(aLpovcn Be Trap avrols- 

KA. OpOorara Xeyei';. 

A&. Moil' ovv ri ^Xd^rjv ead^ i]vrLva (f)epet rw 
"Xaipovri rrovrjpia'i rj a^i^p^acnv rj p,eXecrcv, rj riv 

* Ht/x-nffefft some MSS. : fxifiii/xaat other MSS., Zur. 



^ i.e. music is commonly judged solely by the amount of 
pleasure it affords, without any regard to the quality of the 
pleasure. The Athenian proceeds to show how dangerous a 

98 



LAWS, BOOK II 

to the soul.^ But such an assertion is quite intoler- 
able, and it is blasphemy even to utter it. The fact 
which misleads us is more probably the following — 

CUN. What ? 

ATH. Inasmuch as choric performances are repre- 
sentations of character, exhibited in actions and 
circumstances of every kind, in which the several 
performers enact their parts by habit and imitative 
art, whenever the choric performances are congenial 
to them in point of diction, tune or other features 
(whether from natural bent or from habit, or from 
both these causes combined), then these performers 
invariably delight in such performances and extol 
them as excellent ; whereas those who find them 
repugnant to their nature, disposition or habits 
cannot possibh' delight in them or praise them, but 
call them bad. And when men are right in their 
natural tastes but wrong in those acquired by 
habituation, or right in the latter but wrong in the 
former, then by their expressions of praise they 
convey the opposite of their real sentiments ; for 
whereas they say of a performance that it is pleasant 
but bad, and feel ashamed to indulge in such bodily 
motions before men whose wisdom they respect, or 
to sing such songs (as though they seriously 
approved of them), they really take a delight in 
them in private. 

CLIN. Very true. 

ATH. Does the man who delights in bad postures 
and tunes suffer any damage thereby, or do those 

doctrine this is : music, he maintains, should not be used 
merely to pander to the low tastes of the populace, but 
rather treaieil as an educational instrument for the 
elevation of public morals. 

99 



PLATO 

(i)(f)e\eiav av rol^ TTpo<i Tavavria ja^ rjhova^ 
diToSexofxevoif; ; 

KA. El/C09 76. 
B A0. YioTepov eiKO^ rj koI avayKotov Tavrov 
eivai birep orav rt? 7rov7}pot<; rjOecrL ^vvoiv kukwv 
dvd pcoircov fiT) /jicafj, X^^PV ^^ diroSexofievo^, \}ri<yTj 
8e &)<? eV TraiSid^ fioipa, oveipcoTrcov avTov ttjv 
fJLO'xP'qpLav ; Tore Ofioiovadat Si] ttov dvdyKr) tov 
Xatpovra, OTTOTepoi^ dv -x^aipr], idv dpa Koi iirai- 
velv ai(TXvpr}Tai. Kal rot tov toiovtov ti fxeli^ov 
dyaOov rj kukov (f>alfxep dv i)p,lv eic 7rdar}<i dvdyKi)^ 
•yiyvecrd ai ; 

KA. A.OK(b fiev ovBev. 
A©. "Oirov Bi] vofiot Ka\(o<; elal Kelfievoi rj Kal 
et? TOV eTreira xpovov eaovTai <Trepl> ^ rrjv irepi 
rd<i Moucra? iraiheiav re koX iraiScdv, oloi-Leda 
i^iaecrdac T049 noirjTiKol^, 6 tl Trep dv avrov top 
TToirjTrjV iv ttj TTOiijcrec repirr) pvOfiov 1) /xiXov^i r^ 
prjp.aTO'i ixo/jievov, tovto BiBdaKovra Kal toi)? 
Tcov avvo/jLwv 7raiSa9 Kal veov<i iv T0t9 x^P^^'i 
Tt dv TVXXI aTrepyd^eadai 77/909 dperrjv rj /ao^^t;- 
piav ; 

KA. Ov TOt hrj Tovro 76 Xoyov evet* 7rft)9 yap 
av ; 
D A0. NOi' Be ye avro d><i eiroq eiTreiv iv Trd<rai<; 
rals' TToXecnv e^ecrTi Bpdv, ttXijv Kar AXyvmov, 

KA. 'Ei/ AiyvTTTa) Be Br) 7r(W9 to toiovtov <f>^<; 
vevouodeTTjadai ; 

Ae. %avfia Kal dKOvcrai. vdXai yap Bij TTore, 
ft)9 tOiKsv, iyvcoaOt] Trap' avTol'i 0UT09 6 \0709 ov 
id vvv Xeyopev riixel<i, oTt KaXd p.ev crxVP'aTa, 
KaXd Be fieXrj Bel fieTax^ipi'^^aOai Tat9 crvvT]6eiai<i 

100 



LAWS, BOOK II 

who take pleasure in the opposite gain therefrom any 
benefit? 

CLIN. Probably. 

ATH. Is it not probable or ratherinevitable that the 
result here will be exactly the same as what takes 
place when a man who is living amongst the bad 
habits of wicked men, though he does not really abhor 
but rather accepts and delights in those habits, yet 
censures them casually, as though dimly aware of 
his own turpitude ? In such a case it is, to be sure, 
inevitable that the man thus delighted becomes 
assimilated to those habits, good or bad, in which he 
delights, even though he is ashamed to praise them. 
Yet what blessing could we name, or what curse, 
greater than that of assimilation which befalls us so 
inevitably ? 

CLIN. There is none, I believe. 

ATH. Now where laws are, or will be in the 
future, rightly laid down regarding musical education 
and recreation, do we imagine that poets will be 
granted such licence that they may teach whatever 
form of rhythm or tune or words they best like them- 
selves to the children of law-abiding citizens and the 
young men in the choirs, no matter what the result 
may be in the way of virtue or depravity ? 

CLIN. That would be unreasonable, most certainly. 

ATH. But at present this licence is allowed in 
practically every State, with the exception of Egypt. 

CLIN. How, then, does the law stand in Egypt? 

ATH. It is marvellous, even in the telling. It 
appears that long ago they determined on the rule 
of which we are now speaking, that the youth of a 
State should practise in their rehearsals postures and 

• <nf pl> added by Schanz. 



PLATO 

Tov^ iv xat? TToXeai veovi. Ta^dfievoc Se raina 
arra eVrt Koi ottoV arra, a7ri(f)T]i'av ev TOt<; i€poc<i, 
E Kal TTupa TavT ovk i^rjv oure ^(oypdcpoi'i ovr 
aWoL^ oaoi a^yjfxaTa kol ofxoV arra ^ aTrepyd- 
^ovTui KaivoT()/j,€ip ovS' enivoelv dXX' arra rj ra 
irdrpia, ov8e vvv e^eanv, ovr iv rovroi^ ovt iv 
fxovaiKfi ^vfiTrdat]. (TKOirSiv S' evp7]cr€i<i avroOc 
ra jj-vpiocTTov ero'i 'ye'ypafijxeva rj T6TV7ro}p,eva, 
657 ov^ <«''> e7ro9 elrrelv p-vpioarbv dW^ oVto)?, roiv vvv 
BeSrjpn.ovpyrjp.evcov ovre tc KaWiova out ala')(L(o, 
Trjv avrr)v Be Te')(y7}v direipyaaixeva. 

KA. %avp,aarov Xeyei^. 

A@. l^opodercKOv jxev ovv koI ttoXitikov vnep- 
^aW6vT(o<;. aX,X' erepa <pavX' av evpot<i avTodi' 
rovTO S' ovv TO Trepl p^ovaiKrjv dXr)di^ re Ka\ 
d^iov ivvova^, on Bvvajov dp" r]v irepl tmv roiovrtov 
vopioOereioOai ^e^ato)^ 0' lepovv rd ^ fieXr] rd 
TT)v opdorrjra (pvaec Trapexofievw tovto Be Oeov r) 
Oeiov Ttfo? av etrj, KaOdrrep ixel ^aal rd rov 
B iroXvv TovTOv aeaoycfxeva \p6vov p.eXt] t% "IcrtSo? 
7roi7]fjLaTa yeyovevat. a}aO\ oirep eXeyov, el Bvvano 
Ti? eXelv avTcov kuI oirwaovv ttjv opdoTrjra, dap- 
povvra XPV ^^^ vopLOv dyeiv Kal rd^iv avrd' &>? rj 

T?}? Tj8oV7J<i Kal XvTTTJ'i fj^TT/CTf? TOV KUIV^ ^rjTelv 

del /j-ovaiKT) XPV^^^^^ crxeBov ov fieydXrjv riva 
Bvvafiiv ex^t TTpb'i to Biacfydetpai ttjv KaOiepcodel- 
crav ^opetai/ iTriKaXovaa dpxaiorrjTa. ttjv yovv 
eVet ovBafxcb^ eoiKe Bwarr) yeyovevai Bia(f)deipai, 
irdv Be Tovvavriov. 

• li^jLoT &TTa : iiroV 6.rra MSS. : bfiotdifxara Apelt. 

* 6' iepovv ra : Bappovvra MSS. (/cal ^effalas KaOttpovv rh 
England). 



LAWS, BOOK II 

tunes that are good : these they prescribed in detail 
and posted up in the temples, and outside this 
official list it was, and still is, forbidden to painters 
and all otlier producers of postures and representations 
to introduce any innovation or invention, whether in 
such productions or in any other branch of music, 
over and above the traditional forms. And if you 
look there, you will find that the things depicted or 
graven there 10,000 years ago (I mean what I 
say, not loosely but literally 10,000) are no whit 
better or worse than the productions of to-day, but 
wrought with the same art. 

CLIN. A marvellous state of affairs ! 

ATH. Say rather, worthy in the highest degree of 
a statesman and a legislator. Still, you would find 
in Egypt other things that are bad. This, however, 
is a true and noteworthy fact, that as regards music 
it has proved possible for the tunes which possess 
a natural correctness to be enacted by law and 
permanently consecrated. To effect this would be 
the task of a god or a godlike man, — even as in 
Egypt they say that the tunes preserved throughout 
all this lapse of time are the compositions of Isis. 
Hence, as I said, if one could by any means succeed 
in grasping the principle of correctness in tune, one 
might then with confidence reduce them to legal 
form and prescription, since the tendency of pleasure 
and pain to indulge constantly in fresh music has, 
after all, no very great power to corrupt choric forms 
that are consecrated, by merely scoffing at them as 
antiquated. In Egypt, at any rate, it seems to have 
had no such power of corrupting, — in fact, quite the 
reverse. 



103 



PLATO 

C KA. ^aiverai ouT(o<i av ravra eyeiv ix rwv 
VTTO GOV ra vvv Xex^^VTwv. 

KB. 'Ap' ovv 6appovvre<i Xeycofiev rrjv ry 
p,ov(Tifcf} Kal rff TTaiSia fiera ')(^opeLa<i y^pciav 
opOrjV elvai TOiaBe twi rpoirw ; ■^aipofiev orav 
ol(t)jjLeOa ev Trpdrreiv, Kal oirorav ■)(^aip(o/j,€v, 
olo/jieOa €v Trpdrreiv av ; fxSiv ou^ oi/Ttw? ; 

KA. Ovrw fjL€v ovv. 

Ae. Kai fiTjv ev <ye ru> roiovrw ^(aipovTe^ 
r}av)(^iav ov hvvdp.e6a dyeiv. 

KA. "EcTTt ravra. 
D Ae. 'A/j' ovv oi^% r]p,oiv 01 fxev veoi avrol 
"Xopeveiv eroi/xoc, ro Be rcov Trpea/Svrepcov rifiojv 
€K€Lvou<i av 6efopovvre<i Scdyeiv ijyovfieOa rrpe- 
TTovTO)?, ')(aipovre<i r'p eKeivcov TraiSia re Kal 
eoprdcrei, erreiSr) rb Trap" ■^fiiv '^p.d^ e\a(f>pov 
e/cXetTTfi vvv, o rroOovvre^ koI darra^ofievoi riOe- 
/x€v ovrco<i dycova^i rot? Swa/xevoif rj/xaf; on 
p,dXiara elf rrjv veor'qra fiv^p-ij eireyeipeiv ; 

KA. ^ A\rj$earara. 

Ae. M(ov ovv olco/xeOa Kal ko/jliBj) /jLarijv lov 
E vvv XeyofjLevov Xoyov rrepl rSiv eopra^ovroov Xeyecv 
TOi'9 ttoXXoik;, on rovrov Bel ao(f>corarov rjyeiaOai 
Kal Kpiveiv viKav, 09 av r]ixd^ eixppaLveadaL Kal 
'X^aipeiv ort p,dXiara aTrepyd^rjrai ; Bet yap Bi], 
iireLTrep dcpeifieOd ye irai^eiv ev Tot<? roiovroi<;, 
rov TrXeicTTOU? Kal /xdXiara ')(aip€iv irocovvra, 
rovrov fidXcara rifidaOai re Kai, oirep elirov vvv 
Brj, ra viKijrrjpia <f>ep€iv. ap ovk opBoi<^ Xeyerai 
658 Tc rovTO Kal Trpdrroir dv, el ravry ylyvoiro ; 

KA. Ta;i^' dv. 

104 



I 



LAWS, BOOK II 

CLIN. Such would evidently be the case, judging 
from what you now say. 

ATH. May we confidently describe the correct 
method in music and play, in connexion with 
choristry, in some such terms as this : we rejoice 
whenever we think we are prospering, and, con- 
versely, whenever we rejoice we think we are 
prospering? Is not that so? 

CLIN. Yes, that is so. 

ATH. Moreover, wlien in this state of joy we are 
unable to keep still. 

CLIN. True. 

ATH. Now while our young men are fitted for 
actually dancing themselves, we elders regard our- 
selves as suitably employed in looking on at them, 
and enjoying their sport and merry-making, now 
that our former nimbleness is leaving us; and it is 
our yearning regret for this that causes us to propose 
such contests for those who can best arouse in us 
through recollection, the dormant emotions of youth. 

CLIN. Very true. 

ATH. Thus we shall not dismiss as entirely 
groundless the opinion now commonly expressed 
about merry-makers, — namely, that he who best 
succeeds in giving us joy and pleasure should be 
counted the most skilful and be awarded the prize. 
For, seeing that we give ourselves up on such 
occasions to recreation, surely the highest honour 
and the prize of victory, as I said just now, should 
be awarded to the performer who affords the greatest 
enjoyment to the greatest number. Is not this the 
right view, and the right mode of action too, 
supposing it were carried out ? 

CLIN. Possibly 

105 



PLATO 

Ae. 'AW', 0) fiaKapie, fir) tuXv to toiovtov 
KpLV(o/j.ev, aXXa hcaipouvTe^ avro kutu fiiprj 
aKOTToofieda rouphe rivt rpoTTft)" n av, ei iroTe Tt9 
oi/Tco"? ttTrXw? a'ywva deu) ovrivovv, /xrjSev a^opiaa<i 
lxr)T€ yv/xviKov fxrjTe /xovaiKOv /xy'jd' Ittttikov, aWa 
TTavTa? avvayayoov roix; iv rfj TroXet TrpoeiiroL del'; 
viKrjTijpia rov ^ov\6p.evov rjKeiv dycovtovfievov 
r)8ovrj<; irepi p,6vov, 09 S' av Tepyjrr] tou? Oeara^; 
B fiaXiara, p,i]8ev eTnraTTojjLevos (pTivi rpoirw, 
viKTjarj 5e avro rovro oti /naXiara uTrepyaad- 
fi€VO<; KoX KpiOfi Tcbv dycovKTa/xevcov rjScaToq 7670- 
vevar ri ttot dv r)yovpi,eda e« TavT7)<; T7J<i trpop- 
prj(Tea)<i ^vn^alveiv ; 

KA. ToO "nipt Xeyei<; ; 

A0. Ei/co? TTOV rov fxkv Tiva eTriSeiKvvvai, 
KaOdirep "Op,T]po^, payjroiSLav, aWov Be Kidapwhiav, 
Tov he Tiva rpaywhiav, rov 8' av Kojpwhiav. 
ov Oavp,aaTov Se et rt? kuI Oavpara e7n8eiKvv<i 
C p,dXi(TT^ av viKuv rjyolro. rovrcov Br] toiovtwi 
Kal eTepcov dycoviarcov pvpiwv ekOovTWV e^oyiiev 
elirelv Tt<f dv vlkwtj BiKaioi<; ; 

KA. ""Atottov rjpov Ti? yap dv diroKpivoLJo aoi 
TovTO CO? yvov<; dv Trore irplv [dKovaai re] ^ Kai 
Twv dOXrjTcov eKacTcov avrtJKOO^ avrof yeve- 
(jQai ; 

A0. Tt ovv Br] ; ^ovXeade iyoo a(f)a)v Tr]V 
aTOTTOv ravrrjv aTTOKpiaiv diroKpLvcopai ; 

KA Tt p,r]v ; 

A0. Ei p^ev Toivvv rd irdw apifcpd Kplvoi 
TraiBla, Kpivovai tov rd daup^ara eTTiBeiKvvvTa. 
V ydp ; 

' kiovaai re] bracketed by Schanz. 
106 



LAWS, BOOK II 

ATH. But, my dear sir, we must not decide this 
matter hastily ; rather we must analyse it thoroughly 
and examine it in some such fashion as this : suppose 
a man were to organize a competition, without 
qualifying or limiting it to gymnastic, musical or 
equestrian sports ; and suppose that he should 
assemble the whole population of the State and, 
proclaiming that this is purely a pleasure-contest in 
which anyone who chooses may compete, should offer 
a prize to the competitor who gives the greatest 
amusement to the spectators, — without any restric- 
tions as to the methods employed, — and who excels 
all others just in doing this in the highest possible 
degree, and is adjudged the most pleasure-giving of 
the competitors : what do we suppose would be the 
effect of such a proclamation ? 

CLIN. In what respect do you mean ? 

ATH. The natural result would be that one man 
would, like Homer, show up a rhapsody, another a 
harp-song, one a tragedy and another a comedy ; 
nor should we be surprised if someone were even to 
fancy that he had the best chance of winning with a 
puppet-show. So where such as these and thousands 
of others enter the competition, can we say who 
will deserve to win the prize? 

CLIN. An absurd question ; for who could possibly 
pretend to know the answer before he had himself 
actually heard each of the competitors ? 

ATH. Very well, then ; do you wish me to supply 
you with the answer to this absurd question ? 

CLIN. By all means. 

ATH. If the tiniest children are to be the judges, 
they will award the prize to the showman of puppets, 
will they not .'' 

107 



PLATO 

D KA. n&i? yap ov ; 

A0. Eav he 7' oi fi€L^ov<; TratSe?, tov xa? 
KQ)/j.(p8La<i' TpayoySlav Be a'l re Tre-rraiSevfierai tmv 
yvvaiKcov Kol ra vea /xeipaKia Kal a^eSov t'crw*? 
TO irXrjOo'i TrdvTcov. 

KA. "Icro)? 8f]Ta. 

Ae. 'VayjrfpSbv 8e, «aX<M9 'iXmSa /tai '08ya<r€mi' 
^ Tt Tftiv 'HcrtoSetwf StaridevTa, rd^^ av rjfjb€i<; 01 
lyepoPTd y]8c(TTa d/<ovaavT€<; viKav av (^alfxev 
irdfiTToXv. Ti? ovv opdoi^ av vcviktjkoo^ eirj, tovto 
fierd TOVTO' 77 ydp ; 

KA. Nat. 
E Ae, ^rfKov O)? e/jLOiye Kal ufilv dvay/calov eaTi 
(f)dvai Tovs VTTo Tb)v r)p,€Tepo)V rjXiKtwTCOV /cpiOevTa^ 
6pdo)<; av viKUv. to yap ctto? ^ r)p,iv twv vvv Brj 
ird/XTToXv Sofcei tmv iv Tai<; TroXeaiv aTra'o-ai? Kal 
TtavTa-^ov ^e\Ti<TTov yiyveadai. 

KA. Tt jxrjv ; 

A0. ^vyxojpo) Brj TO ye ToaouTov Kal 6700 to?? 
TToWot^, helv Tr)V fiovaiKrjv r/Soifj Kpiveadai, p^rj 
p,evTOt TOiv ye iiriTVX^ovTwv, dWa (T)(^eB6v eKetvrjv 
elvai MoOtray KaXktcrTTjv, ■f]TL<; tou? /SeXTtcrrou? 
659 /cal iKavco<i TreTraihevp.evov<i Tepnei, p,d\iaTa Be 
^Tf? eva TOV dpeT^ Te Kal TraiSeta Bia(f)epovTa. 
Bia TavTa Be dpeTi)^ <^apev BetaOai tou? tovtcov 
KpiTds, OTt T^9 Te dWrjf; peT6)(ov<; avTou<i eivai 
Bel <ppovT](Teco'; Kal Br) Kal t^? dvBpia';. outc yap 
irapd OedTpov Bel tov ye dXrjdi} KpiTrjv Kpiveiv 
uavOdvovTa Kal eKTrXrjTTopevov vtto dopv/3ov tmv 
TToXXooi' Kal T>}? avTov aTraiBevaiafi, ovt^ av yi- 

' »7roj Apelt: iQo% MSS. 
108 



LAWS, BOOK II 

CLIN. Certauily they will. 

ATH. And older lads to the exhibitor of comedies ; 
while the educated women and the young men, and 
the mass of the people in general, will award it to 
the shower of tragedies. 

CLIN. Most probably. 

ATH. And we old men would very likely take 
most delight in listening to a rhapsode giving a fine 
recitation of the Iliad or the Odyssey or of a piece 
from Hesiod, and declare that he is easily the 
winner. Who then would rightly be the winner of 
the prize ? That is the next question, is it not ? 

cLiN. Yes. 

ATH. Evidently we three cannot avoid saying that 
those who are adjudged the winners by our own 
contemporaries would win rightly. For in our 
opinion epic poetry is by far the best to be found 
nowadays anywhere in any State in the world. 

CLIN. Of course. 

ATh. Thus much I myself am willing to concede 
to the majority of men, — that the criterion of music 
should be pleasure ; not, however, the pleasure of 
any chance person ; rather 1 should regard that 
music which pleases the best men and tlie highly 
educated as about the best, and as quite the best 
if it pleases the one man who excels all others in 
virtue and education. And we say that the judges 
of these matters need virtue for the reason that they 
need to possess not only wisdom in general, but 
especially courage. For the true judge should not 
take his verdicts from the dictation of the audience, 
nor yield weakly to the uproar of the crowd or his 
own lack of education ; nor again, when he knows 
the truth, should he give his verdict carelessly 

lOQ 
VOL. I. E 



PLATO 

yvcoaKovra 8i' dvavSpiav Koi SeiX-tap ex ravrov 
aTofxaro^ ovirep tov<; deov^ eTreKaXeaaro fieWoov 

B Kpivetv, CK rovTov yfrev86/u,ei>ov aTT0(^aivea6at, 
pa6v/jL(o<i rrjv Kplcnv ov yap /iiadi]T>]<;, aXXa 
SiSdcTKaXo^:, W9 ye ro BiKaiov, Oearcov /jloXXov 6 
KpiTT)<; KaOi^ei, kuI evavTCO)(T6/xevo<; TOt? rrjv 
■^Sovrjv pr} TrpoarjKovTQ)^ p,t]8e 6pda)<i dvoSiSovai 
Oeajah, [i^ijv yap 8r) rw iraXaiu) re koi 'K\.Xr]viK^ 
vopoi] ^ Kaddrrep 6 XiKeXiK6<; re kuI 'IraXt/eo? 
v6/j.o<i vvv t5> TrXi'jOei rS)v dearSiv imrpeTrcov koI 
TOP viKcopTa hiaKpivwv 'X^eLporoviai'i ScecpdapKe p^ev 

C TOt)? 7roi?/Ta9 avTov^ — Trpo? yap ttjv tmv KpirSiv 
r)hovi]v TToiovaiv ovcrav (f>avXrjv, tocne avTol 
avTOV<i 01 dearal Traihevouac — BLe<f)OapK€ S' avrov 
rov dedrpov rd^ ySovd'^' Seov yap avrov<; del 
^eXrico TOiV avTcov rjOwv dKOvovTa<; /SeXTto) rrfv 
rjhovrjv ta'^eiv, vvv avrol<i hpSiat irdv jovvavriov 
^vp.^aiv€i. rl ttot ovv rjp,tv rd vvv av Siajre- 
pavOevra tw Xoytp arjpuiveiv ^ovXerai ; (TKOTrelcrd^ 
el ToSe. 

KA. To TTolov ; 

A0. ^OKel poi TpLTOv rj Teraprov 6 X6yo<; elf 

D Tavrov Trepi(^ep6pevo<i ijKeiv, eo? dpa naiBeta p,ev 
€(t6 7] TraiScov oXKrj re kuI dywyi] tt/jo? tov vtto 
Tov vopov Xoyov opOov elprjpevov real rol^ emeL- 
KecrrdTOL^ Kal irpea^vrdroL'i St' ip^Treipiav ^vvSe- 
hoypevov dx; oVtoj? 6pd6<; iariv Xv ovv r) "^v^ 
TOV TTftiSo? pr) ivavTLa ')(^aipeiv Kal Xvireladat 
idl^Tjrai T(p vop,(d Kal rot? vtto tov v6p,ov 'rreireia- 
pevoL^, dXXd ^vveTrrjTai yaipovad re Kal Xv- 

* L^l^j' . . . v6fjLCf^ bracketed bj' Eugland. 
lio 



LAWS, BOOK II 

througli cowardice and lack of spirit, thus swearing 
falsely out of the same mouth with which he invoked 
Heaven when he first took his seat as judge.^ For, 
rightly speaking, the judge sits not as a pupil, but 
rather as a teacher of the spectators, being ready to 
oppose those who offer them pleasure in a way that 
is unseemly or wrong ; and tliat is what the present 
law of Sicily and Italy actually does: by entrusting 
the decision to the spectators, who award the prize 
by show of hands, not only has it corrupted the 
poets (since they adapt their works to the poor 
standard of pleasure of the judges, which means 
that the spectators are the teachers of the poets), 
but it has corrupted also the pleasures of the 
audience ; for whereas they ought to be improving 
their standard of pleasure by listening to characters 
superior to their own, what they now do has just the 
opposite effect. What, then, is the conclusion to be 
drawn from this survey ? Is it this, do you suppose ? 

CLIN. What ? 

ATH. This is, I imagine, the third or fourth time 
that our discourse has described a circle and come 
back to this same point — namely, that education is 
the process of drawing and guiding children towards 
that principle which is pronounced right by tiie law 
and confirmed as truly right by the experience of 
the oldest and the most just. So in order that the 
soul of the child may not become habituated to 
having pains and pleasures in contradiction to the 
law and those who obey the law, but in conformity 
thereto, being pleased and pained at the same things 

* Judges at musical and gymnastic contests, like all 
State-officials, took an oath to diacharge their duties with 
fidelity. See further, Bk. vL 764 ft 

III 



PLATO 

TTOv/xevrj rot? avTol<{ Toi/xot? olatrep 6 yepcov, 
E TOVT(0V eueKa, a<t (p8a<i /caXov/xev, 6i/T(o<i fikv 
eTroiBal ral'i y\rv)(^al<i (fiaivovTac ^ vvv 'yeyovevai, 
Trpo? rrjv roiavTrjv rjv Xiyo/j-ev avfMcjicovlav iairov- 
SacTfievai, Bia Be to cnrovBrjv fit] Bvvaadai ^epeiu 
Ta9 T(ov veiov ^frvxa<; naiBiai re Koi wBal ku- 
XecaOai koI TrpuTTeadai, Kaddrrep roi<i Kap-voval 
T€ KoX da6evo)<i lax^vat to, acofiara ev rjSeac real 
660 <74Tiot? Kal TTtofiaac t^v ■)(^pT]crTr)v TreipSivrai, 
rpoipTjv irpoa^epeLV ol<i /xiXei tovtcov, ti)v Be 
TMV TTOvripwv iv drjBeaiv, Xva rr)v p,€V dcnrdi^covTai, 
TT}v Be p,taetv 6pdoi<i eOl^covrai' ravTov Br) kol top 
TTOirjTiKov 6 6pdo<i vo/j,o6eT7]<; iv toi^ Ka\ot<i p>]fiaai 
Kol €TTaiveToi<; Treiaei re koI dvayKuaei p,T] ireidwv 
ra T(op ao)(f)p6vQ}V re koI dvBpeiwv koi Trdvreo^ 
dyaOodv dvBpSiv ev re pvOp,oi<i (rxv/^cira koI , ev 
appoviai^ fieXr] -rroLovvTa 6pdSi<i iroielv. 

B KA. NVV OVV OVTCO BoKOVai <TOL, 7rp09 Af09, S) 

^ei>€, ev Tal<i dWat,<t iroXeai rroielv ; eyoi pev yap 
Kad^ oaov alcrddvop^ai, ttXtjv Trap rjpiv rj irapd 
AaKeBaip,ovloi^ , a av vvv Xeyei^; ouk olBa 
irparTopeva, Kaivh Be arra del yiyvopeva irepi 
re rd^i op^W^'''^ '^^* TtepX ttjv dXXr)v povcriKTjv 
^vpiraaav, ov^ ^'"'o vop^oiv pera^aXX6p,eva d\V 
viro Tivcov drdxTcov rjBovcov, ttoXXou Beovawv tcov 
avTcov elvai <de\> ^ xai Kara Tavrd, co? ai) KaT 
AtyuTTTOv d(f>€pp,7]V€V€i<;, dXX^ ovBeiTOTe riav 
avTcbv. 
C A0. "Apiard y, Si KXeivia. el b' eBo^d aoi & 
ai) Xeyei^ Xeyeiv tw? vvv yiyvopeva, ovk dv Oav- 

1 ^aivovrai: aSrai MSS. , edd. 
» <at\> I add. 

iia 



LAWS, BOOK II 

as the old man, — for this reason we have what we 
call " chants," which evidentlv are in reality incan- 
tations ^ seriously designed to produce in souls that 
conformity and harmony of which we speak. But 
inasmuch as the souls of the young are unable to 
endure serious study, we term these "j)lays" and 
"chants," and use them as such, — ^just as, when 
people suffer from bodily ailments and infirmities, 
those whose office it is try to administer to them 
nutriment that is wholesome in meats and drinks 
that are pleasant, but unwholesome nutriment in 
the opposite, so that they may form the right 
habit of approving the one kind and detesting the 
other. Similarly in dealing with the poet, the 
good legislator will persuade him — or compel him — 
with his fine and choice language to portray by his 
rhythms the gestures, and by his harmonies the 
tunes, of men who are temperate, courageous, and 
good in all respects, and thereby to compose poejns 
aright. 

CLIN. In Heaven's name. Stranger, do you believe 
that that is tlie way poetry is composed nowadays 
in other States ? So far as my own observation goes, 
I know of no practices such as you describe except 
in my own country and in Lacedaemon ; but I do 
know that novelties are always being introduced in 
dancing and all other forms of music, which changes 
are due not to the laws, but to disorderly tastes ; 
and these are so far from being constantly uniform 
and stable — like the Egyptian ones you describe — 
that they are never for a moment uniform, 

ATH. Nobly spoken, O Clinias ! If, however, 1 
seemed to you to say that the practices you refer to 

* i.e. charms or magic formulae, chanted over sick persons 
(or over snakes, EiUhyd. 290 A) : cp. 664 B. 

>i3 



PLATO 

fid^oi/jLi el fjLr] aacf)^ Xeyoov a Biavoovfiai tovto 
CTTotr/cra Kal eiradov a\X' a ^ovXofxai yCyveaOai 
TTCpl [xovaLKrjV, ToiavT arra elirov tacci^, atare 
(Tol Bo^ai ravra e/xe Xeyeiv. Xoihopelv yap 
TrpdyfMaTa dviara Kal iroppw Trpo^e^rjKora 
d/xapTLa^ ovBa/MOt)^ rjBv, avayKalov S' ivioT ioTiv. 
eTreiSi] Be javra ^vvhoKel Kal aoi, (pepe </>?)? Trap' 
t) vfilv Kal TolaSe fxdXXov rj tTapd rot? dXXoL<; 
"KXXriai yiyveaOat rd Toiavra ; 

KA. Tt fl't]V ; 

A0. Ti 6' €4 Kal irapd Tot? dXXoi<i ylyvoiG' ovtco, 
TTorepov avTa KaXXi6vQ)<; oi/Ttw? elvac (f>al/ji€v dv rj 
KaOdirep vvv yiyveTai yiyvofxeva ; 

KA. rioX-v TTOv TO Bia(f)epov, el Kaddirep irapd 
T€ Tolahe Kal Trap rjpuv, Kal en Kaddirep eirre's 
av vvv Br) Beiv elvai, ylyvoiTO. 

Ae. ^ipe Bt], ^vvofj,oXoyr)ad)fieda rd vvv. dXXo 
E Tt Trap' vfuv ev irdarj TraiBeia Kal p^vatKrj rd 
Xeyop^evd eari rdBe ; rov^ TroiT^ra? dvayKa^ere 
Xiyeiv eb? o fxev dyado<i dvrjp crdi^pwv oiv Kal 
BiKaio<; €vBai/xQ)v iarl Kal fiaKdpio^, edv re 
fMeya<; Kal l<T-)(ypo^ edv re crfiiKpo<; Kal uadevr]<i 
17, Kal edv ttXovttj Kal fny edv Be dpa irXovrfi 
/xev Kivvpa xe koI M.iBa fidXXov, jj Be dBiKO<i, 
d6Xi6<i t' eVrt Kal dviapco^ ^fj' Kal Ovr dv 
pLvqa aip,iiv, (jiijcrlv vp,tv 6 TToir}Ti]<;, enrep opda><i 
Xeyei, ovt ev Xoyo) dvBpa t ideifirjv, 09 /"■»; 
wavTa rd \ey6p,eva KaXd fierd BiKaioavviri 
TrpaTTOt Kal ktmto, Kal Bi] Kal Btjicdv toi,ovto<; 

* Tyrtaeus xii. 6 ; see Bk. i. 629. Cinyras was a fabled 
king of Cyprus, son of Apollo and priest of Aphrodite. 
Midas, king of Phrygia, was noted for his wealth. 
114 



LAWS, BOOK II 

are in use now, very likely your mistake arose from 
my own failure to express my meaning clearly ; 
probably I stated my own desires with regard to 
music in such a way that you imagined me to be 
stating present facts. To denounce things that are 
beyond remedy and far gone in error is a task that 
is by no means pleasant ; but at times it is unavoid- 
able. And now that you hold tlie same opinion on 
this subject, come, tell me, do you assert that such 
practices are more general among the Cretans 
and the Lacedaemonians than among the other 
Greeks ? 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH. Suppose now that they were to become 
general among the rest also, — should we say that 
the method of procedure then would be better than 
it is now ? 

CLIN. The improvement would be immense, if 
things were done as they are in my country and in 
that of our friends here, and as, moreover, you 
yourself said just now they ought to be done. 

ATH. Come now, let us come to an understanding 
on this matter. In all education and music in your 
countries, is not this your teaching.? You oblige 
the poets to teach that the good man, since he is 
temperate and just, is fortunate and happy, whether 
he be great or small, strong or weak, rich or poor ; 
whereas, though he be richer even " than Cinyras 
or Midas," ^ if he be unjust, he is a wretched man 
and lives a miserable life. Your poet says — if he 
speaks the truth — "I would spend no word on the 
man, and hold him in no esteem," who without 
justice performs or acquires all the things accounted 
good ; and again he describes how the just man 

"5 



PLATO 

661 0)V opeyotTO e'^'^vQev larayiGvo^, d8iK0<; Be 
&v fiijre To\fia> opSiv (f>6vov al fiaToevra firjre 
viK(p Oiwv ©prjiKcov Bop€i]v, p,r]T€ dWo avTM 
/xrjBep Tcov Xeyofievwv ayaOcov yiyvono ttotc to, 
yap vTTo roiv iroWoiv Xeyofiera dyada ouk 6pd(b<; 
Xeyerai. Xeyerai, yap &)? dpiarov p-ev vyialveiv, 
hevrepov Be KciWo^i, TpcTOV Be 7rXovTO<;. p,upia 
Be dXKa ayada Xeyerai' Kal yap o^u opav xaX 

B uKOveiv kclI Trdvra oaa e'X^erai rcov aiaOrjcrtoiv 
evaiadi]ra><i e^ety, en Be Kal to iroielv Tvpavvovvra 
6 Ti dv ein9vp.fl, Kal to Br] TeXo? dirdarji; puKa- 
pi6rr]ro<i elvai to irdvra ravra KeKrr]p,evov dddva- 
Tov elvai yev6p,evov on rdj^Lcrra. vp,ei<i Be Kal 
eyd) TTov rdBe Xeyopev, to? ravrd ean ^vpLTcavra 
BiKaioi<i p,€v Kal ocrloi^ dvBpdaiv dpiara KTrjpaTa, 
dBi,KOi<; Be KaKicrra ^vpiravra dp^dpeva diro .t^9 
vyiela<i. Kal Brj Kal to opav Kal to uKoveiv Kal 

C aladdveadai Kal ro Trapdirai' ^fjv p,eyicnov p,ev 
KaKov rov ^vp.iravra ')(^p6vov dOdvarov ovra Kal 
KeKTr]p,ei'0V irdvra rd Xeyopeva dyaOd ttXtjv 
BiKaco(Tvvr)<i re Kal dperri<i uTrdarj^;, eXarrov Be, 
dv o)? oXiyiarov 6 rotovro^ xpovov eTri^wv 17.^ 
TavTa Br} Xeyeiv olp,ac rov<; nap' vpiv Troirjrd^;, 
drrep eyd), ireiaere kuI dvayKdaere, Kal en rovroi<; 
eiropevov<i pvOp,ov<i re koI dpp,ovia<i diroSiBovra^ 
iraiBeueiv ovrco rovs veov<i vp6)v.^ r) yap ; Spare' 

eyd) pev yap Xeyo) aa<j)Q}<; rd p,ev KaKa X€y6p,eva 
dyadd rol^ dBiKOi^ elvai, roi<; Be BiKaioi<; KaKd, 
rd 8' dyadd roi<; fiev dyadoi<; ovrui^ dyadd, rol<i 
Be KaKol<i KaKd. orrep ovv 'r)pop.r)v, dpa ^vp,<f)covov- 
p,ev eyd) re Kal vp^eif ; rj 7T5)<i ; 

* eiri^wv ^ Schanz : iiaC^T) MSS. 
116 



LAWS, BOOK II 

"drives his spear against the foe at close quarters," 
whereas the unjust man dares not "to look upon the 
face of bloody death," nor does he outpace in speed 
of foot "the north wind out of Thrace," nor acquire 
any other of the things called "good." For the 
things which most men call good are wrongly so 
described. Men say that the chief good is health, 
beauty the second, wealth the third ; and they call 
countless other things "goods" — such as sharpness 
of sight and hearing, and quickness in perceiving all 
the objects of sense ; being a king, too, and doing 
exactly as you please ; and to possess the whole 
of these goods and become on the spot an immortal, 
that, as they say, is the crown and top of all felicity. 
But what you and I say is this, — that all these 
things are very good as possessions for men who are 
just and holy, but for the unjust they are (one and 
all, from health downwards) very bad ; and we say 
too that sight and hearing and sensation and even 
life itself are very great evils for the man endowed 
with all the so-called goods, but lacking in justice 
and all virtue, if he is immortal for ever, but a lesser 
evil for such a man if he survives but a short time. 
This, I imagine, is what you (like myself) will 
persuade or compel your poets to teach, and compel 
them also to educate your youth by furnishing them 
with rhythms and harmonies in consonance with this 
teaching. Am I not right ? Just consider : what I 
assert is that what are called "evils" are good for 
the unjust, but evil for the just, while the so-called 
"goods" are really good for the good, but bad for 
the bad. Are you in accord with me, then, — that 
was my question, — or how stands the matter } 

* vfiaiv : rtfjLciy MSS-, edd. 

117 



PLATO 

KA. Ta fxev cfioiye (paivofieOd tto)?, to, 8' ovSa- 

A0. Ap ovv vyieidv re K€KTr]fievov Koi ttXov- 
rov Kul TvpavviSa 8id TeXov<i, kuI en TrpoariOrjfii 
vfiiv la")(i)v 8ia(f)€povcrav Koi dvhpiav fier dda- 
E vaala^, Kol firjSev dWo avTW rcov Xeyofievcou 
KaKOiv elvai yiyvofievov, uBiKiav Se kuI v^piv 
e^ovra iv avr^t jmovov — tov ovto) ^covra i<7co<; 
vfjLO,^ ov ireldu) fir] ouk dpa evhaifxova dX>C 
ddXiov ylyveadai aa^w^ ; 

KA. ^AXrjdearaTa X-eyef?. 

A0. Etev' Tt ovv TO p,€rd tout* elireiv ■^fj,d<i 
^ecov ; dvSpelo^; yap Bt] kuI la^^'pof Koi koXo^ 
Kal irXovaio';, xal iroiwv 6 rl irep iindvfxoi rov 
662 ^lov aTravra, ovx vfilv BoKei, elirep dBcKO-j etrj Kal 
v^pi(TT7]<;, i^ dvdyKtj<; alcT')(^p(ii}<; dv ^fjv ; rj tovto 
fiev tcr&)9 dv avyx^cop^aaire, to ye ala^pw^ ; 

KA. Haw fiev ovv. 

A0. Tt Be ; to Kal KaK&f ; 

KA. OvK dv €Ti rov6' 6p.olw<t. 

A0. Tt Be ; to Kal dr]Bcb<; Kal fMT) ^vfKpepovro}^ 
avT(p ; 

KA. Kal TTw? dv ravrd y' eri ^vyy^wpolfxev ; 

A0. "Otto)? ; el 6eo<; rjfilv, o)? eotKev, &> (piXoi,, 
B Boirj Tt<? <TVfjL<f>Q)VLav, a>9 vvv ye a-)(^eBov aTraBofiev 
air dXXrjXcov. ifiol yap Br] (patverai Tavra oi/tcu? 
dvayKala, tu? ouSe, <w ^iXe KXeivia, Kp^jrij vr]ao<i 
a-a(f)cb<i' Kal vofio6eT7]<; oov ravTrj Treipw/xTiv dv tou9 
ii8 



LAWS, BOOK II 

CLIN. We are, apparently, partly in accord, but 
partly quite the reverse. 

ATH. Take the case of a man who has health 
and wealth and absolute power in perpetuity, — in 
addition to which I bestow on him, if you like, 
matchless strength and courage, together with im- 
mortality and freedom from all the other " evils " so- 
called, — but a man who has within him nothing but 
injustice and insolence : probably I fail to convince 
you that the man who lives such a life is obviously 
not happy but wretched ? 

CLIN. Quite true. 

ATH. Well, then, what ought I to say next ? Do 
you not think that if a man who is courageous, 
strong, beautiful, and rich, and who does exactly as 
he likes all his life long, is really unjust and insolent, 
he must necessarily be living a base life .-' Probably 
you will agree at any rate to call it " base " .'' 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH. And also a bad life ^ ? 

CLIN. We would not go so far as to admit that. 

ATH. Well, would you admit the epithets " un- 
pleasant " and " unprofitable to himself" ? 

CLIN. How could we agree to such further 
descriptions ' 

ATH. ''How.'" do you ask.? Only (as it seems, 
my friend) if some god were to grant us concord, 
since at present we are fairly at discord one with 
another. In my opinion these facts are quite indis- 
putable — even more plainly so, my dear Clinias, than 
the fact that Crete is an island ; and were I a legis- 

^ icoKit (tiv, "to live badly" may mean either "to live 
wickedly " or " to live wretchedly " : Clinias takes it in this 
latter sense. 

119 



PLATO 

T6 TToirjrh'i dvayKd^€Cv (pdiyyecrdat Kal Trai/ra? 
Tovi iv TTJ iroXec, ^ijfiiav re 6\i<yov ixeyianqv 
eimiOevrjv av, et rt? iv rfj ^'wpa (^dey^ano to? 

C elcri Tive<; avOpwrroi TTore TTovrjpol /j,ii>, r/Seoyf Se 
i^oiVT€<;, rj XvaireXovvTa fx€v dWa iarl koX rcepha- 
Xea, ScKatoTcpa Be dWa, koI rroWa drr^ dv napd 
rd vvv Xeyofieva viro re Kprjrcov Kal AaKeSaip,o- 
VLCdv, 0)9 eoiKe, Kal Srj rrov Kal roiv dWwv dvdpcoircov 
8id<f)opa TTeidoifjL dv tou? TTo\lra<; pot <^6eyyea6ac' 
(f>epe yip, <o Trpo? Ato? re Kal ^A7r6X\,covo<;, w 
dpicrroi rwv dvhpwv, el rov<; vop,oderr}aavra<; vp.iv 
avrov<; rovrov<; epoip,e6a deov<;, dp* 6 8iKai6rar6<; 

D ecrri ^io<; TjStaro^, rj 8v ecrrov rive ^lco, olv 6 fiev 
ijBiaro^ o)v rvy)(^dvei, hiKai6raro<i 8' erepo<i ; el 
Brj 8vo (f)alev, epoip.ed^ dv icro)? avrov<; irdXiv, 
elirep 6pOco<i eTravepa>rS)p.ev, 7rorepov<; 8' evBacp,ov- 
earepov<; 'X^pr) Xeyeiv, rov<; rov BiKaiorarov rj rov<i 
rov rfhiarov 8ia^L0Vvra<; ^iov ; el p,ev hrj (paiev 
rov^ rov rjhiarov, droiro^ avrcov 6 \0709 dv 
yiyvoiro- ^ovXofiai, Se fioi fxr) errl 6eS)v Xeye- 
crdai ro roiovrov, aXV eirl Trarepcov Kal vo- 

E p,odercov p.dXXov, Kal p,oi rd epurpocrdev rjpcori]- 
fieva irarepa re Kal vop,o6err]v i^pcorijadco, 6 S" 
elrrero) o)? ^mv rov TjBicrrov ^iov ecrrl p,aKa- 
picoraro^. elra p.erd ravra eycoy^ dv (fialrjv, ^D, 
vdrep, ov')( o)? evBaifxovearara p-e e^ovXov ^fjv ; 
a\X' del 8iaK€Xev6fievo<i ovBev eiravov ^ijv p,e &)? 
BiKaiorara. ravrrj p,ev ovv 6 riOep.evo<i eire vo- 
fw6err]<; etre Kal Ttdrrjp droTro<; dv, oip,ai, Kal 
d'iTopo<i (jyatvoiro rov ^Vfi(l>covovvrQ)<; eavrS) Xeyeiv. 
el 8^ av rov BiKaiorarov evBaifioveo'rarop diro- 



LAWS, BOOK II 

lator, I should endeavour to compel the poets and 
all the citizens to speak in this sense ; and I should 
impose all but the heaviest of penalties on anyone in 
the land who should declare that any wicked men lead 
pleasant lives, or that things profitable and lucrative 
are different from things just ; and there are many 
other things contrary to what is now said, as it seems, 
by Cretans and Lacedaemonians, — and of course by 
the rest of mankind, — which I should persuade my 
citizens to proclaim. For, come now, my most ex- 
cellent sirs, in the name of Zeus and Apollo, suppose 
we should interrogate those very gods themselves 
who legislated for you, and ask: "Is the most just 
life the most pleasant; or are there two lives, of 
which the one is most pleasant, the other most 
just?" If they replied that there were two, we 
might well ask them further, if we were to put the 
correct question : " Which of the two ought one to 
describe as the happier, those that live the most just 
or those that live the most pleasant life ? " If they 
replied, "Those that live the most pleasant life," 
that would be a monstrous statement in their mouths. 
But I prefer not to ascribe such statements to gods, 
but rather to ancestors and lawgivers : Imagine, then, 
that the questions I have put have been put to an 
ancestor and lawgiver, and that he has stated that the 
man who lives the most pleasant life is the happiest. 
In the next place I would say to him this : " O 
father, did you not desire me to live as happily as 
j>ossible? Yet you never ceased bidding me con- 
stantly to live as justly as possible." And hereby, 
as I think, our lawgiver or ancestor would be shown 
up as illogical and incapable of speaking consistently 
with himself. But if, on the other hand, he were to 

121 



PLATO 

(fyalvoiTO /3lov elvai, ^rjrol ttov 7ra9 av 6 ukovoov, 
oifiai, Ti ttot' iv avT(p to t/)? I'jSovrjf; KpetrToi 
ayaOov re kuI Ka\ov o vo/j,o6eTr)^ ^ evov iiratvel ; 
663 Tt 7a/3 hr) BiKaio) ')(^a}pil^o/jL€vov r]8ovrj<i ayaOov av 
yiyvoiTO ; (pepe, «Xeo9 re kol €7raivo<; tt/so? 
avd pcoTToyv re ica\ deoiv ap iarlv ayadov fiev 
KOL Kokov, a7)he<i Be, hvaKXeia he rdvavTia ; 
rjKLara, <u <\>i\e vofiodera, (pi](TO/jLev. dXXa to 
/jLi']T€ Tiva dhiKelv p^rjre viro Tivo<i dBifcetaOat ficov 
drjBe^ pev, dyadov he rj icaXov, to, S' erepa rjSea 
p.€P, alaxpd 8e koI KUKa ; 
KA. Kat 7rw<? ; 

A0. OvKOVV 6 pev p,r) ^^copl^cov \0709 rj8v re 
Kal SiKaiov [«al dyaOov re koX KaXov^ ^ vcOavo^i 
B 7', el p.rjSev erepov, 7rp6? to riva iOeXeiu ^jju top 
oaiov KOI hiKaLOV ^iov, atare vopoOejT) ye alcTX'''^- 
to<? Xoyoiv Kol ei>avTi(oraTO<i 0? dv p,r) (pfj ravra 
ovT(a<i e)(^ecv' ovSel'i yap dv eKwv edeXoi ireiOeadai 
TTpdrreLv touto oto) p.T) to j^aipeLv tov Xvireladai 
irXeov eTrerai. aKOToScvLav ^ he to noppoyOev 
opwpevov irdaL re (o? eirof elirelv Kal hr) kuI Tot? 
Tratcrl Trape'^ef vopo6eTr)<; h' rjplv ho^av 6t9 
TovvavTLOv TOVTOV KaTaaTTjCTei to <tk6tos dcjyeXoiv, 
C Kal ireiaei dp,oi<i ye ttiu? edeai Kal e7raii>oi<; Kal 
\6yoi<i 0)9 €(TKtaypa(f)rjp,€va rd hiKaid eari Kal 
dhiKa, rd pev dhtKa tm tov hiKaiov evavriw * 
(paivopeva, e« p.ev dhiKOv Kal kukov eavrov dew- 

1 voMoSeTTjy Badham, Schanz: vti/ioj MSS. 
^ [wal . . . Ka\(>»'] bracketed by England. 

• (TKOToZivlav England : ffKoroSiviSy MSS. 

* ifwrlcf Apelt : ivavrlwi MSS. 



LAWS, BOOK II 

declare the most just life to be the happiest, every- 
one who heard him would, I sup|>ose, enquire what 
is the good and charm it contains which is superior to 
pleasure, and for which the lawgiver praises it. For, 
apart from pleasure, what good could accrue to a just 
man ? " Come, tell me, is fair fame and praise from 
the mouths of men and gods a noble and good thing, 
but unpleasant, while ill-fame is the opposite ? " " By 
no means, my dear lawgiver," we shall say. And is 
it unpleasant, but noble and good, neither to injure 
anyone nor be injured by anyone, while the op|>osite 
is pleasant, but ignoble and bad ? 

CLIN. By no means. 

ATH. So then the teaching which refuses to separ- 
ate the pleasant from the just helps, if nothing else, 
to induce a man to live the holy and just life, so 
that any doctrine which denies this truth is, in the 
eyes of the lawgiver, most shameful and most hateful ; 
for no one would voluntarily consent to be induced 
to commit an act, unless it involves as its consequence 
more pleasure than pain. Now distance has the 
effect of befogging the vision of nearly everybody, 
and of children especially ; but our lawgiver will 
reverse the appearance by removing the fog,* and by 
one means or another — habituation, commendation, 
or argument — will persuade people that their notions 
of justice and injustice are illusory pictures, unjust 
objects appearing pleasant and just objects most 
unpleasant to him who is opposed to justice, through 
being viewed from his own unjust and evil stand- 

* i.e. the lawgiver will make justice clear and distinct by 
bringing citizens close up to it: discipline in just actions 
¥nll give tliem a near and true view of it, and correct the 
wrong iuipression due to distance. 

123 



PLATO 

povfxeva, r}hea, ra Be BcKata arjhearaTa, ex Be 
SiKaiou irdvra ravavria iravri] 7rpo<i aficpoTepa. 

KA. ^aiverat. 

Ae. Ttjv 8 aXrjdeiav t?)? Kpiaeca^ irorepav 
Kvptcorepav eJvai ^Stfiev ; irorepa ttjv t^? ^et,popo<i 
i/rfT^?}? rj Trjv Trj<i ^€\riovo<; ; 

KA. ^Avajfcalov rrov ttjv Tr)<i ap^eivovo^. 
D A0. ^ Xva'yKOLOV apa top ahiKOv ^iov ov povov 
ala'xia) fcal pLO-)(dr}p6T€pov, aWa koX arjhearepov 
rfi aXrjOeta tov BiKauov re eivai kuX oatov ^lov. 

KA. KivBvvevei, Kara ye tov vvv \6yov, S) 
(ftiXot. 

A0. No/xo^tT^y? Be ov Ti Kal a-piKpov o0e\o9, el 
KoX p,7i TOVTO rjv ovrco'i exov, <y? xal vvu avro 
VPVX ^ ^0709 ^X^''^' c*""^/' T'' '(^*' ciWo CToXprjaev 
av eV ayaOw yfrevBeaOai irpo^ tov? veov<;, eariv 6 
T4 Tovrou y{reuSo<: \vaLre\earepov av eyjrevcTaTo 
TTore Kal Bvvdpevov p,ak\ov <7reLdeiv> ^ TToielv 
E 1.17] ^ta dW eKovra'i <TrdvTa'i> ^ Tvdvra to, 
BiKaia ; 

KA. KaXoi/ pev r] d\rj6eia, o) ^eve, ftal povipov 
€0iK€ pr)v ov pdhiov elvat ireideLv. 

A0. \\ilev TO pevTOc ^lBcovlov ^ pv$oX6yt]pa 
pdBiov eyeveTO ireideu', ovto)<; diridavov ov, Kal 
dWa pvpia. 

KA. Ylola ; 

A0. To crirapevTwv voTe oBovtcov OTrXlraf i^ 

avTbiv (fivvai. xai rot, p,eya 7' earl vopodeTy 

664 irapdBeiypa tov Treiaeiv 6 Ti av i'Trt,')(eipfi Ti<i 

TrelOeiv rd^ tmv vewv yfrvx^^, wcrre ovBev dWo 



1 <Tr€i0fii'> added by Stephens, Schanz. 
* <»a»'Tos> added by Euseb. 



124 



LAWS, BOOK ir 

{)Oint, but M-hen seen from the standpoint of justice, 
both of them appear in all ways entirely the opposite. 

CUN. So it appears. 

ATH. In point of truth, which of the two judg- 
ments shall we say is the more authoritative, — that 
of the worse soul or that of the better ? 

CLIN. That of the better, undoubtedly. 

ATH. Undoubtedly, then, the unjust life is not 
only more base and ignoble, but also in very truth 
more unpleasant, than the just and holv life. 

CLIN. It would seem so, my friends, from our 
present argument. 

ATH. And even if the state of the case were 
different from what it has now been proved to be by 
our argument, could a lawgiver who was wortli 
his salt find any more useful fiction than this 
(if he dared to use any fiction at all in addressing 
the youths for their good), or one more effective in 
persuading all men to act justly in all things willingly 
and without constraint ? 

CLIN. Truth is a noble thing. Stranger, and an 
enduring; yet to persuade men of it seems no easy 
matter. 

ATM. Be it so ; yet it proved easy to persuade 
men of tlie Sidonian fairy-tale,^ incredible though it 
was, and of numberless others. 

CLIN. What tales? 

ATH. The tale of the teeth that were sown, and 
how armed men sprang out of them. Here, indeed, 
the lawgiver has a notable example of how one can, 
if he tries, persuade the souls of the young of any- 

* About Cadmus ; cp. Eep. 414 C. 

' fjLtvTot ZiSwciot' England : ^ikv rov "iiZmvlov MSS. 

125 



PLATO 

avTOV hel (TKOTTovvra avevpiaKeiv r) ri Trelcra^ 
/Mcyiarov ayaOov epydaaiTO av ttoXiv, tovtov Se 
Trepi TTaaav fjurj-^avriv eupiaKeiv ovtiv av ^ TTore 
TpoTTov rj rotavrr} ^vvoiklo Tracra irepl tovtoov ev 
KoX ravTov on fidXicTTa (f^deyyoiT del 8ia ^iov 
TravTo^; ev re w8at<i kuI p,vdoL<i kol \6yoi<;. el S' 
ovv dWrj irfi SoKec t) ravrr], irpo^ Tuvra ovB€l<; 
<j)06vo<i dfi(f>ia^r)T7]aai tw Xoyw. 

B KA. 'AX,X' ov fioi (fyaiverai 7rpo9 ye ravra 
hvvaadai rjficiyv dfjLcpKT^tjrrjaai ttot' av ovB€Tepo<i. 
A0. To fieTo. TOVTO Tolvvv efx.ov dv etrj Xeyeiv. 
^rjfil yap aTravra? Selv eirdZeiv r/jet? 6vTa<i tou? 
')(^opov<; en veaa ovcrat<; rat? '^vxcu'i fcal d'waXa'i'i 
Toyv 7rai8cov, rd re dWa Ka\d keyovrw; Trdvra 
oaa Bie\T]\vOa/jL€v re koX en SieXOoi/xev dv, to Be 
KecfydXaiov aurcov tovto ecrrw tov ainov tjSkttov 
re Kal dpicnov vtto Oewv /3lov Xeyeadai ^daKovre^ 

C dXrjdearaTa epovfiev dp.a kuI fMaXXov ireiaofiev 
ov<i Bel ireideiv r) edv dXX(o<i ircof (^deyywfieda 
Xeyovre<i. 

KA. l^vyx'^^PV^^ov a Xeyei<i. 
A0. YlpoiTOv /j,€v Tolvvv 6 yiovaoiv %opo9 6 
TraiBiKo^ opOorar dv elaioL irpSiro^ rd TOiavra 
eh TO fiecrov acroiJievo^ dTrdarrj (nrovBfj koI oXt] ttj 
TToXei, BevTepoi; Be 6 P'i'X^pi rpidKovra eroiiv, tov re 
Tlaidva eTriKaXovfievo'; fidpTupa TOiv Xeyofievcov 
dXi]Oeta<; rrepi Kal Toi<i veot^ 'iXeuv /xeTa ireidoii'i 

D yiyveaOai iTTev)(^6fievo<i. Bel Be Brj Kal €ti t/o/tou? 

^ SvTtv' &v Sclianz : Svnva MSS. 

^ At Spartan festivals it was customary to have three 
choirs — of boys, young men, and older men. 

126 



LAWS. BOOK II 

thing, so that the only question he has to consider 
in his inventing is what would do most good to the 
State, if it were believed ; and then he must devise 
all possible means to ensure that the whole of the 
community constantly, so long as they live, use 
exactly the same language, so far as possible, about 
these matters, alike in their songs, their tales, and 
their discourses. If you, however, think otherwise, 
I have no objection to your arguing in the opposite 
sense. 

CLIN. Neither of us, I think, could possibly argue 
against your view. 

ATH. Our next subject I must handle myself. I 
maintain that all the three choirs ^ must enchant the 
souls of the children, while still young and tender, 
by rehearsing all the noble things which we have 
already recounted, or shall recount hereafter ; and 
let this be the sum of them : in asserting that one 
and the same life is declared by the gods to be both 
most pleasant and most just, we shall not only be 
saying what is most true, but we shall also convince 
those who need convincing more forcibly than we 
could by any other assertion. 

CLIN. We must assent to what you say. 

ATH. First, then, the right order of procedure 
will be for the Muses' choir of children to come 
forward first to sing these things with the utmost 
vigour and before the whole city ; second will come 
the choir of those under thirty, invoking Apollo 
Paian^ as witness of the truth of what is said, and 
praying him of his grace to persuade the youth. 
The next singers will be the third choir, of those 

• i.«. "the Healer." Cp. the medicinal sense of iraifip, 
" enchant," in B4 above. Music is to be a medicine of the soul. 

127 



PLATO 

TOV<i VTrep TpicLKovra err) fJ.€)(pi tcjv i^tjKOvra 
yeyovoTa^ aSeiv roix; Se fiera ravra, ov yap en 
SvvaTol (pepeiv (pBd<i, fiv6o\6yov^ irepl rcov avroiv 
rjdo)V Blo. 9eia<i (Prj/xij^; KaTaXeXelifidai. 

KA. Aeyet? 84, w ^eve, riva^ Tovrov<; tov<; 
•X^opoix; rov<{ Tpirov<i ; ov yap jravv ^ui'Cefiev 
aa(f)cti<; o ri Trore ^ovXei (ppd^eiv avT&v irepi. 

A0. Kat fir]V elcri ye ovroi (j')(eBov cov X^P^^ °*' 
irXetcnoi rtov e/XTrpoadev epprjOijaav \6ycov. 
E KA. OvTTQ) /j,€fiadi]Kafjiev, dXX' en aat^ecrrepov 
rreipco cfypd^eiv. 

A0. Ktiro/jLev, el /xepvi'ipeda, Kar dpx^^ twi' 
Xoycov ft)? Tj ^v(Ti<i dirdvTwv tcov vecop hidirvpo^ 
ovcra rjorvxi-dv ovx o'ia re ayeiv ovre Kara to 
(TO) pa ovre Kara rrjv ^covi]v ecr), (fideyyoiro S' del 
draKTO}!; Kal ir-qhCprj' rd^ecof; 8' al'adrjaiv rovrav 
dp,(f)OTepa>v t&v dWoiv pev ^(ocov ovBev €(f)drrT0ir6, 
T) Be dvOpdiTTOv (f)vcri(; exoi p-ovri tovto' rfi Br) t% 
665 KLvrj(reco<i rd^ei pv9p,o<i 6vop,a elrj, ttj 8' av rrj^ 
<f)Q)vPj^, rov re 6^eo<i dp,a Kal /3apeo<; avyKepavvv- 
pevcov, dppovia ovopa •wpocayopevoiTO, ^opeta Be 
TO ^vvap<^oTepov KXrjOeii]. 6€0v<i 5' e(pap€v eXe- 
ovvTa^ r)p,d^ avyxopevrdi; re Kal x^PVy^^f VP'^^ 
BeBcoKevai rov re ^ AiroXkwva Kal ^\ov!ja<i, Kal Br} 
Kal rpirov e(f)ap,ev, el p,ep,vi]peOa, Aiovvaov. 

KA. JI(o<; 5' ov p,ep,vrjpe6a ; 

Ae. 'O p,ev roivvv rov 'AttoXXwi/o? Kal twu 
Movacbv %o/D09 eipr)VTai, top Be rpirov Kal rov 
B XoiTTOv X^P^^ dvdyKJ] rov ^tovvcrov XeyeaOai. 

KA. t\.oi<i Bi] ; Xiye' p,dXa yap dro7ro<i ylyvoir* 



128 



LAWS, BOOK II 

over thirty and under sixty ; and lastly, there were 
left those who, being no longer able to uplift the 
song, shall handle the same moral themes in stories 
and by oracular speech. 

CLIN. Whom do you mean, Stranger, by these 
third choristers ? For we do not grasp very clearly 
what you intend to convey about them. 

ATH. Yet they are in fact the very people to 
whom most of our previous discourse was intended 
to lead up. 

CUN. We are still in the dark : tr>' to explain 
yourself more clearly still. 

ATH. At the commencement of our discourse we 
said, if we recollect, that since all young creatures 
are by nature fiery, they are unable to keep still 
either body or voice, but are always crying and 
leaping in disorderly fashion ; we said also that none 
of the other creatures attains a sense of order, bodily 
and vocal, and that this is possessed by man alone ; 
and that the order of motion is called '*' rhythm," 
while the order of voice (in which acute and grave 
tones are blended together) is termed " harmony," 
and to the combination of these two the name 
"choristry " is given. We stated also that the gods, 
in pity for us, have granted to us as fellow-choristers 
and choir-leaders Apollo and the Muses, — besides 
whom we mentioned, if we recollect, a third, 
Dionysus. 

CLIN. Certainly we recollect. 

ATH. The choir of Apollo and that of the Muses 
have been described, and the third and remaining 
choir must necessarily be described, which is that ot 
Dionysus. 

GUN. How so t Tell us ; for at the first mention 

129 



PLATO 

av c5<? 7' i^ai,(f>v7](; aKOvcravri Aiovvaov Trpec/SvTcov 
')(ppo'i, el dpa ol uirep TptaKovra kuI rrevr-qKovra 
he yeyovore^; cttj fie^pt k^rjKOVTa avrw ■)(op€V- 

A0. ' A\r]de(TTaTa /j-euroi Xeyeti;. Xoyov 8r] 
Bel 7rpo<i Tavra, olfiai, otttj tovto evXoyov ovrco 
yiyuofievov av yiyvono. 

KA. Tt fjbrjv ; 

A0. A/a' ovv rjfilv to. ye efnrpoaOev ofioXo- 
yeiTUi ; 
C KA. ToO irepi ; 

Ae. To Belv irdvra dvBpa Kal nalSa, eXevdepov 
Kcu BovXov, OfjXvv re Kal dp'peva, Kal oXjj rfj iroXei 
oXrjv rrjv ttoXiv avTrjv avrrj eTrdBova-av fir] wave- 
ddal, TTore ravra a BieXrjfXvO afiev dfico^ ye tto)? del 
fiCTa^aXXofieva Kal 'rrdvTa)<i irapexop-eva ttockc- 
Xiav, ware aTrXtjariav elval riva tcov Vfivcav rol^ 
dBov(Ti Kal T)BoVt]V. 

KA. ricij? B' ovx ofioXoyolro av Beiv ravra ovrca 
TrpdrreaOai ; 
D Ae. Ylov Brj Tovd^ f]p,lv TO dpia-TOV rrjq TroXeo)?, 
rfXiKiai^ re Kal d/xa (^povrjaecTL TnOavcoraTov ov 
TMv ev rf) TToXei, aBov rd KoXXicna fxeyiaT av 
i^epyd^OLTO dyadd ; rj tovto dvo7]T(o<i ovTco'i 
d(f)t']<TO/jL€v, Kvpioorarov av etr] rSiv KaXXicrrcov re 
Kal dx^eXiiMdiTdTwv <pBcov ; 

KA. 'AXX' dBvvaTov TO fiedievai, &<; ye rd vvv 
Xey6[xeva. 

A0. T\6i<; ovv Trperrov av eirj tovto ; 6 pare ei 
TTJBe. 

KA. n^ Bi] ; 

Ae. Ha? 'rrov yiyvofievo^ Trpea/3vT€po<i okvov 
130 



LAWS, BOOK II 

of it, a Dionysiac choir of old men sounds mighty 
strange, — if you mean tliat men over thirty, and 
even men over fifty and up to sixty, are really going 
to dance in his honour. 

ATH. That is, indeed, perfectly true. It needs 
argument, I fancy, to show how such a procedure 
would be reasonable. 
CLIN. It does. 

ATH. Are we agreed about our previous proposals ? 
CLIN. In what respect ? 

ATH. That it is the duty of every man and child 
— bond and free, male and female, — and the duty of 
the whole State, to charm themselves unceasingly 
with the chants we have described, constantly 
changing them and securing variety in everv way 
possible, so as to inspire the singers with an insati- 
able appetite for the hymns and with pleasure therein. 
CLIN. Assuredly we would agree as to the duty of 
doing this. 

ATH. Then where should we put the best element 
in the State, — that which by age and judgment alike 
is the most influential it contains, — so that by sing- 
ing its noblest songs it might do most good ? Or 
shall we be so foolish as to dismiss that section 
which possesses the highest capacity for the noblest 
and most useful songs? 

CLIN. We cannot possibly dismiss it, judging from 
what you now say. 

ATH. What seemly method can we adopt about it ? 
Will the method be this ? 
CUN. What ? 
ATH. Every man as he grows older becomes 

^ Xoptvaovffiv MSS. : xop^^"""'^ Zur. 



PLATO 

7r/j09 Ta<; cJSa? /i-ecrTO?, Kal 'y^aipet tc T^ttov irpaT- 
Tcov TOVTO Kal dvdyKr](i yiyvo/xevrj^; aiayyvoir av 
E fidXXov, o(TQ) 7rp6cr^vTepo<i Kal (TO)(f>pov€(rrepo<i 
yiyverai, roato jxdWov. dp ovy ovtco<; ; 

KA. OVT(0 /jL€V ovv. 

A0. OvKovv ev dedrpw ye Kal 7ravTOLoi<i dv- 
0p(OTroi<; aSeiv ecrTftj? 6pd6<i en jjudWov ala-)(yvot,T' 
av. Kal Tavrd 7' el KaOdrrep ol irepl vLkt)^ X^P^' 
dy COVINS fie uoi Tre(^u>i'aaK'qK6re<i lcy)(yol re koa. 
dairoi dvayKd^oiVTO aSeiv ol toiovtoi, travrdTraai 
TTov dr)8(o<; re Kal ala)(^i'VTr]\(ji)'i aSovre^ dtrpodv- 
fi(0<; dp TovT epyd^ocvTO. 
666 KA. ' AvayKaiorara fxevroi \eyei<s, 

A0. Ilw? ovv avTOv^ Trapafivdrjao/j.eda Trpodv- 
fxov<; eivai tt/jo? ra? ftj8a9 ; dp" ov vopLodeTrjaofjiev 
irpMTOv jxev tou? iralha'; fiexpt- erwv OKTWKaiheKa 
TO Trapdirav olvov firj yeveadai, hihdaK0VTe<; eu? 6v 
XPV "^^P ^'^'' "^^P o'X^ereuetv et? re to crco/xa Kal ttju 
'^vx,']v, TTplv €7rl Tou? TTovov^ eyx^ipelv iropeveadai, 
TTjv e/nfiavT] ev\a^ovjj,evot e^iv tcov veayv jxerd he 
TOVTO oXvov fiev Brf yeveaOai rov fxeTplov pe'x^pi 

B TpiaKovTa ircov, p,e6ri<i he Kal TcoXvoivla^ to 
Trapdirav rov veov d'jTe')(e(Tdai' rerrapaKovra he 
eiTi^aivovra irtov, ev Tot? ^vacnrLoi<i evwx^Oevra, 
KaXelv T0U9 re dWov<; 6eov<i Kal hrj Kal ^lovvaov 
irapaKaXelv eh rr]v rwv Trpecr^vrcov reXerrjv dp,a 
Kal rraihidv, fjv rol<; dvd pdoiroi'i eTTLKOvpov t% rov 
y}]pco^ avcrrr)p6Tr)T0<; ehoaprjcraro [rov olvov^ ^ 
(j)dpfiaKov war dvrj^dv Tjfid<;, xal hvcrOvfiiaii 
Xrjdr) 2 yiyvecrdai fxaXaKcorepov e« CTKXijporepov 

C TO T^9 -^v')(ri<i ^]6o^, Kaddirep eh irvp (Tihrjpov 

* [rhv oh'ov] I bracket (so too England). 



LAWS, BOOK II 

reluctAnt to sing songs, and takes less pleasure in 
doing so ; and when compelled to sing, the older he 
is and the more temperate, the more he will feel 
ashamed. Is it not so ? 

cuN. It is. 

ATH, Surely, then, he will be more than ever 
ashamed to get up and sing in the theatre, before 
people of all sorts. Moreover, if old men like that 
were obliged to do as the choristers do, who go 
lean and fasting when training their voices for a 
competition, they would assuredly find singing an 
unpleasant and degrading task, and they would 
undertake it with no great readiness. 

CLIN. That is beyond a doubt. 

ATH. How then shall we encourage them to take 
readily to singing ? Shall we not pass a law that, in 
the first place, no children under eighteen may 
touch wine at all, teaching that it is wrong to pour 
fire upon fire either in body or in soul, before they 
set about tackling their real work, and thus guarding 
against the excitable disposition of the young ? And 
next, we shall rule that the young man under thirty 
may take wine in moderation, but that he must 
entirely abstain from intoxication and heavy drink- 
ing. But when a man has reached the age of forty, 
he may join in the convivial gatherings and invoke 
Dionysus, above all other gods, inviting his presence 
at the rite (which is also the recreation) of the elders, 
which he bestowed on mankind as a medicine potent 
against the crabbedness of old age, that thereby we 
men may renew our youth, and that, through 
forgetfulness of care, the temper of our souls may 
lose its hardness and become softer and more 

* A^«p Burges, Bamet : A^^jf MSS. 

^35 



PLATO 

ivredevra TrjKo/xevov,^ koX ovto}<; evirXaaroTepov 
eivai ; TrpwTov fiev Srj Bcaredel^ ovrca eKacrTO<; 
ap ovK av iOeXoi Trpodvixorepov ye, rjrrov aia-)(y- 
vo/jL€vo<;, OVK iv TToWot^ aX.V iv ixerpioL^, kcu ovk 
€v a\\oTpLoi<i oKX" iv otKeioi^, dSeiP re Kal o 
TToWaKi^ elprjKaixev iiraZeiv ; 

KA. Kai TToXv J€. 

A0. Et9 /jb6v ye TO irpodyeiv toIvvv auroix; 
D p,eTe')(eiv ij/xlv wSrjf; ovto<; 6 T/>o7ro9 ovk av iravTa- 
iraaiv da-^-^fiayv yiyvono. 

KA. Ou8ayu,aJ9. 

A0. Ylolav he oiaovcriv ^ ol dvSpe<i [(fxovfjv rj 
Movaav] ;^ rf hrfKov oti irpeirouarav avToc<s del* 
ye rtva. 

KA. Do)? yap oij ; 

A0. Tt9 dv ovv irpe-noi Oeiot^ dvSpdaiv ; dp dv 
17 rwv -yopoiv ; 

KA. 'H/A6t<> yovv, (o ^eve, Kalo'iSe ovk dWrjv dv 
Tiva hvvalp.e6a m8t)v rj rjv iv rol^ ')(ppol<; ip,d6o/J,ev 
^vvrjdeL<i aheiv yevopbevoi. 

A0. EtVoTO)? 76* ovTft)? yap ovk eTrij^oXoi 
E yeyovare tt}? KaWicrrr)^ oJS%. (rrpaTOTrehov yap 
TToXireiav eyere, dXX! ovk iv darecn KaTqyKrjKOTcov, 
aX,X.' olov dOpoov<i rrdyKov^ iv dyeXrj ve/.wp,evov^ 
(f)op^d8a<; Tov<; veov^ KeKTTjade. Xa^oiv he v/xoyv 
ov8el<i TOP avrov, irapd joiv ^vvvo/jlcov cnrdaaf; 
a(f)6hpa dypiaivovra Kal dyavaKrovvTa, Ittttoko- 
fiov Te irreaTqaev Ihia Kal irathevei yfr^ywv re Kal 
r)fjbep(iiiv Kal Trdvra irpocrrjKOVTa dTTohihoi/q rfj 

^ Tr)K6iJ.(vov : ytyv6ixfvov MSS., edd. 

* otcTovoiv : aXffovffiv MSS. : Viffovaiv Porson, Schanz. 

* [(pwviiv ^ MoCffoi'] bracketed by W.-MoUendorff. 



LAWS, BOOK II 

ductile, even as iron when it has been forged in 
the fire. Will not this softer disposition, in the 
first place, render each one of them more ready 
and less ashamed to sing chants and '"incantations" 
(as we have often called them), in the presence, 
not of a large company of strangers, but of a small 
number of intimate friends ? 

CLIN. Yes I much more ready. 

ATH. So then, for the purpose of inducing them 
to take a share in our singing, this plan would not be 
altogether unseemly. 

CLIN. By no means. 

ATH. What manner of song will the men raise ? 
Will it not, evidently, be one that suits their own 
condition in every case ? 

CLIN. Of course. 

ATH. What song, then, would suit godlike men ? 
Would a choric song ^ ? 

CLIN. At any rate. Stranger, we and our friends 
here would be unable to sing any other song than 
that which we learnt by practice in choruses. 

ATH. Naturally ; for in truth you never attained 
to the noblest singing. For your civic organisation 
is that of an army rather than that of city-dwellers, 
and you keep your young people massed together 
like a herd of colts at grass : none of you takes his 
own colt, dragging him away from his fellows, in 
spite of his fretting and fuming, and puts a special 
groom in charge of him, and trains him by rubbing 
him down and stroking him and using all the means 

^ i.e. a song suited for singing by a chorus at a festival or 
other public occasion. 

* atl Schanz : Sel MSS. 



PLATO 

nraiooT po^'ia, oOev ov /xovov ayado^ av (npaTida- 
667 TT79 eiTj, TToXiv Se koI clo-tt} hvvd/xevo^ SioiKeiv, ov 
Of) KUT dpx^'i e'LTTO/uev Twv Tvpraiov iroXefiiKwv 
eivai TToXe/xiKcoTepov, TeTuprov dperfj^ dW ov 
TrpoiTOv Trjv dvhpiav /crr]fj,a Ti/jLcovra del koI irav- 
Tay^ov l8i(oTai<; re kuI ^v/jiTrdar} TroXei. 

KA. OvK o78a rjp,cov, & ^ive, otttj ttuXiv av 
T0U9 vop,odera<i ^avXlt^ei^ 

A0. OvK, Si f^ade, Tvpodkyoiv tovtw tov vovv 
opoi rovTO, eXirep' dX,V 6 X0709 oirr] (pepei, Tavrrj 
TTopevMfieda, el ^ovXecrOe. el yap e%Oyu,ei/ Mover av 
T)}? rcov ')(^op6)v KaXXlo) Kal t^? ev TOtii koivoU 
B dedrpoi<;, TreipcofieOa dTroSovvai rovTOif ou? (f)ap,ev 
eKeivrjv fiev ala-^vveadai, ^rjTelv 8e ^rt? KaXXCaTr] 
TavTrjf; Koivcovelv. 

KA. Tldvv ye. 

A0. OvKovv irpcoTov fiev Set ToSe ye V7rdp)^eiv 
airamv oaoL<i crvfxTrapeiTeTai ti<; ^dpi^;, 77 rovro 
avro fiovov avTov ro (nrovha lorarov eivai rj Tiva 
opdoTTjra rj to rptrov wcjieXeiav ; olov Br) Xeyto 
eBecBrj p,ev KaX iroaei Ka\ ^vp.irdar] rpoc^fi -nape- 
ireadai pev rrjv ')(dpiv, fjv rjSovrjv av irpoaeiTTOLpbev 
C fjv Be opdoTTjrd re Kal d)(f)e\eiav, oirep vyieivoi 
TMV Trpoacfiepopevcov Xeyopbev eKaaToie, tovt avTC 
elvai ev avTOi^ Kal to opdoiarov. 

KA. Tldvv pev ovv. 



^ The following passage (dowti to 669 B) deals with the 
considerations of which a competent judge must take account 
in the sphere of music and art. He must have regard 
to three things — "correctness" (the truth of the copy to 
the original), moral effect or "utility," and "charm" or 

136 



LAWS, BOOK II 

proper to child-uursiug, that so he may turn out not 
only a good soidier, but able also to manage a State 
and cities — in short, a man who (as we said at the 
first) is more of a warrior than the warriors of 
Tyrtaeus, inasmuch as always and everywhere, botli 
in States and in individuals, he esteems courage as 
the fourth in order of the virtues, not the first. 

CLIN, Once again, Stranger, you are — in a sort of 
a way — disparaging our lawgivers. 

ATH. It is not intentionally, my friend, that I do 
so —if I am doing it ; but whither the argument leads 
us, thither, if you please, let us go. If we know of 
a music that is superior to that of the choirs or to 
that of the public theatres, let us try to supply it to 
those men who, as we said, are ashamed of the 
latter, yet are eager to take a part in that music 
which is noblest. 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH.^ Now, in the first place, must it not be true 
of everything which possesses charm as its con- 
comitant, that its most important element is either 
this charm in itself, or some form of correctness, or, 
thirdly, utility ? For instance, meat and drink and 
nutriment in general have, as I say, for concomitant 
that charm which we should term pleasure ; but as 
regards their correctness and utility, what we call 
the wholesomeness of each article administered is 
precisely the most correct element they contain. 

CLIN. Certainly. 

pleasure. Though this last, by itself, is no criterion of 
artistic excellence, it is a natural "concomitant" (in the 
mind of the c impetent judge) when the work of art in 
question possesses a high degree of both "utility" and 
" correctneas." 



PLATO 

A0. Kal /jLTjv Kal rfj naOrjcrei vapaKoXovdeiv 
fiev TO 76 T^? ^aptTO? Tr)v rjSovtjv, rr/v Se 6p06T7}ra 
Kal rrjv uxjieXeiav xal to ev koI to Ka\oi<i rrjv 
dXi]0€iav elvai rrjv airorekovaav. 

KA. KaTlV OVTCOS. 

D A©. Tt 8e ; rf) jwv ofioLcov epyaala, ocrat 
ri^vai elKacrriKai, ap^ ovfc, av rovro i^epyd^covrai, 
TO fiev i)hovqv iv avTol^ yiyveadai, irapeiTOfjievov 
iav yiyvriTaL, X^P''^ avro BiKaioraTOv av ecrj 
TTpoaayopeveiv ; 

KA. Nat. 

Ae. Triv 8e ye opdoTr^rd irov tmv roiovroiv 17 
laoTrj^ dv, ft)9 eVt to irdv elirelv, i^epyd^oiro tov 
Te ToaouTOv Kal tov tolovtov irporepov, aW' ov-^ 
rjSovq. 

KA. KaXw?. 

A0. OvKOvv rjhovfi KpiVOtT dv fiovov eiceivo 
E 6p6a)<i, fi7]T€ Tivd oi)(f)e\eiav /mrjTe dXrjOeiav /xt;t€ 
ofJiotoTyTa d'jTepya^o/j.evov irapexeTai, /xrjS' av ye 
^Xd/Brjv, aXX' avTOv tovtov fxovov evexa ylyvoiTO 
TOV ^vfiTrapeTTOfievov Tot? dXXoL^, tt)? ^a'piTO?, 
Tjv 87} KdXXiaTd Ti9 ovo/iidaai dv -qSovriv, OTav 
/MTjBev avTrj tovtcov iiraKoXovdrj ; 

KA. ^A^Xa^Tj Xeyei<; tjBovtjv fiovov. 

A0. Nat, Kal TraiStdv ye elvai Tr}v avTTjv 
TavTTjv Xeyco t6t€ OTav prjTe Tt /SXaTnTj fxrjTe 
ai(f)eX7} cnrovBrj^ rj Xoyov a^cov. 

KA. ^AXtjOecTTaTa Xeyei<i. 

A0. 'A/3' ovv ov irdaav p,ip,r)(Tt.v (pal/xev dv 6k 

t5)v vvv Xeyofievcov rjKLaTa rjhovfi TrpoaijKeiv xpi- 

668 veaOai Kal 86^7) fir) dXrjdei, koI Brj Kal irdaav 

laoTTjTa ; ov yap el T(p hoKel rj [/x?^] ^ Tt? ;;^ai/)€t, 

138 



LAWS, BOOK II 

ATH. Learning, too, is accompanied by the ele- 
ment of charm, which is pleasure ; but that which 
produces its correctness and utility, its goodness and 
nobleness, is truth. 

CLIN. Quite so. 

ATH. Then how about the imitative arts which 
produce likenesses ? If they succeed in their pro- 
ductions, should not any concomitant pleasure which 
results therefrom be most proi^erly called " charm " ? 

CLIN. Yes. 

ATH. But, speaking generally, the correctness of 
these things would be the result not, primarily, of 
pleasure, but of equality in respect of both quality 
and quantity.^ 

CLIN. Excellent ! 

ATH. Then we shall rightly judge by the criterion 
of pleasure that object only which, in its effects, 
produces neither utility nor truth nor similarity, nor 
yet harm, and which exists solely for the sake of 
the concomitant element of charm, — which element 
will best be named " pleasure " whenever it is accom- 
)>anied by none of the other qualities mentioned. 

CLiN. You mean only harmless pleasure. 

ATH. Yes, and I say that this same pleasure is 
also play, whenever the harm or good it does is 
negligible. 

CLIN. Very true. 

ATH. Should we not then assert, as a corollary, 
that no imitation should be judged by the criterion 
of pleasure or of untrue opinion, nor indeed should 
any kind of equality be so judged? The reason 

* i.e. a " likeness " must be " equal " to its original both 
in character and size. 

' Ifi'ft] bracketed by Cornarius. 

»39 



PLATO 

TO) TOi ^ TO 76 IgOV ICTOV OvBe TO <TUfA,fl€TpOV &V 60/ 

<Tv/xfM€Tpov o\&)9, aX\a t& aXy^Oel TTavrayv fxd- 
Xiara, ^Kiara Se oraovv aWo). 

KA. Tiavrdiracn /xev ovv. 

A0. OvKovv fxovaiKrjv ye irdadv (f>afx€v el- 
KaaTiKijv T€ etvai koI fiijxrjTiKijp ; 

KA. Tt fxrjv ; 

A0. ' H/cicrr' dpa orav Tf<? fiovaiKijv rjBovfj (pf) 

Kpiveadai, tovtov diroSeKTeov top \6yov, Koi 

^rjTtjTeop ijKiaTa ravTrjv &><? cnrovhaiav, el ri'i 

B dpa TTOv Kol yCyvoiTO, dW' eKeivrjv ttjp e')(^ov(Tav 

Trjv OfxoioTTjra tw rod koXov fjLi/jLrjfiaTi. 

KA. ^ AXr^dearara. 

A0. Kat TOWTOt? hr] TOt<; rrjv KaWiariqv (phrji 
re ^rjTovai /cal ^lovcrav ^rjTtjTeou, &)? eoiKev, ov)( 
r^Tt? rjBela, aXV ^Tt? opdij. /jLL/jLr](Te(o<; yap ^v, O)? 
€(pafj,ev, opdoTTji;, el to /j.i/jLr]Oev oaov re Koi olov 
rjv diroTeXoiTO. 

KA. n C09 7ap 01/ ; 

A0. Kal /x^i" toOto 76 7ra9 av 6/j,o\oyol vepl 

T^9 fiovaiKrj<;, on trdyra rd irepl avTijv iari 

C TTOiijfiaTa fiifiTjaL^; re koX dTreiKaaria. koX tovto 

ye /jlwv ovk av ^vixiravres ofxoXoyolev TTOirjTat, re 

KoX uKpoaraX koX vtroKpirai ; 

KA. Kal /j,dXa. 

A0. Aet Bt) KaG' eKaarov ye, o)? eoiKe, yiyvd)- 
(TKeiv ruiv Troirj/xdrcov, orirTore eart, rov fieXXovra 
«.v nvTO) jxrj dfxaprrjaeadaL. firj yap yiypaxTKCov 

1 r^ rot Schmidt : ry MSS. 
140 



LAWS, BOOK II 

why the equal is equal, or the symmetrical sym- 
metrical, is not at all because a man so opines, or is 
charmed thereby, but most of all because of truth, 
and least of all for any other reason. 

ciON. Most certainly. 

ATH. We assert, do we not, that all music is 
representative and imitative? 

CLIN, Of course. 

ATH. So whenever a man states that pleasure is 
the criterion of music, we shall decisively reject his 
statement ; and we shall regard such music as the 
least important of all (if indeed any music is im- 
portant) and prefer that which possesses similarity 
in its imitation of the beautiful. 

CLIN. Very true. 

ATH. Thus those who are seeking the best sing- 
mg and music must seek, as it appears, not that 
which is pleasant, but that which is correct ; and 
the correctness of imitation consists, as we say, in 
the reproduction of the original in its own proper 
quantity and quality. 

CLIN. Of course. 

ATH. And this is certainly true of music, as 
everyone would allow, — that all its productions are 
imitative and representative ; ^ that much, at least, 
they would all admit, — poets, audience, and actors 
alike, — would they not? 

CLIN. They would. 

ATH. Now the man who is to judge a poem^ 
unerringly must know in each particular case the 
exact nature of the poem ; for if he does not know 

* Cp. 655 D, above. The music (songs and tunes) of 
firamatic compositions is specially alluded to. 
^ Or musical composition. 

VOL I. t:- I**' 



PLATO 

T171' ovcnav, ri irore ^ovKerai Koi orov ttotc 
eariv etKcov ovrayf;, (t')(o'K^ rrjv ye opdorrjTa Trj<; 
^ov\r](T€(o<; r] koX afiapriav avrov Biayvwaerai. 

KA. ^'X^oXfj' TTW? S" 01) ; 

D A0. 'O Be TO opdoix; fxr] yiyvcoaKwv ap* dv irore 
TO ye ev Koi ro kukm^; Buvarb^ eh] Siayvcovai ; 
\eyco 8' ov Trdvv (ja^(a<i, dW' cahe aa(^e(Trepov 
laco^ dv \e')(deiri. 

KA. Yloi<i ; 

A0. Etcrt Brj TTOV Kara ttjv oyjnv rjfuv direiKa- 
aiai fivplac. 

KA. Nat. 

A0. Tt ovv ; el rt? koI ev tovtoi^ dyvool 
Toiv fie/ntfirj/jievcov o tc ttotc eariv eKaarov 
TMv (Tco/xdrwv, dp' dv ttotc to ye 6p0(o<; avrcov 
elpyaa-fievov yvoirj ; Xeyco Be to TOLovBe, olov tov<; 
dpidfjiov^ \tov crco/iaTO? «at] ^ eKaaToyv tcov fiepwv 
E Ta? <CTe>* 6eaei<; fj e^^t, oaoi t elal Kal ottoIu 
Trap' orrola avTwv Keifieva ttjv irpocrrjKovaav tu^iv 
dTreiXrj(f)e, Kal ert Brj 'x^pco/jLaTa re Kal (T')(^^fMaTa, 
rj TrdvTa TavTa TeTapay/xev(i}<; elpyacTTac. fioiv 
BoKel TaiiT dv iroTe Btayvwval Tf<? to Trapd-rrav 
dyvowv 6 tL ttotc ecTTi to fief^i/jLTj^ievov ^wov ; 

KA. Kat 7rco9 ; 

A0. Tt 5' ; el yiyvuxTKOifJiev oti to yeypajx- 
fievov rj TO 7Te7r\acrfj,evov earTiV dvdpco7ro<;, Kal 
Ta fjiepr) rrdvTa tu eavTov kui ^(^payfxaTa d/ia Kal 
669 (TXV/^CLTa aTTeikri^ev viro Trj<{ Te)(VVt> ^pd ye 
dvayKaiov rjBr] tw TavTa yvovTt Kal eKelvo ctol- 
/jbQ)<; yiyvcoaKCtv, eiTe koKov eiTC oirrj ttotc eXXnTe<i 
av el'r) KdWov<; ; 

^ [rov (TiifiaTos Kol] I bracket, and add <t*> after tcij. 
142 



LAWS, BOOK 11 

its essence, — what its intention is and what the 
actual original which it represents, — then he will 
hardly be able to decide how far it succeeds or fails 
in fulfilling its intention. 

CLIN. Hardly, to be sure. 

ATH. And would a man who does not know what 
constitutes correctness be able to decide as to the 
goodness or badness of a poem .'' But I am not 
making myself quite clear : it might be clearer if 1 
put it in this way — 

CUN. In what way ? 

ATH. As regards objects of sight we have, of 
course, thousands of representations. 

CLIN. Yes. 

ATH. How, then, if in this class of objects a man 
were to be ignorant of the nature of each of the 
bodies represented, — could he ever know whether 
it is correctly executed ? What I mean is this : 
whether it preserves the proper dimensions and the 
positions of each of the bodily parts, and has caught 
their exact number and the proper order in which one 
is placed next another, and their colours and shapes 
as well,— or whether all these things are wrought in 
a confused manner. Do you suppose that anyone 
could possibly decide these points if he were totally 
ignorant as to what animal was being represented .'' 

CUN. How could he? 

ATH. Well, suppose we should know that the 
object painted or moulded is a man, and know that 
art has endowed him with all his proper parts, 
colours, and shapes, — is it at once inevitable that 
the person who knows this can easilv discern also 
whether the work is beautiful, or wherein it is 
deficient in beauty ? 

'43 



PLATO 

KA. IldvT€<; fxevrav, ut^ erro^ elirelv, Si ^eve, to, 
KoKa TOiv ^(ooov iyiyvcocTKOfiev. 

A&. OpdoraTU Xiyei'i. ap ovv ov nrepX ixd- 
arrjv eiKopa koI iv <ypa(^iK^ koL iv fiovcriK^ koI 
TrdvTrj rov /xeWovra ep(f)pova Kpnrjv ecreadac Set 
B Tavra rpia e^^LV, 6 re iari irpoiTOv 'yiyvaxTKeiv, 
€7recTa a)? opOdo^, eiretd^ a)<? ev, to rpirov, eipyaarai, 
ro)v eiKovoov tjtktovv [pTj/xaai, re kuI pbeKeai koX 
Tot? pvOpLolsi] ; ^ 

KA. "Eot/ce jovv. 

Ae. M^ rolvvv dTrelirwiiev \i<yovTe<i to wepl 
rrjv fiovaiKTjv 77 '^^^aXeirov. eTreiBr) yap vfiveiTai 
Trepl avTTjv 8ia(p€p6vT(o^ rj ra? dX\.a<i eiKova^, 
evXa^eia^ 8t} SeiTai TrXettrT??? iraawv cIkovoov. 
dpapTCOv re ydp Ti? fiiyiar dv ^Xdrrroiro, rjdi} 
C KUKa (f)i'\.o(f)povovpevo^, 'X^aXeircoTaTov re alade- 
adai Bid TO T0U9 TroiT/Ta? (pavXoT€pov<; elvai 
TroirjTaf: aiircov rwv Moucrciii/. ov ydp dv eKelvai 
ye e^ap,dproLev iroTe ToaovTOV, Sicne pijfiara 
uvSpcov TtoLrjaaaai to a-')(rjp,a yvvaiKOiv kol pAXo^ 
uTToBovvaL, Kol p,eXo<i iXevdepwv av koX a-')(rjpi,aTa 
^vvOelaat, pv6pov<i BovXcov koX dveXevdepcou irpoa- 
appoTTeiv, ovS" av pvd/j,ov<i Kal (T')(rjp,a iXev- 
depiov VTTodelaaL p,eXo^ r) Xoyov evavTiov diro- 
D Bovvai Toi<{ pv6fioi<;' €ti Be Orjpicov <f)Q)vd<; koI 
dvd pcoTTcov Kal opydvcov Kal iravra^ y}r6(f)ov<i el<i 
TavTO ovK dv 7roT€ ^vvdelev, co? ev tc pipovpLevai. 
^ [^■nna<Tl . . . ^v6fj.ois] bracketed by England. 

* In what follows, the main features censured are — in- 
congruity, when the words, tunes and gestures of an acted 
piece of music are out of harmonj- ; senselessness, when tunes 
and gestures are divorced from words ; barbarousTiess, when 
144 



LAWS, BOOK II 

CLIN. If that were so. Stranger, practically all Oi 
us would know what animals are beautiful. 

ATH. You are quite right. In regard, then, to 
every representation — whether in painting, music 
or any other art — must not the judicious critic pos- 
sess these three requisites : first, a knowledge of the 
nature of the original ; next, a knowledge of the 
correctness of the copy ; and thirdly, a knowledge 
of the excellence with which the copy is executed? 

CLIN. It would seem so, certainly. 

ATH. Let us not hesitate, then, to mention the 
point wherein lies the difficulty of music. Just be- 
cause it is more talked about than any other form of 
representation, it needs more caution than any. The 
man who blunders in this art will do himself the 
greatest harm, by welcoming base morals ; and, more- 
over, his blunder is verj- hard to discern, inasmuch as 
our poets are inferior as poets to the Muses them- 
selves.^ For the Muses would never blunder so far as 
to assign a feminine tune and gesture to verses com- 
posed for men, or to fit the rhythms of captives and 
slaves to a tune and gestures framed for free men, 
or conversely, after constructing the rhythms and 
gestures of free men, to assign to the rhythms a 
tune or verses of an opposite style. Nor would the 
Muses ever combine in a single piece the cries of 
beasts and men, the clash of instruments, and noises 
of all kinds, by way of representing a single object ; 

the thing represented is paltry or uncouth (such as a duck's 
quack) ; virtuosity, when the performer makes a display of 
the control he has over his limbs and instruments, like a 
mountebank or " contortionist." All these are marks of bad 
music from the point of view of the educationist and 
statesman, since they are neither "correct" nor morally 
elevating. 

»4S 



PLATO 

TTOcrjTal S' avOpcoTTivoi a(f)6Bpa ra TOtavra ifi- 
■n\eKOVTe<i koI crvyKVKwvre^ aXoyox; yiXcoT av 
irapaaKevd^oiev tcov avdpcoirccv oaoa ^ cf)r]alv 
'0/3061/9 " Xaj^elv oipav t% Tepy}rio<;-'^ ravrd re 
yap opcoai iravTa KVKOofieva Kol ei' rt ^ BiaaTraxTtv 
oi TToiTjTai pvOpov /lev Kal a-)(rjp,ara fieXov^ 
')(copi<;, \070u9 yjrLXov'i ek /xirpa Ti6ivT€<;, p,eXo<i 
E S' av Kal pvdpov avev prjpdrcov, '\lnXfj KiOapiaei 
T€ Kal avXrjaet 'irpo(T-)(^pciipevoL, iv oI? S^ iray^dXe- 
TTOV dvev Xoyov yiyvopevov pvOpov re koi appoviav 
yLyvu>aK6Lv 6 Tt re /SovXerai Kal oto) eoiKe rS)v 
d^ioXoycov pip,7]p,dT(i)v. dXX inroXa^elv avay- 
Kalov OTi TO Toiovrov ye ttoXXtj^ dypoiKia^ pearrov 
irdv, OTToaov Td-)^ov<; re Kal d7rTaiaia<; Kal (^wvt)^ 
6ripi(i)hov<i a-(f)6Bpa <J£pa^ [(^tXov],^ wctt' avXrjaei 
ye 'X^prjaOac Kal Kidapicret, jrXijv oaov vtto op^V^^^ 
670 re Kal (phrjv ■y^iXw h' eKarepat irdad ri<; dpovaia 
Kal davparovpyia yiyvoir av t?}? ')(p'^(rea><i. rav- 
Ttt pev e'xeL rainr) Xoyov ripel<i he ye oux ^ """^ 
pr) 8el rait Mouaat? rjpMV irpoa-XPV'^^a'i tou? 
r]8ri TpiaKOVTOvrat Kal tcov irevTr^KOvra Trepav 
yeyovoTa'i crKoixovpeBa, aXX.' rt ttotc heX. Tohe 
pev ovv eK tovt(ov 6 X6yo<i r/piv SoKel poi arj- 
paiveiv tjSij tt}? ye 'X^opLKri<; Moi/cr?;? otl ireTrat- 
8eva6ai 8el ^iXriov Tov<i irevT^jKOVTOVTa^, oaoL<; 
B Trep av dSetv irpoarjKrj. tu>v yap pvdpoyv Kal 
TOiv dppovioiv dvayKalov avTol<i ecrrlv evaLcrdr]r(o<i 
ej(^etv Kal yiyvcoaKeLV rj ttco? Tt9 rrjv opdorrjra 
yvooaerai tcov peXoov [cu TrpocrrJKev rj pi] irpoarjKe 
Tov AcopicrTi Kal rov pvOpov ov 6 7rotr}TT)<; avrw 
irpoarjy^ev, 6pO(o<; rj p,i]] ; ^ 

* oaois H. Richards: i<rovs MSS., edd. 
146 



LAWS, BOOK II 

whereas human poets, by their senselessness in mix- 
ing such things and jumbling them up together, 
would furnish a theme for laughter to all the men 
who, in Orpheus' phrase, " have attained the full 
flower of joyousness." For they behold all these 
things jumbled together, and how, also, the poets 
rudely sunder rhythm and gesture from tune, 
putting tuneless words into metre, or leaving tune 
and rhythm without words, and using the bare sound 
of harp or flute, wherein it is almost impossible to 
understand what is intended by this wordless rhythm 
and harmony, or what noteworthy original it repre- 
sents. Such methods, as one ought to realise, are 
clownish in the extreme in so far as they exhibit 
an excessive craving for speed, mechanical accuracy, 
and the imitation of animals' sounds, and conse- 
quently employ the pipe and the harp without the 
accompaniment of dance and song ; for the use of 
either of these instruments by itself is the mark of 
the mountebank or the boor. Enough, then, of that 
matter : now as to ourselves. What we are con- 
sidering is, not how those of us who are over thirty 
years old, or beyond fifty, ought not to make use of 
the Muses, but how tliey ought to do so. Our 
argument already indicates, I think, this result from 
our discussion, — that all men of over fifty that are 
fit to sing ought to have a training that is better 
than that of the choric Muse. For they must of 
necessity possess knowledge and a quick perception 
of rhythms and harmonies ; else how shall a man 
know which tunes are correct ? 

' ft Ti Badham, Schanz: in MSS. 
' <ip^> 1 add, and bracket (pi\ov. 
* l^ . . . fjiii] bracketed by England. 

147 



PLATO 

KA. A77X0V a)9 ov8afjba)<;. 

Ae. FeXoto? yap 6 ye ttoXu? 0^X09 ■^yovfievo<i 
iKav(ti<; yiyvuxxKeiv to t' evapfiocrTov koI evpvdfMOV 
/cat pbrf, oaoi Trpoaaheiv av\(i> ^ koX ^alveiv ev 
C pvdfio) yeyovaac BirjvayKaa-fjLevor ort Se Spaxrc 
ravra ayvoovvre^ avrcov CKaara, ov crvWoyi- 
^ovrai. TO 5e ttov Trpoa-rJKOVTa p,ev e^ov Trap yoteXo? 
opd(a<i e'xei, firj Tcpocri^KOvra he r}ijiapr'qp,ev(a<i. 

KA. ^ AvayKaioTara. 

A0. Tt ovv ; 6 firjBe Tt ttot' ex^t yiyvaxTKcov 
apa, o TL irep eiTro/xev, el)? 6pd(a<i ye avro ex^i' 
yvuxrercu ttotc ev oraiovv ; 

KA. Kal Tt? /xrjxavi] ; 

Ae. Tout' ovv, &>? eoi/cev, avevpi(TKop,ev av ra 
vvVy on Tol'i (f>hoL<i Tjixtv, ov<i vvv TrapaKoXovfiev 
D Kal eKOVTUf Tiva rpoirov dvayKd^op,ev aheiv, u-e^pt 
ye ToarovTOv 7re7rai8ev(rOai a^^Bov dvayKolov, 
p^XP'' ''""^ BvvaTov eivai ^vvuKoXovOelv eKaarov 
Tat? Te ^dcrecri tmv pvdpoiv koI Tat? ;;^o/3Sat9 Tat? 
Tci)V p^Xcov, iva KaOopavre^ rd'i tc dp/jL0VLa<i koI 
TOv<i pv6pov<i eKXeyeadai tg Ta irpoarjKovra oloi 
r (oaiv, a rot? tijXikovtoi^ re koI roi,ovTOi<i aSeiv 
irpeirov, koX ovtq)<; aBoxrc, Kal aBovre^ avroi Te 
r]Bovd<i TO irapaxpVH-^ daiveh ■^Bcovrai Kal toi? 
vea)TepoL<s r)yep,6ve'i rjOwv XPV^'^^^ d(T7raa-p,ou 
E TrpoaijKOvro^ yiyvwvTai. P^XP'' ^^ Tocroinov irat,' 
Bevdevre^: uKpi^earepav av iraiBelav rrj'i eirl to 

^ av\f Badham, Schanz : aurHv MSS. 
I4S 



LAWS, BOOK 11 

CUN. Obviously he caunot know this at all. 

ATH. It is absurd of the general crowd to imagine 
that they can fully understand what is harmonious 
and rhythmical, or the reverse, when they have 
been drilled to sing to the flute or step in time ; and 
they fail to comprehend that, in doing each of these 
things, they do them in ignorance. But the fact is 
that every tune which has its appropriate elements 
is correct, but incorrect if the elements are 
inappropriate. 

CLIN. Undoubtedly. 

ATH. What then of the man who does not know 
in the least what tiie tune's elements are ? Will 
he ever know about any tune, as we said, that it is 
carrect .-* 

CUN. There is no possible means of his doing so. 

ATH. We are now once more, as it appears, dis- 
covering the fact that these singers of ours (whom 
we are now inviting and compelling, so to say, of 
their own free will to sing) must almost necessarily 
be trained up to such a point that every one of them 
may be able to follow both the steps ^ of the rhythms 
and the chords of the tunes, so that, by observing 
the harmonies and rhythms, they may be able to 
select those of an appropriate kind, which it is 
seemly for men of their own age and character to 
sing, and may in this wise sing them, and in the 
singing may not only enjoy innocent pleasure them- 
selves at the moment, but also may serve as leaders 
to the younger men in their seemly adoption of 
noble manners. If they were trained up to such 
a point, their training would be more thorough than 

* i.e. dance-steps and gestures : " chords " nearly equals 
"notes," with which the "steps " should " keep time." 

149 



PLATO 

TrXrjdo^ ^epovari<; elev fieraKe-^eipiajxivoi kol tt}? 
irepX Tov<; Troti/ra? avTou<;. to yap rpirov ovhe 
fila avdyKT) iroirjT'p yiyvcoaKeiv, eWe koXov eire 
firj KoKov TO fMi/MTj/xa, TO S" apixovia<i icaX pvdjiov 
c^eSov avdyKT]' rot? he irdvTa tci. rpia r?}? 
671 iK\oyr)<s eveKa tov KaWiaTOV Kal SevTcpov, rj 
IxrjheTTOTe Ikuvov iiraiBov ytyveadai vioi^ irpo^ 
dpeTr)v. Kol oirep 6 X6709 iv dp)(^a2<; i/3ouXijdr], 
Trjv T(p TOV Aiovvaov %o/3ft) ^oijOeiav iinSel^at' 
KaXa)<; Xeyofiivrjv, et? 8vva/j,iv etprjKe. a-Koircofieda 
8r) el TovO^ ovTO) yeyove. 6opv^(iihr)<i p,ev irov 
^vWoyo^ 6 ToiovTO^ ef dvdyKT]<i Trpoiovcrrj^ t^? 
TTocreo)? iirl fidXXov del ^v/j,^aivei yiyvo/xeva, 
oirep vTreOifieOa KaT dp)(d<; dvayKalov eJvai 
B ylyveadai irepl tmv vvv avyyiyvofjievoiv?- 

KA. ^AvdyKT). 

A0. Ila? he ye avTO<i avTov KOv^oTcpo^; acpeTai 
/cal yeyrjOe re Kal TTappr)a-La<i e/xTriirXaTai Kal 
dvr]Kov(rTia<; iv tcS tolovto) tcov TreXa?, dp')(o)v 5' 
iKavo<i d^tol eavTou re Kal tcov dXXcov yeyovevai. 

KA. Tt fir]V ; 

A0. OvKovv ecpafiev, oTav yiyvrjTai TavTa, 
Kaddirep Tivd aihrjpov, ra? yfrvx^df; tcov ttivovtcov 
hiarrvpovi yiyvofieva^ fiaX6aK(t)Tepa<i yiyveaOai 
C Kal vecoTepa<;, coaTC evaycoyov^ ^v/x^aiveiv tw 
Svvafiivcp Kal etnaTafxevco iraiSeveiv re kuI 
irXdTTeiv, Kaddirep ot rjtrav viai ; tovtov S' 

^ ffvyyiyvojxevwy I yiyvoueyMV MSS. : Kiyofifvatv iiluseb., 
Schanz. 



LAWS, BOOK II 

that of the majority, or indeed of the poets them- 
selves. For although it is almost necessary for a 
poet to have a knowledge of harmony and rhythm, 
it is not necessary for him to know the third point 
also — namely, whether the representation is noble 
or ignoble ^ ; but for our older singers a knowledge 
of all these three points is necessary, to enable them 
to determine what is first, what second in order of 
nobility ; otherwise none of them will ever succeed 
in attracting the young to virtue by his incantations. 
The primary intention of our argument, which was 
to demonstrate that our defence of the Dionvsiac 
chorus was justifiable, has now been carried out to 
the best of our ability. Let us consider if that 
is really so. Such a gathering inevitably tends, as 
the drinking proceeds, to grow ever more and more 
uproarious ; and in the case of the present day 
gatherings that is, as we said at the outset, an 
inevitable result. 

CLIN. Inevitable. 

ATH. Everyone is uplifted above his normal self, 
and is merry and bubbles over with loquacious 
audacity himself, while turning a deaf ear to his 
neighbours, and regards himself as competent to 
rule both himself and everyone else. 

CLIN. To be sure. 

ATH. And did we not say that when this takes 
place, the souls of the drinkers turn softer, like iron, 
through being heated, and younger too ; whence 
they become ductile, just as when they were young, 
in the hands of the man who has the skill and 
ability to train and mould them. And now, even as 

' i.e. the composer, as such, is not concerned with the 
moral (or psychological) etfect of the piece. 



PLATO 

elvat Tov TrXdaTTju rov avrov uicrTrep Tore, top 
djaObv vojJLodeTqv, ov vofiov^ elvai Sel avfiiro- 
TiKOv<i, Swa/xevov; tov eveXiriv Kai 6appa\eov 
CKeivov yiyv6/j.evov kuI avaicr^vvTOTepov rov 
8eovTO<i, Koi ovK idiXovra rd^iv koI to kuto, fj,ipo<; 
aiyT]<; kuI Xojov kol Trocreo)? Kol /xov(rr]^ vtto- 
p.6V€cv, eOiXeiv TroceiP iravra tovtol^ rdvavTia, 
D f^cil elaLovTi T(p /XT] KaXS) Odp'pei, tov kuXXicttov 
hiaixa\ov ixevov ^ <^6^ov elairefXTreiv otov(; t elvai 
fieTo, BiKr]<;, ov alhoi t€ koX aia^vvrjv \6elov 
(f)6^ov] ^ MvofidKu/xev ; 
KA. "Eo-Tt ravra. 

Ae. Toi'Twy hk ye twv vo/jlcov elvai vo/j,o(f>v- 
XaKa<; koI avvSijfiiovpyov^ avToi<; tol"? d9opv^ov<i 

KoX V7](f>0VTa<i TCOV fxrj VT](f)6vTQ)V (TT paTriyOV<i, Q)V 

Bt) ;^w/9t? MOj) Stajiid'^eaOat heivorepov rj 7roXe/xi,oi<; 
elvai /XT) ixercL dp-^ovrwv dOopvfiayv, koX tov av 
fxr) hvvdfxevov iOeXeiv TreideadaL T0VT0i<i koI toi<; 
E rjyepocTi roi<; tov Aiovvaov, rot? virep e^rjKovTa 
eTtj yeyovoaiv, larjv koI fxei^co ttjv ala')(vvr)v 
(pipeiv Tj TOV Tot9 Toi) "A.peo'i direidovvra ap-)(pvcnv. 

KA. 'Opdco^. 

A0. OvKovv et ye et-q ToiavT-r] /xev fiedq, 
TOiavTrj 8e iraihid, ficov ovk w^eXT/^eyre? av ol 
TOiovToi crvfiirorai Kal fidXXov (piXoi rj irpoTepov 
dTraXXdTTOLVTO dXXrfXwv, dXX ov)^ (acnrep ra 
vvv e')(6poi, KaTCL vo/xou^ 8r] ^ irdaav ttjv ^vvovatav 
672 ^vyyevofxevot Kal dKoXov9t')a-avTe<; oirore d(f)r}yoivTO 
01 v^(f)ovr€<; rot? /xr] vr)(f)0vcnv ; 

KA. ^Opda)<;, ei ye Brj etij TOcavTrj o'lav vvv 
XAyei<i. 

^ Siafiaxovj.i(vov H. Richards : SMuax^h^fov MSS. 
152 



LAWS, BOOK II 

then, the man who is to mould them is the good 
legislator ; he must lay down banqueting laws, able 
to control that banqueter who becomes confident 
and bold and unduly shameless, and unwilling to 
submit to the proper limits of silence and speech, 
of drinking and of music, making him consent to do 
in all ways the opposite, — laws able also, with the 
aid of justice, to fight against the entrance of such 
ignoble audacity, by bringing in that most noble 
fear which we have named •' modesty " and " shame." 

CLIN. That is so. 

ATH. And as law -wardens of these laws and co- 
operators therewith, there must be sober and sedate 
men to act as commanders over the un-sober; for to 
fight drunkenness without these would be a more 
formidable task than to fight enemies without sedate 
leaders. Any man who refuses willingly to obey 
these men and the officers of Dionysus (who are over 
sixty years of age) shall incur as mucli disgrace as 
the man who disobeys the officers of Ares, a!id even 
more. 

CLIN. Quite right. 

ATH. If such was the character of the drinking 
and of the recreation, would not such fellow-drinkers 
be the better for it, and part from one another 
better friends than before, instead of enemies, as 
now.-* For they would be guided by laws in all 
their intercourse, and would listen to the directions 
given to the un-sober by the sober. 

CLIN. True, if it really were of the character you 
describe. 



' [ef'iov (f)o'8ov] bracketed by Badham, Schanz. 
« S^ England : 5« MSS. 



«53 



PLATO 

Ae. M^ roivvv eKelvo 7' en T179 rov ^lovvaov 
Scoped^ ylriycofiev aTrXcof, «09 eVrt kukt) koX el<i 
TToXiv ovK a^ia 'rrapahe-)(eadai. koI yap en 
TrXctft) Tf9 av eire^ekdot Xeycov, eirel Koi to 
fieyicrrov ayadov o Soypelrai Xeyeiv /xev 6kvo<; 
et9 TO 1/9 iroXkoiKi 8ia to KaKco<; tov^ dvdpci)7rov<i 

B avTo vTToXa^elv koI yvwvai \e')(dev. 
KA. To TTolov Zrj ; 

A0. A0709 Tt9 cijia KoX <p'>]fir] viroppel 7r<u9, 
a)9 6 ^€09 0UT09 VTTo T^9 /MT]T pvid<i ''H/3a9 8ie(f>o- 
prjdri Tri<i yfrvxv^ t^v yvcofirjv, Bio Ta9 re ^aK')(eia<; 
Kol Trdaav tyjv /xavifcrjv ifi^dWei ■)(^opelav Tifio)- 
povpevo<i' bdev kol tov olvov eirl tovt ovto 
Se8(i)pr)Tai. iyo) Se to, /xev ToiavTa toi<; dcrcpaXef 
riyovp,evoL<i elvai \iyeiv irepX Oecbv d(f)iT]fiL Xeyecv, 
TO Se TOcrovSe olSa, oti irdv ^mov, oaov ai/TW 

7rpo(n]Ket vovv e'xeiv TeXecodevTi, tovtov koI 
ToaovTOV ovSev e')(ov troTe (f)veTai. ev T0VT(p Srj 
tS> y^povw ev m /xt^ttco KefCTrjTat ttjv oiKeiav 
^p6vr](Tiv, TTCLV ixaiveTai re Koi ^oa dTciKTco^, /cai 
oTav aKTacvcocrrj eavTO Ta-^^^LCTTa, aTUKTco^ av 
TTTjSa. dva/jLvrjaOc^/xev 8e oti p,ovai,Kri<i re Ka\ 
yvfJLva(7TiKrj<i e<papbev dp)(^d<; TavTa^ elvai. 
KA. Me/MVi]/jie6a- tl S' ov ; 
A0. OvKOvv Kal OTI TT]v pud fiov T6 Koi dpfiovia^ 

D atadrjcnv Tol<i dv0 p(i)voi<i rjfilv evSeBcoKevat ttjv 
"'PXh^ Tai;T?7i/ €(f)afM€v, ^ ATToXXcova 8e Kal Moytra? 
Kal Ai6vv(rov <rvvacTi,ov<; ^ yey ovevai ; 

^ ffwanlovs '. Ofwv aWlovs MSS. : rovrwv alriovs Cornarius. 

^ i.e. the "frenzied " motion ascribed to Dionysus is, rather 
154 



LAWS, BOOK II 

ATH. Then we must no longer, without qualifica- 
tion, bring that old charge against the gift of 
Dionysus, that it is bad and unworthy of admittance 
into a State. Indeed, one might enlarge consider- 
ably on this subject ; for the greatest benefit that 
gift confers is one which one hesitates to declare to 
the multitude, since, when declared, it is misconceived 
and misunderstood. 

CLIN. What is that ? 

ATH. There is a secret stream of stoiy and report 
to the effect that the god Dionysus was robbed of 
his soul's judgment by his stepmother Hera, and 
that in vengeance therefor he brought in Bacchic 
rites and all the frenzied choristry, and with the 
same aim bestowed also the gift of wine. These 
matters, however, I leave to those who think it safe 
to say them about deities ^ ; but this much I know, — 
that no creature is ever born in possession of that 
reason, or that amount of reason, which properly 
belongs to it when fully developed ; consequently, 
every creature, during the period when it is still 
lacking in its proper intelligence, continues all in a 
frenzy, crying out wildly, and, as soon as it can get 
on its feet, leaping wildly. Let us remember how 
we said that in this we have the origin of music and 
gymnastic.^ 

CLIN. We remember that, of course. 

ATH. Do we not also remember how we said that 
from this origin there was implanted in us men the 
sense of rhythm and harmony, and that the joint 
authors thereof were Apollo and the Muses and the 
god Dionysus ? 

a natural instinct exhibited in all child-life, and D. helps 
to reduce it to rhythm. * Cp. 653 1) flF. 

«55 



PLATO 

KA. lift)? fyap ov ; 

A0. Kat 8ri Kol TOP oivov ye, &)? eoiKcv, 6 twv 
aWojv X0709 "va fiavSyixev ^ijalv iir^ rtfiwpia 
rf} tS)v avdpcoTTMV SeSoadar 6 Se vvv \ey6fi€vo<; 
v(fi r]ixoyv (papfxaKov eVt rovvavriov ^rjaXv alhov<i 
fiev ■^v')(rj<i KTi](Teco<i evexa SeSoadai, aco/xuTOt 8e 
vyi€La<i re koI icrXvo<;. 

KA. KaXXicrra, c5 ^iue, top \6yov UTrefivr]- 
fi6vevKa<i. 
E A0. Kat T(i fxev Brj tt}? ■^opeia'i i^plaea hia- 
TreTrepdvOco' to, B' rjfiLO-ea, o7ro)<? av eri hoKrj, 
Trepavov/xev rj koI idaofxev ; 

KA. Uoia 8r} \ey€i<;, Kat 7r<M9 eKarepa 8iaip(ov ; 

A0. "0\rj p,ev TTOV ')(^opela 6\r} Traihevcri^ r)v 
rjiuv, TOVTOV 8' av to fiev pvO/xoC re kuI dp/j-ovlai 
TO Kara rrjv (f)covr]v. 

KA. Nat. 

A0. To 8e ye Kara rrjv rov o-tw/taTO? klvtjctiv 
pvdfiov p.ev Koivov TTJ tt}? (po)vi]s €tT^e Kivrjaei, 
^^(riiMa he iSiov. e'/cet Be fieXo^ rj rrj^ (poi}<rj<i 
673 Ki,vr)ai<;. 

KA. ^ A\r]0€(TTaTa. 

A0. Ta pev roivvv t?)? <f)(ovrj<; p^e^pi Trj<; 'yjrvxv'i 
7rpo9 dp€TT]v TratSeia?,^ ovk olS" ovTiva rpoirov, 
u)Vop-daap,ev pLOvaLKrjV- 

KA. ^OpdSi^ p,ev ovv. 

A0. Ta ^e ye rov acopaTO<;, a irai^ovrcov 
op')(r)(TLV etiropev, edv pe^pt t^^ tov a-(opaTO<; 
aperr]^ rj roiavrr) KiV)]ai<i yiyvrjTai, rrjv evrexvov 
dyajy^v eVt to toiovtov avrov yvpLvaariKr^v 
TtpoaeincjDpLev. 

^ dperriv iraiSeias Ritt-er : dpeTrjs naiSelav MSS. 
156 



LAWS, BOOK II 

CLIN. Certainly we remember. 

ATH. Moreover, as to wine, the account given by 
other people apparently is that it was bestowed on 
us men as a punishment, to make us mad ; but our 
own account, on the contrary, declares that it is a 
medicine given for the purpose of securing modesty 
of soul and health and strength of body. 

CLIN. You have recalled our account admirably, 
Stranger. 

ATH. We may say, then, that the one half of the 
subject of choristry has now been disposed of. Shall 
we proceed at once to deal with the other half in 
whatever way seems best, or shall we leave it alone .^ 

CLIN. What halves do you mean ? How are you 
dividing the subject ? 

ATH. In our view, choristry as a whole is identical 
with education as a whole ; and the part of this 
concerned with the voice consists of rhythms and 
harmonies. 

CLIN. Yes. 

ATH. And the part concerned with bodily motion 
possesses, in common with vocal motion, rhythm ; 
besides which it possesses gesture as its own peculiar 
attribute, just as tune is the peculiar attribute of 
vocal motion. 

CLIN. Very true. 

ATH. Now the vocal actions which pertain to the 
training of the soul in excellence we ventured 
somehow to name "music." 

CLIN. And rightly so. 

ATH. As regards the bodily actions which we 
called playful dancing, — if such action attains to 
bodily excellence, we may term the technical 
guidance of the body to this end " gymnastic." 

157 



PLATO 

B KA. ^Opdorara. 

A0. To Se tt}? fjLOvatKTJ^;, o vvv hr) cr-)(ehov 
rj^iav 8i€\r]\v6€vat Trj<; 'Xppela^i eiTro/xev xal 
BiaTTeirepdvOai^ koX vvv ovtco<{ elptjcrdco' to Be 
7]fii(Tv Xeyco/mev, rj Trw? Kal tt^ 'Troirjriov ; 

KA. n dptare, Kpr]<rl Kal AaKeBai/xoviocf; 
8ia\.€y6fX€vo<;, fiovcnKr]<i Tripi SieXdovrcDV rjfiojv, 
iWeiTTovTtov Be yvpvaariKr]<;, ri irore o'Ui aoi 
TTorepov r}fjuSiv airoKpiveladat, Trpo? ravTijv ttjv 
epconjcriv ; 

A0. ^ATTOKeKpio-Oai 676)7' dv ae (palrjv cr')(^eB6v 

C ravr^ epofievov (Ta(f)co^, Kal fiavOdvo} clx? ipQ}Tr)cn<; 

ovcra avrrj ra vvr aTTOKpiaL^; t' eariv, 0)9 elirov 

Kal eri irpocna^i,^ Bcarrepdvaa-dai to, irepl 

yvfiva<rriK7J<;. 

KA. "Apiad^ VTreXa^€<; re Kal ovrco Br) iroUi. 

A0. UoLTjTeov- ovBe yap irdvv '^^aXeirov eariv 
elirelv vfilv ye diJ,(f)OT€poi^ yvcopifxa. ttoXv yap 
ev TavTT) rfi Texvjf irXeov e/XTretpia^ rj ev eKeivrj 
fiere-x^ere. 

KA. Xx^^ov dXr]6rj Xey€i<i. 

A0. OvKOVv av TavTr]<i dpyrj psv tt}? TraiBidi; 
D TO Kara <f)vaiv irrjBdv eWiadai Trdv ^a)ov, to 8 
dvdpdiTTLVov, (w? €(f)a/jL€v, aiaOrjcriv Xa^ov rod 
pvdfMOV iyevvrjae re opxv'^''^ ''f^* ereKe, rov Be 
p,eXov^ vTrofj.ifjbvr]a-KOVTO<; Kal eyelpovTO<i rbv pvOfiov, 
KoivoodevT dXX7]XoL<i xop^^o-v i^cll iraiBidv eTeKcrrjv. 

KA. ^ KXrideaTaTa. 
158 



LAWS, BOOK II 

CMN. Quite rightly. 

ATH. As to music, which was referred to when 
we said a moment ago that the one half of choristry 
had been described and disposed of, — let us say the 
same of it now ; but as to the other half, are we to 
speak about it, or what are we to do ? 

CLIN. My good sir, you are conversing with 
Cretans and Lacedaemonians, and we have discussed 
the subject of music ; what reply, then, to your 
question do you suppose that either of us will make, 
when the subject left still untouched is gymnastic ? 

ATH. You have given me a pretty clear answer, 
I should say, in putting this question ; although it is 
a question, I understand it to be also (as 1 say) an 
answer — or rather, an actual injunction to give a full 
account of gymnastic. 

CLIN. You have grasped my meaning excellently : 
please do so. 

ATH. Do it I must ; and indeed it is no very hard 
task to speak of things well known to you both. 
For you are far better acquainted with this art than 
with the other. 

CLIN. That is about true. 

ATM. The origin of the play^ we are speaking of 
is to be found in the habitual tendency of every 
living creature to leap ; and the human creature, by 
acquiring, as we said, a sense of rhythm, generated 
and brought forth dancing ; and since the rhythm 
is suggested and awakened by the tune, the union 
of these two brought forth choristry and play. 

CLIN. Very true. 

* i.e. playful motion, or dancing, aa contrasted with 
"music " ( or '• harmony") which springs from the tendency 
to cry out. 



PLATO 

A0. Kat TO fiev, (f)a/j,iv, ■^St] 8i€\r)\v6a/J,€v 
avrov, TO Sk ireipacro/jLeda e(p€^T}<i SieXdelv. 

KA. Yldvv fl€P ovv. 

A0. Etti 70LVVV T7J Trj<i fiedr]^ XP^^^ "^^^ fcoXo- 

E <f)0)va irpwrov eiridcofiev, el koL a(f)wv ^vvSoxel. 
KA. notoi' Bt) Kol riva \eyei<; ; 
A0. Et fiev Tif TToXt? &)? ov(Trj<; airovBrj^; ra> 
iTTiTrjSevfiaTi tw vvv elprj/xevo) xprjaejat fiera 
voficov Kal Ta^6ft)<>, cd^ tov acocppovelv evexa 
fieXirrj ^ ■)(^pcofievr}, Kal tcop dWtop tjSovcov pLt] 
d<f)e^eTai ooaavTco^; Kal Kara top avrop Xojov, 
TOV Kpareiv aincop epeKa pbriy^avwp-epT), tovtov 
fi€P top TpoTTOP dirnai TOVTOi<i ■)(pr)cTTeoP' el 3' 
ft)? Traihia t€, kqI e^earai tw ^ovXcfxepo), Kal 
674 OTaf ^ovXr)Tac, Kal fie6^ wp dp ^ovXrjTai, ttlpcip 
/j,€T eTTLTrjSevfiaTCDP wpTipaypovP dXXwp, ovk dp 
TiOeifiTjp TavT7)p TTjp ylrrj<pop, o)? Bel iroTe fiedrj 
'y^pijaOat TuvTijp ttjp ttoXip rj tovtop top dpSpa, 
dXX^ eTi fidXXop Trj<; KprjTcop Kol AaKcSai/jLOPicop 
^peta? irpoaOelfirjp dp tw twv Kap')(r]8oPL(op po/xo), 
IxrjheTTOTe fi,T]8epa cttI CTpaTOTreBov •yevecrdat tov- 
tov TOV 7rce>/AaT09, dXX' vhpoiTO(rlai<; ^vyylypeadai 
TOVTOP TOP ■)(p6pop dirapra, Kal Kara ttoXip prjTe 
ZovXop fi^T€ SovXrjp yeveadai firj^eTrore, p.rjSe 

B dp')(^0PTa<i TOVTOP TOP ipiavTov op dp dp^wai, p,r]K 
av KV^epprjTa^ p,r]Se hiKa(TTa<i ipepyovi 0PTa<i 
otpov yevecrOai to irapdrrap, firjS' oo"Tt9 ^ovXev- 
aopepo'i eh ^ovXrjp d^iap Tipd Xoyov avpepx^Tai, 
fit]8e ye p.e9' rjp,epap p.'qheva to Trapdirap, el firj 
a(i)paaKta<; rj poacop epeKa, p-rjS' av pvKTcop, OTap 

* fxe\eTTj Euseb., Schanz: fieXtrT^s MSS. 
i6o 



LAWS, BOOK II 

ATH. Of choristry we have already discussed the 
one part, and we shall next endeavour to discuss the 
other part. 

CLtN. By all means. 

ATH. But, if you both agree, let us first put the 
finishing stroke to our discourse on the use of drink. 

CLIN. What, or what kind of, finish do you mean ? 

ATH. If a State shall make use of the institution 
now mentioned in a lawful and orderly manner, re- 
garding it in a serious light and practising it with a 
view to temperance, and if in like manner and with 
a like object, aiming at the mastery of them, it shall 
allow indulgence in all other pleasures, — then they 
must all be made use of in the manner described. 
But if, on the other hand, this institution is regarded 
in the light of play, and if anyone that likes is to be 
allowed to drink whenever he likes and with any 
companions he likes, and that in conjunction with 
all sorts of other institutions, — then I would refuse 
to vote for allowing such a State or such an individual 
ever to indulge in drink, and I would go even 
beyond the practice of the Cretans and Lacedaemon- 
ians ^ ; and to the Carthaginian law, which ordains that 
no soldier on the march should ever taste of this potion, 
but confine himself for the whole of the time to water- 
drinking only, 1 would add this, that in the city 
also no bondsman or bondsmaid should ever taste of 
it ; and that magistrates during their year of office, 
and pilots and judges while on duty, should taste 
no wine at all ; nor should any councillor, while 
attending any impoi-tant council ; nor should anyone 
whatever taste of it at all, except for reasons of 
bodily training or health, in the day-time ; nor 

» Cp. Bk. i. 637a, b. 

i6i 



PLATO 

iinvofi Tt9 TratSa? iroLelcrdai avrjp rj koX 'yvvrj. 
kdi aWa oe Trd/xTToWa av rt? Xeyoi, ev ol<; rot? 
vovv T6 Kal vofiov exovaiv opdov ov Troreo^ oivo^' 
C &<TTe Kara top \6yov tovtov ov8* a/j,7re\covcov ^ 
av TToWofv 8eoi ouS' •^rivi iroXei, roKra Se rd 
r aWa av eiij 'yea>py7]fiaTa Kal irdaa rj hiana, 
Kai or] rd ye irepi olvov cr^ehov aTrdvrcov ifi/ji€Tp6- 
Tara Kal oXiyLcrra yCyvoir av. ovto<;, w ^ivoi, 
r/filv, el ^vvBoKec, KoXo(fic6v eVt t&) irepl oXvov 
Xoycp prjdevTL elpijcrOo). 

KA. Ka.X&)9, Kal ^vvBoKel. 

' afi-KfKwvwv £useb, : afiirtKuv MSS. 



169 



LAWS, BOOK II 

should anyone do so by night — be he man or woman 
— when proposing to procreate children. Many 
other occasions, also, might be mentioned when wine 
should not be drunk by men who are swayed by right 
reason and law. Hence, according to this argument, 
there would be no need for any State to have a large 
number of vineyards ; and while all the other agri- 
cultural products, and all the foodstuffs, would be 
controlled, the production of wine especially would 
be kept within the smallest and most modest di- 
mensions. Let this, then. Strangers, if you agree, 
be the finishing stroke which we put to our discourse 
concerning wine. 

CLIN. Very good ; we quite agree. 



163 



676 Ae. TavTa fiev ovv Bjj ravrrj' TToXcTeia^ 8' 
ap')(r]v TLva irore (f)(o/j,ei^ jeyouevat ; fiwv ovk 
ivdevSe Ti<i av avTTjv pacnd re koI KdWiara 
KaTihoL ; 

KA. Ilodev ; 

A0. "OOev irep xal rrjv tcov rrroXecov eiriSoa-iv 
€t<f dperrjv fxera^aivovacop * ap,a koI KaKiav itcd- 
(TT0T6 Oeareov. 

KA. Ae7et9 Be irodev ; 

A0. OlfMUL fiev aTTO ')(^p6vov firjKovn; re xal 
B direipia^ koI tmv /xera^oXayu iv Ta> toiootq). 

KA. lift)? Xeyeif; ; 

A0. ^ipe, rt0' ov TToXei? t' elal kuI dvOpcoirot 
TToXiTevopievoL, BoKei<; dv irore KaravofjcaL 'x^povov 
Tr\7]do^ ocrov yeyovev ; 

KA. OvKOvv paBiov ye ovBa/jLcHx;. 

A0. To Be ye, el)? dnXerov ri Kal dfirf^^^avov dv 
eiT], 

KA. Tidvv fiev ovv rovTO ye. 

A0. Mw/' OVV OV fivplai fiev eVt fivp[ai<; r}fuv 
yeyovaai iroK.ei'i ev rovrw ro) ')(^p6v(i>, Kara tov 
avrov Be rov TrXijdovq \6yov ovk eXdrrov<; €(pdap- 
C fievac ,' TreTToXirevfievai S' av irdcra^; TroXixeta? 
ttoXXAkci; eKacTTaxov ; Kal Tore fiev e^ eXarrovtov 
fiei^ov<i, rore Be e« fiet^ovcov eXdrrov<i, koI ^elpov; 
eK ^eXriovcov yeyovaai Kal ^eXrlovi eK yeipovoiv ; 

' Utrafiaivovauv Boeckh : fitrafialvguauv MSS. 
164 



BOOK III 

ATH. So much for that, then ! Now, what are 
we to say about the origin of government ? Would 
not the best and easiest way of discerning it be from 
this standpoint ? 

CLIN. What standpoint ? 

ATH. That from which one should always observe 
the progress of States as they move towards either 
goodness or badness. 

CLIN. What point is that? 

ATH. The observation, as I suppose, of an in- 
finitely long period of time and of the variations 
therein occurring. 

CLIN. Explain your meaning. 

ATH. Tell me now : do you think you could ever 
ascertain the space of time that has passed since 
cities came into existence and men lived under civic 
rule? 

CLIN. Certainly it would be no easy task. 

ATH. But you can easily see that it is vast and 
immeasurable ? 

CLIN. That I most certainly can do. 

ATH. During this time, have not thousands upon 
thousands of States come into existence, and, on a 
similar computation, just as many perished ? And 
have they not in each case exhibited all kinds of 
constitutions over and over again ? And have they 
not changed at one time from small to great, at 
another from great to small, and clianged also from 
good to bad and from bad to good ? 

165 



PLATO 

KA. 'AvayKalov. 

Ae. TavTT]<; 8r} iript Xd^w/xev, el hvvaifieda, 
rrj<; fieTa^oXijt; rrjv alrtav Td')(a yap av tcrfof 
hei^euv rj/xiv Trjv irpuyrrjv roiv TroXtreicop yiveaiv 
Koi fierd^aaiv. 

KA. Ey \eyei<;, koX rrpodv/j,ela6ai Set ae fiev o 
hiavoel irepl avrcov diro<f>acv6fievov, ^fid'i Be 
^vveiTOixevovi. 
677 A0. Ap ovv vfilv 01 iraXaioX Xoyot dXtjOeiav 
e)(^eiv Tivd hoKOvcnv ; 

KA. Woloi 8i] ; 

A0. To 7roXXa<i dvdpooTrwv (f>6opd^ yeyovevat, 
KaTa/cXva-fMoif re koI voaoi^ koI dXXoi^ jroXXoi'i, 
ev OL<i ^pay^v tl tmv dvdpcoTrcov Xelirecrdai yevo<;. 

KA. Udvv jxev ovv indavov ro roioinov irdv 
irami. 

Ae. 4>epe hrj, vorjacofiev fxiav tS)v itoXXS>v 
Taxnt-jv TTjv TO) KaraKXvcrpo) irore yevo/j,ev7}v. 

KA. To TTolov Ti irepl avri)^ SiavotjOevTe'; ; 
B A0. n? ol Tore '7repi(f>uy6vTe<; 7r]v (f)dopdv o-^e- 
8ou opeioi Tive<i av eiev vofMrj<;, ev Kopv<^al<i ttov 
afiiKpd ^(OTTvpa rov rcov dv^pcoircov hiaaeacocr- 
fxeva yevov^. 

KA. ^riXov. 

A0. Kat hr) Tovf TOLovTovi ye avdyxr) ttov tmv 
dXXcov direipov^ eivai re')(yS)v koI tcov ev To2<i 
dareai tt/oo? dXX^Xov<i firj-^avSiv ec<i re irXeove^ia^ 
Kai <piXoveiKLa<i, Kai oiroa^ dXXa KaKOvpyrjiiara 
Trpo? dXXrjXov<; eirivoovaiv. 

KA. Et«o9 yovv. 
C A0. @(o/j,ev Srj ra? ev toI<; TreStot? TroXet? kuI 

1 Deucalion's Flood : cp. Polit. 270 C. 
1 66 



LAWS, BOOK III 

CLIN. Necessarily. 

ATH. Of this process of cliange let us discover, if 
we can, the cause ; for this, perhaps, would show us 
what is the primary origin of constitutions, as well 
as their transformation. 

CLIN. You are right ; and we must all exert our- 
selves, — you to expound your view about them, and 
we to keep pace with you. 

ATH. Do you consider that there is any truth in 
the ancient tales ? 

CLIN. What tales ? 

ATH. That the world of men has often been 
destroyed by floods, plagues, and many other things, 
in such a way that only a small portion of the human 
race has survived. 

CLIN. Everyone would regard such accounts as 
perfectly credible. 

ATH. Come now, let us picture to ourselves one 
of the many catastrophes, — namely, that which 
occurred orrte upon a time through the Deluge.^ 

CLIN. And what are we to imagine about it ? 

ATH. That the men who then escaped destruction 
must have been mostly herdsmen of the hills, scanty 
embers of the human race preserved somewhere on 
the mountain-tops. 

CLIN. Evidently. 

ATH. Moreover, men of this kind must necessarily 
have been unskilled in the arts generally, and 
especially in such contrivances as men use against 
one another in cities for purposes of greed and 
rivalry and all the other villainies which they devise 
one against another. 

CLIN. It is certainly probable. 

ATH. Shall we assume that the cities situated in the 

167 



PLATO 

TTyoo? OaXuTTTj KaToiKovaa<i aphrjv iv tc3 totc 
^poz/ft) 8ia(f)deLpecr$ai ; 

KA. Soi/iiev. 

A0. OvKovv opyavd re Trdvra d-TroWvadai, Koi 
et Ti Texvr]<; rjv i^ofxevov aiTovSaifO'i evp-qfievov rj 
7ro\iriKTJ<{ rj koi (To^la<; rtvo? krepa<i, irdvra eppeiv 
TavTa iv raJ Tore '^povw ^rjaofiev ; tto)^ ^ yap dv, 
0} apiare, et ye e/xeve rdSe ovtw rov irdvra ■)(^p6vov 
to? viiv BiaKCKoafirjTai, Kaivov dvevpicrKero Trore 
Kal OTiovv ; 
D KA. <'H ovv> Tovro,^ on fikv yap fivpiaKfi 
fivpLa err) SieXdvOavev dpa rov<i Tore, ')(i\ia B' 
d(f 01) yiyovev r] BU Toaavra err] rd /nev AatSaXiw 
Karac^avi) {^eyove^,^ rd Be 'Op^et, rd Be TlaXa- 
fiijBei, ra Be rrepl /j,ovaiKr)v ^iapava xal 'OXu/iTTft), 
Trept \vpav Be ^Afx^iovi, rd 8' dWa dWoi<i 
rrdfiTToWa, co? ctto? eliTclv ')(6e<i Ka\ rrpcorjv ye- 
yovora ; 

Ae. 'Ap' oiad\ Q) KXeivia, rov ^iXov on 
irapeXiTTe^, rov drex^ax; %^e9 yevofxevov ; 

KA. Mftij^ (f)pd^€i^ 'ETTi/jLevLBijv ; 

A0. Nai rovrov iroXv yap vpuv VTrepeTrtjBrjae 
Tw /jLr))^avi]fjLan rov<; ^v/j,7ravra<i, w (f)iXe, o Xoym 
fiev 'H(t[oBo<; ep.avrevero irdXai, raJ S' epyu) eKelvo<i 
direreXeaev, co? vfiel<i (pare. 
E KA. ^apiev ydp ovv. 

^ With Immisch and Burnet, I assign ircis . . . drtovv to Ath., 
not to Cli7i. (as Zur. , al.) 

* <'H ody> I add : Schanz reads ravr' oH n, Hermann 
rovTo oUi : Zur. omits tovto. 

* [yeyovf'i bracketed by Ast, Schanz. 

1 Cp. 642 D. 
i68 



LAWS, BOOK III 

plains and near the sea were totally destroyed at the 

time ? 

CLIN. Let us assume it. 

ATH, And shall we say that all implements were 
lost, and that everything in the way of important 
arts or inventions that they may have had, — 
whether concerned with politics or other sciences, — 
perished at that time ? For, supposing that things 
had remained all that time ordered just as they are 
now, how, my good sir, could anything new have 
ever been invented ? 

CLIN. Do you mean that these things were un- 
known to the men of those days for thousands upon 
thousands of years, and that one or two thousand 
years ago some of them were revealed to Daedalus, 
some to Orpheus, some to Palamedes, musical arts 
to Marsyas and Olympus, lyric to Amphion, and, in 
short, a vast number of others to other persons — all 
dating, so to say, from yesterday or the day before ? 

ATH. Are you aware, Clinias, that you have left 
out your friend who was literally a man of yesterday ? 

CLIN. Is it Epimenides^ you mean.'' 

ATH. Yes, I mean him. For he far outstripped 
everybody you had, my friend, by that invention of 
his of which he was the actual producer, as you 
Cretans say, although Hesiod "^ had divined it and 
spoken of it long before. 

CLIN. We do say so. 

' Op. D. 40 f . 

in]Xiot, oiidf Xaaaiv oa<f vXiov ^ixitrv ircunds, 

ovS' Ztrov (V ^o\ax]7 t« (coJ ka<poH\(p fi4y^ ovttap. 

Hesiod's allusion to the "great virtue residing in mallow 
and asphodel '" is supposed to have suggested to Epimenides 
his " invention" of a herbal concoction, or ''elixir of life.'" 

169 



PLATO 

A9. OvKovv ovTQ) 8r) Xiycofiev e'Xeiv Tore, ore 
eyevero rj (f)6opd, ra Trepl toi)? avO pcoirovi •jrpd'y- 
fiara, jjuvplav ptev riva ^o^epav eprjpbiav, yr}^ B' 
d(f)dovov ttXtjOo^ TrdfiTToXv, ^cocov 8k roiv dWwv 
eppovTwv BovkoXl arra, KaX et rt ttov alywv 
TreptXeicfiOev ervy^^ave yevo^, cnrdvia koI Tuvra 
078 vifiovaiv elvai ^fjv to ^e ^ Kar dp')(^d<i. 

KA, Tt p.i]v ; 

A0. TloXeco^ 8e koI iroXiTeia'i irept, koI vofio- 
Oeaua^, cjv vvv o Xoyo^ rjpuv irapearrjKeu, dp" cb? 
eTTO? elirelv ol6p.e6a koI p,v7]p,r]v elvai to irapdirav ; 

KA. OySa/iw?. 

A0. OvKovv e^ eKeCvcov toov 8iaK€i/j,ev(ov ovtco 
rd vvv yeyovev rjplv ^vpuiravra, iroXei*; re koX 
TToXiTeiai Kol rexvai Kal v6p,oi KaX ttoXXt) /jlcv 
irovripia, ttoXXtj 8e Kal dperri ; 

KA. n&)9 Xeyei^ ; 
B A0. 'Ap' olopeda, & davpidcne, tou? ToTe direi- 
pov<i 6vTa<i TToXXcbv p.ev kuXwv tcov Kara rd dart}, 
TToXXoiv he KaX tcov ivavrlayv, reXeov^ tt/jo? dpcTrjv 
rj KaX irpo'i KaKiav yeyovevai ; 

KA. KaX&)9 et7re9, KaX piavddvo/xev o Xey€i,<;. 

Ae. OvKovv 7rpo'iovTo<i /xev rov ■)(^povou, irXrj- 
0vovTo<; 8' r^jjiwv rov y€vov<i, et? iravra rd vvv KaOe- 
(TTTjKOTa TT poeXrfXvde irdvra ; 

KA. ^OpOorara. 

A0. OvK e^ai(f)vr]<; ye, co? cIko^, Kaid (rpuKpov 
Be ev irap.TToXXw rivX ')(^p6va). 
C KA. Kat fxdXa Trpeirei rovd* ovtw<;. 

A0. 'Ek yap rSiv vyjrijXcov et? rd ireBia Kara- 
BaCveiv, olp.ai, irdai (f>6^o^ evavXo<i iyeyovei. 

* t6 yf : tJt« MSS. (rh England). 
170 



LAWS, BOOK III 

ATH. Shall we, then, state that, at the time when 
the destruction took place, human affairs were in 
this position : there was fearful and widespread 
desolation over a vast tract of land ; most of the 
animals were destroyed, and the few herds of oxen 
and flocks of goats that happened to survive afforded 
at the first but scanty sustenance to their herdsmen? 

CLIN. Yes. 

ATH. And as to the matters with which our 
present discourse is concerned — States and state- 
craft and legislation, — do we think they could have 
retained any memory whatsoever, broadly S{>eaking, 
of such matters r 

CLIN. By no means. 

ATH. So from those men, in that situation, there 
has sprung the whole of our present order — States 
and constitutions, arts and laws, with a great amount 
both of evil and of good ? 

CLIN. How do you mean ? 

ATH. Do we imagine, my good Sir, that the men 
of that age, who were unversed in the ways of city 
life — many of them noble, many ignoble, — were 
perfect either in virtue or in vice ? 

CUN. Well said ! We grasp your meaning. 

ATH. As time went on and our race multiplied, 
all things advanced — did they not .'' — to the condition 
which now exists. 

CLIN. Very true. 

ATH. But, in all probability, they advanced, not 
all at once, but by small degrees, during an immense 
space of time. 

CUN. Yes, that is most likely. 

ATH. For they all, I fancy, felt as it were stil! 
ringing in their ears a dread of going down from the 
highlands to the plains. 

171 



PLATO 

KA. n<w9 8' ov ; 

A0. 'A/)' OVK a<rfi€voi fiev €avTOv<; ewpwv Bi 
oXiyoTijra ev TOt<? frepi^ ^ eKelvov rov -x^povov, . 
<Ta> ^ TTopela Si, war eV aXXT/Xou? Tore 
TTopeveaOai Kara yfjv tj Kara ddXarrav, avv rat? 
re')(yai<; &)<> eTro? elirelv irdvra a^eSov aTroXcoXet ; 
^v/x/xLO-yeiv ovv dWrjXoi^i ovk rjv, ol/iiai, acfioSpa 
D Svvarov trtSr/po? <yap Kal 'x^aXKo^ Kal rrravra ra 
fieraWela (TvyK€')^v/j,€va r^^dvKno, coare diropia 
irdaa ^v tov dvaKaOaipeadai to, roiavra, SpvoTO- 
fi[a<i re el^ov airdviv. el ydp rrov rt Kal rrepi- 
yeyovo<i rjv opyavov ev opeat, ravra p,ev ra^v 
Kararpi^ivra ri(f)dviaro, aWa B ovk e/ieWe yevrj- 
aeadai rrpXv irdXiv r) rwv /j,€raXXeci)v d^iKotro 
et9 dvdpco7rov<; re-^vt]. 

KA. n&)? ydp dv ; 

Ae. Teveal'i Stj iroa-ai'i varepov ol6p,eda rov6' 
ovra> yeyovevai ; 
E KA. l^rjXov on ira/xTroXXai^ ricriv. 

A0. OvKovv Kal re')(yai ocrairrep crihrjpov heov- 
rai Kal x^Xkov Kal rwv roiovrwv dnrdyroiv, rov 
avrov xpdvov Kal en rrXeiova rj(j)avi(r/j,evat- dv elev 
ev rm rore ; 

KA. Tt /x'^v ; 

Ae. Kai roivvv ard(Ti<; dfia koI TroXefic; 
diToX(oXei Kara rov rore XP'^^°^ rroXXaxy- 

KA. n<M<> ; 

Ae. Tlpwrov pblv rjydrroiv Kal e(f)tXocf}pot>ovvro 

dXXijXovf; Si" iprjfxiav, eireira ov rrepLp.d')(7]ro'; rjv 

679 avrol<i rj rpo(f>-i]. vop,fj<; ydp ovk rjv crirdvL^, el p.'q 

rial Kar^ dp')(d<; X(Tw<i, fj hrj ro rrXelcrrov Sie^rov ev 

^ irt'pij : T«pl MSS., edd. * <Ta> added by Schanz. 
17a 



LAWS, BOOK III 

CLIN. Of course. 

ATH. And because tliere were so few of them 
round about in those days, were they not delighted 
to see one another, but for the fact that means of 
transport, whereby they might visit one another by 
sea or land, had practically all perished along with 
the arts? Hence intercourse, I imagine, was not 
very easy. For iron and bronze and all the metals 
in the mines had been flooded and had disappeared ; 
so that it was extremely difficult to extract fresh 
metal ; and there was a dearth, in consequence, of 
felled timber. For even if there happened to be 
some few tools still left somewhere on the mountains, 
these were soon worn out, and they could not be 
replaced by others until men had rediscovered the 
art of metal-working. 

CUN. They could not. 

ATH. Now, how many generations, do we suppose, 
had passed before this took place? 

CUN. A great many, evidently. 

ATH. And during all this period, or even longer, 
all the arts that require iron and bronze and all such 
metals must have remained in abeyance ? 

CUN. . Of course. 

ATM. Moreover, civil strife and war also dis- 
appeared during that time, and that for many 
reasons. 

CUN. How so ? 

ATH. In the first place, owing to their desolate 
state, they were kindly disposed and friendly towards 
one another; and secondly, they had no need to 
quarrel about food. For they had no lack of flocks 
and herds (except perhaps some of them at the out- 
set), and in that age these were what men mostly 

VOL. I. o ^73 



PLATO 

T6) Tore 'x^povw' 'yuXuKro^ 'yap /cal Kpewv ovhafiS)^ 
evSeet^ -qaav, en he 6rjpevovTe<; ov (f)av\7]v ou3' 
oXiyrjv Tpo(f)r)v irapeixovTO. kol prjv dp,7r€')(6vi]'i 
ye Kal <np(opvrj<; koX oiKi^aeoiv koI (tkcvcov epirv- 
pcov re Kal airvpcav eviropovv at TrXacrriKal yap 
KUL baai TrXeKTiKal rcov Te-)^va)v ovBe ev rrpocrheov- 

B Tai aLhrjpov ravra 8e irdvra tovtio tq> reyva 
6eo<i eBwKe iropi^eiv roU dvdp(i)TTot<;, Xv oTrore et? 
rr)v TOiavr-qv diropiav eXOocev, exot ^XdaTqv Kal 
eiriooaLv to twv dvOpcoircov yevo<;. TrevrjTe'i fiev 
OTj Slo. to TOiovTov a(f)68pa ovk rjaav, ovK vtto 
irevi,a<; dvayKat^opuevoL 8id(f>opoi eavTol<i eyiyvovro' 
irXovcTLOL S' OVK dv TTOT iyevovTO d')(pV(roC re Kal 
dvdpyvpot ovre<; [o ToTe ev eKeivot<; Traprjv]} fi 8' 
dv TTOre ^vvolkLo, p^ijre nXovrof ^vvoiKjj p.rjre 
irevla, a^eSov ev ravrrj yevvatorara rjOrj ylyvoir 

C dv ovre yap v^pi<; ovr dSiKia, ^ijXoi re av Kal 
(pOovoi OVK eyyCyvovrac. dyaOol p,€V Bt) 8id 
ravrd re tjcrav Kal hid rr)v Xeyop,evr}v evrjOeiav 
a yap tjkovov KaXd Kal ala^^^pd, evr)dei<i 6vre<i 
rjyovvro dXrjdearara XeyeaOai Kal eireidovro. 
■>^evho<i yap virovoelv ov8el<i rjTriararo hid ao(j>Lav, 
(oaTrep rd vvv, dXXd irepl OeSiv re koX dvOpwyroov 
ra Xeyopeva dXrjOrj vopi^ovre<i e^wv Kara ravra' 
hiOTTcp TJcrav roiovroi iravrdrracnv oiov^ avrov<; 
rjp,ei<; dprt hieXrjXvOapev. 

D KA. 'E/Aot yovv Bt) Kal ra>he ovrco ravra 
^vvhoKet. 

A0. OvKovv eiTTcop^v on yeveal hca^iovaai 
"TToXXal rovrov rov rpoirov rwv irpo KaraKXvcr p,ov 
yeyovorcov Kal r5>v vvv dre'xyorepot, pev Kal dpa- 

^ [> . . . ■Ka.p7\v\ omitted by Ficinus. 
174 



LAWS, BOOK III 

lived on : thus they were well supplied with milk 
and meat, and they procured further supplies of 
food, both excellent and plentiful, by hunting. 
They were also well furnished with clothing and 
coverlets and houses, and with vessels for cooking 
and other kinds ; for no iron is required for the arts 
of moulding and weaving, which two arts God gave 
to men to furnish them with all these necessaries, 
in order that the human race might have means of 
sprouting and increase whenever it should fall into 
such a state of distress. Consequently, they were 
not excessively poor, nor were they constrained by 
stress of poverty to quarrel one with another ; and, 
on the other hand, since they were without gold and 
silver, they could never have become rich. Now a 
community which has no communion with either 
poverty or wealth is generally the one in which the 
noblest characters will be formed ; for in it there is 
no place for the growth of insolence and injustice, of 
rivalries and jealousies. So these men were good, both 
for these reasons and because of their simple-minded- 
ness, as it is called ; for, being simple-minded, when 
they heard things called bad or good, they took 
what was said for gospel-truth and believed it. For 
none of them had the shrewdness of the modem 
man to suspect a falsehood ; but they accepted as 
true the statements made about gods and men, and 
ordered their lives by them. Thus they were entirely 
of the character we have just described. 

CLIN. Certainly Megillus and I quite agree with 
what you say. 

ATH. And shall we not say that people living in 
this fashion for many generations were bound to be 
unskilled, as corapare<^ with either the antediluvians 

175 



PLATO 

OecTTepot Trpo'i re ra? aWa<i /xeWovaip elvat 
ri'xya'i koI 7rpo<; ra<; TroXefiiKa^;, oaai re ire^al 
Kol oaac Kara OaXarrav yiyvovrai rh vvv, xal 
ooraL 8r) Kara ttoXiv, ovofid ttov ^ hiKai Kal (rrdaei^ 
Xeyofievai, X6yoi<; epyoL<i re fiefirj'^^avijfievai 7ra Ja? 
p,rj'^ava<i et? ro KaKovpyelv re dXX-qXovi xal 
E dSiKelv, evrjdearepoi Be Kal di>8pei6repoi Kal dfia 
aoxppovicrrepot Kal ^v/nravra StKaiorepot ; ro he 
rovrcov acrcov j]8r] SieXijXvdafiev. 

KA. '0/9^0)9 Xeyei<i. 

A0. AeXix^di Bt} ravra -qixlv Kal ra rovroi^ 
^vveiro/Meva en iravra elprjadw rovB eveKa, Iva 
680 vo7](TQ}fiev T049 rore voficov Tt9 ttot ^v xP^''^ '^'** 
Tt9 ^v vojjLoOerr^f; avroi^. 

KA. Kal KaX(o<i ye eip7]Ka<i, 

A0. 'A/j' ovv eKeivoc fiev ovr iSiovro vofiodermv 
ovre TTQ) i(f)iXec Kara rovrov<; rov<i Xpovov<: y'iy- 
veadac ro roiovrov ; ovSe yap ypd/x/xard earl rroi 
T0t9 ev rovrw rS> /xipei t»}9 vepioSov yeyovoacv, 
aXV edeai Kal roi<i Xeyo/j,evoi<i irarpioL^i pofMoi^; 
eirofievot ^(ocriv. 

KA. EtA:o9 yovv, 

A0. HoXireia'i 8e ye ijSr] Kal rpoirofi eari ri<i 
ovro<i. 

KA. Tt9 ; 

B A0. AoKOval fioi 7rdvre<; rrjv ev rovrw ra> 

Xpovo) TToXireiav hvvaareiav KaXetv, rj Kal vvv 

en TToXXaxov Kal ev "KXXr)(Ti Kal Kara ^ap- 

fidpov^ eari' Xiyei 5' avrrjv rrov Kal "Ofir)po<; 

^ ovofid vov : fi.6vov avTov MSS. (ovJ^oti Badham) 

1 Cp. Arist. Pol. 1252'> 17 ff. This " headship," which i* 
176 



LAWS, BOOK III 

or the men of to-day, and ignorant of arts in general 
and especially of the arts of war as now practised by 
land and sea, including those warlike arts which, 
disguised under the names of law-suits and factions, 
are peculiar to cities, contrived as they are with 
every device of word and deed to inflict mutual hurt 
and injury ; and that they were also more simple 
and brave and temperate, and in all ways more 
righteous ? And the cause of this state of things we 
have already explained. 

CLIN. Quite true. 

ATH. We must bear in mind that the whole 
purpose of what we have said and of what we are 
going to say next is this, — that we may understand 
what possible need of laws the men of that time 
had, and who their lawgiver was. 

CLIN. Excellent. 

ATH. Shall we suppose that those men had no 
need of lawgivers, and that in those days it was not 
as yet usual to have such a thing ? For those born 
in that age of the world's history did not as yet 
possess the art of writing, but lived by following 
custom and what is called " patriarchal "law. 

CLIN. That is certainly probable. 

ATH. But this already amounts to a kind of 
government. 

CLIN. What kind ? 

ATH. Everybody, I believe, gives the name of 
" headship " to the government which then existed, 
— and it still continues to exist to-day among both 
Greeks and barbarians in many quarters.^ And, of 
course. Homer 2 mentions its existence in connexion 

the hereditary personal authority of the father of a family 
or chief of a clan, we should term "patriarchy." 
* Odyst. ix. 112 ffi 

177 



PLATO 

yeyovevat irepX ttjv tmv KvKXooTrcov otxijaiv, 

TOicriv S' ovT ayopal ^ovXr)(f)6poi oine 

aXV ot y vyfrrjXcov opewv vaLOVcri Kaprjva 
ip arr€cr(Xi'y\a(pvpotaL, Oe/j^carTeveiSe eKacr- 

G Tralhwv rjh^ aXo^ci)!/, ov8' aWrjXmv ake- 

yovcnv. 

KA. "Eot«e 76 6 'rrovr)T7)<i vfxiv ovto^ yeyovivai 
'^apiei'i. Koi yap hrj koX aWa avrov hLeXrfkv- 
Oafxev fia)C dcrreca, ov firjv TToWd ye' ov yap 
a(f)68pa 'X^poofxeda ol }LpijT€<; rot'} ^€viKol<i iroirj- 
fiacrtv. 

ME. 'H/iet? 8' av ')(^p(i)fieda /nev, koI eoiKe ye 
Kparelv rrcov toiovtcov TTOirjTMV ov fievrot AaKW- 
1 iKov ye, ciWd riva fidWov ^Iwvikov filov hie^ep- 
D %eTat eKciaTOTe. vvv /xt)v ev tw (tu> Xoyw eoiKC 
fiaprvpelv, ro dp'x^alov avTwv eVi ttjv dypLOTrjTa 
Sid fivdo\oyLa<i eiraveveyKMV. 

A0. Nai" ^v/jLfuipTvpel yap Kal Xa/Sto/iev ye 
avrov firji^vTTjp on roiavrai iroKnelai yiyvovTai 
TTore. 

KA. KaX<M9- 

A0. M(ov ovv ovK eK rovrcov rwv Kara p,iav 
oiKrjaLv Kal Kara yei>o<i BiecTrapfievwv vtto dTropca<; 
rr]<i ev ral<i (f)Oopal<;, ev ol<; ro irpea^vrarov apx^'' 
8id rb rrjv dp^V^ avroi<; eK Trarpo? koI /Mrjrpo^ 
E ')eyovevai, oI? eTrofievoc KaOdirep opvtOe^ dyeXrjv 
fiiav •noirjaovai, Trarpovo/jLov/ievoi, Kai jSaaiXetav 
Tracrayv SiKaiordrrjv /SaaiXevo/jLCVOi ; 
178 



LAWS, BOOK III 

with the household system of the Cyclopes, where he 
says — 

" No halls of council and no laws are theirs. 
But within hollow caves on mountain heights 
Aloft they dwell, each making his own law 
For wife and child ; of others reck they naught," 

CLIN. This poet of yours seems to have been a 
man of genius. We have also read other verses of 
his, and they were extremely fine ; though in truth 
we have not read much of him, since we Cretans do 
not indulge much in foreign poetry. 

MEG. But we Spartans do, and we regard Homer 
as the best of them ; all the same, the mode of life 
he describes is always Ionian rather than Laconian. 
And now he appears to be confirming your statement 
admirably, when in his legendary account he ascribes 
the primitive habits of the Cyclopes to their 
savagery. 

ATH. Yes, his testimony supports us ; so let us 
take him as evidence that polities of this sort do 
sometimes come into existence. 

cuN. Quite right. 

ATH. Did they not originate with those people 
who lived scattered in separate clans or in single 
households, owing to the distress which followed 
after the catastrophes ; for amongst these the eldest 
holds rule, owing to the fact that the rule proceeds 
from the parents, by following whom they form a 
single flock, like a covey of birds, and live under a 
patriarchal government and a kingship which is of 
all kingships the most just? 



179 



PLATO 

KA. Tldvv fl€V ovv, 

A0. Mera he ravrd ye et? to kolvov fieii^ov^ 
<7roifjLva<i>^ 7ToiovvT€<; [7r6\et9] ttXciov; avvepyov- 
rac, Kai eiri yewpyia^ ra? iv ral^ virwpeiai'i rpi- 
681 TTovrai TTpcora^, irept^oXovi re ai/jLacncoB6i<; riva({ 
rei^fwy <t'>^ epvftaTa roiv drjptcov evexa noiovv- 
rai, fMtav oiKiav av kolvtjv koI fieydXrjv d-nore- 
\ovvTe<;. 

KA. To yovv elKOf ravd^ ovtq) yiyveadai. 

A0. Tt 8e ; ToSe apa ovk eiKO'i ; 

KA. To TTolov ; 

A0. Toil' oiK^aetov tovtcov fiei^ovcov av^avo- 
fievwv ex -roiv iXaTTOvcov fcal Trpcorcov, eKdarijv 
TMV 0p.tKpot)v Trapeivat Kara yevo^ exovaav top 
B T€ irpea^vTarov dp^oPTa koX avrr]<i eOrj drra 
i8ia 8td TO ')((iipl^ dWrfkayv oiKelv, erepa a^' 
irepajv ovrwv tcov yevv^^ropcov re kol Opeyjrdvriav 
a eWicrdrjaav irepl deov<; re Kal €avrov<; Kocrfiico- 
repoiv fiev KO(xp,i(orepa koX dvBpiKcov dvSpiKcorepa' 
Kal Kara rporrov ovrw^ €Kdarov<; rd<; avrSiv dv 
aipecrei^ ' el<i roix; TratSa? dirorvirov jxevovi Kal 
rraihayv rralha<i, o Xeyofiev, rjK6Lv ex,ovra<; l8i,ov<i 
vofMov^ els Trjv p.ei^ova ^vvoiKiav. 

KA. n&i? yap ov ; 
A0. Kai fJLTjv rov<; ye aiiroiv vofiovf; dpecrKeiv 
eKd(TroL<i dvayKalov ttov, rov<i be r&v aXXcov 
varepovs. 

KA. Oirrft)?. 

A0. ^Apxf} ht} vofj,odeaLa(f olov e/x^dvrc'i eXd- 
Oofiev, (w? eoiKev. 

^ <.iroiiJivas> I add, and bracket [v6\eis]. 
2 <t'> added by W -MoUendorflf. 

i8o 



LAWS, BOOK III 

CLIN. Most certainly. 

ATH. Next, they congregate together in greater 
numbers, and form larger droves ; and first they 
turn to farming on the hill-sides, and make ring- 
fences of rubble and walls to ward off wild beasts, 
till finally they have constructed a single large 
common dwelling. 

CLIN. It is certainly probable that such was the 
course of events. 

ATH. Well, is not this also probable ? 

CLIN. What ? 

ATH. That, while these larger settlements were 
growing out of the original small ones, each of the 
small settlements continued to retain, clan by 
clan, both the rule of the eldest and also some 
customs derived from its isolated condition and 
peculiar to itself. As those who begot and reared 
them were different, so these customs of theirs, 
relating to the gods and to themselves, differed, 
being more orderly where their forefathers had been 
orderly, and more brave where they had been brave ; 
and as thus the fathers of each clan in due course 
stamped upon their children and children's children 
their own cast of mind, these people came (as we 
say) into the larger community furnished each with 
their own peculiar laws. 

CLIN. Of course. 

ATH. And no doubt each clan was well pleased 
with its own laws, and less well with those of its 
neighbours. 

CLIN. True. 

ATH. Unwittingly, as it seems, we have now set 
foot, as it were, on the starting-point of legislation. 

* iv cdpifffis Schneider, Hermann : araipiatis MSS. 

i8i 



PLATO 

KA. Udvv fiev ovv. 

A0. To <yovv fxera raina ava'yKalov alpetaOai 
Toi»9 (TVV€KttovTa<i Tovrovf; KOLvovi Tipa<; eavrcDv, 
oi St] to, TTavTcov l86vTe<i vofiifia, to, a^ianv dpea- 
Kovra avToyv fidXiara eh to kolvov toI<; ■qyefiocri 
Kat a'ya'yovai tov<; 8t]fx,ov^ olov /SaaiXevcri (ftavepd 
D 8ec^avT€<i iXeaOai re 86vT€<i, avrol fiev vofioderai 
KXrjOijaovTac, Toi)^ Se ap')^ovTa<; KaTaaTi](ravTe<;, 
apKTTOKpaTLav Tiva ck t5>v Swaareicov TronjaavTa 
7) Kai Tiva /3aacX€i'av, ev Tavrrj ttj fiera^oXr} t^? 
TToXiTeta? oiKr)(TovaLV. 

KA. E(j}€^fj<i yovv av ovrci) re koI ravTrj 
yiyvoiro. 

Ae. TpiTov Toivvv etiroyfiev en TroXtr€la<; a'x^rjp.a 
•yiyvofievov, iv u> 8r) iravra €187] koI iradrjpara 
iroXneiMv koI dpa TToXecov ^v/nrtTrrei yiyveadai. 
E KA. To TTolov hrj TOVTO ; 

A0. " O p^era ro SevTcpov kuI "Op,r}po<i eirear]- 
p.i]varo, Xiycov to rpirov ovtco jeyovevai,' KTLcrae 
Be AapSavlrjv yap irov <^r}cn,v, 

eVel ovTrco "iXto? Ipi] 
iv Treoift) TreTroXicrro, TroXt? p-epoTTtov dvdpco- 

ircov, 
aXX' eO' vircopeia'; <aKovv iroXvirihaKov "IS?;?. 

682 Xiyei yap Brj ravTU ra eirrj koI CKeiva a irepl tmv 
K.VKX(07rcov eipr]K6 Kara 6e6v irco^ elprip,eva Koi 
Kara (pvaiw delov yap ovv hrj koI to ttoitjtikov 
[evdeaariKov^ ^ ov yevo<i vfiva)8ovv iroXXSiv rSiv 

* [ivOta<rriKhv'\ bracketed by Boeckh, Schanz. 
183 



LAWS, BOOK III 

cuN. We have indeed. 

ATH. The next step necessary is that these people 
should come together and choose out some members 
of each clan who, after a survey of the legal usages 
of all the clans, shall notify publicly to the tribal 
leaders and chiefs (who may be termed their •' kings ") 
which of those usages please them best, and shall 
recommend their adoption. These men will them- 
selves be named "legislators," and when they have 
established the chiefs as " magistrates," and have 
framed an aristocracy, or possibly even a monarchy, 
from the existing plurality of " headships," they will 
live under the constitution thus transformed. 

CLIN. The next steps would certainly be such as 
you describe. 

ATH. Let us go on to describe the rise of a third 
form of constitution, in which are blended all kinds 
and varieties of constitutions, and of States as well.^ 

CLIN. What form is that ? 

ATH. The same that Homer himself mentioned 
next to the second, when he said that the third form 
arose in this way. His verses * run thus — 

" Dardania he founded when as yet 
The holy keep of Ilium was not built 
Upon the plain, a town for mortal folk. 
But still they dwelt upon the highland slopes 
Of many-fountain'd Ida." 

Indeed, these verses of his, as well as those he utteis 
concerning the Cyclopes, are in a kind of unison with 
the voices of both God and Nature. For being 
divinely inspired in its chanting, the poetic tribe, 

* For this " mixed " polity of the " city of the plain," cp. 
the description of democracy in Rep. 557 D fif. 
2 n. XX. 216 S. 

183 



PLATO 

Kar a\i)0eiav '^I'^vofievayv ^vv riai X.dpiai Kal 
Moucrat? e<f)dTrT6rai eKaarore. 

KA. Kal fiaXa. 

Ae. Et? Bt) to rrrpocrOev rrpoekdwixev eri rov vvv 
i7re\0ovTO<; tj/jlIv /j,vOov. Ta^a yap av crrjfij^veLe 
TL T7}9 rjp^eTepa^ irepc ^ovXijcreco^. ovkovv ')(^prj ; 
B KA. Tidvv fiev ovV' 

Ae. K-aTaKLaOr] 8i], (fyajxiv, €k twv v-^rfKoiv eh 
fieya re koi koKov ttcSlov "iXcov, eVt XocfiOP riva 
ovx v-^rfXov KaX e')(^ovTa TroTa/xov'i ttoXXou? 
dvooBev e'/c t/)? ^I8r)<; oiip/j,i]/j,evov^. 

KA. ^aal <yovv. 

A0. 'A /a' OVV ovK iv ttoWoi^ Tial ')(p6voc<; toc<; 
fiera rov KaraxXva/xov tovto olofieOa yeyopevai ; 

KA. Ho)? 3' OVK iv iroWoZ'i ; 

A0. AeiVT} yovv eoLKev avroi^ \rj0rf Tore irap- 

C eivai rr]<i vvv \eyofievr)<; <pOopd<;, 60' oyrtw? viro 

7roTafiov<; ttoXXou? /cal €k rcov vyjrr)\cbv peovTw; 

TToXiv vireOecrav, Triarevaavre'i ov a(p68pa vyjrrjXolii 

rial Xocpoi^. 

KA. Ar]Xov OVV ft)? TTavTairaai riva fiUKpbv 
diTel-)(^ov 'xpovov Tov toiovtov 7rddov<:. 

A0. Kal dXXai ye, olfiai, TroXet? roTe kutwkovv 
r]Br) iroXXal ttXtjOvovtcov rcov dvdpooTrcoV' 

KA, Tl iirjv ; 

A0. Ar ye TTOV koX eTrecrrparevaavro avrrj, xal 
Kara ddXarrav Se ia(o<;, a0o/9(U9 57877 irdvrayv 
'^(pco/xevoov rfi OdXdrrrj. 
D KA. ^aiverai. 

Ae. Ae/tra S' errj rrov p.€ivavre<; ^A')(aiql rrjv 
Tpoi'av dvdcrrarov eirotrja-av. 

KA. Kal fidXa. 
t«4 



LAWS, BOOK III 

with the aid of Graces and Muses, often grasps the 
truth of history. 

CLIN. It certainly does. 

ATH. Now let us advance still further in the 
tale that now engages us ; for possibly it may furnish 
some hint regarding the matter we have in view. 
Ought we not to do so ? 

CLIN. Most certainly. 

ATH. Ilium was founded, we say, after moving 
from the highlands down to a large and noble plain, 
on a hill of no great height which had many rivers 
flowing down from Ida above. 

CLIN. So they say. 

ATH. And do we not suppose that this took place 
many ages after the Deluge } 

CLIN. Many ages after, no doubt. 

ATM. At any rate they seem to have been strangely 
forgetful of the catastrophe now mentioned, since 
they placed their city, as described, under a number 
of rivers descending from the mount, and relied for 
their safety upon hillocks of no great height. 

CLIN. So it is evident that they were removed by 
quite a long interval from that calamity. 

ATH. By this time, too, as mankind multiplied, 
many other cities had been founded. 

CLIN. Of course. 

ATH. And these cities also made attacks on Ilium, 
probably by sea too, as well as by land, since by this 
time all made use of the sea fearlessly. 

CUN. So it appears. 

ATH. And after a stay of ten years the Achaeans 
sacked Troy. 

CLIN. Very true. 



185 



PLATO 

Ae. OvKovv iv TOVTQ) TO) ')(^p6v(a, ovri SeKerei, 
ov TO "IXiov eiToXLopKelro, ra tcov TroXiopKovvTwp 
eKaarcov oXkol kuko, iroWa ^vve^aive yiyvofieva 
irepl Ta9 (ndaeif; rSiv vecov, ot koX acfyiKO/xevovi 
Tov<i crTpaTi(i)Ta<i eh ra? avTOJV TroA-et? re xal 
E olKva<i ov /caX«09 ouS' iv SIkt} vTreSe^avro, aW' 
o)(TT€ davdrov^ T€ koI acfjaydi; kuI (f)vya<; yeveadai 
Tra/j,7r6XXa<i' ot TcdXiv eKTrecrovre^; KaTrjXdov fie- 
Ta^aX6vT€<; opo/j,a, Acopir]i; dvT 'A'x^aicov kXt}- 
0evT€<i Bia TO TOP avXXe^avra elvac Ta<; rore (fivydii 
Acoptd. Kol 8r] Taind ye ijStj irdvS' vp.el'i, o) 
AuKeSaifMovcoi, rdvrevdev fivdoXoyelre re kuI 
BiaTrepaCv€T€. 

ME. Tt firjv ; 

A0. "Odev Br] Kar dp-)(^d^ i^er pa-rr 6 p,e6 a irepl 
vojxwv BiaXeyofievoi, Trepnveaovre'i /xova-iKrj re kuI 
raU /iiedai'i, vvv eirl rd avrd irdXiv d(f)iy/j,eda 
coaTrep Kara deov, koI 6 X0709 rjjxiv olov Xa^rjv 
diroBiScoaiv rjKei yap eirl rrjv ei<; AuKeSal/xova 
683 KarotKiaLv avrrjv, fjv vfxeL<i 6pdSi<; e(j>are KarcfiKia- 
6ai^ KaX YLprjTrjv co? dheX<^ol<i vo/xot^. vvv ovv Btj 
ToaovBe TrXeove/CTOv/xev rrj irXdvy rov Xoyov, Bid 
iroXireicov rivcov kol KaroiKia p^wv Bie^eXdovre^' 
edeaadfieda irpdorrjv re koI Bevrepav kcu rpirrjv 
TToXiv, aXXriXoyv, o)? olofieda, ral^ KaroiKiaeaiv 

* KOTtfKlffdai Ast ; /fOToiK«r(rflai MSS- 

^ We do not hear of him elsewhere ; and the account here 
is so vague that it is hard to say what events (or traditions) 
are alluded to. The usual story is that Dorian invaders 
drove out the Achaeans from S. Greece (about 900 B.O.). 

» Cp. 638 D. 

t^6 



LAWS, BOOK III 

ATH. Now during this period of ten years, while 
the siege lasted, the affairs of each of the besiegers 
at home suffered much owing to the seditious con- 
duct of the young men. For when the soldiers 
returned to their own cities and homes, these young 
people did not receive them fittingly and justly, but 
in such a way that there ensued a vast number of 
cases of death, slaughter, and exile. So they, being 
again driven out, migrated by sea ; and because 
Dorieus ^ was the man who then banded together the 
exiles, they got the new name of " Dorians," instead 
of " Achaeans." But as to all the events that follow 
this, you Lacedaemonians relate them all fully in 
your traditions, 

MEG. Quite true. 

ATH. And now — as it were by divine direction — 
we have returned once more to the very point in 
our discourse on laws where we made our digression,^ 
when we plunged into the subject of music and 
drinking-parties ; and we can, so to speak, get a 
fresh grip upon the argument, now that it has 
reached this point, — the settlement of Lacedaemon, 
about which you said truly that it and Crete were 
settled under kindred laws. From the wandering 
course of our argument, and our excursion through 
various polities and settlements, we have now gained 
this much : we have discerned a first, a second and 
a third State,^ all, as we suppose, succeeding one 
another in the settlements which took place during 

'i.e. (1) the family or clan, under patriarchal "head- 
ship" ; (2) the combination of clans under an aristocracy (or 
monarchy) ; (3) the "mixed" State (or " city of the plain," 
like Troy); and (4) the confederacy, consisting, in the 
example, of three States leagued together. 

187 



PLATO 

e')(pfi,eva<i ev xpovov tivo^ fiiJKeaiv aTrXerot?. vvv 
8e St) Terdpri] rt? rj/xlv avrij TToXt?, el Se /SovXeade, 
eOvos rjKei KaToiKi^ofxevov re irore koI vvv KaroiKia- 
B fievov. e^ wv aTrcivTcov ei re ^vveivai hwdfieda 
ri T€ Ka\(o<i Tj fit) KUToiKiaOr], kuI ttolol v6/u,oi 
(TM^ovaiv avTcbv to, (rm^ofxeva kui ttoIol c^Oeipovai 
ra (f)0€ipo/xeva, Kai dvrl ttolmv irola fieTareOevTa 
evSaifiova iroXiv direpyd^oir dv, oi ^le'ytXK.e re 
Kol KXetwa, ravra 8r) irdXiv olov i^ ^PXV^ 'q/J-tv 
XcKTeov, el ixrj n to2<; elpr)p,evot<; eyKaXov/iiev Xoyoi'i. 
ME. Et yovv, 0) ^eve, ri<; rjfiiv virocr'^otTo Oeo'i 
C ft)?, edv eTn-)(eiprjaoi jxev to SevTepov rfj t?}? vofio- 
deaia^ aKeyjrei, tcov vvv elprj^evoiv Xoycov ov 
^ei/9oi;9 ouS' eXaTTOf? aKovaofxeOa, /xa/cpdv dv 
eXBot/jLi eycoye, Kai fioc 0pa')(e'L dv So^eiev 77 vvv 
irapovaa rjfxepa ytyvecrOai. Kai toi a'^^eSov y 
earlv 1) ck Oepivcov eh rd 'xeifiepivd rov deov 
rpeTTOfxevov. 

A0. Xpr) 8r} ravra, co? eocKe, aKoireiv. 
ME. Tldvv fxev ovv. 

A0. VevdiixeOa 8t) rai<i Siavoiai^ ev ra> rore 
'X^povm, ore AaKe8aip,cov fiev Kai "Apyo<; Kai Mea- 
(Tijvr) Kai rd fxerd rovrcov vno^eipta roU rrpoyo- 
D voL'i v/j,(t)V, Si yieyiXXe, iKava><i eyeyover rb Be 87] 
fierd rovro e8o^ev avrol<;, cu9 ye Xeyerai to rov 
pLvOov, TpiXV "^^ (rrpdrev/xa 8iaveL/j,avra<; rpet? 
Tr6Xei<} KarocKi^eiv, "A/j-yo?, M.€a<ri]vr]v, AaKe8ai- 
fiova. 

ME. Yidvv /xev ovv. 

Ae. Kai ^a(TiXev<; fiev ^Apyov<i Ttj/xevo'; eyiy- 
vero, M.€aa-i]vr]<; 8e Kpea<p6vrr)<i, AaKe8aifiovo^ 8k 
T\poKXri<i Kai Rvpva6evrj<;. 

xas 



LAWS, BOOK III 

vast ages of time. And now there has emerged this 
fourth State — or "nation," if you so prefer — which 
was once upon a time in course of estabHshment and 
is now established. Now, if we can gather from all 
this which of these settlements was right and which 
wrong, and which laws keep safe what is kept safe, 
and which laws ruin what is ruined, and what 
changes in what particulars would effect the happi- 
ness of the State, — then, O Megillus and Clinias, 
we ought to describe these things again, making a 
fresh start from the beginning, — unless we have 
some fault to find with our previous statements. 

MEG. I can assure you, Stranger, that if some 
god were to promise us that, in making this second 
attempt to investigate legislation, we shall listen to 
a discourse that is no worse and no shorter than that 
we have just been listening to, I for one would go a 
long way to hear it ; indeed, this would seem quite 
a short day, although it is, as a matter of fact, close 
on midsummer. 

ATH. So it seems that we must proceed with our 
enquiry. 

MEG. Most certainly. 

ATH. Let us, then, place ourselves in imagination 
at that epoch when Lacedaemon, together with Argos 
and Messene and the adjoining districts, had become 
completely subject, Megillus, to your forefathers. 
They determined next, according to the tradition, 
to divide their host into three parts, and to establish 
three States, — Argos, Messene and Lacedaemon. 

MEG. Very true. 

ATH. And Temenus became King of Argos, Cres- 
phontes of Messene, and Procles and Eurysthenes 
of I..acedaemon. 

189 



PLATO 

ME. ITfti? 'yap ov ; 

A0. Kal 7rdvTe<i Br) tovtoi^ a>/jiO(Tav oi Tore 
E ^or]0/](Teiv, edv ti<; ttjv jBaaiKeiav avrSiv BcacfideipT]. 

ME. Tt fj,7]v ; 

A0. BacTiXeta he KaraXverac, (o 7rp6<} Aio?, -^ 
«:at Tf9 o,pXV TTftjTroTe KareX-vdr) ficov vvo tivcov 
aWwv 7] a^wv avTcov ; t] vvv Bt) fiev [oXiyov 
e/XTvpoadev] ^ tovtoi^ TT6piTV)(6m€<; toI<{ \6yoi,<i 
ovT(o ravT eTcdefiev, vvv S' iTTiXeXrjcrfjLeda ; 

ME. Kal 7ra)9 / 

A0. OvKOvv vvv Br) fidWov ^e^aiwcrofieda to 
roiovTOv irepnv^ovTe^ yap €pyoi<; yevofievoL<i, to? 
€oiK€v, eVt rov avTOV \6yov i\r)Xv6afi€v, tocrre ov 
vepl Kevov ti i^i)Tr)(jop.ev \tov avrov X6yov\^ oKXa 
684 TTepX yeyov6<i re Kal e^ov dXrjdeiav. yiyove Br) 
rdBe' ^aaiXetai T/)et? ^a(TcX€vofxevai<i iroXecn 
rpiTTal^ lofjboaav dXXr)Xai<i eKdrepai, Kara vofiovi; 
ov<i eOevro rov re dp-x^eiv Kal apxecdai Koivovt, 
oi fxev p-T) ^latorepav rrjv dp')(r)v TTOnjaeaBai 
trpolovro'i rov "^povov Kal yevov<i, ol Be ravra 
ep-ireBovvroiv roov dp^^^ovrcov iMrjre avrol ra<; ^aat- 
Xem? TTore KaraXvaetv pLTjr iirirpeylreiv e'nL)(ei- 
povaiv erepoL<i, ^or}$7Jaei.v Be ^a(TiXr)(; re ^acn- 
B XevaLv dBiKov/j,evoi^ Kal Bijfioi'i Kal Brjp.01- Brjp.oi'i 
Kal ^aaiXevaiv dBiKoufxevofi. ap ovx ovr(i><i ; 

ME. OvTco p,ev ovv. 

A0. OiiKovv ro ye puiyiarov rai<i Karaardaeai 
ra)v TToXireccov t'7r?}/9^6 rat? ev rac<; rpccrl TroXecri 
vo/j,o6erov/u,evai<i, eire ol ^aa-iXr)'; evofjuoOerovv elr 
aXXoi rive<; ; 

' [oKlyov HjjLvpoffOev] bracketed by Cobet, Schanz. 
* [rbv . . . \6yov] bracketed by Badliam, Schanz. 

190 



LAWS, BOOK III 

MEG. Of course. 

ATH. And all the men of that time swore that 
they would assist these kings if anyone should try 
to wreck their kingdoms. 

MEG. Quite so. 

ATH. Is the dissolution of a kingdom, or of 
any government that has ever yet been dissolved, 
caused by any other agency than that of the rulers 
themselves ? Or, though we made this assertion a 
moment ago when we happened upon this subject, 
have we now forgotten it ? ^ 

MEG. How could we possibly have forgotten? 

ATH. Shall we further confirm that assertion now ? 
For we have come to the same view now, as it appears, 
in dealing with facts of history ; so that we shall be 
examining it with reference not to a mere abstraction, 
but to real events. Now what actually took place 
was this : each of the three royal houses, and the 
cities under their sway, swore to one another,^ 
according to the laws, binding alike on ruler and 
subject, which they had made, — the rulers that, as 
time went on and the nation advanced, they would 
refrain from making their rule more severe, and the 
subjects that, so long as the rulers kept fast to their 
promise, they would never upset the monarchy 
themselves, nor would they allow others to do so ; 
and they swore that the kings should aid both kings 
and peoples when wronged, and the peoples aid both 
peoples and kings. Was not that the way of it ? 

MEG. It was. 

ATH. In the polities legally established — whether 
by the kings or others — in the three States, was not 
this the most important principle ? 

1 Cp. 682 D, E. » Cp. 692 B. 

191 



PLATO 

ME. Uoiov ; 

A0. To ^orjdov^ ye elvai ra^i 8vo cttI ttjv ^liav 
aei TTokiv, Trjv Tot? reOeiai vofioa direiOovaav. 

ME. ArjXov. 

A0. Kat /u.^i' TOVTo ye ol ttoWoI TTpoaTUTTOvai 
C Totf vo/xo6€Tai<:, ottoj? ToiovTov<; drjcrovaL rov<; 
vofiovi ou? €k6vt€^ 01 Bijfxoc KoX TO, ttXtjOi] Bi- 
^ovrai, KaOdirep av et rif yv/xvaa-Tal^ rj laTpol<i 
TrpoardTTOi fied^ rjBopyj'i depaireveiv re Kol Idadai 
TO, depairevofieva aMfiara. 

ME. Uavrdiracn /xev ovv. 

A0. To 8e 7' iarXv dyairriTov 7ro\XdKi<; el kul 
Ti9 fieTCL \v7rrj<; firj fieydX^i^i Bvvano eveKTiKd re 
Kal iiyir) (jdifxaTa direpyd^eaOai. 

ME. Tt p,i)v ; 
D A0. Kal roBe ye eVt rol'i Tore inrrjp')(ev ov 
(TfiiKpbv et? paaT(ovT]v t?}<? deaea^ Tb>v vopnov. 

ME. To TTOiOV ; 

A0. OvK rjv T0i9 vo/j,od€Tai<; 17 fieyicnr) tcov 
p.ifiyp'ecov, laoTrjra avrol^ rivd KaracrKevd^ovai 
T//9 ovalai^, rjTrep ev dWrj ^ vo^o6eTovixevai<; 
TToXeai 7roA.Xai9 yiyverai, edv Tt9 ^V'^V 7^"> '^^ 
KTTjaiv KLvelv KaX ^(^pewv BidXvcriv, opoiv ci)9 ovk 
av BvvaiTO dvev rovrcov yevecrdat, iroje to Xaov 
iKav(ii<i' a>9 eTTLy^eipovvTi, Br) vofwOirrj Kcvelv rfav 
E TotovT(ov ri 7ra9 diravTO, Xeywv firj Ktvelv tu 
aKLvtira, Kal eTrapdrai 7779 re dvaBaafiov<i ela- 
iiyovfxevu) ^ Kal ')(^peS)v diroKOTrd^, oxtt el<i diropiav 
xaOiaraadai Trdvra dvBpa. T0t9 Be Brj Acopievtrt 

1 &\\ti England: HWais Zur., al. : aWv^ais MSS. 

^ flartyovixivif H. Richards, England : flaijyoififvoy MSS. 



LAWS, BOOK III 

MEG. What ? 

ATH. That the other two States should always 
help against the third, whenever it disobeyed the 
laws laid down. 

MEG. Evidently. 

ATH. And surely most people insist on this, — 
that the lawgivers shall enact laws of such a kind 
that the masses of the people accept them willingly ; 
just as one might insist that trainers or doctors 
should make their treatments or cures of men's 
bodies pleasurable. 

MEG. Exactly so. 

ATH. But in fact one often has to be content il 
one can bring a body into a sound and healthy state 
with no great amount of pain. 

MEG. Very true. 

ATH. The men of that age possessed also another 
advantage which helped not a little to facilitate 
legislation.^ 

MEG. What was that .'' 

ATH. Their legislators, in their efforts to establish 
equality of property, were free from that worst of 
accusations which is commonly incurred in States 
with laws of a different kind, whenever anyone seeks 
to disturb the occupation of land, or to propose the 
abolition of debts, since he perceives that without 
these measures equality could never be fully secured. 
In such cases, if the lawgiver attempts to disturb 
any of these things, everyone confronts him with 
the cry, " Hands off," and they curse him for intro- 
ducing redistributions of land and remissions of 
debts, with the result that every man is rendered 
powerless. But the Dorians had this further advan- 

» Cp. 736 C. 

195 



PLATO 

Koi Tovd^ OUTO)? V7rr]p')(e /caXoi? kuI avefiearjrcof;, 
yrjv re dva/ji<f>i(T^r)ri]Ta><i 8iavefx,€a6at, koI %/3ea 
fief^aXa kcu TraXaia ovk tjv. 

ME. *A\r}dr]. 

A0. n^ 87^ TTOTC OVV, Si dpKTTOl, KaKCi)<? OUTft)? 

avTol^ i-ycoprjaev rj KaroLKiaLS re koi yofiodecrCa ; 
685 ME. Ilco9 677, Koi ri fM€/x(f>6/x€vo<i avrcov \eyet<i ; 

A0. ' On rptMv <yevop,evci)v rcop olKrjcrewv to. 
hvo avTcov p-eprj ra'xy rijv re TroXiTeiav xal tou? 
v6fiov<; Biecfideipe, to Se ev pLOVov ep^eive, to Tfj<; 
vp,€T€pa<; 7roXe&)9. 

ME. Ov irdvv paBiov ipoiTa<i. 

A0. AWa prjv Bel <ye rjpd^ tovto ev t& vvv 

(TK07rovvra<i Kal e^erd^ovraf;, irepl vopwv irai- 

^ovTa<i TratSidv irpea^VTiKrjv acocppova, SieXdelv 

B TTjv 686v dXvTTco^, o)9 €(f)ap€V ■^viKa rjp-^opeda 

TTopeveaOac. 

ME. Tt p.'^v ; Kol iroirjreov ye d)<; Xeyet?. 

A0. Ttr OVV av (TKeylnv KaWio) TroirjcraipLeda 
vepl vop,ci}v rj tovtcov 01 ravTa^ BiaK€Koa-p,7]Kaa-iv ; 
rj TToXeoiv irepX tIvcov evBoKtpcoTepcov re Kal fiei- 
^6v(ov KaToiKLaewv a-Konoiped' dv ; 

ME. Ov pahiov dvrl tovtcov erepa? Xeyecv. 

A0. OvKovv on p,ev Sievoovvro ye 01 totc tj^v 

KaTacTKevrjv tuvttjv ov Tle\o7rovv7]<r a povov eae- 

C aOai ^OT}66v iKavrjv, a')(ehov hrjkov, dWd Kal toi<; 

' EXX,?7<rt irdaiv, et rt? tmv fiap^dpcov avTOv<i 

dSiKoi, Kaddirep ol irepl to ^'IXlov olKovvT€<i totc, 

* i.e. the Dorian settlers, by right of conquest, were free 
to do as they pleased : none of the old owners or creditors 
could assert rights or claims. 

^94 



LAWS, BOOK III 

tage, that they were free from all dread of giving 
offence, so that they could divide up their land 
without dispute; and they had no large debts of 
old standing. '^ 

MEG. True. 

ATM. How was it then, my good sirs, that their 
settlement and legislation turned out so badly? 

MEG. What do you mean ? What fault have you 
to find with it ? 

ATH. This, that whereas there were three States 
settled, two of the three ^ speedily wrecked their 
constitution and their laws, and one only remained 
stable — and that was your State, Megillus. 

MEG. The question is no easy one. 

ATH. Yet surely in our consideration and enquiry 
into this subject, indulging in an old man's sober 
play with laws, we ought to proceed on our journey 
painlessly, as we said ^ when we first started out. 

MEG. Certainly, we must do as you say. 

ATH. Well, what laws would offer a better subject 
for investigation than the laws by which those 
States were regulated? Or what larger or more 
famous States are there about whose settling we 
might enquire ? 

MEG. It would be hard to mention better instances 
than these. 

ATH. It is fairly evident that the men of that 
age intended this organisation of theirs to serve as 
an adequate protection not only for the Pelopon- 
nesus, but for the whole of Hellas as well, in case 
any of the barbarians should attack them — ^just as 
the former dwellers around Ilium were emboldened 

» viz. Argos and Messene, — the third being Laconia. 
3 Cp. 625 B. 

»9S 



PLATO 

^Ivov <y€Vo/jL€vij, Opaavvo/jLevoi tov iroXefiov rjyei- 
pav TOP eirl Tpotav. r)v 'yap eVt to t>7<> apyrj<i 
€K€ivr]<; ax^P'CL to a(o^6/j.€vov ov ajxiKpov. Ka- 
ddirep vvv top fxeyav ^aaiXea (f)Oj3ovfMeda ■^fiei^, 
KoX Tore eKeivqv rrjv avaraOelaav avvra^iv eSe- 
Sicrav 01 Tore. fieya jap ejKXrjfjUi tt/jo? avTov<; 

D rj rfj^ Tpoia'i d\ai(Ti,<; to hemepov iyejoper t^? 
a.pxv'i 7^P Tti'i eKeivwv rjv fxopiov. 7rpo<i Srj ravT 
Tjv ■"• irdvTa r) rov arparoTreBov tov rore Siape/XTj- 
6eiaa et? rpel^ TroXei^ KaracTKevr) fiia vtto ^aat- 
XecDV aBeXcbofP, iralScov 'Hpa/cX-eou?, /caXco?, eo? ^ 
€ooK€C, avevpT]/jbevT] Kai KaraKeKoa pbTjfievq Kai 
Bia(f)€povTO}<; T% eVt ttjv Tpoiav d^iKop,evr)<;. 
TrpMTov jxev yap rov<; 'HpaKXelSw; twv IleXo- 
TTihoiiv d/LL6ivov<; r]yovvTO dp^ovrcov dp^ovra'i e^etv, 

E eTrecT av to crrpaTOTreSov tovto tov cttI TpoicLv 
dcjiiKo/xevov Siacfyipeiv irpo^ dpeTrjV veviKijKevai 
yap T0VT0V<i, rjTTijadai^ 8' vtto tovtcov eKeivov;, 
^ A.'x^a.iom ovtu^ vtto AcopLecov. ap" ov^ ovt(o<; 
olofxeOa Kai tj} Ziavoia ravTrj KaraaKevd^eadai 

TOl'9 T0T6 ; 

ME. Udvv fiev ovv. 

A0. OuKOvv Kul to fie^aia)<i oteadai, TavO^ 

e^eiv cIko^ avrov^ xal ')(^p6vov tiv av iroXvv 

686 fieveiv, are KeKoivcovrjKOTai; p,ev ttoXXwv ttovwv 

Kai KLvhvvcov dXXrjXoi^, vtto yevov<i 8e evo? Twi" 

^aaiXicov d8eX<f)(t)v optcov SiaKeKoafirj/xevov^;, TTyoo? 

* ravT ?iv Schneider : ravrriv MSS. : Tavra Zur., vulg, 

" &s MSS. , omitted by Staph., Zur. 

^ 7irT7i<rdai Boeckh, Schanz: TjTTaffdat MSS. 

196 



LAWS, BOOK III 

to embark on the Trojan War through reliance on 
the Assyrian power as it had been in the reign of 
Ninus.^ For much of the splendour of that empire 
still survived ; and the people of that age stood in 
fear of its confederate power, just as we men of to-day 
dread the Great King. For since Troy was a part of 
the Assyrian empire, the second ^ capture of Troy 
formed a grave charge against the Greeks. It was 
in view of all this that the Dorian host was at that 
time organised and distributed amongst three States 
under brother princes, the sons of Heracles ; ^ and 
men thought it admirably devised, and in its equip- 
ment superior even to the host that had sailed to 
Troy. For men reckoned, first, that in the sons of 
Heracles they had better chiefs than the Pelopidae,* 
and further, that this army was superior in valour to 
the army which went to Troy, since the latter, which 
was Achaean, was worsted by the former, which was 
Dorian. Must we not suppose that it was in this 
way, and with this intention, that the men of that 
age organised themselves? 

MEG. Certainly. 

ATH. Is it not also probable that they would 
suppose this to be a stable arrangement, and likely 
to continue quite a long time, since they had shared 
together many toils and dangers, and were marshal- 
led under leaders of a single family (their princes 
being brothers), and since, moreover, they had con- 

* The mythical founder of the Assyrian empire, husband 
of Semiramis, and builder of Nineveh (dated about 2200 B.C.). 

* The first "capture" was by Heracles, in the reign of 
Laomedon, father of Priam. Cp. //, v. 640 flF. 

' 112. Temsnus, king of Argos, Procles and Eurysthenee of 
Laconia, Cresphontes of Messene. 

* viz. Agamemnon and Menelaus. 

197 



PLATO 

TOVTOl^ 8 €Tl Kol TToWot? fldvTeCTl Ke')(pr)fjLeVOV<i 

€Lvai Tot<f re aWoi^ koX T(p A€\(f)iKa> * ATroWfovi ; 

ME. IIoo? h ovK €Ik6<; ; 

A0. TavTa Sr) to, /j,€yaX.a ovtco TrpocrSoKcofieva 
oi€7rraTo, (09 eoiKe, Tore 'Ta')(y, ttXtju oirep eonofiev 
vvv 8rj (TfiiKpov jMepov; rov irepl top vjxeTepov 
B TOTTOV Kal rovTo Srj rrpo'? ra 8vo f^eprj TroXe/xovp 
ov TTooTTOTe 7r€7ravTat P'€)(^pi' to, vvv iirel yepo/jiivrj 
ye r) Tore Bidvoia koX ^vfM(f)Q)v/)aa<Ta ei? ev dv- 
VTTocTTaTOv CIV Tiva 8vva/j,iv ea')(e Kara TroXe/Juov. 

ME- Ilfti? yap ov ; 

A0. TiS)<i ovv Koi irfi SttuXero ; dp ovk d^iov 
eTncrKOTrelv, TrjXiKOvrov koX toiovtov crvaTijfia 
rjTi^ TTOre rv^V ^Le^deipev ; 

ME. ^')(p\fi yap ovv hr] Tf<? dv dWocre ^ 

C (XKOTTCov fj v6fiov<; 7) TToXiTela^ dX\a<i Oedaano 

(T(i)^ov<Ta<i KaXd koI /xeydXa Trpdy/xara rj Kal 

TovvavTLOV 8ia<pOeipovaa<; to irapdrrav, el dfxe- 

Xrjaeie tovtwv. 

A0. ToOto jxev dpa, &)? eoiKev, evTV)(^M<; 7rco<i 
ifjL^6^r]Ka/jL€v ye el? Tiva aKeyjriv iKav7]v. 

ME. JJdvv [xev ovv. 

A0. 'A/o' ovv, o) davfidate, XeXijOa/juev dv- 
OpwiroL 7rdvTe<i, Kal rd vvv Br] rjixel^, olofievoL 
fiev cKda-Tore tl KaXov opav irpdyp-a yevofxevov 
Kal dav/naa-rd dv epyacrdp,€vov, el rt? dpa r^iria- 
Trjdrj KaXSi<i avrw %p?7cr^ai Kard Tiva rpoirov, 
D TO 8e vvv ye r)/j,et<; Ttt%' dv laco^ irepl tovto avTo 
OVT op6(a<i SiavoovfieOa ^ oi/re Kara (pvaiv, Kal 
St] Kal irepl Ta dXXa 7rdvTe<; irdvTa irepl &v dv 
ovTco 8iavo7)d(ocriv ; 

^ iWoffe Ast, Badham : &\\o MSS. 
198 



LAWS, BOOK III 

suited a number of diviners and, amongst others, 
the Delphian Apollo? 

MEG. That is certainly probable. 

ATH. But it seems that these great expectations 
speedily vanished, except only, as we said, in regard 
to that small fraction, your State of Laconia ; and 
ever since, up to the present day, this fraction has 
never ceased warring against the other two. For 
if the original intention had been realised, and if 
they had been in accord about their policy, it would 
have created a power invincible in war. 

MEG. It certainly would. 

ATH. How then, and by what means, was it 
destroyed ? Is it not worth while to enquire by 
what stroke of fortune so grand a confederacy was 
wrecked ? 

MEG. Yes ; for, if one passed over these examples, 
one would not be likely to find elsewhere either laws 
or constitutions which preserve interests thus fair 
and great, or, on the contrary, wreck them totally. 

ATH. Thus by a piece of good luck, as it 
seems, we have embarked on an enquiry of some 
importance. 

MEG. Undoubtedly. 

ATH. Now, my dear sir, do not men in general, 
like ourselves at the present moment, unconsciously 
fancy that every fine object they set eyes on would 
produce marvellous results, if only a man understood 
the right way to make a fine use of it ? But for us 
to hold such an idea in regard to the matter before 
us would possibly be both wrong and against nature ; 
and the same is true of all other cases where men 
hold such ideas. 

^ Siavooifjif6a H. Richards : Stavooi/xcOa MSS. 



PLATO 

ME. Aeyet? 8e Brj ri, koL irepl rlvo^i aoi (f)(a/j,€v 
ficOuar etprjadai tovtov top \6<yov ; 

A0. £i <yade, koI avrbf i/navrov vvv Srj 
KareyeXaaa. dTTO/SXe-yjra^ yap Trpof tovtov tov 
(TTokov ov Trepi SiaXeyofieOa, eSo^e fioi wdyKaXof 
T€ etvai Kal davfiaaTov <(at'> ^ KTrjpLa TrapaTreaelv 
TOLs "EAAr^crti', oTTcp etrrov, et tis dpa avTw t6t€ 
E Kd\(ji)<; ixp^cciTO. 

ME. OvKovv ev Kal i)(^6vT(i)^ vovv <tv re irdvTa 
€67769 Kal eTTrjvecra/xev rjfiel^ ; 

A0. Icr&)9" ivvoS) ye ixrjv 0)9 7ra9 09 dv cStj ti 
fieya Kal Svvafiiv e%ov 7roWr)V Kal poofirjv ev6v<i 
CTraOe tovto, (09 eXirep iirlcnaLTO 6 K€KTr)/j,€vo<; 
avT& ')(^pr]a0at toiovtw re ovti koI Trj\iKovT(p, 
uavfiaaT av Kal TroWa KaTepya(rd/j,€vo<; evSai- 
fiovoi. 
687 ME. OvKovp opOov Kal tovto ; rj •jr&'i Xeyet? ; 

A0. ZiKOTrei Bt) TTol ^Xeircov 6 tov eiraivov 
tovtov irepl cKaaTOv Ti6i/j,evo<; 6p6oi<; \eyei. 
TTp&Tov 8e irepl avTOv tov^ vvv Xeyo/nevov, 7rft)9, 
el KaTa Tpoirov rjTnaTrjdrjcrav ra^at to aTpaTO- 
ireSov oi TOTe 8iaKO(T/xovvTe<i, tov Katpov ir&i; dv 
eTVX^ov ; ap ovk el ^vveaTrjadv re da(jiaXS)<i avTO 
Sieaco^ov re 6t9 tov del %/c»oi'oi', wore avTov<; re 
iXevdepov; eivai Kal dXXcov dp')(OVTa<; cov ^ovXt)- 
B delev, Kal oX,<w9 ev dvdpdtiroi'i irdat Kal '^iXX-qai 
Kal ^ap^dpoL<i irpaTTeiv 6 ti imOvpolev avToC 
Te Kal ol eKyovoi ; p.a>v ov tovtcov ydpiv eiraive- 
veiev av ; 

ME. Tldvv fiev ovv. 

A0. 'A/j' ovv Kal 09 dv l8o)v ttXovtcv fieyav ^ 

^ <av> (after icrfjixa) C. J. Taylor. 
* inaivedeUv OreJii, Ritter : emBvfioiev MSS. 
200 



LAWS, BOOK III 

MEG What is it you mean ? And what shall we 
say is the special point of yuur remarks ? 

ATH. W'hy, my dear sir, I had a laugh at my 
own expense just now. For when 1 beheld this 
armament of which we are speaking, I thought it 
an amazingly fine thing, and that, if anyone had 
made a fine use of it at that time, it would have 
proved, as I said, a wonderful boon to the Greeks. 

MEG. And was it not quite right and sensible of 
you to say this, and of us to endorse it ? 

ATH. Possibly ; I conceive, however, that every- 
one, when he beholds a thing that is large, powerful 
and strong, is instantly struck by the conviction 
that, if its possessor knew how to employ an instru- 
ment of that magnitude and quality, he could make 
himself happy by many wonderful achievements. 

MEG. Is not that a right conviction ? Or what is 
your view ? 

ATH. Just consider what one ought to have in 
view in every instance, in order to justify the 
bestowal of such praise. And first, with regard to the 
matter now under discussion, — if the men who were 
then marshalling the army knew how to organise it 
properly, how would they have achieved success? 
Must it not have been by consolidating it firmly 
and by maintaining it perpetually, so that they 
should be both free themselves and masters over all 
others whom they chose, and so that both they and 
their children should do in general just what thev 
pleased throughout the world of Greeks and 
barbarians alike .'' Are not these the reasons why 
they would be praised .'' 

MEG. Certainly. 

ATH. And in every case where a man uses the 



PLATO 

rifj,a<i Bia<f)epouaa'i <yevov^ rj koX otiovp roiv 
roiovTcov ecTTT} ravra raura, irpo^ tovto ^Xevcov 
enrev, ax; 8ia tovt avrw yevijaofiera (av av 
eTriOvfifj irdvTa rj ra TrXeicra Kol ocra d^itOTura 
Xoyov ; 

ME. "FiOiKS <yovv. 
C A0. ^epe B'^, irdvTCdV dvdpcoircov earl KOivov 
e7ri6v/j,r]ij,a ev Tt to vvv vtto tov Xoyov 8i]Xovfxevov 
[co? avT6<; (j)7)aiv 6 X0709] ^ ; 

ME. To TTOtOV ; 

A0. To KUTa Tr]v T^9 avTov yf^vx^^ iiriTa^tv 
ra yiyvofi^va ylyveadaL, fidXiara /nev CLTravra, el 
Be fxi], rd ye dvOpcoTTiva. 

ME. Tt P-1JV ; 

A0. OvKovv eireiTrep ^ouXo/xeda irdvTe^i rb 
rotovrov del iraiBef re ovTe<; kuI dvBpe<; koX 
Trpear^vTat, tovt' avTo koI ev'^oip.ed^ av dvay- 
Kaio)<i Bid TeXovi ; 

ME. IIw? S' ov ; 
D A0. Kal fxr)v roh ye (f>iXoi<i irov ^vvevx^oip^eO' 
av ravra direp eKCtvot eavrotaiv. 

ME. Tt p,i]v ; 

A0. <I>iXo9 p.ev vio<i irarpiy iral'i a)v dvBpL. 

ME. 11609 B' ov ; 

Ae. Kat fir)v (OV y 6 7rac<; ev'^erai, eavT(p 
yiyveaOat, iroXXd 6 Trarrjp direv^aiT dv TOi? 
6eol<i p^rjBapco^ Kara rd'i rov vleo<i eu%a9 717- 
veadai. 

ME. "Orav dv6r]ro<; q)v koI en veo<; ev')(rjrai, 
Xeyea ; 

*[&)»... \6yos] bracketed by England (after Stallb.). 
a 03 



LAWS, BOOK III 

language of eulogy on seeing great wealth or 
eminent family distinctions or anything else of the 
kind, would it not be true to say that, in using 
it, he has this fact specially in mind, — that the 
possessor of such things is likely, just because of 
this, to realise all, or at least the most and greatest, 
of his desires. 

MEG. That is certainly probable. 

ATH. Q)me now, is there one object of desire — 
that now indicated by our argument — which is 
common to all men ? 

MEG. What is that ? 

ATH. The desire that, if possible, everything, — 
or failing that, all that is humanly possible — should 
happen in accordance with the demands of one's 
own heart. 

MEG. To be sure. 

ATH. Since this, then, is what we all wish always, 
alike in childhood and manhood and old age, it is 
for this, necessarily, that we should pray continually. 

MEG. Of course. 

ATH, Moreover, on behalf of our friends we will 
join in making the same prayer which they make 
on their own behalf. 

MEG. To be sure. 

ATH. And a son is a friend to his father, the boy 
to the man. 

MEG. Certainly. 

ATH. Yet the father will often pray the gods 
that the things which the son pravs to obtain 
may in no wise be granted according to the son's 
prayers. 

MEG. Do you mean, when the son who is praying 
is still young and foolish ? 

203 



PLATO 

A0. K.ai oTav ye 6 irar-qp 0)v yeptov rj kuI 
E (T(f}o8pa veavia^, /xiiSeu rcov KaXcov kol roiv Bi/caifov 
yiyvoocTKCov, €v)(T}Tai fidXa '7rpodvp,(o<i iv nxadr)- 
fiaaiv ahe\^oX<i (av xot? yevofiivoiii ©rjcret Trp6<i 
Tov hv(nv')(^b)<i TeXevrrjcravTa 'linroXvrov, 6 he 
irai^ ytyvcoaKT), rore, So/fet9, iralf irarpX avv- 
ev^erai ; 

ME. Mavddvco \eyei<;. Xeyeiv yap jjlol SoKei'i 
009 ov Tovro evKTeov ovSe eweiKreov, eireaOai 
iravTU ry eavTOV ^ovkrjaei, rrjv ^ovXrjcrci' Se 
/jLT}8ev [fjidWov^ ^ Ty eavTov ^povijaer tovto 8e 
Kol TToXiv KOI eva rjficbv e/caarov kol evj^eaOai 
helv Koi airevheiv, otto)? vovv e^ei. 
688 A0. Nat, Kal B^ kuI ttoXitlkov ye dvSpa vojxo- 
Oerrjv ct)9 del 8ei Trpo^ tovto ^XeirovTa Tidevai 
Ta9 Td^€i<i TOiV vojxwv, ayT09 re efivrjadrjv Kal 
vfid<i eTTavafxifivrjaKU) /car' dp')(a<i, el fiefxvrjfMeOa, 
ra Xe')(6evTa, otl to fxev (T(f)a>v tjv irapaKeXevfia 
609 ')(pea)v eiT) tov dyadov vo/jLodeTrjv irdvTa 
TToXe/jLOv ')(dpiv TO, vofiifia Tidevai, to 5' efiov 
eXeyov otl tovto fiev 7rpo9 /niav dpeTrjv ova&v 
TeTTapcov KeXevot TidecrOat toix; vofiovi, Seoi 8e 
B 8t) 7rpo9 irdaav fiev ^Xeireiv, fidXiaTU he Kal 
TTpo'i TrpMTrjv TTjv Trj<i ^VfiTrda-Tjfi •qyefiova dpeTr}<s, 
(f>p6vTjcn<; 8' eirj tovto xal vov<i Kal Bo^a fieT 
epft)T09 T6 Kal e7ridv/j,ia<i tovtoi^ e7rofji,evT]<;. ■^Kei 
8t) ttoXlv o X0709 649 TavTov, Kal 6 Xeyav 670) 
vvv Xeyo) rrdXiv direp Tore, el fxev fiovXecrde, ai<i 

^ [fj.a\Kov'\ I bracket (irokv /xaWov Schanz). 

* Hippolytus was accused by his stepmotlier, Phaedra, of 
attempting to dishonour her : therefore his father (Theseus) 
invoked a curse upon him, and Poseidon (father of Theseus) 
304 



LAWS, BOOK III 

ATH. Yes, and also when the father, either 
through age or through the hot temper of jouth, 
being devoid of all sense of riglit and justice, indulges 
in the vehement prayers of passion (like those of 
Theseus against Hippolytus,^ when he met his luck- 
less end), while the son, on the contrary, has a sense 
of justice, — in this case do you suppose that the son 
will echo his father's prayers ? 

MEG. I grasp your meaning. You mean, as I 
suppose, that what a man ought to pray and press 
for is not that everything should follow his own 
desire, while his desire in no way follows his own 
reason ; but it is the winning of wisdom that everyone 
of us, States and individuals alike, ought to pray for 
and strive after. 

ATH. Yes. And what is more, I would recall to 
your recollection, as well as to my own, how it was 
said 2 (if you remember) at the outset that the 
legislator of a State, in settling his legal ordinances, 
must always have regard to wisdom. The injunction 
you gave was that the good lawgiver must frame 
all his laws with a view to war : I, on the other 
hand, maintained that, whereas by your injunction 
the laws would be framed with reference to one 
only of the four virtues, it was really essential to 
look to the whole of virtue, and first and above 
all to pay regard to the principal virtue of the four, 
which is wisdom and reason and opinion, together 
with the love and desire that accompany them. 
Now the argument has come back again to the same 
point, and 1 now repeat my former statement, — in 

sent a bull which scared the horses of H.'s chariot so that 
they upset the chariot and dragged him till he was dead. 
» 63U D flF. 

vou I. g 205 



PLATO 

Tral^oiv, el h\ w? (nrovSd^oyv, on hrj ^rjfit €u')(^[} 
j(^prjcrdaL (T(j)a\epov eivai vovv firj K€KTr}/u.ivov, 
aXXa ravavTia Tat<; ^ovXrjcreaiv ol lylyveaBai. 
[a-TTovBd^ovTa 5' et fie riOivac ^ovXeade, rlOeTe-] ^ 

C TTavv fyap ovv irpoaSoKM vvv ufid^; evprjcreiv t& 
\6ya> eivo[xevov<;, ov oXiyov e/jbTrpoadev irpovde- 
fieOa, T779 Tftii/ ^acTiXeicov ^ re (f)0opd<i koX 6\ov 
Tov 8iavoi]/j,aTO^ ov Bei\[av ovcrav rrjv alriav, 
ovK ore rd irepX tov iroXe/xov ovk rjiricyTavro 
dp)(0VTe<i re kuI 01)9 TrpoarjKev apx^crdai, ttj 
\oL'nfi he irdar] kukLu hu^dappieva, koI /xdXcaTa 
TTj "TrepX rd pueyiGTa rcov dvd poiirivoiv irpaypLaroiv 
dp,a0ia. ravr ovv 0)9 ovtw yeyove irepl rd rore 

D Kal vvv, el irov, ylyverai, koX i<; rov eireira ^povov 
OVK dXX(o<; (Tvp,^7]aeTai, idv ^ovXrjcrOe, Treipda-ofiai 
Icov Kard rov e^ri<i Xoyov dvevplaKeiv re Kal vp.lv 
SrjXovv Kard 8vvap.iv ft)9 ovai (f)LXoi<;. 

KA. A6yq> puev roivvv ere, Si ^eve, erraivelv 
eTrax^^crrepov, epyw 8^ a<po8pa irraiveaopeOa' 
TTpodvpiM^ ydp rol<i Xeyopbivoi^ erraKoXovdrjcropiev, 
ev 049 o ye eXevdepa><; ^ irraivoiv Kal p,r) p,dXi(rrd 
eari Karacf^avij'i. 

ME. "Kpiar, w KXeivia, Kal rroccopev a Xeyei^. 

E KA. "Rarai, ravr a, idv 6eo<; edeXr). Xeye piovov. 
A0. ^ap,ev 8rj vvv, Kad' 68ov I6vre<i rrjv Xoltttjv 
rov Xoyov, rrjV pieylcrrrjv dp,a6iav rore eKeivrjv 
rrjv 8vvap,iv diroXecrai Kal vvv ravrov rovro 
Tre4>VK€vat irocelv, toare rov ye vop,o6errjv, el 
rov6' ovrQ)<i e%€<, rreipareov ral^ rroXecn (ppovrja-iv 

1 [a-irovSdCoi'Ta . . . TlBere] I bracket (after England's 
conj.). 

206 



LAWS, BOOK III 

jest, if you will, or else in earnest ; I assert thai 
prayer is a perilous practice for him who is devoid 
of reason, and that what he obtains is the opposite 
of his desires. For I certainly expect that, as you 
follow the argument recently propounded, you will 
now discover that the cause of the ruin of those 
kingdoms, and of their whole design, was not 
cowardice or ignorance of warfare on the part 
either of the rulers or of those who should have 
been their subjects ; but that what ruined them was 
badness of all other kinds, and especially ignorance 
concerning the greatest of human interests. That 
this was the course of events then, and is so still, 
whenever such events occur, and will be so likewise 
in the future, — this, with your permission, 1 will 
endeavour to discover in the course of the coming 
argument, and to make it as clear as I can to you, 
my very good friends. 

CLIN. Verbal compliments are in poor taste, 
Stranger; but by deed, if not by word, we shall pay 
you the highest of compliments by attending eagerly 
to your discourse ; and that is what best shows 
whether compliments are spontaneous or the reverse. 

MEG. Capital, Clinias ! Let us do just as you say. 

CLIN. It shall be so, God willing. Only say on. 

ATH. Well then, to advance further on the track 
of our discourse, — we assert that it was ignorance, 
in its greatest form, which at that time destroyed 
the power we have described, and which naturally 
))roduces still the same results ; and if this is so, it 
follows that the lawgiver must try to implant in 



^ 0a(Ti\(iui> Boeckh, Schanz : 0a(Tt\4a>y MSS. 
* (\fv0f pais Ast, Schanz : iXtidtpos MSS. 



207 



ni M PLATO 

fiev ocn-jv Svvarbv iixiroielv, ttjv S' dvoiav oti 
fiaXiara e^aipelv. 
KA. ArjXov. 
689 A0. Tfc9 ovv r) fieylcrTT) hiKaio)<; av Xeyoiro 
cbfiauLa ; cr/coTretTe et a-vvSo^ec koI acjiwv \ey6- 
fievov iyo} fiev Stj rrjv roidvSe Tidefiai. 
KA. TIoLav ; 

A0. Trjv orav Ta> ri ho^av koKov rj dyaOov 
eivai fiT) (piXfj TOVTO, dWd i^'tafi, to Se Trovrjpov 
Kal dBiKov BoKovv elvai (piXrj re koI dcnrd^ijrai. 
TavTTjv rr)V Siacpcovlav Xinrrj^ re Kal r)Bovri<; 7rpo<i 
TT}v Kara Xoyov Bo^av dfjuadiav (prf/u,! elvai rr)v 
iaxdT7)v, <T>;^'> ^ jueyiaTTjv Be, oti tov frXriOovi 

B ecrrl t^? yjrvxi]^' to yap XvTrovfievov Kal r/Bofievov 
avT'fj(; oTTep Brifi6<i re Kal TrXrjdo<; 7r6Xe(t)<; ecrTtv. 
brav ovv €7n(7Tr]fiai<i rj Bo^ai<i rj Xoyw ivavTiwTai, 
TO?? (f)va€i. dp)(iKoi<;, [^ '^^XV'^^ tovto dvoiav 
irpoaayopeixo, TroXeco? re, OTav dp-)(ovcn Kal v6/J.oi<; 
fjLT) TreidrjTat to TrXrjdof;, Tavrov, Kal Brj Kal ei'o? 
dvBpos, OTTOTav KaXol iv "^vxfl Xoyoi ev6vTe<; 
/iirjBev TTOtcbcri irXeov, dXXd Brj TovToi<i irdv tov- 

C vavTLOv. TavTa<i rrdaa'i dfjLadia<i Td<; TrXrjfifieXea-- 
Tura^i 670)7' av deir^v iroXecii'; re Kal evo'i CKdcrTOV 
T(bv TToXtTcbv, dXX' ou T<x9 T(bv Brj/iiiovpycbv, €1 dpa 
fiov KaTafiavOdv€T6, o) ^evoi, Xeyco. 

' <T7jj'> I add. 

* iv '/'"X^il bracketed by Badham. 

* In this comparison between the Soul and the State both 
are regarded as consisting of two parts or elements, the ruling 
and the ruled, of which the former is the noblest, but the 
latter the " greatest " in bulk and extent. The ruling element 
in the Soul is Reason {vois, \6yos), and in the Stale it is Law 

308 



LAWS. BOOK HI 

States as mucli wisdom as possible, and to root out 
tolly to the utmost of his power, 

CLIN. Obviously. 

ATH. What kind of ignorance would deserve to 
be called the "greatest".'' Consider whether you 
will agree with my description ; I take it to be 
ignorance of this kind, — 

CLIN. What kind ? 

ATH. That which we see in the man who hates, 
instead of loving, what he judges to be noble and 
good, while he loves and cherishes what he judges to 
be evil and unjust. That want of accord, on the 
part of the feelings of pain and pleasure, with the 
rational judgment is, I maintain, the extreme form 
of ignorance, and also the "greatest" because it 
belongs to the main mass of the soul, — for the part 
of the soul that feels pain and pleasure corresponds 
to the mass of the populace in the State. ^ So when- 
ever this part opposes what are by nature the 
ruling principles — knowledge, opinion, or reason, — 
this condition I call folly, whether it be in a State, 
when the masses disobey the rulers and the laws, or 
in an individual, when the noble elements of reason 
existing in the soul produce no good effect, but 
quite the contrary. All these I would count as the 
most discordant forms of ignorance, whether in the 
State or the individual, and not the ignorance of the 
artisan, — if you grasp my meaning. Strangers. 

{yo fios) a.nd its exponents : the subject element in the Soul 
consists of sensations, emotions and desires, which (both in 
bulk and in irrationality) correspond to the mas-s of the volgiis 
in the State. Plato's usual division of the Soul is into three 
parts, — reason (rovs), passion {8vfi.6s), and desire (ixtdufila) : 
cp. Hep. 435 AT. 

aog 



PLATO 

KA. ^avddvojxev re, w <piX€, Kal ffvy^topovfiep 
a Xe7ei9. 

A0. Tovro fiev toLvvv ovtco Keicrdw SeSoy/jievov 
Kal XeXejfievov,^ to? rot? ravr afiaOaivovai tS)v 
TTokLTOiv ovhev eimpeTTreov ap^T]'; e-)(op,evov koI 
(U9 afia6e(riv oveiBiareov, av koX ttuvv XoyiaTiKol 
re cjcri koI irdvTa to. KOfjLyJra Kal oaa tt/jo? Ta^^o? 
D Tfj<i '^v')(r)'; 7r€(f)VK6Ta hiaTreirovrnjievoi aTravra, 
Tou? Se TovvavTLOv €^ovTa<; rovrcov u>^ (To<f>ov<i 
T€ Trpoaprjreov, av kuI to Xeyo/xevov firjre ypdp.- 
fxara firjre velv eiricrrwvraL, Kal rd^; dp')(^a'i BoTeov 
ft)? €/ji,<f)poai. TTco? yap dv, o) <j>i\ot,, dvev ^vp,(f>(ovia<i 
yivoir' dv <f)povi]aeo)<i Kal ro cr/xcKporarov el8o<; ; 
ovK eariv, dXX' rj KaWiarrj Kal fieyio-TT) rcov 
^vp,(f>(ovi(t)v jxeyiar'q SiKaiorar^ av Xeyoiro (TO<j>ia, 
tJ? o fxev Kara Xoyov ^wv fiiro^o^, 6 S' aTroXei- 
E Trtj/iei/o? oiKO^dopo^ Kal Trepl iroXiv ovhafifj aca- 
Ttjp dXXd ndv Tovvavrlov dfxaOaivwv eh ravra 
eKdarore (^avelrai. ravra fiev ovv, KaOaTrep 
eXirofiev dpri, XeXeyfieva redrjroi ravrr). 

KA. Ketff^eo yap ovv. 

A0. "Apxovra<; he 8r) Kal dp-)(^o/j,6vov<i dvayKalov 
iv ral^ TToXeaiv elvai irov. 

KA. Tt p,rjv ; 
690 A0. Kiev d^id)fiara Be Br) rov re dp^ecv Kal 
dp)(e(T6ai TTold eari Kal iroaa, ev re iroXeai 
fi6ydXai<i Kal afiLKpal^ ev re olKiais waavrcot ; 
dp ov-)(l ev fiev ro re rrarpo^ Kal /nrjrpo^, koI 
6Xco<; yovea<i eKyovwv dpx^tv d^ico/jia opdov 
iravra-^ov dv efr} ; 

* XfXcYHivov Badham : Key6fxfvov MSS. (bracketed by 
Schanz). 
2XO 



LAWS, BOOK III 

CLIN. We do, my dear sir, and we agree with it. 

ATH. Then let it be thus resolved and declared, 
that no control shall be entrusted to citizens thus 
ignorant, but that they shall be held in reproach for 
their ignorance, even though they be expert calcu- 
lators, and trained in all accomplishments and in 
everything that fosters agility of soul, while those 
whose mental condition is the reverse of this shall 
be entitled "wise," even if — as the saying goes — 
" they spell not neither do they swim" ^ : and to these 
latter, as to men of sense, the government shall be 
entrusted For without harmony ,2 my friends, how 
could even the smallest fraction of wisdom exist? 
It is impossible. But the greatest and best of 
harmonies would most properly be accounted the 
greatest wisdom ; and therein he who lives rationally 
has a share, whereas he who is devoid thereof will 
always prove to be a home- wrecker and anything 
rather than a saviour of the State, because of his 
ignorance in these matters. So let this declaration 
stand, as we recently said, as one of our axioms. 

CLIN. Yes, let it stand. 

ATH. Our States, I presume, must have rulers 
and subjects. 

CLIN. Of course. 

ATH. Very well then : what and how many are 
the agreed rights or claims in the matter of ruling 
and being ruled, alike in States, large or small, and 
in households ' Is not the right of father and 
mother one of them.^ And in general would not 
the claim of parents to rule over offspring be a claim 
universally just .'' 

^ i.e. are ignorant of even the most ordinary accomplish- 
ments. » Cp. Hep. 430 E ; 591 D. 

211 



PLATO 

KA. Kai fMoXa. 

A0. TovTfp 0€ ye eTro/nevop yevvaiov^ ayevvwv 
ap-)(etv' KoX rpiTOv en tovtol<; ^vveveTat to 
Trpea^vTepov^ fiev ap-)(eiv Setv, vewrepov^i Se 
ap-)(eadai. 

KA. Tt iJbrjV ; 
B A0. Teraprov B av SovXav; fiev dp'x^eadai, 
SecnroTa^i Se ap')(eiv. 

KA. Ilai? yap ov ; 

A0. TVepiTTrov ye, o2p.ai, top Kpeirrova fiev 
ap-)(eiv, TOP r'jTTQ) Se dpyeaOai. 

KA. Ma\a ye avayKaiav dp)(^r)p eipr]Ka<;. 

A©. Kal TrXelarrjp ye ev ^vp^jracn rot? ^(ooi<i 
ovaav Kol Kara (f)vcnp, {09 @T]^alo<{ e^rj Trore 
IlLpBapo<;. TO Be fieyiaTOP, ft>9 eoLxep, d^Lwp-a 
CKTOP av yiypoLTO, eireadai fiev top ape7ri(TT7]fiopa 
Ke\evop, TOP 8e (fipopovpra ■qyeladai re kuI dpy^eip. 
C Kai TOi TOVTo ye, o) TiLpSape (To^wrare, cr^^eSop 
ovK av irapa (^vcrip e7&)7e <^airip ytypeadai, Kara 
(pvaiv Be TTjv Tov p6p,ov eKovrcov dp^Tjp dXX' ov 
^iaiop ire^vKvlap. 

KA. ^OpOoTara \eyei9. 

A0. ©eotpiXr} Be ye Kai evTV')(rj ripd Xeyopref 
e/3B6p,r]P dp-x^Tjp ei<? KXrjpop riva 7rpodyop,ep koI 
Xa^ovra p,ep dp^^tp, BvaKXrjpovPTa Be diTLoPTa 
dpx^efrdat to BtKacorarop eipal (f)a/j,€P. 

KA. ^ AXt) dear ar a \€yei<;. 
D A0. Opa? Brj, <paip,ep dv, w vo/iodera, vrpo? 
Tipa Trai^oPTe^ roop irrl yofiayv Oecrip loprcop 
paBiod^, ocra earl rrepl ^ dpxopra<; d^cco/xara Kai 

* irtpl Madvig, Schanz: wpbs MSS. 
212 



LAWS, BOOK ill 

cuN. Certainly. to 

ATK. And next to this, the right of the noble l6 
rule over the ignoble ; and then, following on these 
as a third claim, the right of older people to rule 
and of younger to be ruled. 

CUN. To be sure. 

ATH. The fourth right is that slaves ought to be 
ruled, and masters ought to rule. 

CLIN. Undoubtedly. 

ATH. And the fifth is, I imagine, that the stronger 
should rule and the weaker be ruled. 

CUN. A truly compulsory form of rule ! 

ATH. Yes, and one that is very prevalent among 
all kinds of creatures, being "according to nature," 
as Pindar of Thebes once said.^ The most important 
right is, it would seem, the sixth, which ordains that 
the man without understanding should follow, and 
the wise man lead and rule. Nevertheless, my most ^>^ 
sapient Pindar, this is a thing that 1, for one, would 
hardly assert to be against nature, but rather accord- 
ing thereto — the natural rule of law, without force, 
over willing subjects. 

CUN. A very just observation. 

ATH. Heaven's favour and good-luck mark the 
seventh form of rule, where we bring a man forward 
for a casting of lots, and declare that if he gains the 
lot he will most justly be ruler, but if he fails he 
shall take his place among the ruled. 

CLIN. Very true. 

ATH. " Seest thou, O legislator," — it is thus we 
might playfully address one of those who lightly 
start on the task of legislation — " how many are 
the rights pertaining to rulers, and how they are 

' Cp. Gcrrgias 484 B TllvZapos . . . \tyei on NoVoi . • . 

213 



PLATO 

OTi ire^vKOja iTpo<i aWrfKa ivavria)^ ; vvv yap 
Br} (TTciaeayv Trrjyqif riva avevpr}Kap.ev ri/xei<;, ■^y 
Bel (T€ depaireveiv. Trpcorov Be fieO^ r}p,S)v avd- 
(TKe'^ai TTfti? TC Kat n irapa ravra afiapTQVTe<i 
01 irepi re " A.pyo<i Koi Mea-a^vrjv fiaaiXr]<f avToi)^ 
a/xa Kat rrjv rS)V KW.i]v(i>v Bvvafiiv ovaav dav- 
E fiaarrjv ev Ta> Tore 'x^povto Biecfideipav. ap' ovk 
a'yvoi']<TavTe<; rov 'HaioBov opdoTura Xeyovra d)<i 
TO rjp,i(TV rov iravro'i ttoX-Xuki^ earl irXeov ; 
{oTTorav y to fiev oXov Xa/x^dveiv ^rip,i(oB€<i, to 
B r]fjLLcrv fierpiov, Tore to pueTptov tov dpberpov 
irXeov i)yr\(TaTO, dp.eivov ov 'x^eipovoS'^ ^ 

KA. ^OpdoTUTa ye. 

A0. UoTepov ovv olofieda irepl ^aaiXea<i tovt 
eyyiyvop.€voi> eKdcrrore BcacpOetpeiv Trporepov rj 
ev Totcn 07]/LL0i<i ; 
691 KA. To puev eiKo^ ax; ^ to ttoXv ^acriXecov tovto 
elvai v6(Tr}fia vTre prjcfxivcaf i^covTcov Bid Tpu(f)d^. 

A0. OvKOvv BrjXov ft)? TTproTOv tovto ol Tore 
^aacXrj<i ea')(ov, to irXeoveKTelv t&v TeOevTwv 
vop.(ov, Koi o X6y(p Te Kal opxip eirrivecrav, ov 
^vvef^ciivrjaav avToi<i, dXX' rj Biac^xovia, tw? 'qpieZt 
(f)ap,iv, ovaa dixadia pLeylcrrrj, BoKovaa Be cro(f)La, 
irduT eKelva Bia 7rXr]/xp,eXeiav xal dpuovaiav ttjv 
ircKpdv Bie(f)6eipev ; 

KA. "Eof/ce yovv. 
B A0. EZei'" Tt Brj TOV vofwOeTTjv eBec rore 
TidevTa evXa^Tjdrjvat, tovtov Trepl tov irddov; 
T% yeveaeco^ ; dp" o) trpo^ 9eu)V vvv p,ev ovBev 

* [inSrav . . . x^h°'">'^ bracketed by Hermann, Schanz. 
» ws : Kal MSS. : ewl Badham. 

214 



LAWS, BOOK 111 

essentially opposed to one another? Herein we 
have now discovered a source of factions, which thou 
must remedy. So do thou, in the first place, join 
with us in enquiring how it came to pass, and owing 
to what transgression of those rights, that the kings 
of Argos and Messene brought ruin alike on them- 
selves and on the Hellenic power, splendid as it was 
at that epoch. Was it not through ignorance of 
that most true saying of Hesiod ^ that ' oftimes the 
half is greater than the whole ' ? " 

CLIN. Most true, indeed. 

ATH. Is it our view, then, that this causes ruin 
when it is found in kings rather than when found in 
peo{)les ? 

CLIN. Probably this is, in the main, a disease of 
kings, in whom luxury breeds pride of life. 

ATH. Is it not plain that what those kings strove 
for first was to get the better of the established 
laws, and that they were not in accord with one 
another about the pledge which they had approved 
both by word and by oath ; and this discord — re- 
puted to be wisdom, but really, as we affirm, the 
height of ignorance, — owing to its grating dissonance 
and lack of harmony, brought the whole Greek world 
to ruin ? 

CLIN. It would seem so, certainly. 

ATH. Very well then : what precaution ought the 
legislator to have taken at that time in his enact- 
ments, to guard against the growth of this disorder? 
Verily, to perceive that now requires no great sagacity, 

^ Cp. Op. Z*. 38 ff. ; Eef. 466 C. : the meaning is that when 
"the whole" is excessive, the moderate " h^lf " is prefer- 
able ; this maxim being here applied to excesses of political 
power. 

215 



PLATO 

cro(f>ov yvMvai tovto ovB' elfrelv ^aXeTTOv, el 
Se Trpolhelv rjv Tore, (To<pd>repo<i av rjv rjfiwv 6 
TTpoiScov ; 

ME. To TTolov hrj Xeyei^ ; 

A0. lii? TO yeyov6<; irap vfilv, & M^iyiWe, 
eari vvv ye KariSovTa yvS)vai, koI yvovra eifrelv 
paSiop, Tore eSec yiyveaOai. 

ME. Xa(f>iaTepov ere \eye. 

A0. To roivvv cra(f)eo-rarov av el'r] ro roiovBe. 

ME. To irolov ; 
C A0. 'Eav ri<i fiet^ova St8^ rot? iXdrroac 
Bvva/JLiv Trapelf ro p,erpiov, TrXotoL^; re larria koX 
auyjxaai rpo(pr}v koX ylrvy^al<; ap^d<;, dvarperrera't 
rrov TTavra Kal e^v^pi^ovfa rd fxev ei9 voaovs 
del, rd B' eh eKyovov v^pe(o<i dhiKiav. ri ovv 
Brj TTore \eyop,ev ; dpd ye ro roiovSe, eo? ovk ear, 
Si (f)i,Xot dvBpe<;, Ovr)rrj<: '^v^^rj'; ^uo"^? ■^ri<j irore 
Suvijaerai rrjv fieylarrrjv ev dv0p(O7roc<; dp-^rjv 
(fyepetv via kuI dvvirevdvvo^, ware fir] tt)? /jLeyLarr]<; 
D voaov dvoLa<i TrXrjpcodeiaa aurrj<i rrjv Sidvoiav 
fiiao^ e'y^eiv 7rpo<; rcov eyyvrara (fyiXcov, o yevo- 
fievov ra^v 8ie(pdeipev avrrjv Kal rrdaav rrjv 
Bvvapitv r}4>dvLaev avrrj<i ; rovr ovv evXa^rjOrivai 
yvovra^ ro fierpiov fieydXcov vop,o6ero)v. w? ovv 
hrj <ro> ^ rore yevbfxevov vvv eari fierpitorara 
roTrdaai, roS" eoiKev etvai. 

ME. To TTOlOV ; 

A0. %e6<; rjv irpoiTov ^ KrfB6/jievo<t vficov Tt?, 09 
TO [xeXXovra irpoopSiv, Bihufiov iifiiv (f)vrevaa^ 



^ <rh> added by Ast. 

* ^y TTiJciTov : flvat MSS. : flrf hv Schanz. 



916 



LAWS, BOOK III 

nor is it a hard thing to declare ; but the man who 
foresaw it in tliose days — it'it could possibly have been 
foreseen— would have been a wiser man than we. 

MEG. To what are you alluding.'' 

ATH. If one looks at what has happened, Megillus, 
among you Lacedaemonians, it is easy to perceive, 
and after perceiving to state, what ought to have 
been done at that time. 

MEG. Speak still more clearly, 

ATH. The clearest statement would be this — 

MEG. What .'' 

ATH. If one neglects the rule of due measure, 
and gives things too great in power to things too 
small — sails to ships, food to bodies, offices of rule 
to souls — then everything is upset, and they run, 
through excess of insolence, some to bodily dis- 
orders, others to that offspring of insolence, injustice.^ 
What, then, is our conclusion? Is it not this? 
There does not exist, my friends, a mortal soul 
whose nature, when young and irresponsible, will 
ever be able to stand being in the highest ruling 
position upon earth without getting surfeited in 
mind with that greatest of disorders, folly, and 
earning the detestation of its nearest friends ; and 
when this occurs, it speedily ruins the soul itself 
and annihilates the whole of its power. To guard 
against this, by perceiving the due measure, is the 
task of the great lawgiver. So the most duly reason- 
able conjecture we can now frame as to what took 
place at that epoch appears to be this — 

MEG. Wliat? 

ATH. To begin with, there was a god watching 
over you ; and he, foreseeing the future, restricted 

Cp. Soph. O.T. 873 : v0pts <pvTfv(t rvpavvav. 

217 



iii > PLATO 

E T^v Tcov ^aaiXecov yeveacu e/c fiovoy€vov<;, ct? to 
/M€Tpcov fidWov (Tvviareike. kov fiera tovto en 
(f>vai<; Tt? avdpwirivri /xefiiyfievt) Oeia tcvI Swd/xei, 
Kanhovcra vficov rrjv dp^^v (^\eyp,aivov(Tav €Ti, 
fiiyvvat rrjv Kara yrjpa^ croi^pova hvvafiiv rfj 
692 KaTct yevo<i avddhei ptofjiiJ, ttjv tcov oktoh koI 
€LKoai yepovrav la-oyfrrjcfiov et? rd iMeyiara rfj tmv 
^aaiXewv TToirjcraaa Svvdfiei. 6 Se Tpiro<; awrr^p 
Vfilv eVt cnrapySxrav kol Ovfiov/xivrjv rrjv dp')(r)v 
opwv olov ■<\rd\iov eve^aXev avrfj rrjv tmv i(f)6p(0V 
hvvajXLv, 6771)9 T^f K\r)p(iiTr)<i dyayoov 8uvd/iie(i}<;. 
Kol Kara 8r} tovtov top Xoyov 77 fiaaiXeia Trap" 
vfiiv, e^ Q}V eBet <TVfi/j,iKTO<! yevofiivr} Kal fxeTpov 
eyovaa, awOelcra avrrj aeorrjplaf; roi^ dWoi^ 

B yeyovev alrla' iireX iiri ye Trj/Lcevo) Kal K.pea(f>6vTT) 
Kol TOt? Tore vopbo6€Tai<;, OLTive<i dp" r^crav vofio- 
OeTOvvT€<;, ouS' rj 'ApKTToSrjjjLOv fiepi^ iacoOr) ttot 
dv. ov yap iKavto^ rjcrav vo/xodeaLa<; efnreipor 
(T^ehov yap ovk dv ttot MrjOrjaav <dpK€iv>^ 
6pK0i<; peTptdarai ■\lrv')(^r)v veav Xa^ovaav dpyrjv 
e^ ^<i Bvvarov rjv Tvpavvlha yeveadai. vvv h 6 
6€0<i eSei^ev oiav eSei Kal Set Brj rrjv fievoixrav 
p,d\i(TTa dp')(riv yiyveadai. to 8e irap rjfjLtov 

C yiyvcocTKeadai Tavra, OTrep ehrov efiirpoadev, vvv 
fxev yevofMevov ovSev (to^ov e'/c yap TrapaBety- 
lxaTO<i opdv yeyovoTO^ ovhev 'xaKeirov. ei S' rjv 

^ (JipKeivy I add {fjLfrpidiTat h.v H. Richards). 

' Lycurgus. 

• Theopompus, king of Sparta about 750 B.C. Tiie institu- 
tion of the Ephorate is by some ascribed to him (as here), 
by others to Lycurgus. Cp. Arist. Pol. 1313* 19 fiF. 

» See 683 D. 

218 



LAWS, BOOK III 

within due bounds the royal power by making your 
kingly line no longer single but twofold. In the 
next place, some man,^ in whom human nature was 
blended with power divine, observing your govern- 
ment to be still swollen with fever, blended the self- 
willed force of the royal strain with the temperate 
potency of age, by making the power of the eight- 
and-twenty elders of equal weight with that of the 
kings in the greatest matters. Then your " third 
saviour," * seeing your government still fretting and 
fuming, curbed it, as one may say, by the power of 
the ephors, which was not far removed from govern- 
ment by lot. Thus, in your case, according to this 
account, owing to its being blended of the right 
elements and possessed of due measure, the kingship 
not only survived itself but ensured the survival of 
all else. For if the matter had lain with Temenus 
and Cresphontes ^ and the lawgivers of their day — 
whosoever those lawgivers really were, — even the 
portion of Aristodemus * could never have survived, 
for they were not fully expert in the art of legisla- 
tion ; otherwise they could hardly have deemed it 
sufficient to moderate by means of sworn pledges^ 
a youthful soul endowed with power such as might 
develop into a tyranny ; but now God has shown of 
what kind the government ought to have been then, 
and ought to be now, if it is to endure. That we 
should understand this, after the occurrence, is — as 
I said before ® — no great mark of sagacity, since it 
is by no means difficult to draw an inference from an 
example in the past; but if, at the time, there had 

* i.e. Lacedaiemon : Aristodemus was father of Eurya- 
thenes and Piocles (cp. 68-3 D). 
<• Cp. 684 A • 691 B. 

3iq 



PLATO 

Tt9 wpoopoiv Tore ravra koX 8vvdfi€vo<; fierpidcrai 
Ta<? dp')(^a<i Kal fiiav €k rpiSiv "jroirja-ai, rd re 
vorjdivTa ctv KaXa Tore irdvra dirkaoiae. koX ovk 
av TTore 6 IlepcrtAco? €7rl Tr^v 'EXXaSa ouS' aXko^ 
ovSel^i Q-ToXo? av cop/j.r)cre, KaTa(j)povrjaa<i cos 
6vr(ov rj/jLcov ^pax^of; d^lcov. 
KA. ^WrjQr) Xiy€i<i. 
D A0. A.i(T')(^po)^ <yovv rjfivvavTO avrov<i, S) KXct- 
Vi'Ci' TO 8' alcT'Xpov X67a) oy;^ '^^ ^"^ viKwi>Te<; ye 
ol Tore Kal Kara yrjv Kal Kara OdXarrav Ka\a<i 
veviKrjKaai /xd'^^a^' aXX' o (prj/xi alcrxpov tot' 
etvai roSe Xeyco, ro irpSyrov fiev eKelvcov rojv 
TToXecov rpiMV ovcrcov fxiav vrrep rri<i 'EXXa8o<f 
d/jLvvai, roi 8e hvo /ca/cw? ovrco<; elvai 8ie<f)0ap/x€va, 
axrre tj fxev Kal AaKeSaifiova 8c€K(o\v€V eTrajivveiv 
avrfi, TToXefiovcra avrfj Kara Kpdro<;, rj 8' av 
Trpcorevovaa iv roi<; rore ')(p6voi<; TOt"? Trepl rrjv 
E 8iavop7]v, Tj irepl ro "Ap709, TrapaKaXov/xivr) dfiv- 
veiv rov ^dp^apov ov6^ viTrjKOVcTev ovr r)p,vve. 
TToXka he \eyo3V dv ri<; rd rore yevofieva irepX 
eKelvov rov iroXe/xov t% 'EXXaSo9 ovhap.o)<i euo-^?)- 
pLova dv KarrjyopoLT]' ouS' av dp^vvaadai rrjv ye 
'FiWdha Xeywv opdoi^i dv \eyoc, tlXX' el p,T] ro re 
693 ^Adrjvaicov Kal ro AaKehaip,ovi(ov koivtj hiavotipa 
rjp.vve rrjv eniovaav SovXecav, cr'X^ehov dv r)hr] 
rrdvr^ rjv p,epiiyp,eva rd rcov 'EiXki]VQ)v yevrj iv 
dWrfkoLii Kal ^dp/3apa ev " ^iXkrjcn Kal '^Wr^viKa 
iv ^ap^dpoi^, Kaddnrep wv Tlepaai rvpavvovai rd 
vvv hiaire^oprjpeva kol ^vpTvecfioprjpei'a KaKS><; 



* Messene. 

9eo 



LAWS, BOOK III 

been anyone who foresaw the result and was able to 
moderate the ruling powers and unify them, — such 
a man would have preserved all the grand designs 
then formed, and no Persian or other armament 
would ever have set out against Greece, or held us 
in contempt as a people of small account. 

CLIN. True. 

ATH. The way they repulsed the Persians, Clinias, 
was disgraceful. But when I say "disgraceful," I 
do not imply that they did not win fine victories 
both by land and sea in those victorious campaigns : 
M-hat I call "disgraceful" is this, — that, in the first 
place, one only of those three States defended 
Greece, while the other two were so baselv corrupt 
that one of them^ actually prevented Lacedaemon 
from assisting Greece by warring against her with 
all its might, and Argos, the other, — which stood 
first of the three in the days of the Dorian settle- 
ment — when summoned to help against the bar- 
barian, paid no heed and gave no help.^ Many are 
the discreditable charges one would have to bring 
against Greece in relating the events of that war; 
indeed, it would be wrong to say that Greece de- 
fended herself, for had not the bondage that 
threatened her been warded off by the concerted policy 
of the Athenians and Lacedaemonians, practically 
all the Greek races would have been confused 
together by now, and barbarians confused with 
Greeks and Greeks with barbarians, — just as the 
races under the Persian empire to-day are either 
scattered abroad or jumbled together and live in a 

• Cp. Hdt. vii. 148 fiF. The reference is to the Persian 

invasion under Mardonius in 490 B.C.; but there is no other 
evidence for the charge here made against Messene. 

221 



PLATO 

i<f)6apfi€va ^ KaroiKelrai. TavT\ co KXeivla Koi 
MeyiWe, e^ofiev iTnri/jbav toi<; t€ iroXai rrroXi- 
riKol<; Xeyofiivot^; /cal vo/jioO€rai<; koX Tot? vvv, 
iva ra<i alrla'i avrwv aval^r)rovvre<i avevptcTKcofiev 

B Tt irapa ravra eSet irpdrreiv dWo, olov Brj koI to 
irapov elirofiev, eo? dpa ov Set p,eyd\a<i dp')(a<i 
ovh^ av dfiLKTOV^ vo/xodereiv, 8tavor}0evTa<: ro 
TOiovSe, oTi TToXiv iXevOepav re eivai 8ei koI 
€fi(j)pova Kal eavTJ] (f)iXi]v, koi tov vop^oOeTovvra 
Trpo^ ravra ^Xerrovra hel vofiodereiv. p.T] 6av- 
fid<T(OfM€v Se el iroXXaKif rjSrj Trpode/xevoi arra 
elp-qicaixev on Trpo<; ravra Set vo/xoderetv ySX-e- 

C TTovra rov vofio6€r>]V, rd Be irporedevra ov ravra 
rj/jilv ^atverai eKdarore' dXX' dvaXajL^eaOai XPV> 
orav [7rpo<i ro crcDcfipoveiv] ^ (pcofiev Beiv fiXeireiv 
\rj] 7rpo<i (hp6vr](Tii' 'fj cfiiXiav, a)9 ecr^' ovro^ o 
(TKOTTOf ouY er€po<i, axx avro<; Kai aKKa orj 
voXXd j;/xa? roiavra dv yiyvr^rat pij/xara, /xt] 
Btaraparrirco. 

KA. UeipaaofieOa Troielv ovrco^ eTravLovre^; rov<i 
Xoiyof?" Ka\ vvv Brj ro trepi, t>}? (pcXtaf re Kai 
^povrjaeaxi Kal e\ev6epia<i, rrpo<i 6 ri ^ovXopevov^ 
epe\Xe<; Xeyeiv Selv aroxd^eadai rov vofioderrjv, 

D Xeye. 

A0. ^' Akovcov Br} vvv. elaX iroXtretoiV olov 
/j,r]repe<i Bvo rive^, e^ mv rd^ dXXa<i yeyovevai 
Xiywv dv rt? 6pO(o<i Xeyoi. Kal rrjv p,ev irpoa- 
ayopeveiv p^ovapx^ct^ opOov, rrjv B' av Brjp^oKparLav 
Kal rrjs p,ev ro lie per mv yevo<; uKpov e%eii', ri]<i Be 
»;/xa9. al 8' dXXat crxeBov diracrai, Kaddirep 

' f<f>0ap/xtva : fffirap^fVa MSS. (bracketed by Cobet, Schanz). 
232 



LAWS, BOOK III 

miserable plight. Such, O Megillus and Clinias, are 
the charges we have to make against the so-called 
statesmen and lawgivers, both of the past and of the 
present, in order that, by investigating their causes, 
we may discover what different course ought to have 
been pursued ; just as, in the case before us, we 
called it a blunder to establish by law a government 
that is great or unblended, our idea being that a 
State ought to be free and wise and in friendship 
with itself, and that the lawgiver should legislate 
with a view to this. Nor let it surprise us that, 
while we have often already proposed ends which 
the legislator should, as we say, aim at in his legis- 
lation, the various ends thus proposed are apparently 
different. One needs to reflect that wisdom and 
friendship, when stated to be the aim in view, are 
not really different aims, but identical ; and, if we 
meet with many other such terms, let not this fact 
disturb us. 

CLIN. We shall endeavour to bear this in mind 
as we traverse the arguments again. But for the 
moment, as regards friendship, wisdom and freedom, 
— tell us, what was it you intended to say that the 
lawgiver ought to aim at .'' 

ATH. Listen. There are two mother-forms of 
constitution, so to call them, from which one may truly 
say all the rest are derived. Of these the one is 
properly termed monarchy, the other democracy, 
the extreme case of the former being the Persian 
}X)lity, and of the latter the Athenian ; the rest are 

* [iTuor rh ffauppofuy] bracketed by Schanz : the following 
[fl] is absent from the best MSS. 

* BovKofifvov : fiovK6fji(voi MSS. (bracketed by Badbam, 
Schanz). 

933 



; ^ PLATO 

elirov, €K Tovrwu elal 8iaTr€rrroiKi\fievat. Set 8r] 
ovv Kot avajKalov /xeraXa^eiv afi(f)Ocv rovrotv, 
€irrep eXevdepia r earat kuI ^tXia fxera tppovrj- 
E creft)?' hrj ^ovXerac rj/xiv o X6'yo<; TrpocrrdTTeiv, 
Xeyojv a)9 ovk dv ttotc tovtcov 7t6Xi<; d^otpo<; 
yevofievT] iToXiTevdrjvai SvvaiT^ av KaX(t)<i. 
KA. lift)? yap dv ; 

A0. 'H p,ev Toivvv TO fjLOvapxifcov, rj Se ro 
eXevdepov dyaTrrjaacra fiei^ovo)^ rj eSet fxovov, 
ovherepa ra fieTpia KeKrrjrai tovtcov al Be vfie- 
Tepat, Tj T€ AaKcopiKT) kuI KpijTiKi], /xaXXov. 
' A6r]valoL he koI Tlepaai to fiev irdXai, ovtco 
694 TTft)?, TO vvv Be rjTTOv. TO. ^' aiTia SieXdco/jtev. 

KA. nai^TO)?, et ye ttov fj,eXXo/xeu o irpovOefieda 
irepalveiv. 

A0. ^AKOvayfiev Srj. Tlepaat yap ore /xev to 
fieTpiov pbdXXov SofXeia? re /cat eXevdepia^ rjyov 
enl Ky/jou, irpMTov fiev eXevdepoi eyeuoPTo, eireiTa 
Be dXX(ov TToXXciyv BeaTTOTai. eXevdepim yap 
dp'x^ovTe^, fj,€TaBi,86vTe<i dp-)(OfJLevoL<i koI eirl to 
I'crov dyovTe^ fidXXov (fytXoi, re rjcrav (TTpaTioiTai 
B aTpaTt]yot<; koX 7rpodvfiov<i avTov<; ev toi^ kcvBv- 
voi<i Tzapei-^ovTO, Koi et TL<i av <j)povi/jLo<i rjv ev 
avTol<; Kol ^ovXeveiv BvvaTo^, ov (fyOovepov tov 
^a(nXe(o<i ovTOf, BiB6vto<: Be Trapprjaiav xal ti- 
fiSiVTO^i T0v<> 619 Ti Bvvafievov<; avfi^ovXeveiv, 
Koivrjv Trjv tov (f)povecv et? to fiecrov 7rap€t,')(^eTo 
Bvvafiiv, Kal irdvTa Brj tots eireBcoKev avTolq BC 
eXevdepiav Te Kal (f)iXi.av /cat vov Koivwviav. 

1 Cp. 756 E ; Arist. Pol. 12G6* 1 S. 
334 



LAWS, BOOK HI 

practically all, as I said, modificatioiis of these two. 
Now it is essential for a polity to partake of both 
these two forms, if it is to have freedom and friend- 
liness combined with wisdom. And that is what 
our argument intends to enjoin, when it declares 
that a State which does not partake of these can 
never be rightly constituted.^ 

CLIN. It could not. 

ATH. Since the one embraced monarchy and the 
other freedom, unmixed and in excess, neitiier of 
them has either in due measure : your Laconian and 
Cretan States are better in this respect, as were the 
Athenian and Persian in old times — in contrast to 
their present condition. Shall we expound the 
reasons for this ? 

CLIN. By all means — that is if we mean to complete 
the task we have set ourselves. 

ATH. Let us attend then. When the Persians, 
under Cyrus, maintained the due balance between 
slavery and freedom, they became, first of all, free 
themselves, and, after that, masters of many others. 
For when the rulers gave a share of freedom to their 
subjects and advanced them to a position of equality, 
the soldiers were more friendly towards their officers 
and showed their devotion in times of danger ; and 
if there was any wise man amongst them, able to 
give counsel, since the king was not jealous but 
allowed free speech and respected those who could 
help at all by their counsel, — such a man had the 
opportunity of contributing to the common stock 
the fruit of his wisdom. Consequently, at that 
time all their affairs made progress, owing to their 
freedom, friendliness and mutual interchange of 
reason. 

225 



PLATO i I 

KA. ' EoiKe ye tto)? to, Xeyo/jieva ovra> yeyovivai. 
C Ae. n^ 8r) ovv trore aTTcoXero iirl Ka/jL^vaov 
Koi iraXiv errX Aapeiov ayehov eacoOrj ; ^ovXeade 
olov fxavreia SiavorjOevre<; 'X^poofieda ; 

KA. <t>€p€t yovv Tj/j-iv (TKeyfriv tov 7' ^ e^' onep 
(app,i]Kapev. 

A0. M.avTevofiai hrj vvv irepi ye Kvpov ra p.ev 
aW' avTOV (rrparr^yov re ayaOov elvai koi <f)iX6- 
iroXiv, TraiSeiwi Se 6p6fj^ ov^ rj(f)6ai to irapaTTav 
olKovofiia re ov8ev tov vovv tt poaecr'X^riKevac. 

KA. Ilco? 8r] TO ToiovTov (f)(ii)fiep ; 
D A0. "RoiKev e/c veov crTpaTeveadai Sia ^lov, 
Tat9 yvvai^l rrapahov<i Tovf 7ral8a<i Tpe<f>eiv, al Se 
ft)<f evhaipLOva^ avTOv<; ck twv iraihwv evOv<; koi 
fiaKapiov^ ijSr) yeyovoTat; koX €7riBeei<i 6vTa<i tov- 
Twv ov8ev6<i eTp€(pov' KcoXvova-ai 5e &>? ovcnv 
iKav(o<; ev8aip>ocn p.rjTe avToU evavTiovadai firj- 
8eva et? pi,T)8€v, irraiveiv re dvayKd^ouaai <7rdv>^ 
iravTa^ to Xeyop^vov rj irpaTTOfievov v'k avTOiV, 
eOpeyfrav TotovTOv<; TLvd<;. 

KA. K.aXrjv, (u? eoiKa<i, Tpo(f)r]V eiprjKa<i. 
E A0. TvvaiKeiav fiev ovv ^aaiXL8o)v yvvaiKcov, 
vecoaTl yeyovviMV irXovaicov Kal iv dv8puiv epijfiCa, 
8id TO firj (T)^oXd^eiv vtto TroXe/ioyv Kal ttoXXcov 
Ktv8vva>v, T0U9 TTatSa? Tpe(f>ova(ov. 

KA. "E%et yap Xoyov. 

A0. 'O 8€ 7raTi]p ye avrol^ av Trol/jLVia fiev koX 

irpo^uTa Kal dyeXa^ dv8poi)V re Kal dXXwv iroX- 

695 Xcjv TToXXa? eKTaTO, avT0v<i 8e oU tuvtu Trapa- 



^ TOV y' : TovTo MSS. : rod Badham, Schanz. 
* <(ir5v> I add. 



%26 



LAWS, BOOK III 

cuN. Probably that is pretty much the way in 
which the matters you speak of took place. 

ATH. How came it, then, that they were ruined 
in Cambyses' reign, and nearly restored again under 
Darius ? Shall 1 use a kind of divination to picture 
this? 

CLIN. Yes : that certainly will help us to gain a 
view of the object of our search. 

ATH. What I now divine regarding Cyrus is this, 
— that, although otherwise a good and patriotic 
commander, he was entirely without a right educa- 
tion, and had paid no attention to household 
management. 

CUN. What makes us say this ? 

ATH. Probably he spent all his life from boyhood 
in soldiering, and entrusted his children to the 
womenfolk to rear up ; and they brought them up 
from earliest childhood as though they had already 
attained to Heaven's favour and felicity, and were 
lacking in no celestial gift ; and so by treating them 
as the special favourites of Heaven, and forbidding 
anyone to oppose them in anything, and compelling 
everyone to praise their every word and deed, they 
reared them up into what they were. 

CUN. A fine rearing, I should say ! 

ATH. Say rather, a womanish rearing by royal 
women lately grown rich, who, while the men were 
absent, detained by many dangers and wars, reared 
up the children. 

CUN. That sounds reasonable. 

ATH. And their father, while gaining flocks and 
sheep and plenty of herds, both of men and of many 
other chattels, yet knew not that the children to 
whom he should bequeath them were without train- 

227 



ill i PLATO 

Siocretv cfJieXKep i^yvoet r-qv iraTpwav ov rraiSev- 
ofievov^ Te')(yr)v, ovaav [YlepaiKrjv, iroifxevcov ovroyv 
WepcrSiv, Tpa')(^€ia<i ^copa? eKyovcop,] ^ crKXrjpav koX 
'iKavr^v TTOifieva^ direpyd^ecrdai fidXa la')(ypov<i 
KOL hvvaixevov<i dvpavXelv Kal dypvirvetp kuC, el 
(TTpareveadai Seoi, arpaieveadaL. Bie(f)Oapp,evT}i' 
8e TratBelav vtto rr}? Xeyofieprjti €v8at/M0i>La<i [t^v 
M^r]8iKT)v]^ irepieiSev vtto yvvaiKotv re Kal evvov- 
X^v TraiSevdivTa^ avrov tou? f t'et?, oOev iyevovro 
B OLOv^ rjv avTov<i ct/co? yeviadai, rpocpfj dvein- 
ttX^kto) TpacfyevTWi. TrapaXa/SovTe^ 3' ovv oi 
7ral8e<; TeXevrijaavTO^; Ku/jof t/du</)^<> /xeaTol Kal 
dveTTL'TrXri^La^y irpwrov p.ev top erepov drepo^ 
aireKTeive t& laco dyavaKTwv, fjuerd Be rovro 
avroi fJbaLv6p,evo<i vtto p,e9r)<i re Kal dTTaiBev(Tia<; 
Ttjv dp')(^r)V aTTCoXeaev vtto ^rjBwv re Kal rov Xe- 
yojjLevov rore evvov^ov, KaTacppovijaavTOf rrjs Ka^- 
^vcrou fX(opia<i. 

KA. AeyeTai Brj ravrd ye, Kai eoiKe a')(^eBbv 
C ovT(o TTw? yeyovivai. 

A0. Kal p.r]v Kal irdXiv eh Ilepcra? eXOeiv rrjv 
dpxh'' ^^^ ^apeiov Kal tmp eiTTa Xiyerat ttov. 

KA. Tt /ii7;i/ ; 

A0. &€cop(Ji)p,ev Bt) ^vveTTO/xevoi to) Xoyw. Aa- 
pe2o<; yap /Saa-iXeax; ovk tjv v!o<; iraiBela re ov 
BiaTpv(f)U}arj redpa/uL/j-evo^, iXOcov B' elf ttjv dp^rju 
Kal Xa^a)v avrrjv e^Bop,o<; BtelXero eTrra P'ept] 
Teii6fievo<i, Q)v Kal vvv en (TfiiKpa oveipara Xe- 

^ [nepfftK^r . . . iKy6vo)v'] bracketed by Ast, Schanz, 
* [t))// M?)5ik)ji'] I bracket (cp. England). 

^ i.e. Cambyses killed Smerdia. 
228 



LAWS, BOOK III 

ing in their father's craft, which was a hard one, fit 

to turn out shepherds of great strength, able to camp 
out in the open and to keep watch and, if need be, 
to go campaigning. He overlooked the fact that 
his sons were trained by women and eunuchs and 
that the indulgence shown them as " Heaven's 
darlings" had ruined their training, whereby they 
became such as they were likely to become when 
reared with a rearing that "spared the rod." So 
when, at the death of Cyrus, his sons took over the 
kingdom, over-pampered and undisciplined as they 
were, first, the one killed the other,^ through annoy- 
ance at his being put on an equality with himself, 
and presently, being mad with drink and debauchery, 
he lost his own throne at the hands of the Medes, 
under the man then called the Eunuch,^ who despised 
the stupidity of Cambyses. 

CLIN. That, certainly, is the story, and probably 
it is near to the truth. 

ATH. Further, the story tells how the kingdom 
was restored to the Persians through Darius and the 
Seven. 

CLiN. It does. 

ATH. Let us follow the story and see how things 
went.' Darius was not a king's son, nor was he 
reared luxuriously. When he came and seized the 
kingdom, with his six companions, he divided it into 
seven parts, of which some small vestiges remain 
even to this day ; and he thought good to manage it 
by enacting laws into which he introduced some 

* i.e. the Magian, Gomates, who personated Smerdis and 
claimed the kingdom. After seven months' reign this 
usurper was slain by seven Persian nobles, of whom Darius 
was one (521 B.C.). 

» Cf. Hdt. in. 68-88. 

229 



PLATO 

U XeiTTTai, Kal v6/j,ov<; •q^Lov Oe/xevot oIkciv laoTijrd 
Tiva Koivr}i> el<T(p€pci)v, Kal rbv rov Kvpov Sacr/Mov 
ov v7rea-)(ejo Uepaaa eh rov vofiov iveSei, ^Ckiav 
iropi^wv Kal KOLvwviav iracn Yiep(TaL<i, ')(prjfiacri 
Kal Scopeal^ rbv Hepcrcov Sij/xov Trpoaayofievoi;' 
roLjapovv avr& ra arparevixara fier* evvoia^ 
TrpocreKrrja-aro ')(^(opa^ ovk €\drrov<; S)V KariXiire 
Kvpo<i. fiera Be Aapeiov 6 rfj ^acriXiKJ] Kal rpv- 
(f)a)ar] iraXiv 7raiB€vdel<i TraiSeCa He/a^J^f. 'H 
AapeLe, eltrelv earl SiKaiorarov icox;, cb? ^ to 

E K.vpov KaKov OVK 6p,ade<i, eOpi'^frco Be 'E.ip^rjv iv 
roh avrot<; i^Oecnv iv olcrirep Kvpof Kafi^va-rjv. 
o Be, are rurv avrtov rraiBeioov <yev6p.evo<i eK'yovo'i, 
iraparrXrjaia atreriXeae rot? K.a/x^v(Tov Tradr}- 
/jLacrr Kal ay^eBov ck ye roaourov ^aai\ev<i iv 
Ylepaai^; ovBeL<i rro) p,e<ya<; iyyeyovev dXt]Oco<i, irXrjv 
ye ovofiart. ro S' atriov ov rv^V^, w? o e/i09 
696 \0709, oKX o KaKo<; /3to9 ov 01 rS)v Bia(^ep6vra)<i 
rrXovcricov Kal rvpdvvatv rraiBe^; ra ttoXXo, ^wcriv 
ov yap jMrj irore yevrjrat Tralf Kal dvrjp Kal yepatv 
iK ravTT)^ T?}? rpo(f)7]^ Bta(pepo}v rrpb? dperijv. 
a B)'j, <j)a/jLev, rm vofxoderrj aKeirreov, Kal t)fj,iv Be 
iv Tft) vvv Trapovri. BiKaiov p-riv, a> Aa«e5at- 
fiovioi, rovro ye rfj noXei vficov drrroBiBovai, ore 
rrevia koI rrXovrat Kal IBiwreia kuI fiaaiXeLa 

B Bta<f)epov<Tav ovB^ rjvrivovv rifirjv Kal rpo<pr}v 
vifiere, a? fii] rb Kar dp')(^a<i vfMiv delov rrapd deov 
Biepavrevaaro rivo^. ov yap Brj Bel Kara ttoXiv 

* &1S Stephens : ts MSS. (bracketed by Ast) 
230 



LAWS, BOOK III 

measure of political equality, and also incorporated in 
the law regulations about the tribute-money which 
Cyrus had promised the Persians, whereby he secured 
friendliness and fellowship amongst all classes of the 
Persians, and won over the populace by money and 
gifts ; and because of this, the devotion of his 
armies won for him as much more land as Cyrus had 
originally bequeathed. After Darius came Xerxes, 
and lie again was brought up with the luxurious 
rearing of a royal house : " O Darius " — for it is thus 
one may rightly address the father — " how is it that 
you have ignored the blunder of Cyrus, and have 
reared up Xerxes in just the same habits of life in 
which Cyrus reared Cambyses ? " And Xerxes, 
being the product of the same training, ended bv 
repeating almost exactly the misfortunes of Cambyses. 
Since then there has hardly ever been a single 
Persian king who was really, as well as nominally, 
" Great." ^ And, as our argument asserts, the cause 
of this does not lie in luck, but in the evil life which 
is usually lived by the sons of excessively rich 
monarchs ; for such an upbringing can never produce 
either boy or man or greybeard of surpassing good- 
ness. To this, we say, the lawgiver must give heed, 
— as must we ourselves on the present occasion. It is 
proper, however, my Lacedaemonian friends, to give 
your State credit for this at least, — that you assign 
no different honour or training whatsoever to poverty 
or wealth, to the commoner or the king, beyond 
what your original oracle ^ declared at the bidding of 
some god. Nor indeed is it right that pre-eminent 

^ The Persian monarch waa commonlv styled " the Great 
King." 
• The laws of Lycargtu. 



PLATO 

ye eivai ra? rt/ua? v'nepe-)(ovaa<i, on ri<i can 
ir\ovT(p 8ia(f)epcov, eVet ov8' oti raxix; rj koXo^ 97 
la^vp6<; avev rtvo^ ayoer?;?, ou5' dpcTrj^ 1^9 av 
aoo^poavvrj (nrfj. 

ME. riw? TovTO, Si ^cVe, \e7ei9 ; 

Ae. ^AvSpia irov p,6ptov dp€T7]<; ^v ; 

ME. rift)? 7ap ov ; 

A©. Alkuctov Toivvv avjo'i rov \oyov UKOvaaf, 
et <TOi Se^aio av avvoiKov 17 yeiropa elvai riva 
(T(f)68pa /xev dvBpeiop, p-r) auxppopa Se dX\ 
OLKoKaaTov. 
C ME. ^v(^rjp.€i. 

A0. Tt Se ; Texvifcov pev kuI irepl ravra ao- 
(f)6v, aStKov Be ; 

ME. Ovhap,(ji}^. 

Ae. 'AXXa p^Tjv TO 76 SiKaiov ov <f>v€Tat, %«i>/3t9 

ToO a(M)(f)pOV6tV. 

ME. rico? 7ap aV ; 

A0. OvSe p.r]v ov ye ao(f>ov r)pel<i vvv 8r] rrpov- 
6ept,e6a, top ra<; rjSova<; koI XuTra? KeKTr]p,ivov 
(TVfi(pcovov<; Tot9 opOol<i X6yoi<i koI errop^eva'?. 

ME. Ou yap ovv. 
D A0. "Erf 8t) koX ToSe iiriaKeylrcopeOa tmv ev 
Tai? TToXeai Tipi]a€a)p €P€Ka, TTolai re opOal xal 
pij yiypovTai eKacrroTe. 

ME. To TTolov ; 

A0. Xcacbpocrvvy] dpeu irdarj^; rr}? dWr)<i ap€Trj<i 
ev Y'^Xti '''"'* pep,0PQ}p£PT) TtpLiov rj aripLOV yiyvoir 
dv Kara SiKrjv ; 

ME. OvK e%<W OTTO)? eiTTb). 

A0. Kal /i^i' €tpr)Kd<; ye p,eTpiu><i' eliroiv yap 

1 Cp. 689 D. 
232 



LAWS, BOOK III 

honours in a State should be conferred on a man 
because he is specially wealthy, any more than it is 
right to confer them because he is swift or comely 
or strong without any virtue, or with a virtue devoid 
of temperance. 

MEG. What do you mean by that. Stranger } 

ATH. Courage is, presumably, one part of virtue. 

MEG. Certainly. 

ATH. Now that you have heard the argument, 
judge for yourself whether you would welcome as 
housemate or neighbour a man who is extremely 
courageous, but licentious rather than temperate. 

MEG. Don't suggest such a thing ! 

ATH. Well then, — a man wise in arts and crafts, 
but unjust. 

MEG. Certainly not. 

ATH, But justice, surely, is not bred apart from 
temjjcrance. 

MEG. Impossible. 

ATH. Nor is he whom we recently proposed ^ as 
our type of wisdom, — the man who has his feelings 
of pleasure and pain in accord with the dictates of 
right reason and obedient thereto. 

MEG. No, indeed. 

ATH. Here is a further point we must consider, in 
order to judge about the conferment of honours in 
States, when they are right and when wrong. 

MEG. What jK)int? 

ATH. If temperance existed alone in a man's soul, 
divorced from all the rest of virtue, would it justly be 
held in honour or the reverse ? 

MEG. I cannot tell what rejily to make. 

ATH. Yet, in truth, you have made a reply, and a 
reasonable one. For if you had declared for either 



PLATO 

St} o)v ■^p6/j,T)v oTTOjepovovv irapa /xeXo? €/jloij^ av 

ME. Ka\&>9 Tocvvv yeyovof; av eit). 

A0. Klew TO jxev Srj -rrpoardrjfia, wv rifxat re 
E Kai uTifxiat, ov Xoyov dWd rivof fxaWov dXoyov 
cnyrj'i d^iov av etrj. 

ME. ^cixppoavvrjv jxoi <^aiv€i \iyeiv. 

Ae. Nat'. TO 8i ye tmv aWcov irXetaTa 
■^fid^ oi)(f>€Xovv fieTCL TY)^ Trpoad^Kijf; fidXiaT av 
Tifidofievov opdoTUTa Tifi,&To, Kal TO SevTcpov 
hevTepu)<i' Kal ovtw hrj KaTO, tov e^rj<; Xoyov Td<; 
C(f)e^r]<i Ti/J,d<; Xdyxavov eKaaTov 6p6o)<i dv Xay- 
'X^dvoi. 

697 ME. "^X^'' '^^^T'V' 

A0. Tt ovv ; ov vo/jLodeTov Kal TauTa av 
^yjaofiev elvac Biave/xeiv ; 

ME. Kal fidXa. 

A0. BouXet Br) TO, fxev airavTa Kal ecf)^ ^Kaa-Tov 
epyov Kal KaTO, afUKpd eKeivtp Bwfiev veljxai, to 
Be Tptxfj BieXeiv, eTreiBr] voficov ea/xev Kal avToi 
7rci)<? eTTtdufirjTaL, jreipadoi^ev BiaTefxelv %&)/3i9 ra 
T6 p,kyi(TTa Kal BevTCpa Kal TpiTa ; 

ME. Haw fiev ovv. 

A0. Aeyofiev toIvvv oti iroXiv, (u? eoiKC, ttjv 

B fieXXovaav aco^eaOat re Kal evBai/xov/jcreiv ei? 

BvvafjLLv dvd pair lvr)v Bel Kal dvayKalov Tf/xa? re 

Kal dTifj,La<; Biave/xeiv 6pdSi<;. ecni Be 6pOa)<; apa 

TifxicoTaTa ixev Kal npcoTa to, irepl ttjv "^v^V^ 



* i.e. "temperance," regarded as merely an adjunct to 
civic merit, requires no further discussion at this point. 

234 



LAWS, BOOK III 

of the alternatives in my question, you would have 
said what is, to my mind, quite out of tune. 

MEG. So it has turned out to be all right. 

ATH. Very good. Accordingly, the additional 
element in objects deserving of honour or dishonour 
will be one that demands not speech so much as a 
kind of speechless silence.^ 

MEG. I suppose vou mean temperance. 

ATH. Yes. And of the rest, that which, ^vith 
the addition of temperance, benefits us most would 
best deserve to be held in the highest honour, and 
the second in degree of benefit put second in order 
of honour ; and so with each of the others in 
succession — to each it will be proper to assign the 
honour due to its rank. 

MEG. Just so. « 

ATH. Well then, shall we not declare that the 
distribution of these things is the lawgiver's task? 

MEG. Certainly. 

ATH. Is it your Mrish that we should hand over 
the whole distribution to him, to deal with every 
case and all the details, while we — as legal en- 
thusiasts ourselves also — confine ourselves to making 
a threefold division, and endeavour to distinguish 
what comes first in importance, and what second and 
third r 2 

MEG. By all means. 

ATH. We declare, then, that a State which is 
to endure, and to be as happy as it is possible for 
man to be, must of necessity dispense honours 
rightly. .And the right way is this : it shall be 
laid down that the goods of the soul are highest 

* Cp. 631 B, C; 661 AfiF.; 726 Afif. ; Arist. Eth. ^\ 1098b 
12flF. 

235 



PLATO 

ayaua KelaOai, (T(i)(f>poavvr}<; V7rap')(^ov(rr}^ avrrj, 
BevTepa Be to, nepl to aw/xa xaXa koI a<yadd, 
Kai rpira ra Trepl ttjv ovcriav kuI j^^p^jfiara \e- 
yofieva. rovrtov Se av €KT6<i Tt? fiaivr] vofModiTT]<; 
T} TToXt?, et? Tt/ia? rj ')(^p^fiara irpodjovaa rj ri 

C Tcov ixTTepcov 649 TO TTpoadev Tifj,ac<: TciTTOuaa, 
ovd oaiov ovTe ttoXitikov av hpatrj irpd'^p.a. 
elpijcrdo) ravTa rj tto)? Tjfxii/ ; 

ME. Udvv fxev ovv elpi^ado) aa^Si<i. 
A0. TauTa fxev rolvvv rjfid^ iirl irXeov eTTOirjaev 
enrelv rj Ylepcrciiyv irept SidaKeyp-i^; t?)? TroXtTe/a?. 
dvevptcTKO/jiev Se [em] ^ ert ')(^eipovt avrovf; ye- 
yovora^' rrfv Be alriav (f)a/ji€v on to iXevOepov 
Xiav d<f)e\6p6voi rov B-qiiov, to BearroTiKOV S' 
eirayayovTef; p.dWov rov TTpoarjKOVTO^, to (f)CKov 

D (ivcoXeaav koX to koivov ev rfj TroXec, tovtov 8e 
(^OapevTO's ovO' 77 tmv dp')(^6vrcov ^ovXrj virep 
dp-)(^ofieva)v koX tov hrjixov ^ovXeverai, a\X' evexa 
Tij'i auTcov dp')(r)^, du ti koI ajxiKpov irXeov 
eKaaroTe r^ywvrai eaeadai (Tcf)iacv, dvaardTOVf 
fiev 7roXet9i dvaarara Be edvrj (f)LXia irvpl Kara- 
(f)0€LpavTe<;, ix^pw^; re koI dvrjXeo)^ fiiaovvTe^; 
/xiaovvTai' orav t€ €l<i 'x^peiav rov p,d^eaOai irepl 
eavTMv Tou? Bi]p,ov<i d(f>LKvoiVTai, ovBev koivov ev 

E awTot? av /xerd '7rpodvfMta<; tov ideXeiv KivBvveveiv 
Kal iJbd')(e(Tdai dvevpiaKovaiv, dXXd /c€KTr]fievoi 
/jLvpidBa^i djrepdvTOV^ Xoytaixco d')(pi](TTOv<; et? 
TToXe/MOv 7rdaa<i KeKTqvrai, Kal KaOdirep €vBe€t<i 
dvBpcoTTwv fiiadovfievoi, vtto ficaOcorcov Kal odveiwv 
dv6 pcoirayv rjyovvrai irore cr (ad rja ecrd ai' 7rpo<; Be 

' [«Vi] bracketed by Stephens (^irl Itt; Schneider). 



LAWS, BOOK III 

in honour and come first, provided that the soul 
possesses temperance ; second come the good and 
iair things of the body; and third the so-called 
goods of substance and property. And if any law- 
giver or State transgresses these rules, either by 
promoting wealth to honours, or by raising one of 
the lower goods to a higher rank by means of 
honours, he will be guilty of a breach both of 
religion and of statesmanship. Shall this be our 
declaration, or what .-' 

MEG. By all means let us declare this plainly. 

ATH. It was our investigation of the polity of 
the Persians that caused us to discuss these matters 
at greater length. We find that they grew still 
worse, the reason being, as we say, that by robbing 
the commons unduly of their liberty and intro- 
ducing despotism in excess, they destroyed in the 
State the bonds of friendliness and fellowship. And 
when these are destroyed, the policy of the rulers 
no longer consults for the good of the subjects and 
the commons, but solely for the maintenance of 
their own power ; if they think that it will profit 
them in the least degree, they are ready at any 
time to overturn States and to overturn and bum 
up friendly nations ; and thus they both hate and 
are hated with a fierce and ruthless hatred. And 
when they come to need the commons, to fight in 
their support, they find in them no patriotism or 
readiness to endanger their lives in battle ; so that, 
although they possess countless myriads of men, 
they are all useless for war, and they hire soldiers 
from abroad as though they were short of men, 
and imagine that their safety will be secured by 
hirelings and aliens. And besides all this, they 

VOL. 1. r 237 



PLATO 

698 TouTOt? dfiaOaiveiv dvayxu^ovTai, Xeyovra €pyoi<i 
OTi Xfjpof irpot 'X^pvcTov re koI apyvpov eariv 
eKaaroTe ra \eyop,€va rifiia /cal Koka Kara iroXtv. 

ME. ndvv fiep ovv. 

A0. Ta p,eu 8>} irepi ye Uepacop, &>? ovk opdcii^ 
TO, vvv SioiKelrai Sid rtjv a(f)68pa SovXelav re Kal 
hea-noTeiav, reXo? ix^ero). 

ME. Ildvv fiev ovv. 

A0. Ta he irepl ttjv Tri<i ^ArTiKr/^; av TrdkiTeiav 
TO fXCTa TOVTO o)cravT(o<i 'q/xd'i Bie^eXdelv '^pecov, 
ft)9 Tj TravreXr)^ Kal aTro Traacou dpx,(»>v eXevdepia 
T/)? p,eTpov e')(ov(Tr]<i dp')(r)<i v(f) alpercoi'^ ov afiiKpai 
B xeipwv ripXv yap Kar eKetvov tov ')(^p6vov ore r) 
IJepacov eiridecrL^ rol<i"EXXr}(ri,v, taw^ he crx^eBop 
diraai TOt<? rrjv EvpcoTnjv oIkovctiv, eyiyvero, 
TToXireia re tjv rraXaid Kal e« rc/xrjfidroyp dp)^ai 
rive<i rerrdpcov, Kal hecxiTort^ evrjv ri<i al8ft)<i, 81' 
fjv 8ovXevovre<; rot? rore v6poL<i ^fjv r/deXofiev. 
Kal 7rpo<i rovroc<; 8r} to fieyeda rov aroXov Kara 
re yrjv Kal Kara OdXarrav yevop-evov, <f)6^oi> 
diTopov ep-^aXov, SovXelav en fiel^ova erroir^aev 
C r]pd<i roi<i re dp')(ovcn Kal Tot9 vop^oi^ SovXevcrac. 
Kal Bid iravra ravd r]pA,v ^vveireae irpof rjpd<i 
avrom a-^oBpd (piXia. a-)(^eB6v yap BeKa ereai 
irpo rrj(; ev ^aXapHvi vavp,a')(^La<i d(f)iKero Aart? 
HepcriKov (xroXov dycov 'irep,-y\ravro<i ^apeiov Biap- 
pi]Br]v eiri re ^A67)vaiov<i Kal 'E/aer/jtea?, i^avBpa- 
TToBiadpevov dyayelv, Odvarov avra> irpoenroDv p,T] 
irpd^avri ravra. Kal 6 Adri<; to 1/9 pev ^ Eperpieaf 

^ alpiToiv : eTfpuv MSS., edd. 

1 That of Solon. 
238 



LAWS, BOOK III 

inevitably display their ignorance, inasmuch as by 

their acts they declare that the things reputed 
to be honourable and noble in a State are never 
anything but dross compared to silver and gold. 

MEG. Very true. 

ATH. So let this be the conclusion of our account 
of the Persian empire, and how its present evil 
administration is due to excess of slavery and of 
despotism. 

MEG. By all means. 

ATH. We ought to examine next, in like manner, 
the Attic polity, and show how complete liberty, 
unfettered by any authority, is vastly inferior to 
a moderate form of government under elected 
magistrates. At the time when the Persians made 
their onslaught upon the Greeks — and indeed one 
might say on nearly all the nations of Europe — we 
Athenians had an ancient constitution,^ and magis- 
trates based on a fourfold grading ; and we had 
Reverence, which acted as a kind of queen, causing 
us to live as the willing slaves of the existing laws. 
Moreover, the vastness of the Persian armament 
that threatened us both by sea and land, by the 
desperate fear it inspired, bound us still more closely 
in the bonds of slavery to our rulers and our laws; 
and because of all this, our mutual friendliness and 
patriotism was greatly intensified. It was just about 
ten years before the seafight at Salamis that the 
Persian force arrived under Datis, whom Darius had 
despatched expressly against the Athenians and 
Eretrians, with orders to bring them back in chains, 
and with the warning that death would be the 
penalty of failure. So within a very short time 
Datis, with his many myriads, captured by force the 

339 



PLATO 

D ev Tivi (ipa')(el xpovw TravTUTraai Kara Kpdro'i re 
elXe i-Lvpuiai (jv)(yal'i, kul riva \6<yov eh rrji' 
rifierepav iroXiv atprjKe (^ojSepov, o)? 0^^649 'Epe- 
rpiecov avTOv aTroirecpevyoo^ etrj- avvdylravre^ yap 
apa Td<i ')(^elpa^ aayrjvevcraiev vaaau rr]v 'E/je- 
TpiKi]v ol aTparicoTai rov AdTc8o<;. 6 Si) '\,6yo<;, 
ecre dXT]dr)<; eire kuI ottt} d(f)CK€TO, tov<; t€ dXX.ou<; 
KWrjva^ Kol 8i] Kol ^ Adrjvaiov^; i^eirXijTTe, koX 
TrpecT^euo/xevoi^ avroi^; 7ravTa-)(^Gae (Borjdelv ov8€l<; 

t' ijOeXe ttXijv ye KaKehaip,ovlwv ouroi Se vtto re rov 
rrpo'i M.eaai]i'i]v oprof rore iroXefiov Kol el 8rj ri 
BceKcoXvep dXXo avrov<i, ov yap tapev Xeyofievov, 
vcrrepoi S ovv d^LKovro rrj<; ev M.apada)vi p,d'^7]<; 
yevop.evr)<i p,ia rj/jiepa, p-era Se rovro irapaaKevai 
re p,eydXat, Xeyop,evai Kal diretXal e^oirwv fivpiac 
napd ^acrtXeco^;. rrpoiovro'i he rov ')(^p6vov Aa- 
pelo'i pev reOvdvai eXe^Orj, veo^ Se Kal (T<f>o8p6<i, 6 
vib<i avrov TrapetXrjcpevai rr)v dpyrjv Kal ovhapSi'i 
699 d^Lcrraadai rrj^ 6pp,rj<;. ol 8e ' Adrjvaioc rrdv 
rovro (povro errl cr(f)d<i avrov<i irapaaKevd^eaOat 
8ia ro M^apadcovi yevopevov, Kal aKovovre'i 'Xdco 
re 8copvrr6p,€vov Kal EXXtjaTrovroi' ^evyvupevov 
Kal ro r(*)v vewv irXrjdo^ i)y)](Tavro ovre Kara yijv 
a(f)iaLV elvai acorrjpiav ovre Kara OdXarrav 
ovre yap ^or)d )jcreiv avroi<i ovheva, p,epvrjp,euoi ft)9 
ov8' ore ro rrporepov rjXdov Kal rd rrepl ^Kperptav 
hieirpd^avro, ar<pi(TC ye ov8el<i rore e^ot']Oii(rev ouS' 

B eKLv8vvevae ^vp>p,a-)(^6p-euo^. r avrov 8q 7rpocre86- 
Kcov Kal rore yeurjaecrdaL ro ye Kara yrjv. Kal 
Kara OdXarrav 8' av irdaav diropiav idipeov 



240 



LAWS, BOOK III 

whole of the Eretrians ; and to Athens he sent on 
an alarming account of how not a man of the 
Eretrians had escaped him : the soldiers of Datis 
had joined hands and swept the whole of Eretria 
clean as with a draw-net. This account — whether 
true, or whatever its origin — struck terror into the 
Greeks generally, and especially the Athenians ; 
but when they sent out embassies in every direction 
to seek aid, all refused, except the Lacedaemonians ; 
and they were hindered by the war they were then 
waging against Messene, and possibly by other 
obstacles, about whicli we have no information, with 
the result that they arrived too late by one single 
day for the battle which took place at Marathon. 
After this, endless threats and stories of huge 
preparations kept arriving from the Persian king. 
Then, as time went on, news came that Darius was 
dead, and that his son, who had succeeded to the 
throne, was a young hothead, and still keen on the 
projected expedition. The .\thenians imagined that 
all these preparations were aimed against them 
because of the affair at Marathon ; and when they 
heard of how the canal had been made through 
Athos, and the bridge thrown over the Hellespont, 
and were told of the vast number of vessels in the 
Persian flotilla, then they felt that there was no 
salvation for them by land, nor yet by sea. By 
land they had no hopes that anyone would come to 
their aid ; for they remembered how, on the first 
arrival of the Persians and their subjugation of 
Eretria, nobody helped them or ventured to join in 
the fight with them ; and so they expected that 
the same thing would happen again on this occasion. 
By sea, too, they saw no hope of safety, with more 

241 



PLATO 

awTrjplat; veSiv ^(^ikiwv koX en ttXcovcdv CTTKpe- 
pofxevcov. fiLav Srj acoTrjplav ^vvevoovv, Xeinrjv fiev 
KUi arropov, fxovrjv 8' ovv, ^Xeylravrd tt/jo? to 
irporepov yevo/xevov, &>? e^ airopoov koI totc 
i<f)aLV€To yeveadat to viKrjaai p,a')(op,evov<i' iirl 
Be Trj<; e'XTTtSo? o^^ovpbevoL Tavrrji; evpiaxov Kara- 
^vyrjv avjol<i et? avToix; fiovov; elvai xal tou? 

C deov<i' ravT ovv avroi<; iravra (piXiav dW^Xcov 
ivetToiei, o <^o^o<i o Tore Trapcov 6 le ck tmv voficov 
TMv epLTTpocrdev yeyovco^, ov BovX€uovTe<; TOt? 
irpoadev vo/j-oi<; eKeKTrjvTO, rjv alSco TroWaKi^ ev 
TOi<? avo) X6yoi<; eiTrofiev, ^ koI SovXeveiv €(j)a/xev 
Belu Toi/? [ieXXovja<i ayaOov<; eaeadai, rjs o SeiXof 
iXevOepo^ koX d(f)o8o<;' ov ei totc /xt] Xeco? ^ eXa^ev, 
ovK av TTore ^vveXdiov rjixvvaTO ovh^ ij/xuvev iepoi<i 
re KoX rdc^oif; kol Trarpihi /cal Tot? d\Xoi<; olKeioi<i 

D T6 dpia Kul (f)LXot<;, axnrep tot e^oijdrjaev, dXXd 
Kara cr/xiKpa dv ev tm totc ^/xcov eKUcrTO^ crKeha- 
a6e\<; dXXo^ dXXoae hieairdpii. 

ME, Kat fiaXa, w ^eve, 6pO(a<; re eipt]Ka<; koL 
(TavTO) Te Kol TT] irarpiSi TrpeTrovTco^. 

A0. "EcTTt TavTa, 0) MeytXXe- irpo^ yap ere rd 
ev Tft) T0T6 ^(pova) yevofieva, kolvwvov tt] twv 
TTUTepcov yeyovoTa <^vaei, Slkucov Xeyeiv. ein- 
cTKOTrei fjLTjv KoX av Kol KXeiv(,a<; et rt Trpo? ttjv 

E vofModeatav irpocrrjKOVTa Xeyofiev ov yap p,v6wv 
evcKa hie^ep^opLai, ov Xeyco 8' evcKW Spare ydp' 
iireihrj rtva Tpoirov ravrov ripXv ^vp.^e^r]Kei 

' Xfdjj : Sf'oj MSS. {lrt}xoi for SeiAbs Hermann) 

» Cp. 646E, 647C, 671 D. 
242 



LAWS, BOOK III 

than a thousand war-ships bearing down against 
them. One solitary hope of safety did they per- 
ceive — a slight one, it is true, and a desperate, yet 
the only hope — and it they derived from the events 
of the past, when victory in battle appeared to 
spring out of a desperate situation ; and buoyed up 
by this hope, they discovered that they must rely 
for refuge on themselves only and on the gods. So 
all this created in them a state of friendliness one 
towards another — both the fear which then possessed 
them, and that begotten of the past, which they 
had acquired by their subjection to the former laws 
— the fear to which, in our previous discussions/ 
we have often given the name of " reverence," 
saying that a man must be subject to this if he 
is to be good (though the coward is unfettered and 
unafTrighted by it). Unless this fear had then 
seized upon our people, they would never have 
united in self-defence, nor would they have de- 
fended their temples and tombs and fatherland, 
and their relatives and friends as well, in the way 
in which they then came to the rescue ; but we 
would all have been broken up at that time and 
dispersed one by one in all directions. 

MEG. What you say. Stranger, is perfectly true, 
and worthy of your country as well as of yourself. 

ATH. That is so, Megillus : it is proper to mention 
the events of that period to you, since you share in 
the native character of your ancestors. But l)oth 
you and Clinias must now consider whether what 
we are saying is at all pertinent to our law-making ; 
for my narrative is not related for its own sake, but 
for the sake of the law-making I speak of. Just 
reflect : seeing that we Athenians suffered practically 

243 



PLATO 

7rd0o<; oirep Uepaai^, €K€lvoi^ fiev iirl iratrav Sov- 
Xeiav ayovcrc rov Bfjfiop, rj^lv S' av rovvavTLov 
i-jrl TTCLcrav eKevdeplav TrpoTpeirovcrc ra irXrjdr], 
TTCO^ Br) Kal Tt Xeyw/jiev rovvrevdet', <€t7r€p>^ ol 
Trpoyeyovoiei; r}puv e/nirpoadev \6yoi rpoTrov riva 
fcaX(o<i elalv etprj/xevoi ; 
700 ME. Ae7et9 ev' ireipco S' eVt aa^earepov rjpuv 
(T7}ixrjvaL ro vvv Xeyo/xevov. 

A0. "Kcnai ravra. ovk rjv, (o ^Ckoi, rjfxlv €7rt 
TMV 7ra\aio)v vofxwv o hrjjXGf; tivcov Kvpio^, dWa 
TpoTTov Tivd eKODv iSovXeve rol<i vo/moci. 

ME. Ilotot? St] \€yei<; ; 

A0. Tot? irepl Tr)V /j,ov<TiKr)v irpwrov rr)v 
Tore, iva i^ dp')(rj<i SieXdm/jLev rrjv rov eXevOepov 
Xiav iirihoaiv /3iov. hirjprjfxevrj yap 8t} rore rjv 
rjfiiv rj fiovcriKr] Kara ei^r] re lauTj}? drra koL 
B a)(^t]/j,aTa, kuc ri rjv elho<i oJS?;? e^'Xat TTyOo? Oeov^, 
ovofia Be vfivot iireKaXovvro' Kal tovtw Br) to 
evavriov rjv (pBri<i erepov etSo9, dprjvovi Be t/9 av 
avTovs fidXiara e/coAecre" Kal Traicove? erepov, 
Kal oAAo Aiovvcrov y^atveaes,^ olfxai, Sidvpap^^os 
Xey6fi€vo<;. v6p.ov<i re avTO tovto Tovvo/xa exd- 
Xovv, (pBrjv W9 Tiva erepav irriXeyov Be Kidapat- 
BiKovf. TOVTOiv Br] BiareTay/iievcov Kal aXXcov 
rt,va)v OVK i^rjv dXXo) et9 dXXo KaTa^prjaOai /jbeXovi 
C 6t8o9. TO Be Kvpo^ Tovrcov yvcovai re Kal dfxa 
yvovra BcKdcai Krip,iovv re av rov firj neidop-evov 
ov avpiy^ rjv ovBe rive^ dfiovaoi j3oal 7rX7]0ov<i, 
KaOdirep ra vvv, ovB^ av Kporot eiralvov^ dvoBi 

' <eiiT€p> I add (Schanz marks a lacuna). 
^ y* a've(T€s (so too Post) : yeveae^ MSS., edd. 

244 



LAWS, BOOK III 

the same fate as the Persians— they through reducing 
their people to the extreme of slavery, we, on the 
contrary, by urging on our populace to the extreme 
of liberty — what are we to say was the sequel, if our 
earlier statements have been at all nearly correct? 

MEG. Well said I Try, however, to make your 
meaning still more clear to us. 

ATH. I will. Under the old laws, my friends, 
our commons had no control over anything, but 
were, so to say, voluntary slaves to the laws. 

MEG. What laws do you mean ? 

ATH. Those dealing with the music of that age, 
in the first place, — to describe from its commence- 
ment how the life of excessive liberty grew up. 
Among us, at that time, music was divided into 
various classes and styles : one class of song was 
that of prayers to the gods, which bore the name ot 
" hymns " ; contrasted with this was another class, 
best called "dirges"; "paeans'* formed another; 
and yet another was the "dithyramb," named, I 
fancy, after Dionysus. " Nomes " also were so called 
as being a distinct class of song ; and these were 
further described as " citharoedic nomes." ^ So 
these and other kinds being classified and fixed, it 
was forbidden to set one kind of words to a different 
class of tune. 2 The authority whose duty it was to 
know these regulations, and, when known, to apply 
them in its judgments and to penalise the dis- 
obedient, was not a pipe nor, as now, the mob's 
unmusical shoutings, nor yet the clappings which 

^ i.e. solemn chants sung to the "cithara" or lyre. 
"Dithyrambs" were choral odes to Dionysus; "peieans" 
were mostly hvmns of praise to Apollo. 

* Cp. 6o7Cff.,669Cff. 

245 



PLATO 

Sovre^, dXXa Tot<f fxeu yeyouoai nepl iraiSevatv 
SeSoyfievov aKoveiv r}v avToi^ fxera aiyrj<i Bia 
reXov^, Traial 8e kuI Trai8ayo}yol<; kuI tm irXeLcrTO) 
0'\Xa) pd^Sov Kocr/jLOucTTTi rj vovOerrjcri^ eyiyveTo. 

D ravT ovv ovro) TeTayfxevco^ r]6eXev dp)(^ea0ai, loiv 
TToXiTMV TO irXrjdo'i, koX fxrj 7oXp,av Kpiveiv hid 
dopv^ov p,eTd 8e ravra irpoiovTO^ tov )(p6vov 
dpj(0VTe<i jxkv Try? dixovaov 7rapavo/xla<; TroirjTal 
eyiyvovTO d>vaei /jlcv ttoiijtckoI, dyv(ofiov€<i 8e 
irepl TO Blkulov tt}? M.ova7]<; Kal to vofiifiov, 
ffafc-)(evovT€<; Kal p,dXXov tov BeovTo<i KaT€)(6/x€uoc 
v(f>^ ^8ov7]<i, Kepavvvvre^ Sk dprjvov^ t€ v/jlvoi^ teal 
7raicoua<i Sidvpd/ii^oi^, koI avX(i)8ia<; 8f} Tat? 
Kidapw8iai<; /Mfiov/nevoi Kal Trdvra ei? Trdvra 

B ^vvdyovre'^, /jLovctikt]^ dKovre<i vtt dvoia^ Kara- 
•^ev86p.€VOL, 0)9 opOorrjra pkv ovk cT^ot ov8^ 
rjVTLVOVV fjbovcriKij, rj8ovfj 8e Ttj tov ^at/joi/TO?, 
eiT€ ^eXTvcov etTg ■)(eipa)v dv eiij ti<;, KpivoiTo 
opdoTaTa. TOiavTa 8r) 7roiovvT€<i iroit^naTa X6yov<s 
T€ €7rLXeyovT€<; toiovtov<; to?? TToXXoi<i evedeaav 
7rapaj'0p.iav eh ttjv /jLovcTiKrjv Kal ToXfiav, to? 
iKavol<i overt Kpiveiv. odev 8r) tu OkaTpa i^ 
701 d(f)covcov (f)covi'i€VTa iyevovTO, &)? eiraiovTa iv Mou- 
o"at9 TO Te KaXov Kal /j-rj, Kal qvtI dpi(TTOKpaTla<i 
ip avTT) OeaTpoKpaTia Tt<? Trovrjpd yeyovev. et 
yap 8r) Kal 8r)p,0KpaTia ev avTrj Tt? jxovov eyeveTo 
eXevOepcov dv8pcov, ovBcv dp irdvv ye 8eiv6v rjv to 
yey ov6<i. vvv 8e rjp^e p.ev rjfilu eK plover iKfjij t) 
TrdvTcov et? irdvTa ao(f)ia<; 86^a Kal Trapavopia, 

> Cp. Rep. iii. 397 Aff. 

^ i.6. " rule of the audience " ; as we might say, the pit 
and gallery sat in judgment, Cp. Arist. Pol. viii. 6. 
246 



LAWS, BOOK III 

mark applause : in place of this, it was a rule made 
by those in control of education that thev tliemselves 
should listen throughout in silence, while the 
children and their ushers and the general crowd 
were kept in order by the discipline of the rod. In 
the matter of music the populace willingly submitted 
to orderly control and abstained from outrageously 
judging by clamour ; but later on, with the progress 
of time, there arose as leaders of unmusical illegality 
poets who, though by nature poetical, were ignorant 
of what was just and lawful in music; and they, 
being frenzied and unduly possessed by a spirit of 
pleasure, mixed dirges with hymns and paeans with 
dithyrambs, and imitated flute-tunes with harp- 
tunes, and blended every kind of music with every 
other : and thus, through their folly, they un- 
wittingly bore false witness against music, as a thing 
without any standard of correctness, of which the 
best criterion is the pleasure of the auditor, be he a 
good man or a bad.^ By compositions of such a 
character, set to similar words, they bred in the 
populace a spirit of lawlessness in regard to music, 
and the effrontery of supposing themselves capable 
of passing judgment on it. Hence the theatre- 
goers became noisy instead of silent, as though they 
knew the difference between good and bad music, 
and in place of an aristocracy in music there sprang 
up a kind of base theatrocracy.' For if in music, 
and music only, there had arisen a democracy of 
free men, such a result would not have been so very 
alarming ; but as it was, the universal conceit of 
universal wisdom and the contempt for law origi- 
nated in the music, and on the heels of these came 



247 



PLATO 

^vve(f)€aTreTo Be eXevdepia. dcfyo^oi yap eyiyvovro 
ft)<? elSore'i, rj 8e aSeia avaia-)(yvTiav eVere/ee* to 
B yap rrjv tov ^€\TLOvo<i So^av /jlt) (po^elarOai 8ia 
dpaaof, TOUT avTO ecxTt cr^eSov rj TTOvrjpa avai- 
(TXvvTLa, 8ia 8r] Tivo<; e\ev6epia<; Xiav dTTOTeroXfiy]- 
/j,evi]<i. 

ME. AXrjOearara Xeyei^;. 

AP). 'E0e^7'}9 ht) TavTT) rfj eXevdepia r) tov fxrj 
iOeXeiv Tot? ap^ovcri SovXeveiu ylyvoiT av, kuI 
eiTOfievr] TavTj) cf)€vy€iv TraT/Oo? /cal fx,r]Tpo<; kuI 
TTpea^vTepcov hovXeiav Kal vovdeTrjaiv} koI iyyv<i 
TOV T€Xov<i ova I vofioov ^rjTelv firj utti^kooi^ elvai, 
7r/J09 avTw he i^Sr) tm TeXei opKcov ical irLcrTewv 
icai TO irapd-nav Oeoiv /xt) cppovTL^eiv, Tr]v Xe- 
yo/nevrjv [rraXacdv] ^ TiTaviKrjv (pvcnv eTTiSeiKvOcrt 
C Kal /j,i/j.ovfMevoi<;- eVt to, avTo, ttoXiv i/cetva d(f}i- 
KOfxevov<;, ■)(^aXeiTov alSiva BidyovTa<; firj Xrj^aiiroTe 
KaK(av. TtVo? S77 Kal Tav6' r^puv av X"-P'^^ ^^^X'^'^ > 
Selv (f)aLveTai efioiye, olovirep ittttov, tov Xoyov 
eKd<jT0T6 dvaXafx^dveiv, Kal (jurj Kaddrrep d^dXc- 
D vov KeKTTjfievov ^ to aTOfia ^la vtto tov Xoyov 
(pepofjLevov KaTa ttjv Trapoi/xiau diro tlvo^ ovov 
irecrelv, aXV eTravepwTav to viiv hrj Xe^dev, to 
rivo'i 8r] [xapti'] * eveKa TUVTa iXi^^V / 

ME. KaX(o<i. 

A0. TavTa Toivvv e'iprjTai eKeivcov eveKa. 

ME. TlVO)V ; 

A0. 'EXe^a/iev w? tov vop-oOeTrfv hel rpLOiv 

^ vovOfTTjffiv minor MSS. : vo/xodfTrjffiv best MSS., Zur. 
- [TraAoiav] bracketed by W.-Mollendorff. 

* KfKTrififVov W.-MoUendorff: KeicrriiJ.fvov MSS. 

* [x<^P"'] bracketed by Hermann (?«/e/ca by Bast, Schanz). 

248 



LAWS, BOOK III 

liberty. For, thinking themselves knowing, men 
became fearless ; and audacity begat effrontery. 
For to be fearless of the opinion of a better man, 
owing to self-confidence, is nothing else than base 
effrontery ; and it is brought about by a liberty that 
is audacious to excess. 

MEG. Most true. 

ATH. Next after this form of liberty would come 
that whicli refuses to be sul)ject to the rulers ;^ and, 
following on that, the shirking of submission to 
one's parents and elders and their admonitions ; 
then, as the penultimate stage, comes the effort to 
disregard the laws ; while the last stage of all is to 
lose all respect for oaths or pledges or divinities, — 
wherein men display and reproduce the character 
of the Titans of story, who are said to have re\ erted 
to their original state, dragging out a painful 
existence with never any rest from woe. What, 
again, is our object in saying all this? Evidently, I 
must, every time, rein in my discourse, like a horse, 
and not let it run away with me as though it had no 
bridle 2 in its mouth, and so "get a toss off the 
donkey " ^ (as the saying goes) : consequently, I 
must once more repeat my question, and ask — 
" With what object has all this been said ? " 

MEG. Very good. 

ATH. What has now been said bears on the 
objects previously stated. 

MEG. What were they.'' 

ATH. We said * that the lawgiver must aim, in 

» Cp. Rrp. iv. 424 E. * Cp. Eur. Bcwch. 385. 

* A play on ox' ovov = axh vov : " to fall oflF the ass " was 
a proverhial phrase for " to show oneself a fool " : cf. Arist. 
Xube^ 1274 : rf SiJTa Xtiptis, Sm-wto kw' ivov Kar«weaiv. 

* Cp. 693 B. 

249 



PLATO 

(TTOX^^^Ofiepou vo^oOerelv, oVo)? rj vofwderovfiivr) 
TToKt.^ iXevdepa re earai koI (plXrj kavTrj /cat voift 
e^ei. TavT r^v. rj yap ; 

ME. Yidvv fiev ovv. 
E A®. Tovrcov eveKU Srj TroA-treta? tijv t€ Beairo- 
TiKcoTdTTjv TTpoeXo/xevot Koi rrjv eXevdepLKwrdrriv, 
eTTiaKOTTOv/uLev vvvl TTorepa tovtwv 6p6ci)^ ttoXi- 
reverar Xa/Soi'Te? hk avroiv 6KaTepa<i /jLerpioTTjTd 
Tiva, 70)1/ fxev rov Seairo^eiv, rcbv Se tov iXevOe- 
piaaai, KaTeiSo/xev on Tore 8ia(f)ep6vT(0(; iv avTal<i 
iyevero evirpayia, eirl 8e rb dxpov dyayovTcov 
eKarepoov, tcov fiev SovXeia^;, rwv 8e TOvvavTLov, 
ov (Tvvi']veyKev oine roU ovre rol<i. 
702 ME. ^ AXijOearara Xeyei<;. 

A0. Kal firfv avTMV ye eveKa koi to AwpiKot 
iOeaadfxeOa KaTOLKi^6p,evov cnpaTOTreBov Kal TUf 
rov Aaphdvov viTa>pela<i re Kal rqv eirl OaXdrrrj 
KaroLKicriv, Kal rov<i 7rpuiTov<i Stj rov<; TrepiXiirel'i 
yevofievov^ rr}<i (f)Oopd<;, en 8e Toy? epirpoa-Oev 
rovTcov yevo/xevov<i rjfuv X6yov<i irepi re p.ovcnKr]<i 
Kal fiedt}^ Kal rd rovrcov en rrporepa. ravra 
yap irdvra eiprjrai rov KariSecv eveKa tto)? ttot' 
B av TToXt? dptara oIkolt], Kal Ihia 7r(o<i dv ra 
^eXriara rov avrov ^iov Siaydyoi. el 8e 87] ri 
TreTTOcy'jKa/jLev -npovpyov, Ti<i rror' av eXeyxo^i 
yiyvotro r)p.lv rrpo^ r]p.d<i avrovf Xe^^^et?, (u 
M.€yiXX€ re Kal KXeivla ; 

KA. '£70) riv , S) ^€V€, fioi 8oK(o Karavoelv 
eoiKC Kara rv^V^ rivd rjpuv rd rcbv Xoytov rovrcov 
irdvrwv oiv Sie^ijXOojuLev yeyovevai' a^'^hov yap 
et? XP^^^^ avrSiv eycoy eXrjXvda rd vvv, Kal Kard 

250 



LAWS, BOOK ill 

his legislation, at three objectives — to make the 
State he is legislating for free, and at unity with 
itself, and possessed of sense. That was so, was 
it not ? 

MEO. Certainly. 

ATH. With these objects in view, we selected 
the most despotic of polities and the most absolutely 
free, and are now enquiring which of these is rightly 
constituted. W^hen we took a moderate example 
of each — of despotic rule on the one hand, and 
liberty on the other, — we observed that there they 
enjoyed prosperity in the highest degree ; but when 
they advanced, the one to the extreme of slavery, 
the other to the extreme of liberty, then there was 
no gain to either the one or the other. 

MEG. Most true. 

ATH. With the same objects in view we surveyed,* 
also, the settling of the Doric host and the homes 
of Dardanus at the foot of the hills and the colony 
by the sea and the first men who survived the Flood, 
together with our previous discourses ^ concerning 
music and revelry, as well as all that preceded these. 
The object of all these discourses was to discover 
how best a State might be managed, and how best the 
individual citizen might pass his life. But as to the 
value of our conclusions, what test can we apply 
in conversing among ourselves, O Megillus and 
Clinias? 

CLIN. I think. Stranger, that I can perceive one. 
It is a piece of good luck for me that we have dealt 
with all these matters in our discourse. For I myself 
have now come nearly to the point when I shall need 



* i.e. in Bk iii. 676-693 (taken in the reverse order), 
' i.e. in Books i. and iL 



25» 



PLATO 

Tiva av Kaipov crv re 7rapay€yova<{ a^ia koX 
y[eyiXko<; 68e. ov yap aTroKpv-yfro/xai a^co ro 

C vvv ifiol ^vp,/3alvov, dWa koX irpof olcovov riva 
TTOLOvpxti. Tj yap TrXeiaTi] t^9 K.pr]rr)<i iirfX^eLpel 
Tiva diroLKLav iroirjaaaOai, Kal irpoardrTei tol^ 
Kv(ocri,oi<; iinfieXrjdijvac rov irpdypMro^, r) Be tmv 
K-vooabcov 7roXi9 i/xoL re kuI dWot,<; evvea' a/j,a Be 
Kal v6/jLov<; rcou re avrodi, et Ttve^ rjpd'; dpicrKovai, 
rideadai xeXevet, Kal et Ttpe<; erepoiOev, p,r]hev 
vTToXoyi^o/jievov^; to ^eviKov avTO)v, dv ^eXTiov<; 
<f)aLV(t)VTai. vvv ovv ifxoi re Kal vpuv raurrjv Bcofiev 

D '^dpiv' €K TOiv elprjpevcov iK\e^avTe<i tw \6ya) 
avaTrjacofieda iroXtv, olov i^ dpx^rj<i KaToiKi^ovTes, 
Kal dp,a fiev rjfilv ov ^rjTov/xev eiriaKe'^L^ yevrjae- 
Tat, dpa S' €761) Td)(^ av 'x^prfaai.pTjv et? t^v 
fieWovaav ttoXlv Tavrrj ttj crvaTdcret. 

A0. Ou TToXep-ov ye eirayyeXXei'i, o) KXeivia' 
aX\' el jxr) TV M.eyiXX(p 7rp6aavTe<i, to. Trap" €p,ov 
ye rjyov crot irdvra Kara vovv VTrdp)(^etv et? 
Bvvap,iv. 

KA. Ei5 Xeyeitf. 

ME. Kai /jLT]v Kal TO, Trap* dfiov. 

E KA. K.dXXiaT elptjKarov. drdp 7reipd)fie6a 
Xoyoi irpoiTov KaTOiKi^eiv ttjv ttoXiv. 



«5» 



LAWS, BOOK III 

them, and my meeting with you and Megillus here 
was quite opportune. I will make no secret to you 
ol wliat has befallen me ; nay, more, 1 count it to 
be a sign from Heaven. The most part of Crete 
is undertaking to found a colony, and it has given 
charge of the undertaking to the Cnosians, and 
the city of Cnosus has entrusted it to me and nine 
others. We are bidden also to frame laws, choosing 
such as we please either from our own local laws or 
from those of other countries, taking no exception 
to their alien character, provided only that they 
seem superior. Let us, then, grant this favour to 
me, and yourselves also ; let us select from the 
statements we have made, and buUd up by argu- 
ments the framework of a State, as though we were 
erecting it from the foundation. In this way we 
shall be at once investigating oiu- theme, and 
possibly I may also make use of our framework for 
the State that is to be formed. 

ATH. Your proclamation, Clinias, is certainly not 
a proclamation of war ! So, if Megillus has no 
objection, you may count on me to do all I can to 
gratify your wish. 

CLIN. It is good to hear that. 

MEG. And you can count on me too. 

CLIN. Splendid of you both ! But, in the first 
place, let us try to found the State by word. 



•S3 



704 Ae. <t>e/3e Bij, riva hel Siavot)dr]vai trore ttjv 
TToXiv eaeadai ; Xe7&) he. ov ti rovvofia avTrj^ 
ipcoToJv 6 Tt ttot' €(ttI TO, vvv, ovh^ etv Tov erreiTa 
')lp6vov 6 Tf herjaet KaXelv avT^V tovto fiev yap 
To,-)^ av t(Tco<; Kal 6 KaToiKia/jLO<i avTrj<; ?; rt? 
TOTTO? ^ TTorapLOV Tivb<i rj Kpi]P7j<; rf deiav iircovvfiia 
Twv iv TO) TOTTft) TTpoadeir), ttjv avrcav (prjfirjv 
B Kaivfi yewMfievt] ^ rfj TroXet' roBe Be Trepl avri)^ 
iarlv /3ovX6fjL6vo<i /xaXXov eVe/JtuTW, nrorepov 
eTTLOaXarrihioi; earai ri<i 77 'x^epaala. 

KA. ^xeBov, CO ^^ve, cnrkyeL daXaTrr]^ 76 i] 
TToXf? ^9 irkpi TO, vvv Bt) Xe')(6evTa Tj/xtv el'? rtva<; 
oySot'jKOVTa crTaBiov;. 

A0. Tt 8e ; Xifi€ve<; ap elal Kara ravra avTrj^, 
rj TO Trapdirav aXip.evo<i ; 

KA. EuXt/zei^o? p.ev ovv Tavrij ye &)? Bvvarov 
fidXccTTa, 0) ^eve. 
C A0. UaTTUL, olov Xeyei<i' rl Be ; Trepl ainrjv r) 
'X(t>pa TTorepa 7rdfi(f)opo<i rj kuI tivmv eTriBei]<i ; 

KA. liX^Bov ovBevos eTTiBei]^. 

A0. Telrayv Be avrfj^; TroXa ap* earai Tt? 
TrXrjcriov ; 

KA. Ov Trdvv, Bio Kal KaroiKL^eTar TraXaia 

ydp Tt? €^OLKI]<Tt^ iv TU> TOTTCp yeV0/jL€V7] TTJV )(^Q)paV 

TavTi-jv eprjfiov direipyaarai, 'y^povov dyLr]')(avov 
oarov. 

* 7€»') tt/xii-ri Apelt : 'y(fon4>ni MSS. 

•54 



BOOK IV 

ATH. Come now, what is this State going to be, 
shall we suppose ? I am not asking for its present 
name or the name it will have to go by in the 
future ; for this might be derived from the con- 
ditions of its settlement, or from some locality, or 
a river or spring or some local deity might bestow 
its sacred title on the new State. The point of my 
question about it is rather this, — is it to be an 
inland State, or situated on the sea-coast? 

cLix. The State which I mentioned just now, 
Stranger, lies about eighty stades, roughly speaking, 
from the sea. 

ATH. Well, has it harbours on the sea-board side, 
or is it quite without harbours ? 

CLIN. It has excellent harbours on that side. 
Stranger, none better. 

ATH. Dear me I how unfortunate I ^ But what of 
the surrounding country ? Is it productive in all 
respects, or deficient in some products ? 

CLIN. There is practically nothing that it is 
deficient in. 

ATH. Will there be any State bordering close 
on it? 

CLiN. None at all, and that is the reason for 
settling it. Owing to emigration from this district 
long ago, the country has lain desolate for ever so 
long. 

* This remark is explained by what is said below, 705 A ff. 

«5S 



PLATO 

A0. Tt S' av ; irehitov re kuI opcov Kal vXt}^ 
TTftx; fxepo<i CKaarcov rjpuv ei\r})^ev ; 

D KA. Y[pocreoiK6 rfi Tfi<i aX\t]<; Kp^Tt]<i <f)va€i 
oXt], 

A0. Ypa'^vrepav avTrjv rj TreSieivorepav &■ 
\€yoi<;. 

KA. Udvv fiev ovv. 

A0. Ov TOLVVv dvLaro<i ye av eh] 7rp6<; dperfji; 
KTTJaiv. el /jLev yap eTriPaXarTia re e/xeXXev eJpai 
Kal ev\Lfjiei'o<i Kal /mt) rrdpcfiopo's dW' eVtSer^? 
TToXXcov, peyaXov Tiv6<i eBei acorrjpo^i re avrfj 
Kal vopoOeroiv Beiaiv rivSiv, el firj TroWd re 

E ep^eWev tfOrj Kal rroLKiXa Kal <^av\a e^eiv roiavri] 
^vaei yevofievr)' vvv he rrapapLvOiov e;^6f to ro)v 
oySo^Kovra crraSicov. eyyvrepov fiev rot rov 
Beovro<; Kelrai t?}? Oa\drrri<;, a')(ehov oaov ev\i- 
fievcorepav avrrjv </>77? elvat. 6p(o<; Se dyamqrqv 
705 Kal rovro. TrpocroiKoi; yap ddXarra %(wpa to p.ev 
Trap' eKdarrjv rjpepav t}Bv, p,dXa ye prjv ovrw^ 
dXp^vpov Kal iriKpov yeirovrjfia' ep^iropla^ yap 
Kal 'x^prjfiaricTpov Sia Karr)fkela<i eprrnrXdaa 
avrr'jv, rjOi-j rraXlp^^oXa Kal dmara rai<; •y\rv)(^al<; 
evrLKrovaa, avrrjv re 7rpo9 avrr)v rtjv rroXiv 
dmarov Kal d(f)iXov rroiel Kal tt^o? rov<i dXXov<i 
dv6 pu)Trov<i d>aavTQ)<i. irapapLvdi-ov he Btj 7rpo<; 

B TauTa Kal ro rrdpL^opo^ elvat KeKrrjrai, rpa')(ela 
he ovaa hrjXov tw? ovk av 7roXv(f)opo<i re etr) Kal 
7rdp,(f)opo<i djJLa. rovro yap e^ovaa, rroXXrjv 
e^aycoyrjv av rrapexopevr), vopi(7p,aro<i dpyvpov 
Kal ')(^pvaov rrdXiv dvrep.TriirXair dv, ov /xei^ov 
KaKov, 0)9 eVo? elirelv, iroXei dvB" evb<; ev ovhev 

?56 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

ATH. How about plains, mountains and forests ? 
What extent of each of these does it contain ? 

CLIN. As a whole, it resembles in character the 
rest of Crete. 

ATH. You would call it hilly rather than level ? 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH. Then it would not be incurably unfit for 
the acquisition of virtue. For if the State was to 
be on the sea-coast, and to have fine harbours, and 
to be deficient in many products, instead of pro- 
ductive of everything, — in that case it would need 
a mighty saviour and divine lawgivers, if, with such 
a character, it was to avoid having a variety of 
luxurious and depraved habits.^ As things are, how- 
ever, there is consolation in the fact of that eighty 
stades. Still, it lies unduly near the sea, and the 
more so because, as you say, its harbours are good ; 
that, however, we must make the best of. For the 
sea is. in very truth, " a right briny and bitter 
neighbour," ^ ilthough there is sweetness in its 
proximity for the uses of daily life ; for by filling the 
markets of the city with foreign merchandise and re- 
tail trading, and breeding in men's souls knavish and 
tricky ways, it renders the city faithless and loveless, 
not to itself only, but to the rest of the world as 
well. But in this respect our State has compensation 
in the fact that it is all- productive ; and since it is 
hilly, it cannot be highly productive as well as all- 
productive ; if 't were, and supplied many exports, 
it would be flooded in return with gold and silver 
money — the one condition of all, perhaps, that is 



» Op. Arist. Pol. vii. 6. 
* Quoted from Alcman. 



257 



PLATO 

av yCyvoiTO eh yevpatcov Ka\ SiKaicov rjdSiv KTrjaiv, 
«!)<? e^a/jbev, el fiefivrj/xeda, iv roU irpoadev \070t?. 

KA. AXXa fi€fjLvi]ne9a, koX auy^copovfiev totc 
Xeyeiv r)/j.d^ 6pdoi<i Koi ra vvv. 
C A0. Tt Se hrj ; vavTrrjyqcri/jLrjq v\t)<; 6 totto? 
rjfuv tt}? ^(opwi TTft)? e;^et ; 

KA. OvK ecTTiv ovre ri^ eXdrr) Xoyov a^ia ovt 
av -rrevKT], Kvndpnro^ re ov iroXXr]' ttltvv t av 
Kal TrXdravov oXlyqv av evpoi rt?, ot? 8r] irpo^ ra 
T(ov evTo^ T(ov irXoiayv fiiprj dvayKalov T0t9 vav- 
7r>/70t? ■y^pr]adai, eKdaro-re. 

A0. Kai ravra ovk av KaKO)<i ^■)(^oi rrj %ft)/3a 
Trj<i (pvaeax;. 

KA. Tt 8-1] ; 
D A0. Mf/LtT/cret? TTovTjpai; /xifxeiadai toi'9 7ro\e- 
fjLi,ov<i fjLT] paSt'w? BvvaadaC riva ttoXlv dyaBov. 

KA. Ei9 8)7] Tt TUiv elpr]/jLev(i)v ^X€y{ra<i €lrre<;.o 
\e7et9 ; 

A0, 'fl Saifiovie, (jyvXaTri fie et? to KaT dp-)(^d^ 
elprifievov diro^XeTTcov, to irepX tmv KprjriKwv 
vo/xcov, ft)? Trpo? €v Ti fiXenoiev' Kal 8r] Kal tovt 
iXeyirijv avTO elvat a(j)u> to tt/jo? toi' TroXefWV, 
iyoj Be uTToXa^cov elirov tu? oti p.ev et? dperrjv ttoi 
^Xeirot TO, ToiavTa vof^i/ia Kei/xeva KaXco'i e%ot, 
TO 8 on irpos fiepot aXV ov Trpo? irdaav <T^e86v 
E ov Trdvv ^vvexf^povv. vvv ovv v/j.el<; /xoi t^9 
Trapovaijq vofioBeaia^ dvTt(f)v\d^aTe eirofievoi idv 
apa Ti /XT] Trpo? dpeTrjV retvov rj upo? dpeTi]<i 
fiopiov vopLodero). rovrov yap 8r] rideaOai rov 
vofiov 6pda)<i viroTLde/jLai fiovov, 09 av 8iKrjv ro^orov 
€KdcrT0T€ aro'X^d^'qTai, tovtov otq) av avve^oiii 

«58 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

most fatal, in a State, to the acquisition of noble 
and just habits of life, — as we said, if you remember, 
in our previous discourse.^ 

CLIN. We remember, and we endorse Avhat you 
said both then and now. 

ATH. Well, then, how is our district off for timber 
for ship-building ? 

CLIN. There is no fir to speak of, nor pine, and 
but little cypress; nor could one find much larch or 
plane, which shipwrights are always obliged to use 
for the interior fittings of ships. 

ATH. Those, too, are natural features which 
would not be bad for the country. 

CLIN. Why so ? 

ATH. That a State should not find it easy to copy 
its enemies in bad habits is a good thing. 

CLIN. To which of our statements does this 
observation allude ? 

ATH. My dear Sir, keep a watch on me, with an 
eye cast back on our opening - statement about the 
Cretan laws. It asserted that those laws aimed at 
one single object ; and whereas you declared that 
this object was military strength, I made the 
rejoinder that, while it was right that such enactments 
should have virtue for their aim, I did not at all 
approve of that aim being restricted to a part, 
instead of applying to the whole. So do you now, 
in turn, keep a watch on my present law-making, as 
you follow it, in case I should enact any law either 
not tending to virtue at all, or tending only to a part 
of it For I lay it down as an axiom that no law is 
rightly enacted which does not aim always, like an 
archer, at that object, and that alone, which is 

» Cp. 679 B. » Cp. 625 D, 629 E flf. 

259 



PLATO 

706 [tovtg)!'] ra)v^ del kuXmv rt ^vve-rrrjrai fiovov, to, Be 
dXka Pv^Travra TrapaXeLTrrj, edv re ri<; ttXoOto"? 
idv re dpa ti tmv dWwv tcov tolovtcov ov TV'y)(^dvr) 
dvev TCOV TrpoeipTjfMevcov. rr)v Se Brj fxifjurjcni' 
eXeyov ttjv rSiv TroXe/xLcov ttjv kuktjv ToidvSe 
yiyveaOac, orav oIkt} fxiv Tt? TTpo<; daXdrrr), 
XvirrjTai S' viro TroXefiitov, olov — cppdao) yap ov ri 
/jLvrjcriKaKelv ^ovX6fievo<i vfxiv. MtVo)? yap Stj 
TTOTC Toi'9 oIkovvtu^ TTjV ^ Attikt]v 7rapeaT7]aaTO 

B et9 yaXeTTrjv rtva (f)opdv Baap^ov, Bvvafiiv ttoXXtjv 
/card ddXarrav Keicrr}p.evo<i. ol 8' ovje tto) irXola 
eKeKrrjVTO, Kuddirep vvv, TroXefiiKd, ovt av rrjv 
')(u)pav TrXrjpr] vavTrrjyrjaip^aiv ^vXo)V, atar €v/j,ap(o<; 
vavTiKTjv Trapaax^adai, 8vvap,iv' ovkovv oloi t 
eyevovro Bid p.ip,i](r€(o<; vavTiKrj^ avroX vavrat 
yev6p,€voi €v6v^ Tore tou? TroXe/it'ou? dp,vvaadai. 
eri, ydp dv TrXeovdKi'i eirrd diroXeaai iraiBwi ay- 

C Tot9 (TvvrjveyKe, irplv dvTC Trei^wv ottXltmv p-ovlfxtov 
vavTiKOv<i yevop,evov<i iOtcrdijvat ttukvu diroTrr^Bwv- 
TWi Bpop^LKOi^ €19 ra? vav<i ra^v ttoXlv dTTO-)(o}pelv, 
Kal BoKelv p^TjBev ala^pov rroieiv p^rj roX/xcoyra? utto- 
6v>]aKeiv fi€vovTa<; e7ricf)epop,€va)v TToXep.iwv, dXX 
ecKVLWi avTol<i yiyveadab '7rpo(f)d<Tei<i Kal (T(f)68pa 
kroipba'i OTrXa re diroXXvac Kal (^evyovcri, Brj riva^ 
ovK al(r)(pd<;, &<; (f)aai, ^vyd-^. ravra ydp eK 
vavTiKpjf OTrXtreia? epyp,ara ^ (fiiXel ^vp.^aiveiv, 
OVK d^ia iiratvcov 7ro\Xa«t? p,vpt(ov, aXXa rovvav- 

D TLov eOr] ydp irovqpd ovBeTTore edi^eiv Bel, Kal 
ravra ro rmv iroXiroiV ^eXriarov p,epo<i. rjv Be 
TTOV rovro ye Kal Trap' Op.tjpov Xa^elv, on ro 

^ [rovToiv] rS>v : rovroov (or tov rwv) MSS. 
260 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

constantly accompanied by something ever-beautiful, 
— passing over every other object, be it wealth or 
anything else of the kind that is devoid of beauty. 
To illustrate how the evil imitation of enemies, 
which I spoke of, comes about, when people dwell 
by the sea and are vexed by enemies, I will give 
vou an example (though with no wish, of course, to 
recall to you painful memories). When Minos, once 
upon a time, reduced the people of Attica to a 
grievous payment of tribute, he was very powerful 
by sea, whereas they possessed no warships at that 
time such as they have now, nor was their country 
so rich in timber that they could easily supply 
themselves with a naval force. Hence they were 
unable quickly to copy the naval methods of their 
enemies and drive them off by becoming sailors 
themselves. And indeed it would have profited 
them to lose seventy times seven children rather 
than to become marines instead of staunch foot- 
soldiers ; for marines are habituated to jumping 
ashore frequeutly and running back at full speed to 
their ships, and they think no shame of not dying 
boldly at their posts when the enemy attack ; and 
excuses are readily made for them, as a matter of 
course, when they fling away their arms and betake 
themselves to what they describe as " no dis- 
honourable flight." These "exploits" are the usual 
result of employing naval soldiery, and they merit, 
not "infinite praise,'' but precisely the opposite; for 
one ought never to habituate men to base habits, and 
least of all the noblest section of the citizens. That 
such an institution is not a noble one might have been 

- iiyyfiara : l>-hfJ-aTa MSS. (bracketed by Schanz) 

261 



PLATO 

eTnTrjSev/xa rjv to toiovtov ov koXov. 0Si'0"0"et»9 
fyap avT(p \oi8opei rbv ' Aya/xe/xvova, tmv ^ A-)(^aiwv 
roT€ VTTO TMV Tpcocov KaTex,o/jiei>o)V rfi fiaxV' 
KcXevovra ra? vavs et? tt)v OdXaTrav Ka9e\Keiv, 
o he ')i^d\e'JTaivei re avr& Kat Xiyet 

09 KeXeat iroKefioio avveaTaoro'i koI avT?}? 
E vr)a<i evaaiX-fiov^i aXaS* e\K€iv, o^p en 

fiaWov 
lipwal jxev evKTO, yevrjrai ieXSofiivoiaL irep 

epirrj^, 
rjficv 8' aliTV'i oXedpo^ iirippeTrr)' ov yap 

'A^atoi 
(T')(^rj(rovaLv iroXefiov vr}a>v aXaS^ eXKO/aevdcov, 
aX,V aTroTTainaveovaLv, ipcoijcrovai Be )(^dp/jL7j<i. 
707 evOa K€ arj ^ovXr) BrjXijcreTai, oV dyopevei'i. 

ravT ovv eyiyvaxTKe Kot €Ketvo<;, on kukov ev 
daXaTTT} rpLrjpei<; OTrXirai^ Trapecrroyaat yiia;\^o- 
p,evoL<i' Kol Xeovre<i av eXdcpov^ eOiaOelev (feeuyeiv 
TOiouroi<; eOecri 'X^pcofievor npo^ Be tovtoi^ at Bid 
rd vavTiKa TToXecov Bvvdfiei^ d/ia crwTripia^^ n/iia<i 
ov Tw KaXXi(TT(p rcov iroXepiKcov aTroBiBoaai. Bid 
Kv^epvrinKrj<; yap xal TrevTT]Kovrap-)(lia<; Kal ipe- 
B TiKrjf; Kal TravroBaTTOiV Kal ov irdvv airovBaicov 
dvdpd)7ra)V yiyvofievr]'; rd<; n/j,d<; cKdaTOi^ ovk av 
BvvaiTO 6p6Si<i aTroBiBovac rt?. Kai tol ttw? av 
en TToXirela yiyvoLro opdrj tovtov arepop-evr] ; 

KA. ^')(eBov dBvvarov. dXXd fii]v, o) ^eve, rrjv 
ye irepl '^aXapuva vavpia^iav rcov 'EXXtjvcov tt/jo? 
Toi/? 0ap/3dpov<; yevopAvqv 'qfxei<; ye ol KprJT€<i 
TTjv 'FiXXdBa (f)apev awaai. 

^ iTa>ri)pias Badham, Schanz : <rcor7ipt(f MSS. 
263 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

learnt even from Homer. For he makes Odysseus 
abuse Agamemnon for ordering the Achaeans to 
liaul down their ships to tlie sea, when they were 
being pressed in fight by the Trojans ; and in his 
wrath he speaks thus ^ : — 

" Dost bid our people hale their fair-benched ships 
Seaward, when war and shouting close us round ? 
So shall the Trojans see their prayers fulfilled. 
And so on us shall sheer destruction fall I 
For, when the ships are seaward drawn, no more 
Will our Achaeans hold the battle up. 
But, backward glancing, they will quit the fray : 
Thus baneful counsel such as thine will prove.'' 

So Homer, too, was aware of the fact that triremes 
lined up in the sea alongside of infantry fighting on 
land are a bad thing : why, even lions, if they had 
habits such as these, would grow used to running 
away from does I Moreover, States dependent upon 
navies for their power give honours, as rewards for 
their safety, to a section of their forces that is not 
the finest ; for they owe their safety to the arts of 
the pilot, the captain and the rower — men of all 
kinds and not too respectable, — so that it would be 
impossible to assign the honours to each of them 
rightly. Yet, without rectitude in this, how can it 
still be right with a State ? ^ 

CLIN. It is well-nigh impossible. None the less. 
Stranger, it was the sea-fight at Salamis, fought by 
the Greeks against the barbarians, which, as we 
Cretans at least affirm, saved Greece. 



» n. xiv. 96 ff. 

* Cp. 697 B, 757 A f . 



263 



PLATO 

Ae. Kal yap ol ttoXXoI rcav 'RWtJvwv re xal 
C ^ap^dpoov Xiyovcri ravra. i7;u.et9 8e, o) 0tA,e, iyo) 
T€ Kal oBe, MeyiXXo?, (pafxeu rrjv ire^rjv fid-)(r}v 
rrjv iv MapaOMvi yevofievTjv Kal iv Tl\araiai<i ttjv 
/j,€V dp^ai T% ao)T7)pLa<; roi^"EWr)cn, rrjv he reko<i 
imdelvai, Kal ra<; p,ev ^e\riov<i rov<t "EWT/va? 
rroirjcrai, ra<; he ov ^eXriov^, 'iv ovrco Xeym/xev 
irepl rS>v rore ^vaaMcracrMV r^fia^; fiaxfi^V' tt/jo? 
yap rfi rrepl ^aXa/xiva rrjv Trepl ro ^ Aprepicriov 
(TOO TTpoadijcTb) Kara doKarrav fid'^rfp, dWa 
D yap drro ^Xeirovre^ vvv Trpo? iroXireia^ dperrjv Kal 
')^d}pa<i (pvcriv (TKOTrov/xeda Kal vofioyv rd^iv, ov ro 
(Tco^eaOai re Kal elvai [xovov dvdpQ)7roi<; ri^xica- 
rarov rjyov/j.€voi, Kaddirep ol iroWoi, ro 5' &)<? 
^eXricrrovi yiyveaOal re Kal elvai rocrourov 
'Xpovov oaov av (oaiv. e'iprjrai S' rj/jilv, olfiai, Kal 
rovro iv rot? irpoadev. 

KA. Tt firjv ; 

A0. ToDto roLvvv (TKOTrcofxeda fxovov, el Kara 
rrjv avrrjv oSov ip^6/u,e6a /BeXrlarrjv ovaav rroXecri 
KaroiKLaecov irepi Kal vofioOeaicov. 
E KA. Kai TToXv ye. 

Ae. Aeye hrj roivvv ro rovroi<; e^%, rt? 6 
KaroiKi^6fievo<; vp.iv Xecb^ earat ; irorepov i^ 
dirdarj^ K/jr^T?;? 6 edeXwv, to? 0)(^\ov rivo'i iv 
rai<{ TToXecriv eKdarai<i yeyevrjp,evov 7rXeiovo<; 
fj Kara rrjv ix rrj^ yr)^ rpo(f)r]v ; ov ydp rrov 
rov ^ovX6p,ev6v ye 'EXXt^vwv avvdyere. koa, 
roi riva<} v/xtv eK re "Apyovi op5i Kal Alylvrj^ Kal 
708 aXXodev rcov 'EXXijvcov eh rrjv 'ywpav KarmKia- 

1 Cp. 637 C £ 
264 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

ATH. Yes, that is what is said by most of the 
Greeks and barbarians. But we — that is, 1 mvself 
and our friend Megillus — affirm that it was the land- 
battle of Marathon which began the salvation of 
Greece, and that of Plat-aea which completed it ; 
and we affirm also that, whereas these battles made 
the Greeks better, the sea-fights made them worse, 
— if one may use such an expression about battles 
that helped at that time to save us (for I will let you 
count Artemisium also as a sea-fight, as well as 
Salamis). Since, however, our present object is 
political excellence, it is the natural character of a 
country and its legal arrangements that we are 
considering ; so that we differ from most people in 
not regarding mere safety and existence as the most 
precious thing men can possess, but rather the 
gaining of all possible goodness and the keeping of 
it throughout life. This too, I believe, was stated 
by us before.^ 

CLIN. It was. 

ATH. Then let us consider only this, — whether 
we are travelling by the same road which we took 
then, as being the best for States in the matter of 
settlements and modes of legislation. 

CLIN. The best by far. 

ATH. In the ne:tt place tell me this : who are 
the people that are to be settled ? Will they 
comprise all that wish to go from any part of Crete, 
supposing that there has grown up in every city a 
surplus population too great for the country's food 
supply ? For you are not, I presume, collecting all 
who wish to go from Greece ; although I do, indeed, 
see in your country settlers from Argos, Aegina, and 
other parts of Greece. So tell us now from what 

a65 



PLATO 

fievov<i' TO Se Br) irapov ri/xiv \iye TroOev eaeaOai 
^^<? aTparoTreSov twi" ttoXltoov tu vvv ; 

KA. "£« re K/97;'t7;? ^vfiTrdaij^; eoLKS 'yevrjaeadai, 
Koi ro)v aWcov 8e 'EiWjjvwv /ndXiaTo, fxoi (f>aLVov- 
rai Tou? airo TleXoTrowTjcrov irpoahe^eaOat, ^vvol- 
KOVi. Koi 'yap, vvv 87] \e76f9, dXr)de<; (f)pd^€i<;, 
ft)? e^ "Apyov^; eluL, kuX to <ye p-dXiar evBoKi/xovv 
TO. vvv ivOdSe yepo^, to ToprvviKov. ex T6pTVP0<; 
yap Tvy)(^dv€i u'jrwK'qKO^ Tuvrrj ^ rrj<; lleXoTrovvrj- 
(TiaKT)^. 

B A0. Ov rolvvv €VKo\o<i 6p,oi,Q)<; yiyvoiT av o 
KaToiKi(Tfio<; rat? iroKeaiVtOrav /xi) rov rSiv eapSiv 
yiyvTjTai rpoTrov, ev yevo^ diro ptd<i lop ')((opa<i 
oiKL^TfTai, (f)i\ov irapa (piXcov, aT€i'0)(^(i)pca tivI 
iroXiopKrjdev 7^9 i] Tiaiv dXXoi<; roioinoL'i iradrj- 
paaiv dvayKacrdiv. eari 8' ot€ koi (nda-eai 
^la^opevov dvayKa^otr av eripcocre aTTO^evovadai 
TToXed)^ ri popiov r^Sr) Be irore Kal ^vvd-naaa 
TToXi^ TtvQ)v ecjiuyev, dphrjv KpeiTTOvi Kpartjdetaa 

C TToXefift). TauT* ovv irdvT^ iarl rfj pev paco 
KaToiKL^eadaC re xal vofiodeTelcrOai, rfj Se X^^^' 
7T(OT€pa. TO pev yap ev ri elvai yevo<; opo^wvov 
Kttl opovopov 6;^€t TLvd (f)iXLav, Koivcovov lepcbv ov 
Kal rwv roiovrcov TrdvTcov, v6p,ov<; B' erepovs fcal 
TToXneLa's dXXa^ to)v olKodev ovk e^TreTW? dv- 
kyeTai, to V evlore irovr^pia vop,U3v iaraaiaKOti Kal 
Sia avvrjdeiav i^t-jTOvv en ^PV^^^'- '^'^^^ avrol^ 
rjOeai, St' a Kal "nporepov e(f>ddpr), ;>^aXe7roi' rat 
KaroiKL^ovTC Kal vopoOerovvrt, Kal BvaTreide^ 

D yCyverar to 8' av TravroBairov e? ravro ^wep- 

^ raxjTQ : TavTrjs MSS., edd. 
266 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

quarters the present expedition of citizens is likely 
to be drawn. 

CLIN. It will probably be from the whole of Crete ; 
and of the rest of the Greeks, they seem most ready 
to admit people from the Peloponnese as fellow- 
settlers. For it is quite true, as you said just now, 
that we have some here from Argos, amongst them 
being the most famous of our clans, the Gortynian, 
which is a colony from Gortys, in the Peloponnese. 

ATH. It would not be equally easy for States to 
conduct settlements in other cases as in those when, 
like a swarm of bees, a single clan goes out from a 
single country and settles, as a friend coming from 
friends, being either squeezed out by lack of room 
or forced by some other such pressing need. At 
times, too, the violence of civil strife might compel 
a whole section of a State to emigrate ; and on 
one occasion an entire State went into exile, when 
it was totally crushed by an overpowering attack. 
All such cases are in one way easier to manage, 
as regards settling and legislation, but in another 
way harder. In the case where the race is one, 
with the same language and laws, this unity makes 
for friendliness, since it shares also in sacred rites 
and all matters of religion ; but such a body does 
not easily tolerate laws or polities which differ 
from those of its homeland. Again, where such a 
body has seceded owing to civil strife due to the 
badness of the laws, but still strives to retain, owing 
to long habit, the very customs which caused its 
former ruin, then, because of this, it proves a 
difficult and intractable subject for the person who 
has control of its settlement and its laws. On the 
other hand, the clan that is formed by fusion of 

267 



PLATO 

pvrjKO'i 761/09 vTraKouaat fxev tlvcov vofxatv 
KUivMV Ta^a av ede\i']creie /xdWov, to 8e cvjjl- 
TTvevaat Kai Kaddirep 'lttttcov ^evyo^ kuO' ev ael ^ 
ravTov, TO Xeyo/bLevov, ^v/xtpvayaai ')(p6i>ov ttoXXov 
Kal ira'y^aKe'Trov. aW oVtco? e'crrl vofioOeaia koI 
TToXecov ocKiafiol ttuvtcov TeXeooTaTow ^ 7r/30<? 
apeTTjv avSptbv. 

KA. Et/to9* OTTTj S" av /3Xe7TQ)v TOVT €cp7]Ka<;, 

^pd^ €Tl aa<p€JTT€pOV. 

E A0. n yaOe, koiKa irepl vopLoOeTutv iiravicov 
Kal aKOTTOiv dpa ipelv ti ical (^avXnv dXX! iav 
7rpo<; Kaipov Tiva Xeycopev, '7rpdjp,a ovBkv yiyvotT 
UP It/. KaC Toi Tt TTore Sva-x^epaipo) ; a^^^ov yap 
TOi irdvTa ovtw<; coik e-)^eiv TavOpwiTLva. 
KA. Tov St) Trepi Xeyei^ ; 

A0. Kp,eXXov Xeyeiv tw? ouSet? Trore dvOpwiroiv 
709 ovhev vo/MoOeTei, TV')(at he. koX ^vp(f)opal iravTocat 
TT LIT TOV era I, TravTOio)^ vop,o9eTovcri to, irdvia rjpuv. 
7} yap 7roX€/i09Tt? ^laa-d/iievo^ dvcTpeyfre 7ro\iTeia<i 
Kal psTe^aXe vo/xov^, rj irevia'i ')(aXe'irr]<i diropLa' 
TToXXa he Kal voaoi dvayKd^ovai KaivoTopelv 
Xoipoiv T€ epbimTTOVTwv, Kal ■)(^p6vov eirl ttoXvv 
iviavTOiv TToXXcov TroXXa^i? aKaipia^.^ Tuvra 8r) 
Trdvra TrpolSoiv Ti? d^iooaetev * av elirelv oTrep e^w 
vvi> Si], TO 6vi]Tov pev p7]8eva vopodeTelv prjSev, 

B Tvy^a^ 8 elvcLi a')(ehov diravTa to, dvdpdiiriva 
irpdypaTa. to S' eaTi irepi T€ vavTiXiav xal 
KVjSepvTjTiKTjv Kal laTpLKi-jv Kal (TTpaTrjyiKrjv irdvTa 
TavT eijrovTa SoKeiv ev Xeyeiv dXXa yap o/iottu? 



^ fv if\ : fva fls MSS. : ev eli Stallb. , Schanz. 
^ T e\€ CUT druv Badham, Schanz : -rtXtwrarov MSS. 



268 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

various elements would perhaps be more ready to 
submit to new laws, but to cause it to share in one 
spirit and pant (as they say) in unison like a team 
of horses would be a lengthy task and most difficult. 
But in truth legislation and the settlement of States 
are tasks that require men perfect above all other 
men in goodness. 

CLIN. Very probably ; but tell us still more clearly 
the purport of these observations. 

ATH. My good Sir, in returning to the subject of 
lawgivers in our investigation, I may probably have 
to cast a slur on them ; but if what I say is to the 
point, then there will be no harm in it. Yet why 
should I vex myself.'' For practically all human 
affairs seem to be in this same plight. 

CLIN. What is it you refer to ? 

ATH. I was on the point of saying that no man 
ever makes laws, but chances and accidents of all 
kinds, occurring in all sorts of ways, make all our 
laws for us. For either it is a war that violently 
upsets polities and changes laws, or it is the distress 
due to grievous poverty. Diseases, too, often force 
on revolutions, owing to the inroads of pestilences 
and recurring bad seasons prolonged over many 
years. Foreseeing all this, one might deem it 
proper to say — as I said just now — that no mortal 
man frames any law, but human affairs are nearly all 
matters of pure chance. But the fact is that, 
although one may appear to be quite right in saying 
this about sea-faring and the arts of the pilot, the 
physician, and the general, yet there really is some- 



• axaiplas Stallb. : a»to«p(o Zur. {axaiplcu MSS. ai.) 

* aiitiaftty Heindorf : i^ttfy MSS. 



269 



PLATO 

av KoX ToSe ecrri Xeyovra ev Xiyeiv iv rot? avTol<; 

TOVTOl<i, 

KA. To TTolov ; 

A0. n? ^eo9 [xev irdvTa Kal /xera Oeov rv^^r] 
Kai Kaipo<i TavOpwiriva SiaKv^epvcocri ^v/M7ravTa. 
r}ixepdiTepov /xrjv TpiTOJ/ ^vyy^copfjcrai TOUTof<? Seiv 
CTTecrdaL rexvrjv Kaipa> yap [^eifiMVO';'] ^ ^vWa- 
C ^eadai Kv^epv^jriKrjv rj fir/v ^ /xeya irXeoveKTrjfia 
eycoy av Oe{,i]v. rj ttw? ; 

KA. Oyxft)?. 

A0. QvKOVv Kai T049 aXK,OL^ Q)(7avTco<; Kara 
TOP avTov av e^oi \6yov ; Kal Sr) Kal vofwdeaia 
ravTov TOVTO horeov tmv aWwv ^u/xirnrTovTcov 
oaa hel X^P^ ^vvTv^elv, el p,eX\oi ttotc evBai- 
/xovft)? OLKijcretv, tov vo/jLodirijv d\T}deLa<; i^ofievov 
TTJ TOiavTT} TTapairecrelv eKciaroTe iroXei 8eiv. 

KA. ^AXrjdecrrara Xeyei^;. 
D A0. OvKovv 6 ye tt/oo? eKaajov ti rcov elprj- 
fievcav €)(^a)V rijv rexv^jv kolv ev^aaOal rrov Svvairo 
6p6(j!)<i re, <6 Ti> ^ Trapov avrut 8id rvx^l^ t% 
rexyv^ civ fiovov eiriSeot ; 

KA. Yldvv [Jb€V ovv. 

A0. or re dXXot ye St) 7rdvT€<i ol vvv 8t) 
p')]devre<i KeXevo/iievoi rrjv avTOiv evxvv elirelv 
eiTTOiev dv. r) yap ; 

KA. It fir]v ; 

A0. TavTov Br) kclv * vop.odeTy]<;, olpai, Bpdaeiev. 

KA. "£70)7' olfMai. 

• [Xdfi^^vosl bracketed by Badham, Schanz. 
^ ^ fiiiv : ^ /x-fi, MSS. (bracketed by Schanz) 
' Ti, <o Ti> : rl MSS. : n, h Stephens. 

* Kay : Ka\ MSS. (&v for 5^ Schanz) 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

thing else that we may say with equal truth about 
these same things. 

CLIN. What is that ? 

ATH. That God controls all that is, and that 
Chance and Occasion co-operate with God in the 
control of all human affairs. It is, however, less 
harsh to admit that these two must be accompanied 
by a third factor, which is Art. For that the pilots' 
art should co-operate with Occasion — verily 1, for 
one, should esteem that a great advantage. Is it 
not so ? 

CLIN. It is. 

ATH. Then we must grant that this is equally 
true in the other cases also, by parity of reason- 
ing, including the case of legislation. When all 
the other conditions are present which a country 
needs to possess in the way of fortune if it is 
ever to be happily settled, then every such State 
needs to meet with a lawgiver who holds fast to 
truth. 

CLIN. Very true. 

ATH. Would not, then, the man who possessed 
art in regard to each of the crafts mentioned be able 
to pray aright for that condition which, if it were 
given by Chance, would need only the supplement of 
his own art ? 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH. And if all the other craftsmen mentioned 
just now were bidden to state the object of their 
prayers, they could do so, could they not ? 

CLIN. Of course. 

ATH. And the lawgiver, I suppose, could do 
likewise ? 

CLIN. I suppose so. 

171 



PLATO 

Ae. ^epe 8t], vofioOera, 7rp6<; avrov (pMfxev, ri 
<TOi Kol TTw? TToXiv e-)(ov(7av Bcbfiev, Xa^oov e^€i<i 
axTT €K TMV XoLirSiv avrb'i rrjv ttoXlv l/cavw'i 
BioiKrj(Tai ; ^ 
E KA. Tt fieTa TovT eiTrelv 6pdoi<i ecrriv apa ; 

A0. ToO vo/xoOerov (fipd^cofiev rovto, ^ yap ; 

KA. Nai. 

A0. ToSe* Tvpavvovfiivrjv fwi 86t€ ttjv rroXiv, 
(^rjaer Tvpavvo^ S' ecrro) vko<; koX /itvrj/jLoyv koI 
€v/xaOr]<i Kal avSpelo^ koI fieyaXoirpeTTT]'; (pvaei. o 
Se Kal iv TOt? irpoadev eXeyojxev helv eireadai 
^VfMTracTL TOt? Tr]<i aperrji; jxepeai, Kal vvv ttj 
710 Tvpdvvov T)fuv ^ '^vxjj TOVTo ^vveireadai, iav fieXXr) 
TOiv dXXoiv vTrap-)(^ovT(av 6(^eXo<i elvai ri. 

KA. X(0(f)pocrvvr)v fioi SoKel (f)pd^€iv, (o Me- 
yiXXe, helv elvat ttjv ^vv€tto/jL€V7]v o ^evof. rj yap ; 

Ae. Trjv BrjfiwSrj ye, <w KXeLvia, Kal ov^ V^ '''*'» 
(xejxvvvwv civ Xeyoi, (ppoprjaiv irpoa-avayKd^oav 
elvai TO aco(f)pov€iv, dXX^ oirep evOv<: iraial Kal 
67]pioL<i, Tol<i /xev </i.^> ^ aKparS)^ e')(€LV 7rp6<; Ta<; 
r}hovd<;, ^v/x(f)VTOv iiravOei, rot? Be iyKpaTo^i' o 
B Kal fjuouovixevov ecpa/xev rwv iroXXtov dyadwv 
Xeyo/xei'cov ovk d^iov elvai Xoyov. e^j^ere yap o 
Xeyco TTOv. 

KA. Hdvv fxev ovv. 

* I follow here the arrangement of Ritter and Burnet. 

' Tvpdvvov rifj-lv : Tvpavvovfi4vr) M8S. {rvpavvov England) 
8 <M> i add. 

1 Cp. Bep. 473 C ff., 486 A ff. « 696 D. 

• 698 A ; Phaedo 82 A. The "academic" (or philosophic) 
identification of "virtue" with "wisdom" was a main 
feature in the Ethics of Socrates ; cp. Rep. 430 D flf. 

272 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

ATH. " Come now, O lawgiver," let us say to him, 
•' what are we to give you, and what condition of 
State, to enable you, when you receive it, thence- 
forward to manage the State by yourself satis- 
factorily?" 

GUN. What is the next thing that can rightly be 
said? 

ATH. You mean, do you not, on the side of the 
lawgiver ? 

CLIN, Yes. 

ATH. This is what he will say : " Give me the 
State under a monarchy ; ^ and let the monarch be 
young, and possessed by nature of a good memory, 
quick intelligence, courage and nobility of manner; 
and let that quality, which we formerly men- 
tioned * as the necessary accompaniment of all the 
\mrts of virtue, attend now also on our monarch's 
soul, if the rest of his qualities are to be of any 
value." 

CLIN. Temperance, as I think, Megillus, is what 
the Stranger indicates as the necessary accompani- 
ment. Is it not ? 

ATH. Yes, Clinias ; temperance, that is, of the 
ordinary kind ^ ; not the kind men mean when they 
use academic language and identify temperance with 
wisdom, but that kind which by natural instinct 
springs up at birth in children and animals, so that 
some are not incontinent, others continent, in respect 
of pleasures; and of this we said* that, when 
isolated from the numerous so-called " goods," it was 
of no account. You understand, of course, what I 
mean. 

CLIN. Certainly. 

« 696 D. 

«73 



PLATO 

Ae. TavTTjv roivvv r/fitv 6 Tvpavvo<i rr)v <f)vaiv 
€^€Tco Trpo? iK€ivai<; Tai<i (^ixrecriv, el fieWec 7r6\i<; 
a)9 Bvvarov eari rd)(^iaTa kuI dpia-ra cr')(r](Tetv 
TTokiTeiav fjv Xa^ovaa evBaifioviaTUTa Bici^ei. 
OaTTCOV yap Tavrrj^; koI a/xeivcov 7ro\iT6La<; 8idde- 
cn<i OUT eaTiv ovt' di> Trore yevoiro. 

KA. n«09 8r} Koi rivi \6ya) rovro, w ^ive, 
\eya)V dv ri<i 6p6u)<i \eyeiv avrov nreidoi ; 

A0. ^Vahiov TTOV TOVTo y voelv ear , w KXetw'a, 
Kara (f)vaiv w^ eart tovO^ oVrayii. 

KA. riw? \iy€i<; ; el Tvpavvo<i yevotro, (f)]j<i, 
vio<;, crdo^poov, evfia6i]<;, jJLvrjixcov, dv8peio<i, fieya- 
XoTrpeTTJ]'? ; 

A0. EuTf;^r;9, TrpocrOef, firj tear dWo, dWa 
TO yevecrdai re eir avrov vo/j,oderi)v d^iov eiraivov 

D /cat riva rv)(^y]v et? ravrov dyayelv avrco. yevo- 
fiivov yap rovrov irdvra (T)(ehov drreipyaarai. r& 
derp, direp orav ^ovXtjOt} hia^ep6vr(ii<i ev irpd^ai 
riva TToXiv. hevrepov Si, idv irork rive<i Svo 
apxovre<; yOyvwvrai roiovroi, rpirov S' av Ka\ 
Kara \6yov oxrayTft)? 'XcO\-e7rd>repov, oato irXeLOVi' 
ocrq) 8' evavriov, ivavri,co<i. 

KA. 'E« rvpavvlho'i dplcrnjv (f>rj<; yevecrdai 
TToXcv dv, ft)? (f)alv€t, fiera vop-oOerov ye aKpov 
Kal rvpdvvov Kocr/icov, Kal paard re Kal rd-^^Kxr 
av fxera^aXelv el<i rovro ck rov roiovrov, Sevrepov 

E 8e i^ oXtyap'X^La^. rj tto)? Xeyet? ; [kol to rpirov 
CK 8r}p,0K parla<i.y- 

^ [kuI . . . SrjuoKpa-rlas] bracketed by Hermann. 
274 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

ATH. Let our monarch, then, possess this natural 
quality in addition to the other qualities mentioned, 
it" the State is to acquire in the quickest and best 
way possible the constitution it needs for the happiest 
kind of life. For there does not exist, nor could 
there ever arise, a quicker and better form of consti- 
tution than this. 

CLIN. How and by what argument. Stranger, 
could one convince oneself that to say this is to speak 
the truth ? 

ATH. It is quite easy to perceive at least this, 
Clinias, that the facts stand by nature's ordinance in 
the way described. 

CLIN. In what way do you mean ? On condition, 
do you say, that there should be a monarch who was 
young, temperate, quick at learning, with a good 
memory, brave and of a noble manner ? 

ATH. Add also "fortunate," — not in other res- 
pects, but only in this, that in his time there should 
arise a praiseworthy lawgiver, and that, by a piece 
of good fortune, the two of them should meet ; for 
if this were so, then God would have done nearly 
everj-thing that he does when he desires that a 
State should be eminently prosperous. The second 
best condition is that there should arise two such 
rulers ; then comes the third best, with three rulers ; 
and so on, the difficulty increasing in proportion as 
the number becomes greater, and vice versa. 

CLIN. You mean, apparently, that the best State 
would arise from a monarchy, when it has a first-rate 
lawgiver and a virtuous monarch, and these are the 
conditions under which the change into such a State 
could be effected most easily and quickly ; and, next 
to this, from an oligarchy — or what is it you mean ? 

275 



PLATO 

A0. OySa/ift)?, aX\ €K TVpavvlSo^ fiiv irpwrov, 
Sevrepov 8e e'/c ^aaiXiKrji; TToXireia^, rpirov 8e ex 
rivo<i 8r]/jiOKpaTLa<i' to Se rirapTov, oKi'yap'via 
rr)v Tov Toiovrov yeveaiv ^^aXeTTooTara Bvpair av 
irpoaSi^aaOar irXelcnoL yap ev avrrj BwdcTac 
yiyvovrai. \eyop,6v 8t) tuvtu yiyveadcu Tore 
orav aX'qdr)<i fiev vofio6iTT}<; yeprjTai (f>vaet, Koivr) 
he avrm rf? ^Vfi^fj yvcofir)^ tt/jo? tou? iv rrj iroXet 
711 fieyiarov hvvapLevov<;. ov S' av tovto apidpLW fiev 
^pa-)(yTaTOv, icr'^vpoTaTOV he, Kaddirep ev tv- 
pavvihi, yevTjTai, ravrrj kuI rare Ta;;^o? kuI 
pacTTOOvr) rrj<; fieTa^oXr]^ yiyveadai ^iXel. 

KA. nft)9 ; ov yap fiavOdvofiev, 

A0. Kal prjv etprjTai y rjpJiv ovx dira^ dW*, 
otfiai, TToWaKi^;. vfiel^ he Ta^a ovhe reOeacrOe 
TVpavvovfiivijv TToXlV. 

KA. Ovhe ye e7rcdufir]Tr]<i eycoy elfu tov 9ed- 

/jMTO'i. 

B Ae. K.al fiTjv Tovro y av thoL<i iv avrf} to vvv 
Sr) Xeyofievov. 

KA. To TTOIOV ; 

A0. Ovhev hei ttovcov ovhe Tivo<i Trap.iroXkov 
y^povov tS> TVpdvvm peTU^aXelv fiovXrjdivTi tto- 
Xew? y]dr], iropeveadai he avTov hel irpoiTov TavTrj 
OTTTjirep av edeXrjcrr], edv re irpo^ dpeTTj'i emTrjhev- 
fiUTa irpoTpeTreaOat toi'9 TroXtra? edv re errX 
TovvavTLOVy avTov irpoiTOv irdvra v7roypd(f)ovTa 
TO) irpdTTeiv, to, p,ev etraivovvTa Kal TCficovTa, to. 
C h' av 77/90? "^^oyov dyovTa, Kal tov /jltj Treidofievov 
CLTip^d^ovTa Kaff" eKdaTaii twv Trpd^ecov. 

KA. Kat 770)9 olcofieOa Ta')(y ^vvaKoXovOyaeiv 
^ yvw/xri Badham : pdfxri MSS. 
2f6 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

ATH. Not at all : the easiest step is from a 
monarchy, the next easiest from a constitutional 
monarchy, the third from some form of democracy. 
An oligarchy, which comes fourth in order, would 
admit of the growth of the best State only with the 
greatest difficulty, since it has the largest number of 
rulers. What I say is that the change takes place 
when nature supplies a true lawgiver, and when it 
happens that his policy is shared by the most power- 
ful persons in the State ; and wherever the State 
authorities are at once strongest and fewest in 
number, then and there the changes are usually 
carried out with speed and facility. 

CLIN. How so ? We do not understand. 

ATH. Yet surely it has been stated not once, I 
imagine, but many times over. But you, very likely, 
have never so much as set eyes on a monarchical 
State. 

CLIN. No, nor have I any craving for such a 
sight. 

ATH. You would, however, see in it an illustration 
of what we spoke of just now. 

CLIN. What was that ? 

ATH. The fact that a monarch, when he decides 
to change the moral habits of a State, needs no 
great efforts nor a vast length of time, but what he 
does need is to lead the way himself first along the 
desired path, whether it be to urge the citizens 
towards virtue's practices or the contrary ; by his 
personal example he should first trace out the right 
lines, giving praise and honour to these things, 
blame to those, and degrading the disobedient 
according to their several deeds. 

CLIN. Yes, we may perhaps suppose that the rest 

277 



PLATO 

T0U9 aWov<i TToXiTUf Tft) TTjv roiavTTjv Treido) koi 
a/xa ^iav etX7;(^0Tt ; 

Ae. M7?Set9 77/Aa? TreiOeTO), (o (^iXoi, aWrj 
Oarrov koi paov ^era^dWeiv av iroTe ttoXiv tov<; 
vofiov^ ri rfi TO)v hvvaarevovTwv r]'yeixovLa, firjSe 
vvv ye dWi] jiyveadai firjS^ avOt^ ttotc y€v?]a'€- 
crdai. KOI yap ovv r/filv ov tout iaTiv dhiivarov 
D ovSe ')(a\e'7T0)<i av yevofxevov, akXa to5' ecrrt to 
')(aKe'nov yevkaOai, koI oXlyov Brj to yey ovo'i ev 
TO) TToWw ')(^p6vu)' orav Se ^vfi^f], /xvpia Kal 
irdpT ev TToXei dyaOd dTrepyd^erac, iv ^ ttot' av 
iyyevrjrai. 

KA. To TTolov St) X€yei<i ; 

A0. "Orav epco^ 6eio<i rcbv aax^povoov re Ka\ 
SiKalcov eTTinjSevfidrcov iyyevrjrai /j^ydXaif; rial 
Buvacrreiai^:, rj Kara pi,ovap-)(iav Swacrrevovaaif rj 
E Kara TcXovrwv v'rT€po-)(^d<i 8ta(f>epov(7ai<i 7) yevcov rj 
TTJV NecTTopo? idv TTore Ti? irraveveyKr] (f>v(riv, ov 
rfi Tov Xeyeiv pcofirj (f)aal rrdvrcov SieveyKovra 
dvOpcoTTfov irXeov en rw aw^povelv Biacpepeiv. 
rovT ovv erri jiev Tpoi.a<;, w? <f)acn, yeyovev, icf)' 
Tjfxiov Be ouBa/jia)<i' el S' ovv yeyovev r] Kal yevrjae- 
rai roiovro<i rj vvv rjfiwv eari ri<i, fiaKapiw^ fxev 
avr6<; ^jj, jxaKapioi Be ol ^vv>]Koot rwv e'/c rov 
a-(ocf)povovvro<; arofxaro^ iovrcov Xoycov. toaauret)? 
Be Kal ^vfiTrdat]!; Bvvdfieox; 6 avro<; irept X0709, 
712 Q)9 orav et? ravrbv rat cppovetv re Kal crcii(f}poielv 
T] fieyiarrj Bvvafxi<; ev dvOpdiTTw ^vfirrear], rare 
7roXcreLa<i t/}? dplcrrr]^; Kal vofxwv ro)v roiovrayv 
^verai yeveai<i, aA-Xto? Be ov /i»; ttotc yevrjrai. 
ravra fxev ovv KaOaTrepel /xv06<i ra Xe^del^ 
xe^pv^^f^iP^W^^} *^^^ eTriSeSei'x^a) rfj /iiev jfoXeirov 
^78 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

of the citizens will quickly follow the ruler who 
adopts such a combination of persuasion and force. 

ATH. Let none, my friends, persuade us that a 
State could ever change its laws more quickly or 
more easily by any other way than by the personal 
guidance of the rulers : no such thing could ever 
occur, either now or hereafter. Indeed, that is not 
the result which we find it difficult or impossible to 
bring about ; what is difficult to bring about is rather 
that result which has taken place but rarely through- 
out long ages, and which, whenever it does take 
place in a State, produces in that State countless 
blessings of every kind. 

CLIN. Wliat result do you mean? 

ATH. Whenever a heaven-sent desire for temperate 
and just institutions arises in those who hold high 
positions, — whether as monarchs, or because of con- 
spicuous eminence of wealth or birth, or, haply, as dis- 
playing the character of Nestor, of whom it is said that, 
while he surpassed all men in the force of his eloquence, 
still more did he surpass them in temperance. That 
was, as they say, in the Trojan age, certainly not in 
our time ; still, if any such man existed, or shall exist, 
or exists among us now, blessed is the life he leads, 
and blessed are they who join in listening to the words 
of temperance that proceed out of his mouth. So like- 
wise of power in general, the same rule holds good : 
whenever the greatest power coincides in man with 
>visdom and temperance, then the germ of the best 
poUty and of the best laws is planted ; ^ but in 
no other way mil it ever come about. Regard this 
as a myth oracularly uttered, and let us take it as 
proved that the rise of a well-governed State is in 

» Cp. Sep. 473 D. 

279 



PLATO 

6v TO TToXiv euvofiou yCyveadai, tjj B\ etrrrep 
yevoiTO Xejofiev, TrdvTwv rd^iaTop re koI pdcnov 
fxaKpo). 

KA. "IcrcD?.^ 
B Ae. UeipcofMeOa Trpoaap/noTTOvTC^ tjj TvoXei 
aoi, Kaddirep 7rai8e<i ^ irpeafivrai, TrXaTTClv tw 
Xoyw Tou? vofiovi. 

KA. "Iwfiev St] Kot /XT] fieXX(i)/jL€P en. 

AS. ©eof 8t) 7r/L)09 T^y Ti]<; TroXeco*; Karacr/cevrjp 
eTTiKaXoofieda' o 8e aKovaeie re koI dKov(Ta<; TXetu? 
€Vfi€vr]<; T€ T}iuv eXdoi a-vvBiaKocrfiijacov ttjv re 

TToXlV Kal TOU? VOflOV^. 

KA. "EXOoi yap ovv. 

A0. 'AX.A,a TLva Srj irore TroXireLav e^ofiev iv 
C vm rfi TToXei TrpoaraTTeiv ; 

KA. Olov Srj Tt X€yet<i ^ovXrjOeif; ; <l>pd^^ eri 
aa(p€(TT€pov' olov SrjfxoKpariav Tivd rj oXiyap^lav 
rj dpiaTOfcpaTiav t) ^acnXiKrjv. ov yap Stj tv- 
pavviha ye irov \eyoL<; dv, w? 7' ■^fiel'; dv olrjdeirj- 
/xev. 

A0. ^epe 8tj Toivvv, 7roTey0O9 vficop diroKpL- 
vaadai Trporepo^; dv eOeXoi rrjv oikoi iroXirelav 
eiwoiv, Ti^ rovTcov ecriv ; 

ME. M(av ovv Tov Trpea^vrepov efie SixacoTepov 
elirelv irporepov ; 
D KA. "Icrw?. 

ME. Kai firjv ^vvvo&v ye, w ^eve, rrjv iv Aaxe- 
Saifiovi TToXtTecav ovk e)((i> (toi (^pdl^etv ovT(o<i 
rjvTLva irpoaayopeveLv avrrjv Bel. Kal yap rv- 
pavvihi hoKel fjLoi TTpoaeoiKevar rb yap tS)v 

^ "laus.: Hais; MSS. {kclXSis Susemihl) 
280 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

one way difficult, but in another way — given, thai 
is, the condition we mention — it is easier by far and 
quicker than anything else. 

cuN. No doubt. 

ATH. Let us apply the oracle to your State, and 
so try, like greybeard boys, to model its laws by our 
discourse.^ 

CLix. Yes, let us proceed, and delay no longer. 

ATH. Let us invoke the presence of the (iod at 
the establishment of the State ; and may he hearken, 
and hearkening may he come, propitious and kindly 
to US-ward, to help us in the fashioning of the State 
and its laws. 

CLIN. Yes, may be come ! 

ATH. Well, what form of polity is it that we 
intend to impose upon the State ? 

CUN. What, in particular, do you refer to ? Ex- 
plain still more clearly. I mean, is it a democracy, 
an oligarchy, an aristocracy, or a monarchy ? For 
certainly you cannot mean a tyranny : that we can 
never suppose. 

ATH. Come now, which of you two would like to 
answer me first and tell me to which of these kinds 
his own polity at home belongs? 

MEG. Is it not proper that I, as the elder, should 
answer first } 

CLIN. No doubt. 

MEG. In truth. Stranger, when I reflect on the 
Lacedaemonian polity, 1 am at a loss to tell you by 
what name one should describe it. It seems to me 
to resemble a tyranny, since the board of ephors it 

» Cp. 746 A. 

' ToTScs Paris MS. : vcuSa al. MSS., Zur. 

s8i 



PLATO 

i(f>6p(ov dav/xaa-TM^ * w? rvpavviKov ev avrfi 
yiyove. kul toi eviore /j,oi (^aiverai traaoiv TOiv 
TToXecov 'SrjfioKpaTOv/jLevrj /ndXiar eoiKevac. to S' 
av fiT] (fidvat dpLaroKpariav avrrjv elvat Travrd- 
E Tracriv oltottov. koL /j-rjv 8t) ^aaCKeia ye Bia ^lov 
T iarlv iv avrfj KaX apxcuoTdrr] TracrSiv kuX 7rpo<i 
irdvTcov dv6 pcoTTWv Kal Tjficov avTOJv Xeyo/iiprj. 
iyo} Se ovTO) vvv i^aL(f)Pr}<i dvepoortjOel^^ 6vt(o<;, 
oirep eiirov, ovk e)((o Biopi,(Tdfi€vo<i elirelv rt? Tovrwv 
ecnl Tcov TToXcTeicov. 

KA. TavTov crot trdOo^, o) MeytWe, Kara- 
^aivofiai Treirovdevar irdvv yap diropo) rrjv iv 
K.v(ocra> TTokneiav tqvtwv tivcl Biia-^vpi^ofievo^ 
elirelv. 

A&. "Oi'Tft)? ydp, 0) dpiaroi, TroXireiMv fiere- 
^ere" a? Be oovofidKafiev vvv, ovk elaX TroXiTelai, 
TToXecov Be OLKrjaei^i Beuiro^ofxevoiV re koX Bov- 
713 XevovaCiv fiepecnv eavroiv ricrl, to tov BecrtroTOV 
Be eKdcTTT] TvpoaayopeveTai KpuTO'i. XP^I^ ^ e'lirep 
Tov^ TOiovTOV TTjv TToXiv eBei eTTOVO/xd^eaOat, to 
TOv dXr)da)<; TOiV tov vovv exovToyv Bea7r6^ovTO<i 
Oeou ovo/j,a XeyeaOai. 

KA. Tt? S" 6 Oedf ; 

A0. 'A/o' ovv ixvdoi a/jLiKpd 7' ert Trpocrxpv^' 
Teov, el fxeXXofxev efifi6X(o<i Tro)? BrjXwcrai to vvv 
epa>TQifievov ; 

KA.* OvKovv XPV TavTTf Bpav ; 

A©. TIdvv fiev ot)v. Tcav ydp Br) TToXecov (ov 

B e/xTrpoaOev Td<; ^vvoiK7](r€i<s Bi7]X0o/j.ev, ert irpo- 

Tepa TovTcov Trd/xTroXv XeyeTal Ti? ^PXV '^^ '^^'' 

otKr}(Ti<i yeyovevat, eirl Kpovov fidX^ evBai/Mcov, ^<? 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

contains is a marvellously tyrannical feature ; yet 
sometimes it strikes me as, of all States, the nearest 
to a democracy. Still, it would be totally absurd to 
deny that it is an aristocracy ; while it includes, 
moreover, a life monarchy, and that the most ancient 
of monarchies, as is affirmed, not only by ourselves, 
but by all the world. But now that I am questioned 
thus suddenly, I am really, as I said, at a loss to say 
definitely to which of these polities it belongs. 

CLIN. And I, Megilius, find myself equally per- 
plexed ; for I find it very difficult to affirm that our 
Cnosian polity is any one of these. 

ATH. Yes, my good Sirs ; for you do, in fact, par- 
take in a number of polities. But those we named 
just now are not polities, but arrangements of States 
which rule or serve parts of themselves, and each is 
named after the ruling power. But if the State 
ought to be named after any such thing, the name it 
should have borne is that of the God who is the true 
ruler of rational men. 

CLIN. Who is that God ? 

ATH. May we, then, do a little more story-telUng, 
if we are to answer this question suitably ? 

CLIN. Should we not do so .'' 

ATH. We should. Long ages before even those 
cities existed whose formation we have described 
above, there existed in the time of Cronos, it is 
said, a most prosperous government and settlement. 



* davficurrus Schanz : 6avtia<nhv MSS. 

' avfpoiTridf'is Madvig : hv ipwrrjOfls MSS. 

* rou Burnet: rh Paris MSS., Zur. (al. rod) 

* MSS. and Zur. give ovkovv . . . Spif to Ath. and Tldw fiiw 
oiv to Clin. : I follow Scbueider, Schanz, al. 

283 



PLATO 

fiifirjfia exovad ia-Tcv 'tjrii; roiv vvv dpiara 
oLKeiTat. 

KA. ^(poSp dv, Q)<i eoiK , e'lr] irepl avrfj^} Seov 
uKoveiv. 

A©. Eifwl yovv ^aiveTat' 8i6 fcal Trapi'jyayov 
avTTjv eh TO /xecrov toU \6yoi<;. 

ME. ^OpOoTard ye Bpcop' koX top ye €^r]<; 

C Trepa'tvcov av fivdov, etirep irpoaijKcov earl, fjbdX^ 
6p6(t)^ av iroLoiri'i. 

A0. Apacrreov a)<; Xeyere. ^rjfiriv rolvvvirapa- 
Zeheyixeda rrj^; rcov Tore fiaxapLaf ^(orj^, to? 
d(f)dovd re koI avTo/xara irdvTa el')(ev. r) Be 
TovTcov airia Xeyerat ToidBe Ti<i' yiyvwaKwp 6 
Kp6vo<; dpa, Kaddirep rjp,ec<i BieXijXvOa/xev, a)? 
dvdpwTTeia <^vaL<; ovBepia iKavrj rd dvdpdiinva 
BiotKovaa avTOKpdTcop irdvra firj ov^ v^pe(t)<i re 
Kal dBiKcaf fieaTOvadai, ravr ovv Biai>oovfieyo<; 

D ecfiiaTT] jSaaiXea'; re Koi dp')(^ovTa<; rat? iroXeaiv 
r]/jL(ov ovK avOpdaiTovi, aWd yevov<; Oecorepov re 
Kal dfieLvovo<i, Baipova^' olov vvv rjp^l^ Bpoffiev 
TOC<i TToipvioKri Kal oacov rjp^epoi elaiu dyeXar ov 
ySovf ^ocov ovBe atya<; alywv dpxovra'i iroiovfiev 
avTOiai nva^, dW' rf/xei^ aiircov BeairoKop^v, 
dp.eivov eKeivcov yevo^. ravrov Brj kuI 6 deos dpa 
el)? ^ <f>i\dv6pa)7ro<i (av Tore ^ yevo<; dfieivov rjpcov 
€(f)L(rTrj TO Tcov Baip,6vQ)V, o Bid 7roXX% p,ev awTot? 
paardivr]^, ttoXX^? S' rjfuv eTTifieXovfievov r/pav, 

E elprjvriv re Kal alBtb Kal evvopiav Kal d(f)6oviav 
BiKrjf; Trape^op'evov, daraaiacrra Kal evBalfMova rd 
rd)v dvd pdiTTfov diretpyd^ero yevrj. Xeyei Bt] Kal 

^ cus : (cal MSS. (Schanz brackets S^ja koI) 
284 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

on which the best of the States now existing is 
modelled.^ 

CLIN. Evidently it is most important to hear 
about it. 

ATH. I, for one, think so ; and that is why I have 
introduced the mention of it. 

MEG. You were perfectly right to do so ; and, 
since your story is pertinent, you will be quite right 
in going on with it to the end. 

ATH. I must do as you sav. Well, then, tradition 
tells us how blissful was the life of men in that 
age, furnished with everything in abundance, and 
of spontaneous growth. And the cause thereof is 
said to have been this : Cronos was aware of the fact 
that no human being (as we have explained^) is 
capable of having irresponsible control of all human 
affairs without becoming filled with pride and in- 
justice ; so, pondering this fact, he then appointed 
as kings and rulers for our cities, not men, but 
beings of a race that was nobler and more divine, 
namely, daemons. He acted just as we now do in the 
case of sheep and herds of tame animals : we do not set 
oxen as rulers over oxen, or goats over goats, but we, 
who are of a nobler race, ourselves rule over them. 
In like manner the God, in his love for humanity, 
set over us at that time the nobler race of daemons 
who, with much comfort to themselves and much to 
us, took charge of us and furnished peace and modesty 
and orderliness and justice without stint, and thus 
made the tribes of men free from feud and happy. 

1 Cp. Politic. 271. » 691 C, D. 

* T6rt Hermann : t^ MSS. (bracketed by Stallb.) 

28s 



PLATO 

vvv ovTO<; 6 X0709 aKrjOeia ')(^pd>fievo<i, (w? oacov 
av TToXecov firj ^eo? dWd Tif dpxjf ^f 77x09, ovk 
€(TTi KaKwv avrot<; ovBe irovwv dvd(f)v^t^' dWd 
fiifieicrOai 8elv rjfidf; ohrai irdar) p.r]-)^avfi rov iirl 
rov K^povov Xeyofievov ^lov, koX ocrov iv rjfuv 
dOavacria<i evecm, rovrw TreiOofxevovf; Brj/xoaia koX 
714 Ihia rd<i r olK7]oei<> /cal ra? TroXei? 8ioik€iv, Trjv 
rov vov Biavofirjv eTTOvo/jid^oPTa^ vo/xov. et 5' 
dvdpcoTTO'i et9 rj oXiyapxia ti<; rj xal SrjfioKpaTLa 
'^v)(r]v e^ovaa rjhovoiv koX eiridvpLioiv opeyofiiprjv 
Kai Tr\7)pov(r6at tovtcov Beofievrjv, areyovaav he 
ovBev dW' dvrjvvTO) Kal d7r\r]aT(p KUKOiv ^ vocrrj- 
fxari ^uv€)(o/j.€pr}v, dp^ei Br) TroXeojf rj Tti/09 IBicorov 
KaraTraTijaa^ 6 toiovto^; toi'9 v6fxov<;, o vvv Brj 

B eXeyofiev, ovk eart a(0T7]pCa<i p.rj')^avr]. aKonelv 
Bi] Bel TovTov Tov Xoyov rjpd^, w KXetvia, iroTepov 
avTw ireicrop.eda rj 7r(W9 Bpdaofiev. 
KA. AvdyKr] Bi] rrov ireidecrOai. 
Ae. ^Yjvvoel^; ovv on, vojxwv clBt] rive<; (f>acnv 
elvai Tocravra oaairep iroXnetoiv ; iroXtTeicov Be 
dpri BieXr]XvOa/xev oaa Xeyovatv 01 ttoXXoL firj 
Br) <f>avXov irepi vofxiarj^ eivat Tr)v vvv d/iKpia^r')- 
Tr)(Ttv, irepl Be rov fieylaTOv ro yap BiKaiov Koi 
TO dBiKov ol xph /SXeTreiv, irdXiv r)piv dp,<^i(T^r)- 
Tovfievov iXi)Xv6ev. ovre yap 7rpo<i rov iroXep.ov 

C ovre TTpo<i dperr)v 6Xi)v ^Xerreiv Belv cfyacrl toi'9 
vopLOVi, dXX! r)rt'i dv Ka8earr)Kv2a rj iroXireia, 

* KaKoiv Heindorf : KOKif MSS. (Hermann and Schanz bracket 
yoff'fifiaTt) 

^ A double word-play : vovs = vd/jios, and Siayo/Jids = 
Sal/xovas. Laws, being "the dispensations of reason," take 
the place of the "daemons" of the age of Cronos : the divine 
286 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

And even to-day this tale has a truth to tell, namely, 
that wherever a State has a mortal, and no god, for 
ruler, there the people have no rest from ills and 
toils ; and it deems that we ought by every means 
to imitate the life of the age of Cronos, as tradition 
|)aints it, and order both our homes and our States 
in obedience to the immortal element within us, 
giving to reason's ordering the name of "law."^ 
Hut if an individual man or an oligarchy or a 
democracy, possessed of a soul which strives after 
pleasures and lusts and seeks to surfeit itself there- 
with, having no continence and being the victim 
of a plague that is endless and insatiate of evil, — 
if such an one shall rule over a State or an individual 
by trampling on the laws, then there is (as I said 
just now) no means of salvation. This, then, is the 
statement, Clinias, which we have to examine, to 
see w^hether we believe it, or what we are to do. 

CLIN. We must, of course, believe it. 

ATH. Are you aware that, according to some, 
there are as many kinds of laws as there are kinds 
of constitutions? And how many constitutions are 
commonly recognized we have recently recounted.^ 
Please do not suppose that the problem now raised 
is one of small importance ; rather it is of the 
highest importance. For we are again * faced with 
the problem as to what ought to be the aim of 
justice and injustice. The assertion of the people 
I refer to is this, — that the laws ought not to aim 
either at war or at goodness in general, but ought 
to have regard to the benefit of the establislied 

element in man (t^ Sainiviov), which claims obedience, is 
reason (yovs). 
»7i2Cft » Cp. 630 B, 690 B, C. 

287 



PLATO 

TavTt) Selv <lBeiv>^ to ^v/xcfiipou, OTrm? dp^ei re 
ael KoX /XT) KaraXvOtjaerai, koX tov (^vaet, opov tov 
StKULov Xeyeadai KciXkicrd^ outo)?. 

KA. n<w<?; 

A0. "Oti to tov KpelTTovo^i ^vfKpipov eVrt. 

KA. Ae7' €Ti aa<^ecrrepov. 

A0. *nSe. Tiderat St; ttov, (f>aal, tov<; POfiov; 
ev rfi TToKeL eKdaTore to Kparovv. rj ya/j ; 

KA. ^A\r]Of} Xeyei'i. 

A0. 'Ap' ovv oiei, (pUGL, TTore hrjp,ov viKtjaavTa 
D ?7 riva TToXneiav aWrjv rj Koi Tvpavvov dijcreaOai 
eKovra Trpo? dWo t/ irpoyrov v6fxov<i 17 to crvp,<^epoi 
eavTw Trj<; dpy(rj<i tov fieveiv ; 

KA. Uax; yap dv ; 

Ae. OvKOvv Kol 0? dv TauTa TO, TeOevTU irapa- 
jSaivT], KoXdcrec 6 Okjjievo^ w? dhiKovvra, hiKaia 
elvai TavT eTrovoixdl^oyv ; 

KA. "Eof/ce yovv. 

Ae. Iluvt dp" del KaX ovto) kuI TavTt) to 
SiKaiov dv e')(0L. 

KA. ^Tjal yovv 0UT09 X6709. 
E A0. "KaTiydpTovToev eKeivcov Tcov d^icofiuToyv^ 

dpxn'i -n-t'pt; 

KA. Woiiov hr) ; 

A0. Taij/ a ToTe irreaKOTTOvpev, TLva^ tlvcov 
dp^eiv Bel. fcal e(f)dvrf 8rj youea<i fiev eKyovoov, 
veoiTepwv he npea/SuTepov^;, yevvaiov^ Be dyevvtov 
Kal av^vd aTTa ?]v dW , et, fMe/xv/jp-eda, koi 

' <i5fri'> I add (iSflv for Stri/ Schneider). 
• o|ja>/uoTft)j' Schulthess : SiKatufxdrcti' Zur. : A5i(cjj/iciTa» 
MSS. 

288 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

|)olityj whatever it may be, so that it may keep in 
power for ever and never be dissolved ; and that the 
natural definition of justice is best stated in this way. 

CLIN. In what way ? 

ATH. That justice is "what benefits the 
stronger."^ 

CLIN. Explain yourself more clearly. 

ATH. This is how it is : — the laws (they say) in 
a State are always enacted by the stronger power? 
Is it not so ? 

CLIN. That is quite true. 

ATH. Do you suppose, then (so they argue), that 
A democracy or any other government — even a 
tyrant — if it has gained the mastery, will of its own 
accord set up laws with any other primaiy aim than 
that of securing the permanence of its own authority ? 

CLIN. Certainly not. 

ATH. Then tlie lawgiver will style these enact- 
ments "justice," and will punish every transgressor 
as guilty of injustice. 

CLIN. That is certainly probable. 

ATH. So these enactments will thus and herein 
always constitute justice. 

CLIN. That is, at any rate, what the argument 
asserts. 

ATH. Yes, for this is one of those " agreed 
claims " concerning government.^ 

CLIN. What " claims " ? 

ATH. Those which we dealt with before, — claims 
as to who should govern whom. It was shown that 
parents should govern children, the older the 
younger, the high-born the low-born, and (if you 
remember) there were many other claims, some ot 

» Cp. Rep. i. 338, ii. 367. « Cp. 690 B. 

289 



PLATO 

e/jLTTodia erepa erepoiai. Kal St) kul ev tfv avrmv 
rovTO, Kal e(f)a/j,ev irov /caTo, <f)vaiv top vofiov 
715 dyetv hiKaiovvra to ^iuiotutov, 0)9 (^dvai <rov 
Y\.ivhapov>} 

KA. Nat, ravr rjv a Tore i\e-)(6ri. 

A©. S/coTret hrj 7roTepoi<; Tcalv rj TroXt? i^/xiv 
earl TrapaSorea. jeyov€ yap Br) fivpiaKii; fihrj 
TO Toiovrov ev tkti TroXeaiv. 

KA. To TTOtOV ; 

A0. 'Ap)(^iov 7r€pi/jLaxV'^(»>v yevofievcov 01 vlki]- 
aavT€'i TO. re Trpdyfiara Kara rrjv ttqXiv outw? 
ia(j)eTepi(Tav a(p68pa, ware dpyrj'i p-tjS' otiovv 
/j,€Ta8iB6vat Tol<; rjTTrjdelcn, ixrjTe avToi<; firjTe 
CKyovoi.'i, TrapaipuXciTTOvre^ Be dW7]Xov<; ^(oatv, 

B 07rG)9 P'l] TTore rt? eZ? dp-)(riii d(f)iK6fMevo<; eTravaarfj 
/j,e/jLvr)p.evo<i TOiv efnrpoaOev yeyovoTtov KaKMV. 
ravra^i Bi] ttov (f)a/j,€i> T/yLtet? vvv ovt elvai iroXneiaf;, 
ovr 6p6ov<i v6/M0V<; oaoi firj ^vfnrdaT}(i tt}? TToXew? 
eveKa rov kolvov eTeOrjcrav oi 8' eveKa rivSiv, 
araaicoTeia^ dW ov TroXfrefa? rovrovi (pap-iv, 
Kal rd TOVTQ)v StKaia d (paatv elvai, p,dTT)p 
elprjcrOat. Xeyerai Se tovS^ eveKa Tavd' rj/uLiv, 
0)9 rj/jLei<; tj} crfj TToXei dp^d'i ov9 on 7r\ovcno<i 

C e'cTTt Tt<f 8(i)ao/j,ev, ovB" oti tcov toiovtcov dWo 
ovBev KeKTrip^evo^, Icry^vv rj p,eyedoK rj ri yivos' 
69 8' dv Tol<i redelcn vop^ois €V7retOeaTar6<; t rj 
Kal vLKo, ravTrjv rrjv viKrjv ev rfj TroXei, rovra 

* vSfiov Badham (adding rhv TllySapov after (pdvai) : VlifSapoi' 
MSS., edd. 

1 Cp. 690 B, with the footnote. 
290 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

which were conflicting. The claim before us is one 
of these, and we said that ^ — to quote Pindar — "the 
law marches with nature when it justifies the right 
of might." 

CLIN. Yes, that is what was said then. 

ATH. Consider now, to which class of men should 
we entrust our State. For the condition referred 
to is one that has already occurred in States 
tliousands of times. 

CLIN. What condition ? 

ATH. Where offices of rule are open to contest, 
the victors in the contest monopolise power in the 
State so completely that they offer not the smallest 
share in office to the vanquished party or their 
descendants ; and each party keeps a watchful eye 
on the other, lest anyone should come into office 
and, in revenge for the former troubles, cause a 
rising against them. Such polities we, of course, 
deny to be polities, just as we deny that laws are 
true laws unless they are enacted in the interest 
of the common weal of the whole State. But where 
the laws are enacted in the interest of a section, we 
call them " feudalities " ^ rather than "polities"; 
and the "justice " they ascribe to such laws is, we 
say, an empty name. Our reason for saying this 
is that in your State we shall assign office to a man, 
not because he is wealthy, nor because he possesses 
any other quality of the kind — such as strength or 
size or birth ; but the ministration of the laws must 
be assigned, as we assert, to that man who is most 
obedient to the laws and wins the victory for 

* A word coined (like the Greek) to suggest a constitution 
based on "feuds" or party-divisions. 

291 



PLATO 

(f>afM€v Kal rr}v rSiv TeOevrwv ^ vTrrjpecriav Boreov 
elvai rrjv fieyLaTTjv rw irpcoTw, koI Sevrepav tw 
ra hevrepa Kparovvri, Kal Kara \6yov ovtco TOi<i 
i<f)e^rjf; TO, fxera ravd^ cKaara airohoTeov elvai. 
TOV<; S' ap-)(Ovra<; Xeyofiivov^ vvv V7rr]peTa<i rot? 
vofioi'i eKaXeaa ou Tt Kaivoro/j,ia<i ovofiaTwv evexa, 
D aXV rjyovfjiat iravTO^; fiaWov elvai, irapa tovto 
(TfOTrjpiav re iroXec koI rovvavriov. iv ^ fxev <yap 
av ap-^ofxevo^ rj Kal UKvpo^ v6p,o<;, <f)6opav opo) 
TJj TOcavTTj €Toi/jLr)v ovaav iv fj he av heairort]^ 
tS)v ap')(^ovra)v, ol he dp^ovre^ SovXoi rov vofiov, 
(TcorrjpLav Kal trdvd' ocra Oeol iroXea-iv eSoaav 
dyaOa yiyv6fX€va KaOopcb. 

KA. Nat /xd AC, 0) ^eve' kuO^ "qXiKvav ycLp o^v 

A0. Neo? /xev yap wv 7rd<; dvOpfoirof ra roiavra 
E dfi^Xvrara avTo<i avrov opa, yepcov 8e o^vrara, 

KA. ^ AXrjOecTTaTa. 

Ae. Tt hrj TO perd ravra ; dp oi/x r]KOVTa<; 
p,€V Kal irapovja'i 6S)p^v tou? eVot/cou?, rov S' 
ef% avTOi<i BiaTrepavTeov av eirj Xoyov ; 

KA. nw9 ydp ov ; 

A0. "Ai^Spe? Toivvv (f)(t)p,ev Trpb'i avTov<i, 6 puev 
8rf Oe6<i, ooairep Kal 6 TraXai6<; X0709, dp-)(riv re 
Kal TcXevTTjv Kal p,eaa tmv 6vtq)v dirdvroyv e-)(^(i>v, 
716 euOeta Trepaivei Kard (pvaiv TreptTropevop^evci' Ta> 
S" dei ^vveirerai At/oy royv diroXenrop.evwv rov 
deiov vofiov Tip,(op6<i, ^9 6 pikv evSaipovijaecv 

^ TiBivruv my conj. (also Apelt, independently) : dtHv 

MSS. 

1 " Magistrates " = rulers ; " ministers " = subjects, or 
servants. 
29a 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

obedience in the State, — the highest office to the 
first, the next to him that shows the second degree 
of mastery, and the rest must similarly be assigned, 
each in succession, to those that come next in order. 
And those who are termed "magistrates" I have 
now called " ministers " ^ of the laws, not for the sake 
of coining a new phrase, but in the belief that 
salvation, or ruin, for a State hangs upon nothing 
so much as this. For wherever in a State the law 
is subservient and impotent, over that State I see 
ruin impending ; but wherever the law is lord over 
the magistrates, and the magistrates are servants to 
the law, there I descry salvation and all the blessings 
that the gods bestow on States. 

CLIN. Aye, by Heaven, Stranger ; for, as befits 
your age, you have keen sight. 

ATH. Yes ; for a man's vision of such objects is 
at its dullest when he is young, but at its keenest 
when he is old. 
CLIN. Very true. 

ATH. What, then, is to be our next step? May 
we not assume that our immigrants have arrived and 
are in the country, and should we not proceed with 
our address to them ? 
CLIN. Of course. 

ATH. Let us, then, speak to them thus : — " O men, 
that God who, as old tradition ^ tells, holdeth the be- 
ginning, the end, and the centre of all things that 
exist, completeth his circuit by nature's ordinance in 
straight, unswerving course. With him followeth 
Justice always, as avenger of them that fall short 
of the divine law ; and she, again, is followed by 

' Probably Orphic, quoted thus by the Scholiast : Zeis 
ipxht Z«irt fitffaa, Ai6s 5' iK irdyTa rirvKrai. 



PLATO 

fjueXXfov €)(6ijL€vo<{ ^vveirerai Ta7Tet.vo<i kuI KCKoa- 
fxrj/xevo^, o Be ra i^apOeU vtto /j.€ydXavxla<i rj 
'X^prj/j.aaiv e7raip6/u.evo<; rj Tifiac<} rj koI crw/taxo? 
€v/jiop(f>ia, cifia veoTrjri Koi avoia, (pXeyerac rrjv 
•^v)(r]v ixeO^ v^peco<i, to? oi/t' ap^ovTO'; ovre Tivo<i 
r)'yep,ovo<i Seo/nevof;, dWa koi dX\oi<i Ikuvo^ cov 

B rjyeiaOai, KaraXeLTrerat €prj/jLo<; Oeov, KaTa\€i<f>6€i<i 
oe Kal eTi dX\,ov<; 701ovtov<; TrpoaXa^oov aKipra 
rapaTTwv irdvd^ afia, kuI ttoXXo?? tictIv eSo^ev 
eivai ri<;, nerd Be 'X^povov ov iroXvv v7roa-)(^wv 
Tificoptav ov p-epLiTTriv rfj Blkt) eavrov re Kal 
oiKOv Kai rroXiv dpBrjv avdararov eiroir^ae. irpof; 
TavT ovv ovTw BiareTajfieva tC ■)(^pr) Bpdv fj 
BiavoetaOai, Kal ri fiyj, rov e/xcjipova ; 

KA. ^rjXov Br) rovTo ye, &>? rmv ^vvaKoXov- 
OrjaovTwv eaofxevov rat 6e5) Bel Biavoy]6f]vai Trdvra 
dvBpa. 

C A0. Tt9 ovv Br) rrpd^i^ (^tXrj Kal dKoXovdo^ 
0e(p ; fila, Kal eva Xoyov e^ovaa dp')(^alov, ort 
Tw fiev o/xoiu) TO 6/jLOtov ovTi fxerpiw ^lXov dv 
eirj, rd B d/jLerpa ovr dXXriXoL<i ovre rol^; ifi- 
fierpoL^. Br) Oeo<{ r))uv iravrcov 'X^prj/jidrcov 
fjberpov dv eir) pudXiara, Kal iroXv /xdXXov r) irov 
Tt?, cS? (f)a(nv, avdpcoTTO^;. rov ovv rw roiovrw 
7rpo(Tcf)iXi] yevr)(TofJt.evov el<i Bvvapnv on fiaXiara 
Kal avrov roiovrov dvayKalov yiyveadai. Kal 
Kara rovrov Bt) rov Xoyov 6 fiev (raxfipcov r)/j,(t)V 

^ Cp. Honi. Od. xvii. 21S : ws aU\ rhv bfioiov &yti Oehs d>r 
rhv bfiolov. The expression " like to like" became proverbial, 
like our "Birds of a feather," etc. Usually it was applied 
jiiore to the bad than to the good (or " moderate ") to which 
Plato here restricts it. 

294 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

every man who would fain be happy, cleaving to 
her with lowly and orderly behaviour ; but whoso is 
uplifted by vainglory-, or prideth himself on his 
riches or his honours or his comeliness of body, and 
through this pride joined to youth and folly, is in- 
flamed in soul with insolence, dreaming that he has 
no need of ruler or guide, but rather is competent 
himself to guide others, — such an one is abandoned 
and left behind by the God, and when left behind 
he taketh to him others of like nature, and by his 
mad prancings throweth all into confusion : to many, 
indeed, he seemeth to be some great one, but after 
no long time he payeth the penalty, not unmerited, 
to Justice, when he bringeth to total ruin himself, 
his house, and his country. Looking at these things, 
thus ordained, what ought the prudent man to do, 
or to devise, or to refrain from doing?" 

CLIN. The answer is plain : Every man ought so 
to devise as to be of the number of those who 
follow in the steps of the God. 

ATH. What conduct, then, is dear to God and in 
his steps ? One kind of conduct, expressed in one 
ancient phrase,^ namely, that " like is dear to like " 
when it is moderate, whereas immoderate things are 
dear neither to one another nor to things moderate. 
In our eyes God will be " the measure of all things " 
in the highest degree — a degree much higher than 
is any "man" they talk of.^ He, then, that is to 
become dear to such an one must needs become, so 
far as he possibly can, of a like character ; and, 
according to the present argument, he amongst us 

* An allusion to the dictum of the sophist Protagoras — 
" Man is the measure of all things," cp. Cratyl. 386 A ff. ; 
Theaa. 152 A. 

295 



PLATO 

u $ea> (f>i\o<;, ofioio<; yap, 6 8e firj aaxppoyv avofioio'i 
T€ Kal 8id(f)opo^ Kol <6> ■*■ d8iKo<i' KOI raWa 
ovro) Kara rov avrov Xoyov eyet. voi]aa)/j,ev St] 
TOVTOi<i irrofievov elvai tov roiovoe Xoyov, arrdvT(ov 
KoXkicTTOv KOL aki]0eaTaTOv, olfxai, Xoycou, &)? rS) 
fiev dyado) Oveiv koX TrpoaofiiXetv del ^ rot? 6eol<; 
€V)^ai<; Kol dvaOrjfiaaL Kal ^vixirdar] OepaTre'ia 
Oecov KaWicTTOv koX dpiarov Kal dwaificoTarov 
7r/309 TOV evSac/iiova ^iov Kal Srj Kal hia<^6p6vTa><i 

E TrpeTTov, TO) 8e KaKw tovtcov rdvavTia 7r€(f>UKev. 
dKd9apT0<i yap r'qv yjrvy^rjv 6 ye KaKo^, Kadapo<i 
he 6 eVavTto?- irapd he fiiapov hcopa ovr dvhp 
dyaOov ovre 6eov eari irore to ye opOov he\eadai' 
717 fjLdT')]v ovv irepl 6eov<i 6 7ro\v<i eaTi ttovo^ Tol<i 
dvocrioi^, toutl he 6aL0L<; eyKaipoTaTo^ airaa-i. 
aKOTro<i p.ev o^v I'j/xlv ovto^ ou hec a-Toxd^ecrBai' 
^eXr] he avTov Kal olov rj T0t<; ^eXeaiv e(^ecn<i, 
ra TToV dv yiyvofxeva ^ opOoTaTa ^epoiT dv ; 
trpMTOV fiev, (f)ap,€v, Tifxd^ to,^ /ier' ^OXvp^iriov^ 
Te Kal Tov'i TTjv TToXtv exovTa<i 6eov<i toI^ ^^oi^tot? 
dv Ti<i 6eoL<i dpTia [kuI hevTepa] * Kal dpicTTepcL 
vificov opdoTaTa tov t?}? evae^eia'i aKoirov Tvy- 

B Xat'O', rot? he tovtwv dvooOev {rd TreptTxa] ^ Kol 
dvTi(f)(i}va rol^ epuTTpoadev prjdeiai vvv St;, //.era 
Oeov<i he Tovahe Kal roi? halfxacnv 6 y epxppcov 

1 <6> added by Ritter (Schanz brackets kuI HSikos). 

* de! Surges, Schanz : Su MSS. : S^ Zur., al. 

* yiyvofxeva H. Richards : \fy6ix(pa MSS. 

* [Kal Sevrepa] bracketed by England. 
^ [to wepiTTii] bracketed by Burnet. 

1 This account of the ritual proper to the worship of the 
various deities is obscure. Plainly, however, it is based on 
the Pythagorean doctrine of "Opposites," in which the Odd 

296 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

that is temperate is dear to God, since he is like 
him, while he that is not temperate is unlike and at 
enmity, — as is also he who is unjust, and so likewise 
with the rest, by parity of reasoning. On this there 
follows, let us observe, this further rule, — and of all 
rules it is the noblest and truest, — that to engage 
in sacrifice and communion with the gods continually, 
by prayers and offerings and devotions of every kind, 
is a thing most noble and good and helpful towards 
the happy life, and superlatively fitting also, for the 
good man ; but for the wicked, the very opposite. 
For the wicked man is imclean of soul, whereas the 
good man is clean ; and from him that is defiled no 
good man, nor god, can ever rightly receive gifts. 
Therefore all the great labour that impious men 
spend upon the gods is in vain, but that of the 
pious is most profitable to them all. Here, then, is 
the mark at which we must aim ; but as to the shafts 
we should shoot, and (so to speak) the flight of 
them, — what kind of shafts, think you, would fly 
most straight to the mark ? First of all, we say, 
if — after the honours paid to the Olympians and 
the gods who keep the State — we should assign the 
Even and the Left as their honours to the gods of 
the under-world, we would be aiming most straight 
at the mark of piety — as also in assigning to the 
former gods the things superior, the opposites of 
these.^ Next after these gods the wise man will 

(number) is " superior " to the Even, and the " Right " (side) 
to the "Left" (as also the "Male" to the "Female"). It 
is here laid down that "honours" (or worship) of the 
"superior" grade are to be offered only to the deities of 
Olympus, or of the State, and inferior honours only to the 
deities of the underworld. In Greek augury, also, the hft 
was the side of ill omen {tinisUr), whereas in Roman 
augury the right is so. 

297 






PLATO 

opyid^oiT dv, Tjpwcn he /jbera tovtov^. iiraKo- 
\ovOel 3' avTol<i iSpv/iara tBia irarpwwv deStv 
KUTci vojJLOv opyia^ofieva' yovecov Se fiera ravra 
rif-LoX ^(i)VT(ov, ol?^ defies; 6cf}€i\ovTa diroTiveiv rd 
TTpwrd re Koi fxeyiaTU o^eiXrifiaTa, '^(^pecov iravTcov 
irpea^vTara' vofxl^eiv 8e, d KeKTrjrat koX e^ei, 
iravra etvai roiv yevvrjadvTWv Koi dpeyJra/JLevcov 

C TT/oo? TO Trapexciv aind et? virripecrlav eKeivoi<i 
Kara Suvap-iv trdaav, dp)(^ofi€vov diro t7]<; ovaiwi, 
hevTepa rd tov acop-aro^, rpira rd rrj^; "^i>XV^> 
diroTLvovTa haveiajxaTa iTri/jLeXela^; re Kal virepiro- 
vovvTwv d)8iva<i TTaXaid<i iirl veoL<i 8aveLadeLaa<i, 
inroSiSovra 8e TraXaioi^ ev tu> yripa atpoBpa Ke^prj- 
p,ei>oi<;. irapd he iravra tov ^iov e^^iv re koX 
€<T')(^r]K€uai XPV '^po<i avTOV yovea^ €v(fir}p,iav 

D 8ia(f)ep6uro)<i, hiori Kovcpcov koi TTTrjVMv Xoycov 
/SapvraTT] ^r)p,La' irdai ydp iiri(TKOTTO<i roi'i irepl 
rd roiavra erd'yjdr) AiKr]<i Nep^eai^ dyyeXo'i. dv- 
/xovp,6VOi'i re ovv viretKeiv heZ Kai aTVoirLfnrXdaL 
rov dvp.6v, idv r ev Xoyoi'i edv r ev epyois Spoocri 
TO roiovrov, ^vyy lyvoacrKovra &)? ecKorca p,a\iara 
Trarrjp vlel Bo^d^cov dSiKeladai dvfiolr dv oia- 
<f)€p6vT(o<;. reXeurrjcrdvTddv Be yovecov racfjij p,ev 
T) (Tcocppoveo-rdrrj KaWlarrj, fiTjB^ virepaipovra 
rS>v eldiap,ev(i}v oyKcov p^yjr eWenrovra oiv oi 

E TTpoTrdropa roi<{ eavrcov yevvr}ral<; ^ erideaav, rd<; 
re av Kar iviavrov rtov rjhri reXo^ e)(^ovr(ov 
(i)crauTQ)<i eTrip^eXeiaf ra<i Koap^ov (j)cpovaa<i airo- 



* ofs Hermann, after Ficinus : is MSS. 
^ ro7s . . . ytw-qrais Badham, Schanz : tovs . . . ytwriTas 
MSS. 

298 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

oflPer worship to the daemons, and after the daemons 
to the heroes. After these will come private shrines 
legally dedicated to ancestral deities ; and next, 
honours paid to living parents. For to tliese duty 
enjoins that the debtor should pay back the first 
and greatest of debts, the most primary of all dues, 
and that he should acknowledge that all that he 
owns and has belongs to those who begot and 
reared him, so that he ought to give them service 
to the utmost of his power — with substance, with 
body, and with soul, all three, — thus making returns 
for tlie loans of care and pain spent on the children 
by those who suffered on their behalf in bygone 
years, and recompensing the old in their old age, 
when they need help most. And throughout all 
his life he must diligently observe reverence of 
speech towards his parents above all things, seeing 
that for light and winged words there is a most 
heavy penalty, — for over all such matters Nemesis, 
messenger of Justice, is appointed to keep watch ; ^ 
wherefore the son must yield to his parents when 
they are wroth, and when they give rein to their 
wrath either by word or deed, he must pardon them, 
seeing that it is most natural for a father to be 
especially wroth when he deems that he is wronged 
by his own son. When parents die, the most modest 
funeral rites are the best, whereby the son neither 
exceeds the accustomed pomp, nor falls short of 
what his forefathers paid to their sires ; and in like 
manner he should duly bestow the yearly attentions, 
which ensure honour, on the rites already com- 

' Cp. S. Matth. xii. 36: "Every idle word that men shall 
speak, they shall give accoant thereof in the day of 
JHdgment." 

299 






PLATO 

BiBovai' rS) he /jltj TTapaXei-neiv fivrjfitjv evSeXe^?) 
718 Trape^ofievov, touto) /xaXcarr ael Trpea^eveiv, Ba- 
TTavr}^ T€ T?}? BtSofievrj^ inro tv')(^t}<; to fzerpiov T0t9 
KeKfirjKoat vifiovra. tuvt av iroLOvvre^i koI Kara 
ravra ^(ovt€<; eKaaroTe eKacrroi rrjv a^iav ai 
•napa Oecov Koi oaot Kp€LTTov€<i tjjjlwv KOfMi^oi/xeOa, 
iv iXTTiatv dya6ai<; 8idyovT€<i to irXelarov tov 
yStou. a Be 7r/)o<? €Ky6vov<; koI ^vyyevec^ /cat 
<f)i\ov<i Kol TToXtra? oaa re ^evcKa tt/jo? decov 
depairevjiiaTa kuI o/AtXta<? ^vpLiravrcov tovtcov 
dtroTeXovvra tov eavTOv ^iov <paihpvvdp,evov KaTO, 
B vofiov Koafxeiv Set, tcov v6/j,(ov avTcov rj Bie^oBo^, 
Ta fiev ireidovaa, to, 8e fir) vireiKOVTa ireidol twv 
■fjdoyv /Sia koX Slkt) KoXd^ovaa, Tr)v iroXiv rjfilv 
^vp,6ovXr)6ei>T(i)v Oecov fULKaptav re Kol evSaifiova 
diTOTeXel. a Be XPV H'^^ ^^ '^^'' dvayKotov enreiv 
vo/xoOeTTfv o<TTt9 UTrep iyo) BiavoetTat, ev Be a-^V- 
fiUTi vofxov dvapfjLoaTel Xeyojxeva, tovtwv irepi 
BoKel fioi <Betv> ^ Belypa irpoeveyKOVTa avTw re 
C Kol eKeivoL<i oh vofiodeT^aei, to, Xonrd irdvTa et? 
Bvvap.Lv Bie^eXOovTa, to p^eTO. tovto ap-)(^e(xdaL Tr)<i 
Oeaeco^i tcov vop,(av. 

KA.^ "EcTTf Be Brj TO, ToiavTU ev Tivi p,dXi<TTa 
a-x^7]p,aTi Kelp,eva ; 

A0. Ov irdvv paBiov ev evl irepiXa^ovTa elTrelv 
avTu olov TivL Tvirw, dXX ovTcoai Tiva Tporrov 
Xd/3wp€v, dv Tt Bvvcop^da irepl avTcov ^e^aidt- 
craaOaL. 

KA. i\e7€ TO TTOloV. 

* <Sf7v> added by Apelt. 

• Here I follow Ast's arrangement ; Zur. and most edd. 
give (ffTi . , . Kflfieya, with the rest, to Ath. 

300 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

pleted. He should always veuerate them, by never 
faiUng to provide a continual memorial, and assign- 
ing to the deceased a due share of the means which 
fortune provides for expenditure. Every one of us, 
if we acted thus and observed these rules of life, 
would win always a due reward from the gods and 
from all that are mightier than ourselves, and would 
pass the greatest part of our lives in the enjoyment 
of hopes of happiness. As regards duties to 
children, relations, friends and citizens, and those 
of service done to strangers for Heaven's sake, and 
of social intercourse with all those classes, — by ful- 
filling which a man should brighten his own life and 
order it as the law enjoins, — the sequel of the laws 
themselves, partly by persuasion and partly (when 
men's habits defy persuasion) by forcible and just 
chastisement, will render our State, with the con- 
currence of the gods, a blessed State and a prosperous. 
There are also matters which a lawgiver, if he shares 
my view, must necessarily regulate, though they are 
ill-suited for statement in the form of a law ; in 
dealing with these he ought, in my opinion, to 
produce a sample for his own use and that of those 
for whom he is legislating, and, after expounding 
all other matters as best he can, pass on next to 
commencing the task of legislation. 

CLIN. What is the special form in which such 
matters are laid down ? 

ATH. It is by no means easy to embrace them 
all in a single model of statement (so to speak) ; but 
let us conceive of them in some such way as this, in 
case we may succeed in affirming something definite 
about them. 

GUN. Tell us what that '' something" is. 

you X. T 3*" 



PLATO 

Ae. ^ovXot/jLriv av auTov<i to? evTTeiOetndrov^ 
irpo^ dpeTTjv elvai, kuI SrjXov on TreipdaeraL rovro 
vojjboOerrj^ iv cnrdar) iroielv rfj vofiodeaia. 
D KA. IIco? yap ov ; 

A0. Ta Toivvv 8rj \e-^9evTa eBo^i rt fxoi 
irpovpyov Spav eh to irepl wv dv irapaivfj firj 
vavrdTracnv oi)/xa2<i ■^v)(^al^ ^ \\a^6[jLeva\, jxaWov 
S' rj/xep core pop re av dKoveiv Kal evfieviaTepov 
coare el kuI fir] p,eya ri, crpiKpov Se rov aKOvovra, 
oirep (f)T]/j.i,^ evjxevearepov yiyvopievov evfiadearepov 
direpydaeTat,, irdvv ^ dya'jr^'jTov. ov yap ttoWt} 
Tt? evirereia ovBe d(f)Oovia twv TrpoOu/xov/iivcoi' 
eb? dpL<TT(ov OTi fidXta-Ta Kal tu? rd^Kxra 
E ytyvecrOai, rov Be 'HacoBov oi iroWol (TO(j>bv 
dTTo<paivovcn Xeyovra o)? i] fiev enl ttjv KafcorrjTa 
oBof Xeia Kal dviBirl irape'xei iropeveadai, fidXa 
^pa^ela ovaa, 

T^9 S' apeTj}?, <f>T](TLV, IBpfOTa deal irpoTrdpoidev 

edrjKav 
dOdvaroi, fiaKpo^ Be Kal 6p6io<i 6lp.o^ e? avTrjv, 
719 y «at Tp7]\v^ TO irpoiTOv iirr^v S" ft? aKpov iKtjac, 
" prjiBirj Bt) ^Treira (f>epei,^ ')(aXeirri trep eovcra. 

KA. Kal KdXo)<i y eoiKe XeyovTi. 

A0. Tldvv fxev ovv. 6 Be irpodywv X6yo<; 6 
ye fxoL dTrelpyacTTai, ^ouXofxac vp,lv et? to p,eaov 
avTO delvai. 

KA. Ti'^et Brj. 

Ae. Aeyutpev Brj t& vofioOerrj BiaXeyofiei'Oi 

* li/uats if.uxo'i : i/J-v^ ^"Xvs MSS. KafiSjxfi'a (in marg. of 
MSS. ) bracketed by Madvig, Sclianz. 

* <f>7l/xl Verniehren : <i>ri<rlp MSS. 

30a 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

ATH. I should desire the people to be as docile 
as possible in the matter of virtue ; and this evidently 
is what the legislator will endeavour to effect in all 
his legislation. 

CLIN, Assuredly. 

ATH. I thought the address we have made might 
prove of some help in making them listen to its 
monitions with souls not utterly savage, but in a 
more civil and less hostile mood. So that we may 
be well content if, as I say, it renders the hearer 
even but a little more docile, because a little less 
hostile. For there is no great plenty or abundance 
of persons anxious to become with all speed as good 
as possible ; the majority, indeed, serve to show how 
wise Hesiod was when he said,^ "smooth is the way 
that leadeth unto wickedness," and that " no sweat 
is needed to traverse it," since it is " passing short,** 
but (he says) — 

" In front of goodness the immortal gods 
Have set the sweat of toil, and thereunto 
Long is the road and steep, and rough withal 
The first ascent ; but when the crest is won, 
'Tis easy travelling, albeit 'twas hard." 

CLIN. The poet speaks nobly, I should say. 

ATH. He certainly does. Now I wish to put 
before you what I take to be the result of the 
foregoing argument. 

CLIN. Do so. 

ATH. Let us address the lawgiver and say : 

1 Op. D. 287 ff. 



* Tcivu Badham : Tav MSS. 

* ^cfxi : it>4p(iv MSS. : vcAci Zor. (after Hesiod). 



303 



PLATO 

Tooe, EtTre r^fxlv, a> vo/u-odera' eiirep 6 tc yprf 
B Trpdrreiv t)fia^ Koi Xiyecv elScLi)^, ap' ov 8Pj\ov 
OTL Kol av €L'rToi<; ; 

KA. ^AvayKalov. 

Ae. "^pLLKpSi 8r) irpocrOev apa ovk r)Kovaap.kv 
aov \eyovTO<; co? top vo/xoderrjv ov Sel rot? 
7roir}Tai<; eTTiTpeireiv Troielv o av avrol<; rj (f)iXov ; 
ov yap 8r} ^ elSeiev ri iror ivavriov roL<i v6fJU0i<; 
av Xeyofxe? ^Xdinoiev ryjv ttoXiv. 

KA. ' A\r)Or] fievrot A-eyet?. 

A0. "Tirep Bt) rSyv ttoitjtcov el rdSe Xiyoifiev 
Trpo<; avTov, ap' av ra Xexd^vra eir} /xeTpia ; 

KA. Hola ; 
C A0. TttSe' JlaXaLo<i p,vOo<i, S> vop-oOera, vtto 
re avTcov r]/jL(J!)v del Xey6/jL€v6<i ecni Kal rol^ uXXoiq 
irdai ^vvhehoyp,evo<i, on •7roiy]Ti]<i, ottotuv ev rat 
rpLTToht, T?}? Moyo-T^? KaOi^rjTai, rore ovk €fJk(f)p(ov 
eariv, olov he Kprjvrj Tf? to imov pelv eTOLfM0<; ia, 
Kul T^9 rex^Vi ovar)<i fxifiijaeax} dvayKd^erai 
ivavrio)^ dXXrjXoi'i dv6 pdiirovi iroiSiv Siaride- 
fievoix; evavTia Xeyeiv avra> iroXXdKii;, olde Be 
ovT el ravra ovt el Odrepa dXyjOrj rcov Xeyo- 
p^evcov. Toi Be vopoderrj tovto ovk eari iroieiv ev 
D Tft) vopcp, Bvo irepl ev6<}, dXXd eva irepl evo<i del hel 
Xoyov diro^aiveaOaL. a-Keylrai 8' e^ avrcov tcoj/ 
VTTO aov vvv 8t] Xe)(6evTa>v. ov(tt]^ yap Ta(f)i]<; 
T»}9 /xev v'irep^e^X'r)p,ev'rj<i, t^? Be eXXenrov(Tr)<;, 
T^9 Be p,eTpia<i, ttjv fiCav eX6pevo<i av, rrjv fiearjv, 
TavTTjv TTpoardTTei^ Kal e'rrr)veaa<; c'nrXia'i. eyo) 
Be, el fiev yvvrj fiot, 8ia<f>epovaa eir} ttXovt^ Kal 

1 5J) : &v MSS. (bracketed by Ast, Schanz) 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

" Tell us, O lawgiver : if you knew what we ought 
to do and say, is it not obvious that you would 
state it?" 

CLIN. Inevitably. 

ATM. " Now did not we hear you saying a little 
while ago ^ that the lawgiver should not permit the 
j>oets to compose just as they please ? For they would 
not be likely to know what saying of theirs might 
be contrary to the laws and injurious to the State." 

CLIN. That is quite true. 

ATH. Would our address be reasonable, if we 
were to address him on behalf of the poets ^ in these 
terms ?— 

CLIN. What terms ? 

ATH. Tiiese : — "There is, O lawgiver, an ancient 
saying — constantly repeated by ourselves and 
endorsed by everyone else — that whenever a poet 
is seated on the Muses' tripod, he is not in his 
senses, but resembles a fountain, which gives free 
course to the upward rush of water ; and, since his 
art consists in imitation, he is compelled often to 
contradict himself, when he creates characters of 
contradictory moods ; and he knows not which of 
these contradictory utterances is true. But it is not 
possible for the lawgiver in his law thus to compose 
two statements about a single matter ; but he must 
always publish one single statement about one 
matter. Take an example from one of your own 
recent statements.' A funeral may be either exces- 
sive or defective or moderate : of these three alter- 
natives you chose one, the moderate, and this you 
prescribe, after praising it unconditionally. I, on 
the other hand, if (in my poem) I had a wife of sur- 

» 656 fit Cp. 719D. »Cp. 717E. 

305 



PLATO 

uatrreiv avrrjv BiafceXevono iv tw TroiijfiaTi, top 
^ vrrep^dWovTa av Td<pov iiraivoirjv, (f>€iSo}Xo<; 8' 
av Tt9 Kai, Trevri<i dvfjp top Karahed, fxirpov Be 
ovaua^ KeKTij/jLevo'i xal /jLirpio<i avro^i &v rov 
avrov dv iiraivecreie crot.^ aol 8" ou;^ ovtq) 
pr)Teov d)'; vvv etTre? fierpiov elirdyv, dWd ri to 
fierpcov Kal oiroaov prjreov, rj rov roiovrov \6yov 
prjTTQ) (TOi hiavoov 'yi'yveaOat, vop.ov. 

KA. AXrideaTara Xeyetf. 

A0. JJoTcpov ovv rjfiiv o rerayfievo^; ein toi<; 
vop,OL<; firjhev toiovtov irpoayopevT} iv dpxfj tojv 
720 vofKov, aW' ev6v<: o Set ttoiciv kuI /jltj <ppd^rf re 
Kai €Tra7r€i\T](Ta<; rrjv ^rjfiiav eir dWov rperrr^rai 
vofiov, rrapa/jLvOla^ 8e /cal ireidov'^ rol<; vofjuo- 
Oerovfievoi^; firjSe ev TrpocrSiSw ; KaOdirep larpo<i 
he ri^ 6 fiev ovra><i, 6 8* eKeiv(o<; rjp,a<{ eXtadev 
eKdcrrore deparreveiv, — dvaficfxvrjcrKaj/xeda 8e rov 
rporrov exdrepov, iva rov vofioderov hedtfieda, 
Kaddrrep larpov Seotvro dv TratSe? rov irpaorarov 
avrov depaireveiv rpoirov kavrov<i. olov 8t) ri 
Xeyop,€v ; elcri ttov rive^ larpoi, (f)ap.ev, Kal riv€<; 
virrjperai, rcov larpcov, larpov^ Be KaXovfiev 8rj 
TTOV Kal rovrov<;. 
B KA. Ildvv fxev ovv. 

Ae. 'Eai/ re y eXevdepot wariv edv re 8ov\oi,, 
Kar eirlra^iv 8e rwv Becnrorcov Kal Oecopiav Kal 
Kar^ ejjLTTeiptav rrjv rex^vrjv Krdvrai, Kara (f>v(Tiv 
8e fiTj, Kaddirep ol eXevdepoi avroi re fiefiadrjKaaiv 

^ iitaive<j(it aoi : itraiviaoi MSS. {iiraivolri aoi Badham). 
306 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

passing wealth, and she were to bid me bury her, 
would extol the tomb of excessive grandeur ; while 
a poor and stingy man would praise the defective 
tomb, and the person of moderate means, if a 
moderate man himself, would praise the same one 
as you. But you should not merely speak of a thing 
as * moderate,' in the way you have now done, but 
you should explain what ' the moderate ' is, and 
what is its size ; otherwise it is too soon for you to 
propose that such a statement should be made 
law." 

CLIN. Exceedingly true. 

ATH. Should, then, our appointed president of 
the laws commence his laws with no such prefatory 
statement, but declare at once what must be done 
and what not, and state the penalty which threatens 
disobedience, and so turn off to another law, 
without adding to his statutes a single word of 
encouragement and persuasion ? Just as is the way 
with doctors, one treats us in this fashion, and 
another in that : they have two different methods, 
which we may recall, in order that, like children 
who beg the doctor to treat them by the mildest 
method, so we may make a like request of the law- 
giver. Shall I give an illustration of what 1 mean ? 
There are men that are doctors, we say, and others 
that are doctors' assistants ; but we call the latter 
also, to be sure, by the name of " doctors." 

CLIN. We do. 

.\TH. These, whether they be free-born or slaves, 
acquire their art under the direction of their masters, 
by observation and practice and not by the study 
of nature — which is the way in which the free-born 
doctors have learnt the art themselves and in which 

307 



PLATO 

ovTO) Tov^ re avrcov SiSda-Kovai TraiSa^. deirj^ 
av ravra 8vo yevrj rSiv KaXovfievtov larpoyv ; 
KA. n«09 <yap ov ; 
A0. 'A/j' ovv KoX ^vvvoe2<i on hovkwv koX 

C iXevOepwv ovtcov rwv Kafivovrcou iv rat? iroXecn 
Toi"? aev 8ovXov<; ayeBov ti ol SovXoi to, iroWa 
tarpevovcn irepiTpexovTe^; kul ev rofi larpeioi^ 
7r€ptp,evovTe<;, Kal ovre rcva \6yov CKaaTOV irepi 
voar^p,aTo<i eKaarov tcov otKeTCov ov8el<; rcov rocov- 
Tiov larpoiv hihwaiv ovS' airohi'xeTai, irpoard^a'i 
8 avT(p ra Bo^avra e^ €p,7r€ipla<; a>? dKpc^co<; 
etSa)9, KaOd-Trep Tvpavvo<i, av6aha><i ol^erai diro- 
Trr)Bi]aa<i Trpo? dXXop /cdfivovra oiKerrjv, koI 
pa<TTa)vr]v ovro) Ta> BecnroTrj irapaaKevd^ei tcov 

D KUfivovToyv T^9 eiTLiieXeia^ ; o Be i\€vdepo<i o)? 
etrX TO irXelaTOv to, tcov iXevdepav voariixaTa 
depatrevei, re Ka\ iiricrKOTret, Kal TavTa e^eTa^cov 
diT dp')(r)<; Kal KaTa (f)V(Tiv, tS> Kd/nvovTi kolvov- 
fievo<i avTw re Kal toc<; <piXoi<;, d/xa fxev avTo<i 
fiavddveL ti irapd roiv votrovvTcov, d/ia Be, KaO' 
ocrov 0I69 t' ecTTi, BiBdaKet, tov dadevovvTa avTov, 
Kal ov vpoTcpov iireTa^e trplv dv rrrrj ^vfiTreCarj, 
Tore Be /neTa 7reidov<; rjfiepovfMevov del irapacrKev- 

E d^(ov TOV KdfivovTa, el<; ttjv vyleiav dycov, dnoTe- 
Xelv TreipaTai. woTepov ovtco^ r) eKelvco'; laTp6<i 
re lcofi€vo<; dfieivwv Kal yv/j,va<TTT)<; yvfivd^cov ; 
Bixv "^V^ /MLav diroTeXayv Bvvafitv, rj pLova')(fj Kal 
Kara to '^^elpov rolv Bvotv Kal dypi(OTepov direp- 
ya^ofi€vo<i ; 

KA. YloXv TTOV Bta(f)epov, w ^eve, to BittXtj. 

1 Cp. 634 D, E ; 722 B, C ; 857 E. 
308 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

they instruct their own disciples. Would you assert 
that we have here two classes of what are called 
" doctors " ? 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH. You are also aware that, as the sick folk 
in the cities comprise both slaves and free men, the 
slaves are usually doctored by slaves, who either run 
round the town or wait in their surgeries ; and not 
one of these doctors either gives or receives any 
account of the several ailments of the various 
domestics, but prescribes for each what he deems 
right from exjjerience, just as though he had exact 
knowledge, and with the assurance of an autocrat ; 
then up he jumps and off he rushes to another sick 
domestic, and thus he relieves his master in his 
attendance on the sick. But the free-born doctor 
is mainly engaged in visiting and treating the 
ailments of free men, and he does so by investi- 
gating them from the commencement and according 
to the course of nature ; he talks with the patient 
himself and with his friends, and thus both learns 
himself from the sufferers and imparts instruction 
to them, so far as p>ossible ; and he gives no pre- 
scription until he has gained the patient's consent, 
and only then, while securing the p>atient's continued 
docility by means of persuasion, does he attempt to 
complete the task of restoring him to health. Which 
of these two methods of doctoring shows the better 
doctor, or of training, the better trainer ? Should 
the doctor perform one and the same function in 
two ways, or do it in one way only ^ and that the 
worse way of the two and the less humane ? 

CLIN. The double method, Stranger, is by far the 
better. 

309 



PLATO 

A©. BovXei Br) Kal Oeaatofieda to BinXovv 
Tovro ical aTrXovv iv ral<i vofJLoOecriai^ avral^ 
<yi,'yv6fievov ; 

KA. Ileo? <yap ov ^ovXofiai ; 

A0. <t>e/5e 8r] tt/jo? deSiv, rtV apa irpwiov 
vo/iiov 6elr av 6 vofioO €tt]<; ; ap ov Kara (pvcnv 
TTjv irepl •yeviaeca ap')(r]v Trpcorrjv ttoXcwp irepi 
721 KaTaKO(Tfii](T€i Tat<? rd^ecriv ; 

KA. Tt fjii]v ; 

A0. ^Kpxh ^' e'o'Tt Twv yeveaecov Tratrat? 
iroXeaiv ap ovy^ rj twv yd/Mcov avpLixi^i^ koX 
KOivwvia ; 

KA. Do)? yap ov ; 

A0. TafiiKol Br) vopoi TTpSiToi KivBvvevovcri 
ridifievoi Ka\a)<; av rlOeaOai Trpo? 6p$6Tr)Ta irdcrr) 
TToXet. 

KA. YVavTaTracri fiev ovv. 

A0. Aeycofiev Brj Trpunov rov dirXovv. e^oi 
S" av TTft)? ; ^ t'cTG)? mBc ya/x€tv Be, iiretSav €Ta)V 'p ti<; 
B rpiaKOvra, f^'^xpi' ercbv trevre Kal rpiaKovra' el Be 
firj, ^7)/xtovaOai ')(^pi]/xaj-i re Kal dripia, ^(^prjiJLaat, 
fiev r6(joL<i Kal Too"Of<?, t^ Kal rf) Be drifxia. 6 fxev 
airXov^ ecTTQ) ri<i toiovto^ irepl ydpnov, 6 Be BlttXov^ 
oBe. yap-elv Be, iireiBav ercov 17 Tt? rpcaKovra, 
fiexpt Tt^*^ irevTe Kal rpiaKovra, BiavoT)6evTa co? 
eaTiv rj TO dvdpdiinvov yeva (f)vaec rivl fxereiXrjipev 
dOavaalaf, ov Kal 7r€<f)VKev eiriOvfjiLav c(T-)^eiv Tra? 
C Trdcrav to yap yevecrOai kXcivov Kal fxr) dvcovvp^ov 
Keladai TereXevrrjKOTa rov roiovrov iarlv eirt- 

* irSis ; Badham, Schanz : ttuj MSS. 

1 Cp. 631 D,E. 
310 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

ATH. Do you wish us to examine the double 
method and the single as applied also to actual legis- 
lation ? 

CLIN. Most certainly I wish it. 

ATH. Come, tell me then, in Heaven's name, — 
what would be the first law to be laid down by the 
lawgiver.'' Will he not follow the order of nature, 
and in his ordinances regulate first the starting-point 
of generation in States ? 

CLIN. Of course. 

ATH. Does not the starting-point of generation 
in all States lie in the union and partnership of 
marriage .'' ^ 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH. So it seems that, if the marriage laws 
were the first to be enacted, that would be the right 
course in every State. 

CLIN. Most assuredly. 

ATH. Let us state the law in its simple form first : 
how will it run ? Probably like this : — " A man shall 
marry when he is thirty years old and under five and 
thirty ; ^ if he fails to do so, he shall be punished 
both by a fine in money and by degradation, the fine 
being of such and such an amount, and the degrada- 
tion of such and such a kind." Such shall be the 
simple form of marriage law. The double form shall 
be this, — " A man shall marry when he is thirty 
years old and under thirty-five, bearing in mind that 
this is the way by which the human race, by nature's 
ordinance, shares in immortality, a thing for which 
nature has implanted in everyone a keen desire. 
The desire to win glory, instead of lying in a name- 

* But cp. 772 D, Cp. also Ar. Pol. 1252» 28. 



PLATO 

Ovfila. yei-o^ ovv avBpaoTroiv icrri ti ^ufi(f>v€<; too 
TravTO*; 'x^povov, o 8ia reXou? avTa> ^vveireTai 
Kal avviyfrerai, tovto) rat rpoTrw dddvarov ov, 
T(p iralha'i Traihwv KaToXenrofMevov ravrov koX ev 
ov del <yev€aeL t?;*? ddavaaia^ per€i\.r]<j)evai. tov- 
rov 8t) diroaTepecv eKovra eavrov ovSeiroTe ocnov, 
ex irpovoia'i S" dirocnepel 09 dv iraiScov koX 

D 'yvvaiKo<i dfieXfj. 'rrei66fi€VO<; [xev ovv tw v6fi(p 
d^ijfito^ dTraWaTTOiTO dv, fit) TreiBo/iievo^ Be av 
p,r]8e yafxcov err} rpiaKOvra <y€yovu><; kuI irevre 
^TjfUovcrdQ) fiev xar iviavrov Toata koX tocto), "va 
firj hoKrj TT)v p,ovav\iav 01 KepBo^ Kal paarcovqv 
<f)€p€iv, fir) /Aere^eTG) Se ti/jlcov mv dv ol vccoTepoi 
ev Tjj TToXei Tov<; irpea^vTepov'i ainoiv ripSiaiv 
eKaarore. tovtov St) Trap* exelvov rov vop.ov 
dKOvcravra e^ecrri irepX evo<; eKacrrov hiavorjdrjvai, 

E irorepov avTOv<i 8i7t\ov<; ovrco 8et yiyvecrOai tw 
prjKei TO cTfiiKpoTarov, 8id ro rnreideiv re dp^a koX 
direiXelv, r) tw dfreCkelv povov 'X^pwpevov'i aTrXou? 
ylyveadat roU prjKeaiv. 

ME. 11/309 peV TOV AaKCOVlKOV rpOTTOV, Si 

^eve, TO TO, ^pa')(yT€pa del TTpoTip,av tovtcov 
prjv TOiv <ypap,pdT(ov ec rt? KpcTrjv epe KeXevoi 
ylyveadaL iroTcpa ^ovXoiprjv dv ev Tfi iroXei pot 
yeypap,p,eva Tedrjvac, Ta paKpoTep dv eXoipyjv, 
722 Kal 8r) Kal irepl iravTO^i v6p.ov KaTa tovto to 
•rrapdSetypa, el ycyvoiTO CKUTepa, TavTov tovt 
dv alpoiprjv. ov p-rjv dXXd rrov Kal KXeivla tAS' 
dpeaKeiv Bel tcl vvv vopoOeTovpevw tovtov yap 
Tf 7roX.t9 rj vvv rot? rocovroif; [v6poi<;']^ 'XprjaOai 
8iavooxip€vr). 

* [uifiois] bracketed bj- Ekigland. 
312 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

less grave, aims at a like object. Thus mankind is 
by nature coeval with the whole of time, in that it 
accompanies it continually both now and in the 
future ; and the means by which it is immortal is 
this : — by leaving behind it children's children and 
continuing ever one and the same, it thus by repro- 
duction shares in immortality. That a man should 
deprive himself thereof voluntarily is never an act 
of holiness ; and he who denies himself wife and 
children is guilty of such intentional deprivation. 
He who obeys the law may be dismissed without 
penalty, but he that disobeys and does not marry 
when thirty-five years old shall pay a yearly fine of 
such and such an amount, — ^lest he imagine that single 
life brings him gain and ease,— and he shall have no 
share in the honours which are f)aid from time to 
time by the younger men in the State to their 
seniors." When one hears and compares this law 
with the former one, it is possible to judge in each 
particular case whether the laws ought to be at 
least double in length, through combining threats 
with persuasion, or only single in length, through 
employing threats alone. 

MEG. Our Laconian way. Stranger, is to prefer 
brevity always. But were I bidden to choose which 
of these two statutes 1 should desire to have enacted 
in writing in my State, I should choose the longer; 
and what is more, I should make the same choice in 
the case of every law in which, as in the example 
before us, these two alternatives were offered. It is 
necessary, however, that the laws we are now enact- 
ing should have the approval of our friend Clinias 
also ; for it is his State which is now proposing to 
make use of such things. 

313 



PLATO 

KA. KaXcoq <y , o) Me'^tXXe, eiTre?. 

A0. To fiev ovv irepl iroWoiv rj 6Xiya)v ypafi- 
fidrcov troirjaaadai tov \6yov \iav evrjOe^' to, 
yap, ol/xai, ^ekriaTa aW ov ra ^pa-)(yTara 
B ovhe ra /xi]Krj Tifjbrjrkov ra 8' ev rot? vvv Br) 
v6fioi<; prjOetcriv ov hiirXu) Odrepa r5)v krepoov 
Sidcpopa fJLovov et? dperrjv t?}? ;^/J6ta9, aXV oirep 
epprjOr] vvv Sj], to rcov Sirrmv larpoov yevo<i 
opdorara irapereOrj. irpo'i rovro Be ouSel? eoiKe 
Biavorjdtjvai TTMTrore roiv vofwder&v a)<? i^ov Bvolv 
'X^prjaOai tt/jo? rd<; vo/jiod€(TLa<;, ireidol Kal ^la, 
KaO' oaov olov re enl rov cLTretpov irai.heia'i 6')(\ov 
rrp erepo) 'y^poivrau fiovov ov yap rreidol xepav- 
C vvvre^ rr)v dvdyKrfv ^ vofxoderovatv, aW' aKpdrw 
p,6vov rfi ^la. iyoi Se, S) fiaKdpiot, koX rpirov 
en irepX rov<; vo/xov^ 6pa> yiyveaQai Seov ovSafjijj 
rh, vvv yiyvofievov. 

KA. To TTolov Srf Xeyei^; ; 

A0. 'E^ avTOiv a)v vvv BieiXeyp^eOa r]p.el<i Kara 
deov rwa y€yov6<;. (T')(eBov yap i^ oaov irepl rcov 
vofitov rjpyjxeda Xeyeiv i^ ecoOtvov fiearrjfi^pia re 
yeyove Kal ev ravrp irayKoXr) dva-jravXr) rivl 
yeyovafxev, ovSev aX,\' 57 irepl vo/mcov BiaXeyofievoi, 
D v6fjLOV<; Be dpri fioi BoKov/xev Xeyeiv dpx^ecrOaL, rd 
S' efiirpoardev r)v irdvra r)/j,tv irpooi/jLia v6/xcov. rl 
Be ravr etpr]Ka ; to8' eliretv ^ovXr)dei^, ore Xoycov 
7rdvro)v Kal oaoiv (pcovr) KeKoivcovrjKe irpooip-id t' 
earl Kal a')(eBov olov rive^ dvaKiV7]a€i<t, e^ovtrai 

' aviyKTtv Ast: /laxv MSS. : apxh" Badham, Hermann. 
iCp. 720CflF. !oi»ao3; 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

CUN. I highly approve of all you have said, 
Megillus. 

ATH. Still, it is extremely foolish to argue about 
the length or brevity of writings, for what we should 
value, 1 suppose, is not their extreme brevitv or 
prolixity, but their excellence ; and in the case of 
the laws mentioned just now, not onlv does the one 
form possess double the value of the other in respect 
of practical excellence, but the example of the two 
kinds of doctors, recently mentioned,' presents a very 
exact analogy. But as regards this, it appears that 
no legislator has ever yet observed that, while it 
is in their power to make use in their law-making 
of two methods, — namely, persuasion and force, — 
in so far as that is feasible in dealing with the un- 
cultured populace, they actually employ one method 
only : in their legislation they do not temper com- 
pulsion with persuasion, but use untempered force 
alone. And I, my dear sirs, perceive still a third 
requisite which ought to be found in laws, but which 
is nowhere to be found at present. 

CUN. What is it you allude to ? 

ATH. A matter which, by a kind of divine direc- 
tion, has sprung out of the subjects we have now 
been discussing. It was little more than dawn when 
we began talking about laws, and now it is high 
noon, and here we are in this entrancing resting- 
place ; all the time we have been talking of nothing 
but laws, yet it is only recently that we have begun, 
as it seems, to utter laws, and what went before was 
all simply preludes to laws. What is my object in 
saying this? It is to explain that all utterances and 
vocal expressions have preludes and tunings-up (as 
one might call them), which provide a kind of artistic 

3^5 



PLATO 

Tiva evrexyov e'JTt-)(eipricriv XPV^''l^ov 7rpo<? to /^X- 
\ov irepaiveadai. koX Srj irov Kidapo)8iKrj<i wS^? 
Xeyofxevfov voficov kuI Trd(TT]<; Mouctt;? irpooifit-a 

E davfiaaTS)<; ecnrovhaafieva trpoKenat. twv he ovtw^ 
vofuov ovratv, ou? Brj TToXniKoif^ elvai (f>afi€u, ov- 
Sei9 TTdOTTOTe ovT etTTC Tt irpooCfMtov OUTe ^vvdeT7)<; 
yev6fjL€vo<i i^tjveyKev eh to <t>(o<;, o)? ovk 6vro<i 
(pvaei. fjulv he r] vvv hiarpijSt] yeyovula, &>? ifiol 
hoKei, arjfiaivei co? oi/to?, oi re <ye 8t) SnrXoi 
eBo^av vvv 8t] /moi Xe^6evTe<; vo/moc, ovk elvai 
a7rX<M9 ovrco tto)? ScttXoI, dWa 8vo fj,ev rive, 
v6pL0<i re Koi Trpootfiiov rov vojjmv o Stj rvpavviKOv 
723 itr'nayiJia uTreiKaadev epprjOr} toi<; eirirdyp^aai roh 
T&v iarpSiv ov<i ecTrofjiev dve\ev9epov<i, tovt elvat 
v6fio<i dxparo';, to he irpo tovtov pr)6ev, ireLariKov 
Xex^^v vtrep^ rovhe, 6vT(a<i fxev elvai ireicrTHCov, 
IT pooifxiov firjv Tov irepX \6yov<; hvvafiiv e^eiv. 
Xva yap €VfjLev(o<; Kal hia ttjv evfieveiav evfia- 
Oearepov tt}v eiriTa^iv, o hrf iariv 6 v6fio<;, he^rjrai 
to rov vofiov 6 vo/JLodeTT}^ Xeyei, tovtov xapiv 
elprjcrdai fioi KaT€(f)dvr] Tra? o \0709 OUT09, ov 
ireidwv etTrev o Xeycov. hio hi] Kard ye rov €/jlov 

B Xoyov rovr' avro, rrpoolfiiov, dXX^ oil X0709 av 
6p6Si<i TrpoaayopevoLTO elvai rov vofxov. ravr* 
ovv elTTMv Tt TO fiera tovto dv /xoi fiovXrjdeirjv 
elprjaOai ; rohe, <»? rov vofiodeTtjv irpo iravrtov 
re del rSiV vofiatv ^peft)!/ eo"Tt fj,r) dp,oipov<i avrov<i 

* virtp: xnrh MSS., edd. 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

preparation which assists towards the further develop- 
ment of the subject. Indeed, we have examples 
before us of preludes, admirably elaborated, in those 
prefixed to that class of lyric ode called the ''• nome," ^ 
and to musical compositions of every description. But 
for the "nomes" {i.e. laws) which are real " nomes " 
— and which we designate " political " — no one has 
ever yet uttered a prelude, or composed or published 
one, just as though there were no such thing. But 
our present conversation proves, in my opinion, that 
there is such a thing; and it struck me just now 
that the laws we were then stating are something 
more than simply double, and consist of these two 
things combined — law, and prelude to law. The 
part which we called the " despotic prescription " — 
comparing it to the prescriptions of the slave-doctors 
we mentioned — is unblended law ; but the part 
which preceded this, and which was uttered as per- 
suasive thereof, while it actually is " persuasion," 
yet serves also the same purpose as the prelude to 
an oration.2 To ensure that the person to whom 
the lawgiver addresses the law should accept the 
prescription quietly — and, because quietly, in a 
docile spirit, — that, as I supposed, was the evident 
object with which the speaker uttered all his per- 
suasive discourse.^ Hence, according to my argu- 
ment, the right term for it would be, not legal 
"statement," but "prelude," and no other word. 
Having said this, what is the next statement I would 
desire to make ? It is this : that the lawgiver must 
never omit to furnish preludes, as prefaces both to 
the laws as a whole and to each individual statute, 

» Cp. 700B. «Cp. 718Cf. 

» Cp. 715 II ff. 



PLATO 

TrpooLfiLoyv iroielu koI kuO eKaarov, rj hioia-ovaiv 
kavTOiv ocrov vvv hq tcI) \G)(6evTe Si7]V6jKdTr)v. 

KA. To 7' ifiov ovK av aWw? vo/xoderelv SiUKe- 
XevoiTO r/filv rov tovtcov eTncTTij/jLOva. 

C A0. KaXft)? /j,€v TOLvvv, & KXeivia, 8oK€l<; fioi 
TO ye ToaovTov \ejetv, otl iraal <ye v6fioi<; earl 
TrpooL/jLia Koi on Trdarj^; dpyo/xevov vo/j,o0ea-ia<; %/J^ 
TrpoTiOevai nTavr6<i tov ^ \oyov to TrecfiVKO^ irpool- 
fiiov €K(i(TTOL<;' 01) yap a/jLiKpov to fxeTO, tovt' 
ecTt prjOrjcrofxevov, ovS" oXcyov Bia(f>€pov rj (Ta<f>(0'i 
■q fir) aa^(i)<i avra fivrjfioveveadat' to /nevTOi 
fieyaXciiv rrepi Xeyo/iievcov vo/xcdv koL (TpLLKpwv el 
ofxoLctyi 7rpooifxid^ea6ai TrpoaraTTOCfiev, ovk av 

D 6pd(b<; Xeyoifjt-ev. ovBe yap a(T/jLaTo<; ovSe Xoyov 
'iravTO<i Bel to tocovtov Spav, Kal tol TrecfyvKe ye 
elvai irdatv, dXX^ ov ')(pr)aTeov anraaiw avTot Be 
tS> t€ pi'jTopi Kal T(p fxeXwBu) Kal t& vo/xodeTrj to 
TOiovTov e/cdarore eTriTpeTrreov. 

KA. ^AXrjOearara BoKei<; p-oi \eyeiv. dX\a Br) 
firjKer, w ^eve, Bt,aTpt^r)v TrXeico Tr}^ ytieX\7;cre&)9 
TTOidyp-eda, eirl Be tov Xoyov e-TraveXdcoixev Kal air' 
eKeivoiv dp)(^d}fxe9a, et croi <^iXov, aiv oi/x &>? 

E 7T pooi/j.ia^6fX€vo<; eivre? Tore. irdXiv ovv, olov 
(paaiv ol 7raL^ovTe<i, dfietvovwv ef dp')(r)<i BevTeptov 
iiravaTToXi^acofiev, &)? irpooifiLov dXX^ ov tov 
TV^ovra Xoyov rrepaivovTe^, KaOdirep dpri. Xd- 
^(o/xev S' avTwv dpyr)v o/jboXoyovvTe<i Trpootfiid- 
^eaOai. Kal to, p,€v Trepl deo)v Ttfirj^i Trpoyovcov 
re BepaTTeia'i Kal to, vvv Br) XeydevTa iKavd' rd 

^ rov : TOV MSS., edd. 
1 Cp. 716 B ff. 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

whereby they shall surpass their original form by as 
much as the "double" examples recently given 
sur|)assed the ''single." 

CLIN. I, for my part, would charge the expert in 
these matters to legislate thus, and not otherwise. 

ATH. You are right, I believe, Clinias,in asserting 
at least thus much, — that all laws have preludes, 
and that, in commencing each piece of legislation, 
one ought to preface each enactment with the 
prelude that naturally belongs to it— for the state- 
ment that is to follow the prelude is one of no small 
importance, and it makes a vast difference whether 
these statements are distinctly or indistinctly remem- 
bered ; still, we should be wrong if we prescribed 
that all statutes, great and small, should be equally 
provided with preludes. For neither ought that to 
be done in the case of songs and speeches of every 
kind ; for they all naturally have preludes, but we 
cannot employ them always ; that is a thing which 
must be left in each case to the judgment of the 
actual orator or singer or legislator. 

CLIN. What you say is, I believe, very true. But 
let us not spend more time. Stranger, in delay, but 
return to our main subject, and start afresh (if you 
agree) from the statements you made above — and 
made not by way of prelude. Let us, then, repeat 
from the start the " second thoughts " that are 
"best" (to quote the players' proverb), treating 
them throughout as a prelude, and not, as before, as a 
chance discourse ; and let us handle the opening part 
as being confessedly a prelude. As to the worship of 
the gods and the attention to be paid to ancestors, our 
previous statement ^ is quite sufficient ; it is what 
comes next to these that you must try to state, until 

319 



PLATO 

o €^7}? TTeipcofxeOa Xejeiv, fxexpi-irep dv aoi irdv to 
TrpooLfiiov iKavco^: elprjcrOai hoKt). ixera Bk tovto 
i]8rj Tov<i vofxou^ avTov<i Sie^ei \e<ywv. 
724 Ae. OvKovv irepl Oewv p-ev koL twv pera 6eov<i 
KOI '^ovkwv ^covT(ov re vepi koI TeXevTrjcravToyv 
Tore iKavo)^ 7rpooifiiaaufj,eOa, to? vOv Xiyofiev to 
o airoXei.Trofj.evov ere rov roiovTou (f)aiv€i /AOt av 
oiaKeXeveadai ra vvv olov Trpo^ to <f)(a<i irrav- 
dyecv. 

KA. XlavTairaai fiev ovv. 

Ae. AXXa fjLTjv fieTd ye tu ToiavTa cl)9 ^pi) tu 
irepl Ta9 eavToiv ■yjrv^d'; koX tu acofiaTa Kal tus 
ovcTLa<{ airovhri'i re trepi Kal ai/ecre&)? 1(T')(€iv, 
B TrpoarJKOv t ccttI kuX KOCvOTaTov dvaTrep^ira^o- 
fxevovi Tov re \eyovTa koI tou? dKOvovTa<i irai- 
heia<i ylyveadai kuto, hvvafiiv iirrj^okovi, tuOt 
ovv rjfjLiv avTa /Lter' eKelva 6vT(i)<i e'crrt prjTea re 
Kal uKovaTea. 

KA. 'OpdoTaTU Xeyei^. 



3*9 



LAWS, BOOK IV 

the whole of the prelude has been, in our opinion, 
adequately set forth by you. After that you will 
proceed with your statement of the actual laws. 

ATH. So then the prelude we previously composed 
concerning the gods and those next to the gods, and 
concerning parents, living and dead, was, as we now 
declare, sufficient ; and you are now bidding me, I 
understand, to bring up, as it were, to the light of 
day the residue of this same subject. 

CLIN. Most certainly. 

ATH. Well, surely it is both fitting and of the 
greatest mutual advantage that, next to the matters 
mentioned, the speaker and his hearers should deal 
with the question of the degree of zeal or slackness 
which men ought to use in respect of their souls, 
their bodies, and their goods, and should ponder 
thereon, and thus get a grasp of education as far as 
jx)ssible. Precisely this, then, is the statement which 
we must actually make and listen to next. 

GUN. Perfectly right. 



321 



E 

726 Ae. ^Xkovoi Bt} Tra? ocrirep vvv Srj ret irepl BeSiv 
re rjKOve koI r(t)i> (^ikwv TrpoTraTopoiv irdvTwv yap 
Tcov avTov KTrj/xciTcov [//.era ^eoi/?] ^ '^v)(^r] Oeiora- 
Tov, oUecoTUTOv 6v- ra K avTOV Sirra ttuvt eari 
Trdai. TO, fiev ovv /cpetTTO) kuX a/xeivco Seairo- 
^ovra, TO, 8' r;TTft) Koi xetp&) hovXa- tcov ovv 
avTOu ra Beiro^ovTa ael Trport/jLrjTeov t(ov SovXev- 

727 ovTcov- OUTCO 8r} rr)v avrov '^V')(r}v fiera O€ov<i 
ovra^ SeaiTOTa^ koX tow? Tourot? iiro/xevovt; TLpudv 
Selv Xeycov heurepav 6pdco<i TTapaKeXevofiai. Tip.d 
8' &)9 eTTO? elirelv i)ix(av ovheX<i 6pdc!)<i, BoKel 84' 
Oeiov ^ yap dyaObv rcov Tifir), twv 8e xaxciv ovdev 
TifjLiov, 8 r)yovfi€vo<i rf Ttai \6yoi<; rj 8(opot<; 
avTT)v av^eiv rj ncriv virei^eai, firjSev ^eXTCO) 8e e« 
')(eipovo<i avrrjv d7repya^6/jLevo<i Tip,av fiev 8oK€l, 
8pi 8e TOVTO ov8a/jL(o<i. avriKa Trat? €vOv<; yevo- 
fievo<; dvdpcoiTo^ Trd^ rjyelTat iravra iKav6<; elvai 
y lyvQXT Keiv , Kul Tcpav oterai eiraivoiv tt)v avTov 

B "^vxv^, 'fctt 7rpoOvfwv/j,€vo<; iiriTpeirei, irpdrTeiv 6 
Tt av idiXrj' TO 8e vvv Xeyofievov eaTiv tw? 8pa)v 
ravTa ^XdirTei Kal ov Tipa- Bet 8e, e5<r <^ap.ev, 
fieTa ye deov^i BevTepav. ovBi ye oTav dvdpfoirof; 
T&v avTOv eKaaroTe d/MapTrjfjLaTcov p,r) eavTOvaiTiov 



^af 



1 [ixerh dfovs] bracketed by England. 
* etiou : OfTov MSS. 



BOOK V 

ATH. Let everyone who has just heard the ordin- 
ances concerning gods and dear forefathers now give 
ear. 

Of all a man's own belongings, the most divine 
is his soul, since it is most his own. A man's own 
belongings are invariably twofold : the stronger 
and better are the ruling elements, the weaker 
and worse those that serve ; wherefore of one's 
own belongings one must honour those that rule 
above those that serve. Thus it is that in charging 
men to honour their own souls next after the gods 
who rule and the secondary divinities, I am giving 
a right injunction. But there is hardly a man of us 
all who pays honour rightly, although he fancies 
he does so; for honour paid to a thing divine is 
beneficent, whereas nothing that is maleficent con- 
fers honour ; and he that thinks to magnify his soul 
by words or gifts or obeisances, while he is improv- 
ing it no whit in goodness, fancies indeed that he 
is paying it honour, but in fact does not do so. 
Every boy, for example, as soon as he has grown 
to manhood, deems himself capable of learning all 
things, and supposes that by lauding his soul he 
honours it, and by eagerly permitting it to do what- 
soever it pleases. But by acting thus, as we now 
declare, he is not honouring his soul, but injuring 
it ; whereas, we affirm, he ought to pay honour to 
it next after the gods. Again, when a man counts 
not himself but others responsible always for ins 

323 



PLATO 

•^yrjTai Kal tmv irXeicrToiv KUKOiv kov fieylaTcov, 
dW dWov^, eavrov Be del dvairiov i^aipfj TLfiwv 
rrjv avTOv '*\rv)(riv, &)9 hrj BoKel- 6 Se ttoWov Bel 

C Bpav rovro' ^Xdirrei ydp. ovS" oirorav r/Boval^ 
irapa \oyov rov tov vopLoderov Kal eiratvov 
^api^r)Tai, t6t€ ovBa/J,(o<i Tifid, drifxa^ei Be 
KUKcbv Kal p,erafie\€La<i €fnri7TXd<; avrrjv. ovBi 
<ye oTTorav au rdvavTia roix; iiratvovixevov^ ttovov^ 
Kal <^o/3oi/9 Kal dXyrjBova^ Kal XuTra? /xr} Biairovfj 
Kaprepwv, aXV vTreiKr}. Tore ov TifMa vireiKOiv 
aTifiov <ydp avrrjv dTrepyd^erai Bpotv rd roiavra 
^vp^iravTa. ou8' oiroTav rjyrJTai to ^fju travTWi 

D dyaOov elvai, rifia, drifidl^et 8' avrrjv Kal Tore* rd 
yap ev ' AiBov rrpdyfiara rrdvra Kaxd ■^yov/xevrjii 
T^9 yjfvxv'* ^Ivai vTrecKet Kal ovk dvrcrelvei, BiBd- 
(TKwv re Kal eXeyx^cov co? ovk oJBev ovB^ el rdvavria 
7re<f)VK€ p,eyL(Tra eivai Trdvroyv dyadSiv rjpuv rd 
irepl rov^ deov<; rov<i eKel, ovBe p.r)v irpo dperr)<i 
orrorav av irporip^a ri? KayCXo^i, rovr eariv ovy 
erepov rj rj t^9 "^v'yrj'i ovra><; Kal iravrw'} dnpia. 
•^v)(fj<i ydp ar&fia evrifiorepov ovro<i 6 Xoyoii 

E (f)T]alv elvat y(revBofxevo<;' ovBev ydp yrjyeve^ 
^OXvp.iriaiV €vrip,6repov, dXX* 6 rrepl '^v^rjf: 
aX\<i)9 Bo^d^fov dyvoel ft)9 davfiacrov rovrov 
Krr]p.aro<i dfieXel. ovBe ye oirorav ')(prifjiard rt<; 
ipa Krda6at /jltj KaXco<i rj firj Bv(T')(^ep5y<i (f>eprj 
728 /cTco/iei'09, B(opoi<; dpa ri/j,a rore rrjv eavrov 
•^vxrjV rravro^ fiev ovv Xeiirei,' ro ydp avrrj<; 
rifJLiov dfia Kal koXov diroBiBoraL apuiKpov ')(fivaiov' 
324 



LAWS. BOOK V 

own sins and for the most and greatest evils, and 
exempts himself always from blame, thereby honour- 
ing, as he fancies, his own soul, — then he is far 
indeed from honouring it, since he is doing it injury. 
Again, when a man gives way to pleasures contrary 
to the counsel and commendation of the lawgiver, 
he is by no means conferring honour on his soul, 
but rather dishonour, by loading it with woes and 
remorse. Again, in the opposite case, when toils, 
fears, hardsiiips and pains are commended, and a 
man flinches from them, instead of stoutly enduring 
them, — then by his flinching he confers no honour 
on his soul ; for by all such actions he renders it 
dishonoured. Again, when a m.-.n deems life at any 
price to be a good thing, then also he does not 
honour, but dishonour, to his soul ; for he yields to 
the imagination of his soul that the conditions in 
Hades are altogether evil, instead of opposing it, 
by teaching and convincing his soul that, for all it 
knows, we may find, on the contrary, our greatest 
blessings in the realm of the gods below. Again, 
when a man honours beauty above goodness, this is 
nothing else than a literal and total dishonouring of 
the soul ; for such a statement asserts that the body 
is more honourable than the soul, — but falsely, since 
nothing eartli-born is more honourable than the 
things of heaven, and he that surmises otherwise 
concerning the soul knows not that in it he possesses, 
and neglects, a thing most admirable. Again, when 
a man craves to acquire wealth ignobly, or feels no 
qualm in so acquiring it, he does not then by his 
gifts pay honour to his soul, — far from it, in sooth ! — 
for what is honourable therein and noble he is 
bartering away for a handful of gold ; yet all the 



PLATO 

TTa? <yap 6 t' eVi 7779 koX vtto <yrj<; ^/juco? aperrj'^; 
ovK avjd^io^. 0)9 Be elirelv ^vWi'^BBrjv, 09 a7re/j 
av vofiodeTtj^ ala')(pa elvai xal kuku 8iapid/xov- 
fi€vo<; Tarrr] koI rovvavriov dyaOa Kal KoKd, rSiv 
fiev d7re)(€a6ac /xrj idiXeL ^ irda-r} fiij'^^^av^, ra Se 
iiriTrjoeveiv ^ufiTraaav Kara Bvvap,tv, ovk olSev iv 

B T0UT0t9 irdcrt frd'i dv6pco7ro<i '^v^r]v OeioTarov ov 
aTi/xorara /cal KaKO(T)(^r)p,ov€aTaTa 8iaridei<;. Trjv 
yap XeyojxevTjv BLktjv t?79 KUKovpyla^ rrjv fieyiarr^v 
ovhel^ ft)9 e7ro9 elirelv Xoyl^CTai, eari S" r/ fieyia-Trj 
TO ojxoiovadai roi<i ovai KaKol<; dvSpdaiv, ofioiov- 
fievov Be Toi'9 fiev dyadov^ ^evyeiv dvBpa<i koX 
Xoyovf Kal aTroaxi^eaOai, Tot9 Be irpoaKoXXaadaL 
BidoKOvra Kara rd^ ^vvovala^;' 7rpocr'7r€(j)VK6Ta Be 
T0t9 TOiovTOt<i dvdyKi-j TTOieiv Kal •Trda-)(eLV a Trecpv- 
Kaaiv dXX7]Xov<; ol roiovroi ttolgIv [«at] ^ Xeyeiv. 

C TOVTO ovv Br) TO irddo'i Blkt] fxev ovk eari, koXov 
yap TO 76 BiKaiov Ka\ r] BLkt], rifAOipia Be, dBiKia<; 
aKoXovdo^i -rrddr}, 979 re TV)(a)V Kal firj Tvyxdvcov 
dOXto^, 6 jxev OVK larpevofMevof:, 6 Be, iva erepoi 
TToXXol (Tuy^covraL, drroXXvpLevoii. 

Ti/J-T) B' eaTiv 7]filv, 0)9 TO oXov elirelv, toi<; fiev 
dfieivoaiv eTrecrOai, rd Be x^ipova yeveadai Be 
yScXTto) Bvvard tout' avro o)9 dpiara diroTeXelv. 
'«/ri/^7)9 ovv dvOpmirq) Krrjfia ovk ecrriv ev^vecrrepov 

D 619 TO (fivyeiv fiev to KaKov, l')(yev(Tai Be Kal kXelv 
ro irdvTwv dpiarov, Kal eXovTa av KOivrj ^vvoikciv 



* iBfXft Peipers, Schanz : (dfKj] MSS, 
^ [kuI] omitted by Paris MS. (Schanz 



(Schanz brackets koI Xtytiv). 
Cp. 716 C, D. 



326 



LAWS, BOOK V 

gold on earth, or under it, does not equal the price 
of goodness. To speak shortly : — in respect of the 
things which the lawgiver enumerates and describes 
as either, on the one hand, base and evil, or, on the 
other hand, noble and good, if any man refuses to 
avoid by every means the one kind, and with all his 
power to practise the other kind, — such a man knows 
not that everyone who acts thus is treating most 
dishonourably and most disgracefully that most divine 
of things, his soul. Hardly anyone takes account 
of the greatest "judgment" (as men call it) upon 
evil-doing ; that greatest judgment is this, — to grow 
like unto men that are wicked, and, in so growing, 
to shun good men and good counsels and cut one- 
self off from them,^ but to cleave to the company 
of the wicked and follow after them ; and he that 
is joined to such men inevitably acts and is acted 
upon in the way that such men bid one another to 
act. Now such a resultant condition is not a "judg- 
ment" (for justice and judgment are things honour- 
able), but a punishment, an infliction that follows 
on injustice; both he that undergoes this and he 
that undergoes it not are alike wretched, — the one 
in that he remains uncured, the other in that he is 
destroyed in order to secure the salvation of many 
others.2 

Thus we declare that honour, speaking generally, 
consists in following the better, and in doing our 
utmost to effect the betterment of the worse, when it 
admits of being bettered. Man has no possession 
better fitted by nature than the soul for the avoidance 
of evil and the tracking and taking of what is best of 
all, and living in fellowship therewith, when he has 

« Cp. 731 C, 854 Cffi, 957 BflF. 

327 



7 PLATO 

TOP €7n\onrov ^lov Sio BevTcpov erdydri riixfj, 
TO oe rpiTov, Ira's av rouro je voy]<ret€, tt)v tov 
<T(Ofiaro^ €ivai Kara <f>v(7iv Tifirjv. Ta<} S' av 
Tifia<i hel a/coTrelv, xal tovtcov riva aXijdel^ /cat 
oaai KL^SrjXor tovto Se vofioderov. firjvveiv 8r] 
fiot (patverai rdaSe koI roidaSe Ti.vd<; avra<i elvai, 
TLfiiov etvat ao!)/jLa ou ro kuXov ovSe Ic-^^vpov ovSe 
E Ta%09 exov ovSe fieya, ovSe je to vyieivov — Kai toi 
7roWot<i av tovto ye SokoI — , Kal firjv ovSi to, 
TOVTCOV 7 ivavTia, to, S' ev tw jxeao) dTrdatji; tuv- 
Tt}<i tt}? e^e&j? e(f>a7rT6/jL€va aoic^poveiTTaTa d/xa re 
d<T(j)aXeaTaTa elvai fiaKpat' ra fiev yap ')(^avvov<i 
Ta<; ■^v)(a^ Kal Opacrelaf Troiei, to, Se TaTreivd'i re 
Kal dve\ev6epov<;' d)<; S' avTO)^ r] twv ■)(^prifidT(ov 
Kal KTrjfidToyv KT7Jcn<; koI Tf/i7;crea)? Kara tov 
avTOV pvdfibv e'X^ei. Ta fiev virepoyKa yap exda- 
729 Tcov TOVTCOV e')(0pO'^ Kal aTdaei<; direpyd^eTai, Tat? 
TTokeai Kal I8ia, to, S' iWeuTrovTa SovXeia'i w? to 
TToXv. /iir) 8-^ Tt9 (f)iXo')(^pr]/j,ovelTO) iraihcov 7' 
evcKa, Xva oti TrXovaicoTdTov; KaTaXiirr)' ovt€ 
yap eKeivoi^ ovt av tj) iroXei dfieivov. 77 yap 
TMV vicov dKoXdKevTO<i ovaia, tmv K dvayKatcov 
fiT) iv8e7]i;, avTT) Tracrwv fiovaiKcoTdTr} Te Kal 
dpiaTT)' ^VfKf)(ovovaa yap tj/Mv Kal ^vvapfjuoT- 
Tovaa et9 diravTa dXvirov tov ^iov aTrepyd^eTai. 
B irataX 8e al8(o ^PV TroXXrjv, ov -ypvaov KaTa- 
XetTreiv. olofxeOa S' e7n7rX7)TT0VT€<i to?? veoi^ 
dvaia-'x^vvTovai tovto KaTaXei-^eLV to 8' ccttiv 



^ The first place belonga to the gods (*.«. to Divine 
Reason). 

328 



LAWS, BOOK V 

taken it, for all his life thereafter. Wherefore the soul 
is put second ^ in order of honour ; as for the tliird, 
everyone would conceive that this place naturally be- 
longs to the honour due to the body. But here again 
one has to investigate the various forms of honour, — 
which of them are genuine, which spurious ; and this 
is the lawgiver's task. Now he, as I suppose, declares 
that the honours are these and of these kinds : — 
the honourable body is not the fair body nor the 
strong nor the swift nor the large, nor yet the body 
that is sound in health, — although this is what many 
believe ; neither is it a body of the opposite kind 
to any of these ; rather those bodies which hold 
the mean position between all these opposite ex- 
tremes are by far the most temperate and stable ; 
for while the one extreme makes the souls puffed 
up and proud, the other makes them lowly and 
spiritless. The same holds good of the possession 
of goods and chattels, and they are to be valued 
on a similar scale. In each case, when they are in 
excess, they produce enmities and feuds both in 
States and privately, while if they are deficient they 
produce, as a rule, serfdom. And let no man love 
riches for the sake of his children, in order that he 
may leave them as wealthy as jxjssible ; for that is 
good neither for them nor for the State. For the 
young the means that attracts no flatterers, yet is 
not lacking in things necessary, is the most har- 
monious of all and the best ; for it is in tune with 
us and in accord, and thus it renders our life in all 
respects painless. To his children it behoves a man 
to bequeath modesty, not money, in abundance. 
We imagine that chiding the young for their irrever- 
ence is the way to bequeath this; but no such 

3»9 



PLATO 

ovK €K Tov vvv TTapaKeXevfiaro^ rot? veoi<{ ycyvo- 
fievov, irapaKeXevovrai Xeyovre^ a)<i Set iravra 
aicrx^vecrOai tov veov. 6 8e e/j,(f)pci)v vofiodeTT}^ 
TOi? •npea^vTepoi^ av pboXXov TrapaKeXevoiro 
aia-x^vvecrdai tov<; vkov<i, koX irdvTwv fMoXiaTa 
evXa^eiaOai fit] irore ri<; avrov iSrj rwv vecov rj 
Kal iiraKOvar] SpcovTa 17 Xeyovrd re rwv ala')(^pSiv, 

C o)? OTTOv dvaL(j-)(yvrova L yepovTe<i, dvciyKT] Kai 
vkov<; ivravOa elvat dvaiheardTov^' TraiSela yap 
vicov 8ia(f)epov(Td iariv dp,a koI avroiv ov to 
vovderelv, dXX^ UTvep av dXXov vovOeTwv etTTOi Tt<?, 
(fyaiveaOai ravTU avTov BpoyvTa Sid ^lov. ^vy- 
yiveiav he Kal ofioyvicov Oetov Koivwviav diraaav 
TavTov <f)v<Tiv aipLaTOt e^ovaav ti/jlcov rt? Kal 
(je^6fxevo<; evvov<; av yevedXiov<i 6eov<i €i<; TratScov 
avTov aTTopdv icr-x^oi Kara Xoyov. Kal fxriv ro ye 

D (piXfov Kal kraipoiv 7rp6<; to<? iv Bim 6piXia<i 
evp,ev€<i dv ti<; ktwto fxei^ovi fiev Kal aepivoT€pa% 
Td<i eKeivwv vTnjpecrta^; el<; avrov 7)yovp,€vo<; rj 
*Keivoi, eXdrrov; 5' av ra? avrov Siavoovp,€vo^ ets 
Toi'9 (f)iXov<i ')(dpira<i airrSiv rwv (f)i,Xcov re kuI 
eraiptov. €/'? pir^v ttoXlv Kal iroXira'; paKpw 
dpiaro^ 0(Tri<t rrpb rov ^OXvp^Triaat Kal dirdvrayv 
dycovcov TToXefiiKcov re Kal elprjviKoiiv viKav Be^acr 
dv Bo^rj vrrr^peaia^ roiv o'Ikoi vopLCDV, o)? vTrrjperrf- 
/c&)9 rrdvrcov KdXXiar dvOpMircov avrol<; ev rat 

E $i(p. irpo^ 5' av rov<i ^evov<i Siavorjreov <h<; 
dytcorara ^vpbQoXaia ovra' <T-)(^ehov yap irdvr 
earl rd rS)v ^evcov [xal ei'v rov<i ^evov^^ ^ dp.apr^- 

' [Kal . . . ^4vov\] bracketed by England (after F. H. 
Dale). 

330 



LAWS, BOOK V 

result follows from tlie admonition commonly given 
nowadays to the young, when people tell them that 
"youth must reverence everyone." Rather will 
the prudent lawgiver admonish the older folk to 
reverence the young, and above all to beware lest 
any of them be ever seen or heard by any of the 
young either doing or saying anything shameful ; 
for where the old are shameless, there inevitably 
will also the young be very impudent. The most 
effective way of training the young — as well as the 
older people themselves — is not by admonition, but 
by plainly practising throughout one's own life the 
admonitions which one gives to others. By paying 
honour and reverence to his kinsfolk, and all who 
share in the worship of the tribal gods and are 
sprung from the same blood, a man will, in pro- 
portion to his piety, secure the good-will of the 
gods of Birth to bless his own begetting of children. 
Moreover, a man will find his friends and companions 
kindly disposed, in regard to life's intercourse, if he 
sets higher than they do the value and importance 
of the services he receives from them, while counting 
the favours he confers on them as of less value than 
they are deemed by his companions and friends 
themselves. In relation to his State and fellow- 
citizens that man is by far the best who, in pre- 
ference to a victory at Olympia or in any other 
contest of war or peace, would choose to have a 
victorious reputation for service to his native laws, 
as being the one man above all others who has 
served them with distinction throughout his life. 
Further, a man should regard contracts made with 
strangers as specially sacred ; for practically all the 
sins against Strangers are — as compared with those 

33» 



PLATO 

fiara irapa ra twv ttoXitoov et? Oeov dvr)pTr)/j,eva 
Tlficopov fjidWov €pr]/j,o<; yap oiv 6 ^evo<; kraiptov 
T€ Kol ^uyyevMV iXeeivorepo'i avdpcoTroi^ ical Oeol'i. 
6 8vvdp,€vo<; ovv rifjuopeiv p,dWov ^orjdel irpodv- 
fxorepov hvvarai he 8ia(f)€p6vTco<i 6 ^iviof €Kd(XTcov 
730 haipa>v kol de6<; tm ^eviw crvveTrop-evoi. Att* 7roWrj<; 
ovv evXaffeiwi, oS /cat a-p,iKpbv Trpo/xrjdeLa'i evi, 
firjSev dp,dpTT]p,a7repl ^evov<} dpaprovra iv tm ^iw 
trpo'i TO Te\o9 avTOv iropevOrjvaL. ^eviKwv 8' av 
Kai eTTi^copLcov dp/xprt]p,dT(ov to irepl toj)? iKera^; 
fieyiarov yiyverai d/u,dpTr)fia €Kd(TTOi<;. p,e6^ ov 
yap iKeTev(Ta<; fidprvpot 6 iK€T7j<i Oeou dirervx^ev^ 
ofjioXoyiSiv, (f)vXa^ Biacfyepcov owto? tov Tradovro'i 
yiyverat, wctt ovk dv irore drip(i}pr)ro<i rrdOoi [o 
rv^f^v] ^ oiiv etrade. 

B Ta p,ev ovv trepX yovea<; re Kal eavrov koX rd 
eavTov, Trepl rrroXiv re Kal <piXov<i Kal ^vyy eveiav 
^eviKd re Kal iiri'^^copia, BLeXrjXvOa/xev cr')(^€86v 
ofiiXj'jpaTa. TO 8e Troio? Tt? mv auTO? dv KdXXtara 
8iaydyoc tov jSlov, kirofievov tovtw 8i€^eX0elv' ocra 
firjv ov ^ vofio^ dXX eiraivo^ TraiSevaov Kal yp-oyot 
eKacTTOv^ evrjviov^ p,dXXov Kal €vp,€V€i<; toi<; TeOrj- 
aeadai pLeXXovcri vo/noi^ direpydl^eTai,^ TavT earl 
peTa TOVTO rjplv prjTeov. dXrjdeia hrj irdvTcov fikv 

C dyadwv 6eol<; rjyeiTai,, TrdvTwv 8e dvdp(t)7roi<i' rj<; 
yevijaeaBai p.eXXa>v paKapio'i re koX ev8aipa)v 
ef dp')(rj<i ev6v<i /ieVo^^o? eXri, Xva co? irXelaTOv 

^ iirtTuxf Badham, Schanz: trvx^v MS8. 
' [6 Tvx^v] I bracket. 

• o(ra fiiiv oil W. -MollendorflF : So-* iv /x^ MSS. (iffa fiii 
fSchanz) 

* aTTepyi^trat MSS. : anfpyd(rnat Ast, ZuT. 



LAWS, BOOK \ 

against citizens — connected more closely with an 
avenging deity. For the stranger, inasmuch as he 
is without companions or kinsfolk, is the more to be 
pitied by men and gods ; wherefore he that is most 
able to avenge succours them most readilv, and the 
most able of all, in every case, is the Strangers' 
daemon and god, and these follow in the train of 
Zeus Xenios.^ Whoso, then, is possessed of but a 
particle of forethought will take the utmost care to 
go through life to the very end without committing 
any offence in respect of Strangers. Of offences 
against either Strangers or natives, that which 
touches suppliants is in every case the most grave ; 
for when a suppliant, after invoking a god as witness, 
is cheated of his compact, that god becomes the 
special guardian of him who is wronged, so that he 
will never be wronged without vengeance being 
taken for his wrongs. 

As concerns a man's social relations towards his 
parents, himself and his own belongings, towards the 
State also and friends and kindred, — ^whether foreign 
relations or domestic, — our exposition is now fairly 
complete. It remains to expound next the character 
which is most conducive to nobility of life ; and after 
that we shall have to state all the matters which are 
subject, not to law, but rather to praise or blame, — 
as the instruments whereby the citizens are educated 
individually and rendered more tractable and well- 
inclined towards the laws which are to be imposed 
on them. Of all the goods, for gods and men alike, 
truth stands first. Thereof let every man partake 
from his earliest days, if he jjurposes to become 
blessed and happy, that so he may live his life as a 

' The supreme Gnardian of the rights of hospitality. 

VOL. I. jj 333 



PLATO 

Xpovov aXrfOrj^; oiv Sia^iotTj. TrtcTTo? ydp' 6 Se 
aTTKrro^, a> <f)iXov yfrevSo'i eKovaiov oxft) he aKOv- 
P'lov, avov<i. wv ovherepov ^tjXwtov' a<^t,\o<i yap 
or) Tra? o re ^ aTrfcrTO? Kal <6> ^ dp,a6rj<;, ^povov 
6e 7rpoiouTO<i yvuxrOel^ el<; to -^^aXerrov yrjpai; iptj- 
fdav auTw irdcrav KaTea/cevdcraTo eirl reXet tov 
D ^iov, axxTe ^(ovtwv koX /xt) eraipcov Kal TratScov 
(T')(ehov o/j,OLQ)<i 6p(f)avov avrw yeveadai tov ^iov. 
TijXLO^ piev hrj Kal 6 p^rfhev dSiKcov 6 Be p.rjS' im- 
Tpeircov TOt? dhiKOva-iv dBiKelv irXeov fj hnr\aaia<i 
Tip,rj<; d^io^ eKelvov 6 pev ydp ev6<i, 6 8e ttoWwv 
dvrd^io^ erepcov, p,r)vviov tt)v tmv dWcov tol<; 
ap')(ovcnv dhiKiav. 6 Be Kal ^uyKoXd^wv et? Bvva- 
piv T0t9 dp^ovaiv, 6 peya<i dvrjp ev TroXei Kal 
reXeiof; ovro^ dvayopevecrdw viKr]^6po<i dpeTrj. 
E Tov avTov Bij tovtov eiraivov kol irepl awcppocrv- 
V7)<; XPV Xeyeiv Kal nrepl (f)povi](r€co<i, Kal oaa dXXa 
dyadd Tt? KeKrrjTat Bward p.}] p,6vov avTov e')(€iv, 
dX\d Kal dXXoi<; peraSiBovar Kal tov pev peraBi- 
BovTa ft)9 aKpoTaTOv ')(^pr) Tipav, top S' av pr) 
Bvvdpevov edekovTa Be iav Bevrepov, tov Be (pOo- 
vovvTa Kal eKovTa prjBevl koivwvov Bid <piXia<i 
731 yiyvopevov dyaOSiv tivcov avTov p.ev yjreyecv, to Be 
KTTJpa prjBev pdXXov Bid tov K€KTr]p,evov dTipd^eiv, 
dXXd KTaadai KaTa Bvvapiv. (f)iXov€iK€iTO) Be 
■qplv 7rd<; 'irp6<! dpeTrjv d(f)06v(o<;. 6 pev ydp toiov- 

» re Hermann : ye MSS. " <i> I add. 

» Cp. 663 A, 829 A. 
334 



LAWS, BOOK V 

true man so long as possible. He is a trusty man ; 
but untrustworthy is the man who loves the volun- 
tary lie ; and senseless is the man who loves the 
involuntary lie ; and neither of these two is to be 
envied. For everyone that is either faithless or 
foolish is friendless ; and since, as time goes on, he 
is found out, he is making for himself, in his woeful 
old-age, at life's close, a complete solitude, wherein 
his life becomes almost equally desolate whether his 
companions and children are living or dead. He that 
does no wrong is indeed a man worthy of honour ; 
but worthy of twice as much honour as he, and more, 
is the man who, in addition, consents not to wrong- 
doers when they do wrong ;^ for while the former 
counts as one man, the latter counts as many, in that 
he informs the magistrates of the wrongdoing of the 
rest. And he that assists the magistrates in punish- 
ing, to the best of his power, — let him be publicly 
proclaimed to be the Great Man of the State and 
perfect, the winner of the prize for excellence. 

Upon temperance and upon wisdom one should 
bestow the same praise, and upon all the other 
goods which he who possesses them can not only 
keep himself, but can share also with others. He 
that thus shares these should be honoured as highest 
in merit ; and lie that would fain share them but 
cannot, as second in merit ; while if a man is jealous 
and unwilling to share any good things with anyone 
in a friendly spirit, then the man himself must be 
blamed, but his possession must not be disesteemed 
any the more because of its possessor, — rather one 
should strive to gain it with all one's might. Let 
every one of us be ambitious to gain excellence, but 
without jealousy. For a man of this character en- 

335 



PLATO 

TO? Ta<j TToXet? av^ei, dfiiWaofievo^ fiev aino^, tou? 
aXKov<i he ov koXovcov 8ia^o\ai<i' 6 Be <f)Oov€po<; 
rfi Tcov aW(ov Bia^oXfj Selv ol6fievo<i vTrepex^i'V 
atiTO? T€ rJTTOV crvvTeivei irpo'i aperrjv rrjv dXrjOrj, 
TOv<i re dvdap,iXX.o}/xevov<; et9 ddvfjLiav KaOLcrTrjcri 
Tft) aSt«&)9 yjreyecrOai, koI Bid ravra d'yvp.vaarov 

B rr)v TToXiv oXtjv et9 afiiXXav dperrj^ ttoimv crp,iKpo- 
repav avrrjv 7rpo9 evBo^i'av to eavrou fiepo<; d-rrep- 
yd^€Tai. OupoeiBr] p,ev Br) 'X^pr} irdvra dvBpa 
elvai, irpdov Be <b9 otc p,dXi(TTa. rd yap twv 
dXX(i)v ^aXcTTa Kal Bvaiaja rj koI to irapdirav 
dviaTa dBtK^fiUTa ovk eaTiv dXXai<; €/c(f)V<yeiv rj 
p.a^oP'evov koI dfivvofievov vi/cwvTa kuI tw p^rjBev 
dvievai KoXd^ovTa, tovto Be dvev dvp,ov yevvaiov 

"^v-^q irdaa dBvvaro^ Bpav. Ta S' av twv oaoi 
dBtKovai p>ev, Iutu Be, yiyvcocrKeiv xph itpSiTOv 
fiev oTi 7ra9 o dBiKO<; ou;^ eKcov dBcKO<;. tmv yap 
p,eyiaT(i)V kukcov ovBel<; ovBapov ovBev €kq)v Ke- 
KTTJTO dv TTore, TToXv S' rjKLCTTa ev toI<; twv eavTOv 
Tt/if&)TaT0t9' '^v')(r} S', &)9 eliropev, dXijdeia y earl 
irdcn TtpidiTaTov' ev ovv tm TipicoTaTO) to fx,€- 
yiarov kukov ovBe\<i e/cwv firj iroTe Xd^rj Kal ^fj Bid 

D ^Lov K€KTri/iievo^ avTO, dXXd €Xe€iv6<i p,ev Travrco^ 
o ye dBiKO<i KaX o rd Kaxd e^coy, eXeelv Be tov jnev 
ld(xip,a e')(pvTa €y)^top€i Kal dveipyovTa tov dvp,ov 
Trpavveiv Kal p,rj dKpa')(oXovvTa yvvaiKeiQ)<; iriKpai- 
v6p,evov BiaTeXeiv, toJ S* aKpaTw^i Kal aTrapapvOrj- 
TO)? irXiipiJieXel Kal KaKM ecf)ievai Bel rrjv opy/]v' 

1 Cp. Hep. 375 B ff.. 410 C fif. 
336 



LAWS, BOOK V 

larges a State^ since he strives hard himself aud does 
not thwart the others by calumny; but the jealous 
man, thinking that calumny of others is the best 
way to secure his own superiority, makes less effort 
himself to win true excellence, and disheartens his 
rivals by getting them unjustly blamed ; whereby he 
causes the whole State to be ill-trained for com- 
peting in excellence, and renders it, for his part, 
less large in fair repute. Every man ought to be at 
once passionate and gentle in the highest degree.^ 
For, on the one hand, it is impossible to escape from 
other men's wrongdoings, when they are cruel and 
hard to remedy, or even wholly irremediable, other- 
wise than by victorious fighting and self-defence, 
and by punishing most rigorously ; and this no soul 
can achieve without noble passion. But, on the 
other hand, when men commit wrongs which are 
remediable, one should, in the first place, recognize 
that every wrongdoer is a wrongdoer involuntarily ; * 
for no one anywhere would ever voluntarily acquire 
any of the greatest evils, least of all in his own most 
precious possessions. And most precious in very 
truth to every man is, as we have said, the soul. No 
one, therefore, will voluntarily admit into this most 
precious thing the greatest evil and live possessing 
it all his life long. Now while in general the wrong- 
doer and he that has these evils are to be jjitied, it 
is permissible to show pity to the man that has evils 
that are remediable, and to abate one's passion and 
treat him gently, and not to keep on raging like a 
scolding wife ; but in dealing with the man who is 
totally and obstinately perverse and wicked one must 
give free course to wrath. Wherefore we affirm 

* Cp. 860 C ffl ; 863 B flf. ; Prolog. 345 D ; Tim. 86 D. 

337 



PLATO 

Bio Btj ffv/xoeiBrj rrpeTreiv koX irpaov (^afxev eKaa- 
T0T6 {elvai Belv'\ ^ top a<yad6v. 

UdvTfov Se /jbiytcTTOv kukcov dvOpcoTroi^ rot? 
TToXXot? €fj,(f)VTov iv Tal<i yjrvxal^ iariv, ov irat 
kavTW avyyvdiixriv e'X^cov airocpvyrjv ovSefiCav firj'^^^a- 
E vdrar tovto 8' ecmv o Xeyovcriv &>? ^tXo? avra> 
Tra? avdpwTTo^ (pvaei t' ccttI koI 6pd(o<i e^et to 
Beiv eivai toiovtov. to Se aXrideia ye TrdvToyv 
iifjLaprrjfidTtov Sia ttjv (j^ohpa eavTOV <^i\iav 
aXriov eKatntp yiyverai eKciaTOTe' rv(^\oinai 
yap Trepl to (f)i\ovfi€vov 6 (f)t\ci)v, ware to. Sixaia 
KoX TO. dyaOa Kal to, Ka\a KaKCo<i Kpivei, to avTOv 
732 irpo rov dXrjdov^ del rtfiav Selv rjyov/xevo<i' ovre 
yap eavTov cure ra eavTOV ^PV "^^v ye fxeyav 
avhpa iaofiepov arepyeiv, dWa to. hiKaia, idv 
re Trap* avrat idv re Trap* aWw fidWov irpaTTo- 
fxeva rvyxdvtj. ex ravTOv 8e dfiapT'^fiaTO^ tovtov 
Kal TO Trjv djxaOiav rrjv Trap avrw Soxeiv (T0<f)[av 
ilvai yeyove ttcktiv odev ovk elBore^, &»? l7ro9 
elfrelv, ouSev olop-eda ra irdvTa elSevac, ovk eiri- 
T/oevroi/Te? he aWot? a fit] iiriaTdfieda Trpdrrecv, 
B dvayKa^o/xeOa dfiapTaveiv avrol TTpdrrovre^. 8i6 
irdvTa dvOpwiTov ')(^pr) ^evyeiv to ar^oSpa (f>i\etv 
avrov, rop S' eavTov jSeXTvo) StcoKeiv dei,^ p,7)8e/xiav 
ala-)(vvr]v iirl rw toiouto) irpoadev Troiovfieuov. 
' A 8e a/niKporepa p.ev tovtcov Kal Xeyop,eva ttoX- 

* [fjvai Bf~Lv] I bracket (J. B. Mayor bracketed ehai, 
Stephens itiv). 
2 Ae/ Stobaeus : 5*? MSS. 



LAWS, BOOK V 

that it behoves the good man to be always at once 
passionate and gentle. 

There is an evil, great above all others, which 
most men have, implanted in their souls, and which 
each one of them excuses in himself and makes 
no effort to avoid. It is the evil indicated in the 
saying that every man is by nature a lover of 
self, and that it is right that he should be such.^ 
But the truth is that the cause of all sins in every 
case lies in the person's excessive love of self. For 
the lover is blind in his view of the object loved, so 
that he is a bad judge ^ of things just and good and 
noble, in that he deems himself bound always to 
value what is his own more than what is true ; for 
the man who is to attain the title of " Great " must 
be devoted neither to himself nor to his own belong- 
ings, but to things just, whether they happen to be 
actions of his own or rather those of another man. 
And it is from this same sin that every man has 
derived the further notion that his own folly is 
wisdom ; whence it comes about that though we 
know practically nothing, we fancy that we know 
everything; and since we will not entrust to others 
the doing of things we do not understand, we 
necessarily go wrong in doing them ourselves. 
Wherefore every man must shun excessive self-love, 
and ever follow after him that is better than himself, 
allowing no shame to prevent him from so doing. 

Precepts that are less important than these and 

1 Cp. Eur. Frag. 460: 

iKflvo yap ti-rovff oxfp irdvTfs Pporot' 
<pt\iiv iiA\iffT* ffiavrhy ovk alffx^vofjuu. 
Ar. Rhet. 1371'' 19; Pol. 1263»> 2. 
* Cp. Rep. 474 D, E. 

339 



PLATO 

\dKi<; ecTTi, y^prjaLixa he tovtwv oy% ^ttop, y^prj 
TiJyeiv kavTov dvafj.i/jLv/]aKOVTa' Mcrvep '^ap TLvo<i 
diroppeovro'i del hel Tovvavrlov iirippelv, dvdfivr]- 
at<; S" iarlv eirLpporj <^povi](J€(o<; diTo\€LTrov(Tri<i. 

C hio 8rj yeXcoToov re etpyeaOac ')(pr] tmv e^aiaicoi 
Kal BaKpvcov, irapayyeWeiv Be ttuvtI irdvr^ dvSpa 
Kol o\i)v <7r6\iv> ^ 7r€pi')(dpeiav irdaav diro- 
KpvTTTOfievov Kal 7repia>8uviap eva-XTjixovetv ireipd- 
adai, Kurd re evTrpayia'; laTajxevov tov 8aL/xovo<i 
eKuarov Kal Kar drv)(^La<i ^ [olou Tryoo? v\lr7]\d Kal 
dvdvTTj Saifiovcov avdicnaiMevcov rial it pd^e<Tiv\,^ 
iXTTL^ecv S' del roU y dyadolcn rov Oeov a 
Scopeirai, irovcov fiev eirnrLirrovrwv dvri /xei^ovcov 

D iXdrrov<; TTOLrjcreiv rSiv t' av vvv jrapovrcov cttI to 
^eXriov fxera^o\d<;, rrepl he rd dyaOd rd evavria 
rovrwv del irdvr avrol<i TrapayevrjcreaOat, fier 
dya6rj<i rv^rj<i. ravrai<i hr) rat? iXrriaLV eKaarov 
XPV ^W ^^^ Tat? iiTTop^vrjCTeaL Trdvrcov r(ov roiov- 
rcov, firjhep ^eihojxevov, dX>C del Kara re iraihid'i 
Kal (TTTOuSa? dva/j,tfj.V7]a Kovra erepov re kul eavrov 
aa(f>a><;. 

NOi/ ovv hrj rrepl fiev emrrjhev p^drtov , ola xph 

E eTTirTjheveiv, koI irepl avrov eKaarov, ttoIov riva 
')(^peoov etvai, XeXeKrai (T)(^ehbv oaa Oeld eari. ra 
h' dvOputiriva vvv rjfiiv ovk eipr}rai, het he' dv- 
OpcoTTOL^ yap hiaXeyofieda, dXX ov deoif. ecrn 
hr) <f)vaei dvOpcoireiov fidXiara rjhoval Kal Xvirai 
Kal €7n6v/j.Lai, e^ wv dvdyKij to Ovrjrbv irdv ^a)OV 

^ ^woMvy added by Bad ham. 
* /cot' arvxias Badham, Schanz : koto rvxas MSS. 
' [oTov . , . irpi^fffiv] bracketed by Schanz, after Zeller. 
The clause is awkward both in sense and in construction 

340 



LAWS, BOOK V 

oftentimes repeated — but no less profitable — a man 
should repeat to himself by way of reminder; for 
where there is a constant efflux, there must also be 
a corresponding influx, and when wisdom flows away, 
the proper influx consists in recollection ; ^ wherefore 
men must be restrained from untimely laughter and 
tears,2 and every individual, as well as the whole 
State, must charge every man to try to conceal all 
show of extreme joy or sorrow, and to behave him- 
self seemly, alike in good fortune and in evil, accord- 
ing as each man's Genius ' ranges itself, — hoping 
always that God will diminish the troubles that fall 
upon tlieni by the blessings which he bestows, and 
will change for the better the present evils ; and as 
to their blessings, hoping that they, contrariwise, 
will, with the help of good fortune, be increased. 
In these hopes, and in the recollections of all these 
truths, it behoves every man to live, sparing no pains, 
but constantly recalling them clearly to the recol- 
lection both of himself and of his neighbour, alike 
when at work and when at play. 

Thus, as regards the right character of institutions 
and the right character of individuals, we have now 
laid down practically all the rules that are of divine 
sanction. Those that are of human origin we have 
not stated as yet, but state them we must ; for our 
converse is with men, not gods. Pleasures, pains and 
desires are by nature especially human ; and from 
these, of necessity, every mortal creature is, so to 

1 Cp. PhiUb. 33 E CF. 

* Cp. Rep. 388Ef.. 606Cf. 

* i.e. divine controlling force, or destiny. 

("when daemons oppose certain actions as though facing 
things high and steep "). 

34' 



PLATO 

are-)(yS}<; olov i^TjpTTjadaL re koI iKKpefXiifxevoi^ eluai 
anrov8al<; Tai<; /j,€y{,aTai<;. Bel St) rov KoXXiaTov 
0LOV eTTaivelv, /nr) fxovov on tw (T)(T]/j,aTi Kparel 
733 Trpo? evho^iav, aWa koL o)?, civ ti<; ideXr] yeveaSai 
Kol fir) vio^ o)V (f)V'ya<; air avTov yevrjTai, Kparel 
fcal TOUTft) Trdvre^ ^rjTovfiev, too 'x^atpeiv TrXeioo, 
iXaTTCo Se Xvireladai irapa rov ^iov airavra, <09 
Be earai tovto cra^h, av yevi]Tat ti<; 6pdo)<i, kroi- 
/xa)<i Koi a-(f>6Bpa (pavijaeTai. rj Be opdorr]^ rU ; 
TOVTO 7]Br) Trapa tov \6yov ')(^prj Xafi^civovTa 
aKorrelv etre ovt(o<; rjfilv Kara (pvaiv 7re(f)VKev eiTe 
aXXfw? irapa (^vcriv, ^iov ■)(pr) Trapa ^iov rjBlcD 
KOt XvirripoTepov a)Be a-Koirelv. rjBovyjv 0ovX6fie6a 
B Tjulv elvat, XvTrrjv Be ov6* alpovfjieda ovre ^ovXo- 
fxeda, TO Be fMrjBeTepov dvTt fxev r)Bovr}<; ov fiovXo- 
fieda, XvTrrj<i Be aXXaTTeaOai ^ovX6/jt,eda' XvTrrjv 
Be eXaTTW fiera fxet^ovo'i rjBovrj<; ^ovXofieOa, 
TjBovrjv Be eXaTTco ywera fieii^ovo<i Xv'rrrj<i ov fiovXo- 
p.eda, tcra S" dvTC tauiv eKarepa tovtwv ov-)(^ o)? 
/SovXofieda e^oifiev av Biaaa^elv. TavTa Be 
TrdvTa icrrl TrXrjOec Kal fieyedei Kal aipoBporrjaiv 
laoTrjai re Kal ocra evavTia ecrrt tracn toI^ 
T0L0VT0L<i, Trpo<i ^ovXrjaiv BiacpepovTa re Kal /jbrjBev 
Bta^epovTa 7rp6<{ aipecriv eKacrTcov. ovtco Bt] 
TovTccv i^ dvdyK7j<; BiaKeKocrfirjfjievcov, ev a> fxev 
^LM evecTTi TToWa eKdrepa Kal /xeydXa Kal cr(f)0- 
Bpd, vTrep^dXXei Be ra t5)v rjBovoiv, ^ovXa/iieOa, 
ev M Be T^ evavTia, ov ^ovXaixeda' Kal av ev w 
oXlya eKdrepa Kal a/xCKpa Kal r/pe/jiala, virep^dX- 
Xei Be TO, XvTrrjpd, ov ^ovX6p.e6a, ev o) Bk 
jdvdvria, ^ovXofxeda' ev m S' av fii(p iaop- 

34? 



LAWS, BOOK V 

say, suspended and dependent by the strongest cords 
of influence. Thus one should commend the 
noblest life, not merely because it is of superior 
fashion in respect of fair repute, but also because, if 
a man consents to taste it and not shun it in his 
youth, it is superior likewise in that which all men 
covet, — an excess, namely, of joy and a deficiency of 
pain throughout the whole of life. That this will 
clearly be the result, if a man tastes of it rightly, will 
at once be fully evident. But wherein does this 
" rightness " consist ? That is the question which 
we must now, under the instruction of our Argument, 
consider ; comparing the more pleasant life with the 
more painful, we must in this wise consider whether 
this mode is natural to us, and that other mode 
unnatural. We desire that pleasure should be ours, 
but pain we neither choose nor desire ; and the 
neutral state we do not desire in place of pleasure, 
but we do desire it in exchange for pain ; and we 
desire less pain with more pleasure, but we do not 
desire less pleasure with more pain ; and when the 
two are evenly balanced, we are unable to state any 
clear preference. Now all these states — in their 
number, quantity, intensity, equality, and in the 
opposites thereof — have, or have not, influence on 
desire, to govern its choice of each. So these thuigs 
being thus ordered of necessity, we desire that mode 
of life in which the feelings are many, great, and 
intense, with those of pleasure predominating, but 
we do not desire the life in which the feelings of 
pain predominate ; and contrariwise, we do not 
desire the life in which the feelings are few, small, 
and gentle, if the painful predominate, but if the 
pleasurable predominate, we do desire it. Further, 

343 



PLATO 

poTTel, Kaddtrep ev Toi<t irpoadev, hel hiavoel- 
adai' TOP laoppoTTOv /3tov, &)? twv fiev virep^aX- 

D \ovTa ^ TO) (filXfp i)p,tv ^ovXopeOa, roiv 8' av rot? 
i')(6pol<i 01) ^ovXopeda. Trdvra^ Brj Set Scavoel- 
adau TOv<i ^lov<; rjpwv cu? ev tovtoi^ ivSeSep^voi 
7r€(f)v/caa'i, koX Set Siaipeiadai ^ iroiov^ (})va€i 
^ovXopeOa' el he ri irapa ravra dpa (f>ap,ev 
^ovXeaOai, Bid riva dyvotav kuI direipiav rwv 
ovTCDv ^icov avrd Xeyopev. 

T/i/e? Sr) Kal iroaoi elaX ^ioi, cop nrepi Set 
irpoeXopevov to jBovXrjTov re koI eKOvcriov d^ov- 
Xi^rov T€ Kal aKovalov,^ iBiov r del * vopov eavTO) 

E ra^dpuevov, to (pCXov dp,a Kal r)8v Kal dptarov re 
Kal KdXXicTTOv eXopevov ^fjv oxj olov t' eVrti' 
dvOptoTTOv paKapidorara ; Xeycopep Brj a-ax^pova 
^iov eva elvat Kal (f>p6vtp,oi' eva Kal eva rov 
dvSpeiov, Kal top vyieivov ^iov eva ra^copsSa' 
Kul TovToi^ ovai TCTTapaiv evavTtov<; dXXov<; 
reTTapas, d<^pova, SetXov, oKoXaarov, voctcoBtj. 
aot}(f)pova pev ovv ^lov 6 yiyvcoaKOiv Orjaei irpdov 
734 eVt Trdvra Kal rjpep,aia<i pev \u7ra?, r]pep,aia<i Be 
rjBovd^, paXaKd<i Be eTridupLa^ Kal e/swra? ovk 
eppavel<i Trape-x^opevov dKoXacrrov Be o^vv irrl 
"Trdvra Kal a<f)oBpd<i pev Xv7ra<;, (T(f>oBpd^ Be ^Bovdif, 
(Twrovovi Be Kal ola-rpooBei^ eiridvpia<i [re] ^ koL 
epcora^ o)? olov t' €ppaveardrov<i irapexopevov 
vrrep^aXXov(Ta<; Be ev pev rep adx^povi 0lq) rd<; 
r]Bovd<i rcov d')^dr]B6vo}V, ev Be rip aKoXdarw rd<i 

* i^irep^aWoi'To Ritter : inrtpBaWivTdiv ^\Si^, 

* ^laipfladai England : SiavoelaOai MSS. 

* a0OLj\^Tov . . . aKOVfflou : a.&oi\t)Tov . . . aKOvffiov MSS. 

* Xhi6v t' a.i\ : lb6vra (Is MSS. : 'ihi6v riv' els Badham. 

344 



LAWS, BOOK V 

we must regard the life in which there is an equal 
balance of pleasure and pain as we previously 
regarded the neutral state : we desire the balanced 
life in so far as it exceeds the painful life in point of 
what we like, but we do not desire it in so far 
as it exceeds the pleasant lives in point of the 
things we dislike. The lives of us men must all 
be regarded as naturally bound up in these feelings, 
and what kinds of lives we naturally desire is what 
we must distinguish ; but if we assert that we desire 
anything else, we only say so through ignorance 
and inexperience of the lives as they really are. 

What, then, and how many are the lives in 
which a man — when he has chosen the desirable and 
voluntary in preference to the undesirable and the 
involuntar)', and has made it into a private law for 
himself, by choosing what is at once both congenial 
and pleasant and most good and noble — may live as 
happily as man can ? Let us pronounce that one of 
them is the temperate life, one the wise, one the 
brave, and let us class t!>e healthy life as one; and 
to these let us oppose four others — the foolish, the 
cowardly, the licentious, and the diseased. He 
that knows the temperate life will set it down as 
gentle in all respects, affording mild pleasures and 
mild pains, moderate appetites and desires void of 
frenzy ; but the licentious lite he will set down as 
violent in all directions, affording both pains and 
pleasures that are extreme, appetites that are 
intense and maddening, and desires the most 
frenzied possible ; and whereas in the temperate life 
the pleasures outweigh the pains, in the licentious 

* [tc] bracketed by England. 

345 



PLATO 

XvTra<; tcov rjSovtov fieyiOei koX TrXrjOeb koI itvkvo- 
TTjaiv. oOev 6 fiev rjhiwv rjiuv tcov ^ia>v, 6 8e 
\v7rr)p6r€po<; i^ dvdyKrj^ crv/x^aivei Kara (f>vatv 

B yiyveadai, Kal rov ye ^ovXofxevov rjSewi ^fjv ovkstl 
TrapeiKet eKovra ye dKoXdaro)^ ^fjv, d\X' ■IjSr) 
Br]\ov ft)?, 61 TO vvv Xeyofievov opOov, Tra? e'f 
dvdyKT)^ aKciiv earrlv dKoXaaro^' rj yap Si dfia- 
diav rj Sl dKpdreiav rj Si* dix^orepa rov aaxfypo- 
velv ivherj<i wv ^fj 6 Tra? dv6 pcoTrivof; 6)(Xo<;. ravrd 
he Trepl j'OcrwSoi'? re Koi vyiecvov /Stou SiavoTjreov, 
ft)? e^ovai p,ev -^Sovaf; Kal Xv7ra<;, vTrepBdXXovai 

C 8e r^hoval fiev Xvirw; ev iiyieia, Xvirai Se 'q8ovd<i ev 
vocroi'i. r]p,iv Be rj ^ovXt}(tl^ t?}? alpecrea)^ twv 
jBicov ovx l-vci TO Xvrrrjpov vTrep^dXXij' oirov 5' 
vTrep^dXXerai, tovtov rov ^iov r}8ico KCKpLKap^ev. 
6 8rj (Toxppeov rov aKoXdcrrov Kal o (f}povifio<; rov 
d(f>povo<;, (f>aip,ev dv, Kal 6 rrj^ dvhpia<; rov ri]<; 
8eiXla<i eXdrrova Kal apiKporepa Kal p/xvorepa 
'e)(o)v dp(f)6repa, rfj roiv rjSovcov eKarepo<; eKdrepov 
virep^dXXwv, rfj t^? Xv7n]<; eKeivwv virep^aXXov- 

D rcov avrom, 6 fiev dvBp€2o<i rov BeiXov, 6 8e 
<^p6vipL0<i rov d^pova, viKcoaiv, Sxrre 'qhiov^i elvai 
rou<; ^L0v<; rSyv ^icov, ad)(f)pova Kal avBpeiov Kal 
^povipov Kal vyieivbv BeiXov Kai a(f)povo<i Kal 
dKoXdarov Kal vocrcoBov?, Kal ^vXXij^Brjv rov 
dperrj'i e^op-evov Kara awpa rj Kal Kara yfrv^V^ 
rov rTJ<; po'ydrjpCa'i e^op,evov ^iov rjBLco re elvai 
Kal Tot? dXXoL<i virepe')(eLV eK rrepirrov KaXXec Kal 
opOorrjri Kal dperjj Kal evBo^la, ware rov e^ovra 
dvrov i^fjv evBaipovearepov direpydl^eadai rov 

E evavriov ru> rravrl Kal oXw. 

Kat TO p.ev irpooiptov roiv v6p,wv evravdol 
346 



LAWS, BOOK V 

life the p>ains exceed the pleasures in extent, number, 
and frequency. Whence it necessarily results that 
the one life must be naturally more pleasant, the 
other more painful to us ; and it is no longer possible 
for the man who desires a pleasant life voluntarily to 
live a licentious life, but it is clear by now (if our 
argument is right) that no man can possibly be 
licentious voluntarily: it is owing to ignorance or 
incontinence, or both, that the great bulk of man- 
kind live lives lacking in temperance. Similarly 
with regard to the diseased life and the healthy life, 
one must observe that while both have pleasures and 
pains, the pleasures exceed the pains in health, but 
the pains the pleasures in disease. Our desire in the 
choice of lives is not that pain should be in excess, 
but the life we havejudged the more pleasant is that 
in which pain is exceeded by pleasure. We will assert, 
then, that since the temperate life has its feelings 
smaller, fewer and lighter than the licentious life, 
and the wise life than the foolish, and the brave 
than the cowardly, and since the one life is superior 
to the other in pleasure, but inferior in pain, the 
brave life is victorious over the cowardly and the 
wise over the foolish ; consequently the one set of 
lives ranks as more pleasant than the other : the 
temperate, brave, wise, and healthy lives are more 
pleasant than the cowardly, foolish, licentious and 
diseased. To sum up, the life of bodily and spiritual 
virtue, as compared with that of vice, is not only 
more pleasant, but also exceeds greatly in nobility, 
rectitude, virtue and good fame, so that it causes the 
man who lives it to live ever so much more happily 
than he who lives the opposite life. 

Thus far we have stated the prelude of our lawsj 

347 



PLATO 

X£-)(^d€V t5)v Xoycov reXo<i i^CTfo, /xera Be to 
TTpooifiiov dvajKaiov ttov vojxov eTTtadai, fidWov 
Se TO ye a\.r]Oe<; [yo/xou?] ^ TToA-tTeia? v'JToypa(f>7]v.^ 
KaduTrep ovv hrj riva ^uvv(f)rjv rj xal nXey/M aXX' 
oTiovv, ouK eK rS)v avroov oilov t' ecnl rrjv re 
e4>u(f)7]L' Kai rov aT^fiova a-nepyal^ecTOai, 8ia<f)epeiv 
S' avayKOLOV to tS)V (TTtj/movcov 7r/?o9 aperrjv yevo<i' 
lax^pov re yap Kai riva ^e^aioTrjra ev rot? 
735 rpoiroi^ eiX'r](f>6<;, to he /xaXaKcoTcpov Kai eTTceiKeia 
Ttvl hiKaia ')(^p(o/u,evov' 66 ev 8r] tov<; p.eydXa'i 
ap-)(^d<i ev Tai9 TroXecriv dp^ovTa<: Bel BiaKplveaOai 
Tiva TpoTTOV TavTT) Kai Tov<i (TixiKpa<i ^ iracBeia 
^aaaviaOevTa^ eKaaTOTe KaTO, Xoyov earov yap 
Br) Bvo iroXiTeia'i e'iBrj, to fiev dp'x^oiyv KaTacrTdaei<i 
eKaaToi^, to Be vofioi Tat? dp)(^al<; diroBoOevTe';. 
To Be irpo TOVTwv dirdvTcov Bel BiavoelcrOai 

B TO, ToidBe. Tracrav dyeXrjv Trotfirjv Kai ^ovk6Xo<; 
Tpo<pev<; T€ iTTTTCOv, Kai oaa dXXa ToiavTa, irapa- 
Xa^oiv ovK dXXu><i fit] ttotc e'iri')(^eiprjarr} Oepa- 
ireveiv rj TrpcoTov fiev tov eKacTTr] irpoarjKOVTa 
Ka6apfj,6v Kaddprj Ty ^vvoiKijcrei, BiaXe^a^; Be Ta tg 
vyirj Kai to, fir) Kai Ta yevvala Kai dyevi-f) Ta )xev 
dTro7rep.yjrr} 7r/)o? dXXa<i Tivd<; dyeXa'^, tcl Be Oepa- 
TTevarj, Biavoovpevo'i &)? p,dTaio^ dv o irovo^ eir) 
Kai dvrjvvT0<; irepl T6 acojj,a Kai -v/ru^^a?, a? <^vcn<; 

C Kai irovrjpd Tpo^r) Bi€<f>6apKvla TrpoaaTToXXvai to 

1 [vofj-ovs] bracketed by W.-Mollendorflf. 

• viroypa<pi\v W.-Mollendorff : v-n-oyjacbfiv MSS. 

• fffiiKpas Biicheler, Schanz : o-fxiKp^ MSS. 

* A plaj' on the double sense of v6/aos — " law " and musical 
"nome " or "tune." 

34^ 



LAWS, BOOK V 

and here let that statement end : after the prelude 
must necessarily follow the tune,^ — or rather, to be 
strictly accurate, a sketch of the State-organisation. 
Now, just as in the case of a piece of webbing, or 
any other woven article, it is not possible to make 
lK)th warp and woof of the same materials, but the 
stuff of the warp must be of better quality — for it is 
strong and is made firm by its twistings, whereas the 
woot is softer and shows a due degree of flexibility ^ — 
from this we may see that in some such way we must 
mark out those who are to hold high offices in the 
State and those who are to hold low offices,^ after 
applying in each case an adequate educational test. 
For of State organisation there are two divisions, of 
which the one is the appointment of individuals to 
office, tlie other the assignment of laws to the 
offices. 

But, in truth, before we deal with all these matters 
we must observe the following. In dealing with a 
flock of any kind, the shepherd or cowherd, or the 
keeper of horses or any such animals, will never 
attempt to look after it until he has first applied to 
each group of animals the appropriate purge — which 
is to separate the sound from the unsound, and the 
well-bred from the ill-bred,* and to send off" the 
latter to other herds, while keeping the former under 
his own care ; for he reckons that his labour would 
be fruitless and unending if it were spent on bodies 
and souls which nature and ill-nurture have combined 
to ruin, and which themselves bring ruin on a stock 

• In weaving the ancients used an upright loom, in which 
the fixed, vertical threads of the "warp" were of coarser 
fihre than the transverse threads of the " woof." 

» Cp. Ar. Pol 1265" 18 flF. « Cp. Rep. 410 A. 

349 



PLATO 

rSiv vyi&v Kol aKjjpdrcov rjOwv re xal aco/idrcov 
yevo^ ev eKaaTOt^ tmv KTrjixdrcov, dv Ti<i rd 
v7rdp')(0VTa firj BiaKadaLprjTai. rd /lev Stj twv 
aWcov ^cofov eXdrrwv re aTrovBrj kuI TrapaBeiy- 
fiaTO<i ei'CKa fiovov d^ia irapaOeaOai rw Xoyw, 
ra oe twv dvOpditrayv (T7rov8r)<i rrj<i fxeyicrrri<i tg) re 
vofioOerrj Biepevvdadai kol (ppd^eip to TrpoarJKov 
eKdaroL<i KaOap/xov re rripc Kal ^v/xiraacov roiv 
dWwv irpd^ecov. avjiKa yap to irepX KuOap- 

D fiov<; TToXeco'i wS' e^ov dv elr)' iroWoiv ovcrwv jcov 
hiaKaddpaewv ai fiev pdov^ eiaiv, al Se %aXe- 
•TTctiTepai, Kal ra? /xev rvpavvo<; jxev wv Kal vo/xo- 
6eTT)<i 6 avr6<;, ocrai ^^aXeTrat t' eial Kal dpiarai, 
SvvatT dv Kadrjpar vop,oB€Tr]<; Be dvev rvpavviho^i 
Kadicrrd^ TroXneiav Kaivrjv Kal v6p.ou<;, el Kal 
Tov TrpaoTaTov tmv Kadapficov KaOtjpecev, dyam}- 
TG)9 dv Kal TO TOIOVTOV Spd(T€iev. eCTTl S' fiev 
dpiarof dXyeivo<;, Kaddirep oaa twv (^apfiuKcov 

E TOiovrorpoTTa, 6 tt} Blkj] /xerd Tifiwpla^ et9 to 
KoXd^eiv dyoov, ddvaTOV r] <f)vyr)v ttj rificopia to 
Te\o<? eirniOei'i' TOv<i ydp fxeyiaTa e^'r]p.apT'r]KQTa<s, 
dviaTOVi he 6vTa<i, /xeylaTTjv Be ovaav ^Xd^rjv 
TToXeo)?, diraXXaTTeiv elwdev. 6 Be irpaoTepo^ eaTi 
Twv Kadapixoyv 6 ToioaBe ■t^pJiv o<roi Bed rrjv tt}? 
Tpo(f)i]^ uTToplav T0i9 Tjyep-oaiv eVl ra tmv e\ov- 
Twv fiij €XovTe<i t'Tot'/iOf? avTov^ evBeLKvvvTac 
736 TrapeaKevaKore'i eireadai, TOUTOt? co? vocn}p,aTi 
TToXeo)? e/ji7re(f)VK6Ti Bi ev(f)r)p,[a<; d7raXXayr]<; ^ 
ovopM diroLKLav Ti6ep,€vo^, evfievoi)^ on p,dXi(TTa 
€^eTrep,-\jraTO. TravTi fiev ovv vop-oOerovvri tovto 
ap,6i<i ye TTft)? Kar dpxd'i Bpaareov, t)ixlv fxfjv en 
' iiraAAay^s Slepbens : dTroAAovjjf MSS. 

35° 



LAWS, BOOK V 

that is sound and clean both in habit and in body, — 
whatever the class of beast, — unless a thorough 
purge be made in the existing herd. This is a 
matter of minor importance in the case of other 
animals, and deserves mention only by way of illustra- 
tion ; but in the case of man it is of the highest 
importance for the lawgiver to search out and to 
declare what is proper for each class both as regards 
purging out and all other modes of treatment. For 
instance, in respect of civic purgings, this would be 
the way of it. Of the many possible modes of 
purging, some are milder, some more severe ; those 
that are severest and best a lawgiver who was also a 
despot ^ might be able to effect, but a lawgiver with- 
out despotic power might be well content if, in 
establishing a new polity and laws, he could effect 
even the mildest of purgations. The best purge is 
painful, like all medicines of a drastic nature, — the 
purge which hales to punishments by means of justice 
linked with vengeance, crowning the vengeance 
with exile or death : it, as a rule, clears out the 
greatest criminals when they are incurable and 
cause serious damage to the State. A milder form 
of purge is one of the following kind:— when, 
owing to scarcity of food, people are in want, and 
display a readiness to follow their leaders in an 
attack on the property of the wealthy, — then the 
lawgiver, regarding all such as a plague inherent in 
the body politic, ships them abroad as gentlv as 
possible, giving the euphemistic title of " emigration " 
to their evacuation. By some means or other this 
must be done by every legislator at the beginning, 

» Cp. 709 E tt 

351 



PLATO 

Tovrcdv dirovcoTepa ^ ra irepl Tavr icrrl (rv/x/Se- 
^rjKOTa vvv ovre 'yap airoiKiav ovt iKXoyrjv riva 
Kaddpaecof; Bel /ubrj'^avdcrOai 7rpo<; to irapov, olov 

B he TLvcov ^vppeovTcjv €k ttoWcov rd fiev rrijycov 
TO, Se "X^ei/jLdppwv ei? fiiav \ifxvr)v dvayKoiov 
7rpo(Te'X^ovTa<; rov vovv (^vXarreLv oirwi OTt Ka- 
dapdiTarov earai to avppeov vScop, tu fxev 
€^avT\ovvTa<i, tu S' dTro')(eTevovTa<; koX rrapa- 
TpirrovTa^. irovo'i h\ ft)9 eoixe, Kal Kivhvv6<i iaTiv 
iv "rrdarj KaTacrK€vfj iroXiTiKfj' ra 8' iirel'Trep 
\6ya) y ecrrt Ta vvv dX)C ovk epycp irpaTTo/xeva, 
TTGTrepdvda) Te rjfilv rj ^vXXoyr) Kal KaTa vovv 
r] Kadap6Ti]<; avTrj<; eaToy ^vfi^e^ijKvta' tou? yap 

C KaKov<i Tciyv eTTL')(€ipovvTa)v el<i ttjv vvv ttoXiv &)? 
7roXtT€V(TO/j,€VOV<; ^vvievai, Treipa ^ Trdarj Kal iKavm 
y^povm Sta^aaavLcravTe^, 8iaKO)Xvcroi>/j,€v d<piKV€i- 
adai, Tov<i S' dyadov<i 6i9 hvvafxiv evfxeveis tXeco? re 
TT poaaydifieda. 

ToSe Be firj XavOaveTco yiyvofxevov rj/jLd<; ev- 
Tv-^rjfia, oTi KaOdirep eiTrofiev ttjv TOiv 'Yipa- 
K\eiS(t)v diTOLKiav evTV^^eiv, &)? yr]^; Kal 'X^pecov 
aTTOKOTrrj^; Kal vofjLi]<; irepi Betvrjv Kal eTriKLvhwov 
epcv €^€<l>vy€V, r)v vopioOeTeladai dvayKacrdeicrr] 

D TToXei TMV dp^alcov ovtc eav olov re aKivtjTov 
[ovBev] ' OVT av Ktvelv BvvaTov icrri Tiva Tpoirov, 
ev')(r] Be fiovov &)? eVo? elTrelf XeiveTai Kal a/niKpa 
fxeTd^a(7i<i €vXal3r)<i iv ttoXXm xP^^V o-P'tKpbv 

' airovcirepa : aroirwrfpa, MSS. (a«oirc<JTepa Ritter) 

* ir€£p5 Badham, Schanz : irnQoi MSS. 

• [ohSfv'] wanting in MSS. 

' The citizens who are to form the new Magnesian colony 
are to be drawn from various quarters, and thej' must be 

352 



LAWS, BOOK V 

but in our case the task is now even more simple ; 
for we have no need to contrive for the present 
either a form of emigration or any other purgative 
selection ; but just as when there is a confluence of 
floods from many sources — some from springs, some 
from torrents — into a single pool, we have to take 
diligent precautions to ensure that the water may be 
of the utmost possible purity, by drawing it off in 
some cases, and in others by making channels to 
divert its course.^ Yet toil and risk, it would appear, 
are involved in every exercise of statecraft. Since, 
however, our present efforts are verbal rather than 
actual, let us assume that our collection of citizens is 
now completed, and its purity secured to our satisfac- 
tion ; for we shall test thoroughly by every kind of 
test and by length of time the vicious among those 
who attempt to enter our present State as citizens, 
and so prevent their arrival, whereas we shall 
welcome the virtuous with all possible graciousness 
and goodwill. 

And let us not omit to notice this piece of good 
luck — that, just as we said * that the colony of the 
Heraclidae was fortunate in avoiding fierce and 
dangerous strife concerning the distribution of land 
and money and the cancelling of debts (so we are 
similarly lucky) ; for when a State is obliged to 
settle such strife by law, it can neither leave vested 
interests unaltered nor yet can it in any wise alter 
them, and no way is left save what one might term 
that of " pious aspiration " and cautious change, little 
by little, extended over a long f>eriod, and that way 

carefully tested (like streaniB flowing into a reservoir) before 
being admitted. 
* 684 E. 

353 



PLATO 

fiera^i^d^ovaiv, rjSe'^ twv klvovvtwv ael KeKTrj- 
fiivtov fxev avroiv yijv a(f)Oovov virdp')(^ei,v, KCKTrj- 
fxevcov 8e koI ocpeiXera^; avroiv TroXXoy?, edeXovTcov 
re TOVTcov tttj to?? aTropovfiivoc^; 8i' eTrietKeiav 
E KOivoiveiv TO. pev d(f)C€VTa<;, rd he vefiOfi€vov<;, 
dfifj ye TTT) T?}? fieTpioTTjTo^ e'xpfxevov'i kuI ireviav 
rjyovfievov^ elvai purj to rtjv oiiaiav eXuTrio Troietv 
dXXd TO TT]v dTrXrjaTiav irkeia}. awrr^pia^ t€ 
yap dpyrj fieyiaTrj ttoXco)? avrrj yiyveTai, koX 
etrX TavT7)<; olov Kprjirlhoii fiovifMOV eTroiKoSofielv 
Suvarov ovTCva dv vdTepov i7roiKoBop,fj xi? Koap-ov 
iroXiTiKov TTpoarjKovTa ttj ToiavTT) KaraaTaa-er 
737 TavTT)^ Be aaOpd^ ov(rr]<; [tt}? /i,6Ta/Sacr€&)9j ^ ovk 
evTTopo^ rj p^TU tuvtu ttoXltlkt] 7rpd^i<i ovBepid 
yiyvoLT dv iroXei. rjv r)p,el<i p,ev, co? (f)ap,€v, 
eKi^evyopLev 6p.(o<; he elpijaOai ye opdoTepov, el 
Kul p,f) e^e(f>evyop,ev, orrr) ttot dv eiroLovpeda 
avTrj<i Trjv cf)vyr)v. elprjcrdco Sij vvv oti Sid rov 
pLT) (fiiXo^pijpaTelv p-erd 8i,K7}<i, dWrj S" ovk ecrrtv 
out* evpeta ouTe crTevrj t?;? TOiavTij^; p,T})^avrj(; 
Sia<f>vy7]. KaX tovto p.ev olov €pp.a 7ro\e&)9 '^p2v 
Keiadoi Ta vvv dveyKkrjTOVi yap Bel Ta<i ov<Tia<i 
Trpo<; dW^Xov^ KaTaaKevd^eadai dpa)<; ye ttg)?, 
B /) p,r) TTpolevai irpoTepov el<i Tovp^irpocrdev eK0VTa<i ^ 
elvai Trj<; dXX7]<; KaraaKevr}^, ot? r} iraXaia 
eyKXi']fxaTa irpo'i dXXi]Xov<i, [zeal]* 6<T0i<i vov KaX 
apLiKpov p-erfj. ot? Be, cb? rjplv vvv, 6eo<i eBcoKe 

KUlVljv T6 TToXlV OLKi^etV KttX pT] TLVaS C^^ pO-'i 

elvai TTco 7r/0O9 dXXijXov^, Tovrovt e^^^pa? avTol<i 

1 i^Se Bekker, Burnet : ^ 5e MSS., Zur. 
^ [ttjs niTa^aaea>s] bracketed by England. 
' eK6vTas Ast : kK6vTa MSS. 
* [koX] bracketed by Stallb. 

354 



LAWS, BOOK V 

is this: — there must already exist a supply of men to 
effect the change, who themselves, on each occasion, 
possess abundance of land and have many persons 
in their debt, and who are kind enough to wish to 
give a share of these things to those of them who 
are in want, partly by remissions and partly by dis- 
tributions, making a kind of rule of moderation and 
believing that poverty consists, not in decreasing 
one's substance, but in increasing one's greed. For 
this is the main foundation of the security of a State, 
and on this as on a firm keel it is possible to build 
whatever kind of civic organisation may be subse- 
quently built suitable for the arrangement described ; 
but if the foundation be rotten, the subsequent 
political operations will prove by no means easy for 
any State, This difficulty, as we say, we avoid ; it 
is better, however, that we should explain the means 
by which, if we had not actually avoided it, we 
might have found a way of escape. Be it explained, 
then, that that means consists in renouncing avarice 
by the aid of justice, and that there is no way of escape, 
broad or narrow, other than this device. So let this 
stand fixed for us now as a kind of pillar of the State. 
The properties of the citizens must be established 
somehow or other on a basis that is secure from 
intestine disputes ; otherwise, for people who have 
ancient disputes with one another, men will not of 
their own free will proceed any further with political 
construction, if they have a grain of sense.^ But as 
for those to whom — as to us now — God has given 
a new State to found, and one free as yet from 
internal feuds, — that those founders should excite 

* There may be an allusion here to Solon ; the first step in 
his political reforms was a measure for the abolition of debts 
( " Seisachtheia "). 

355 



PLATO 

aiTiov<i yeveadai 8ia rrjv hiavofx-qv t% yr)^ re 
Kat, oiKr)(Teo)v ovk avOpcoirivof av eirj fxera kukt}^ 
Trdarji; dfiaOta. 

C Tt<r ovv 8r) rpoTTO? av eirj tt)? 6pdrj<; Biavofirj^ ; 
rrpcoTov fxev rov avrcov oyKov rov dpi0fiov Bel 
ra^aadai, ttoctov elvat ypecov. fierd Be rovTo 
TTjv htavop,rjv twv TroXtrcov, Ka6^ OTTOcra fiepr) 
7r\i]deL Kul oirrfkiKa SiatpcTeov avTOv<i, dvop,o- 
'KojrjTeov iirl 8e Tavra rrjv re yijv Kal Ta<i 
oi,Ki]cr€i<i on fidXiara taa<i iTrcve/xrjriov. 07/C09 
Si] 7r\7]0ov<; iKav6<; ovk dWa)<; opdo}^ '^iyvoiT av 
\e-)(de\<i 7] irpot rrivyrfv Kal ra^ TOiv irXrjcnoxcopoov 

D 7ro\€i<i, jrjii /Mev, oiroar) ttoctov';^ <TCM)^pova<i 6vra<i 
iKavT) rpe^eiv, irXelovo'i 8' ovBev TrpoaSel, TrXrjOovi 
oe, OTTocroi Tovf 7rpo(T')(^u)pov<i dhiKovvrd^ re avTov<; 
dfivvacrdaL Svvarol Kal yeiToa-iv eavT&v dSiKOV- 
fievoi^ jSorjdrja-aL firj iravrdiracnv d'rropw'i hvvaivr 
av. TavTa S' ISovref rrjv ')((opav Kal rov<; <yeirova<i 
opiovp,eda epym Kal \6yoi<;- vvv 8e a')(rjp,aTO<i 
eveKa Kal vTroypacfirj'i, iva irepaivrjrai, irpo^ rrjv 
vofiodecfiav 6 X.0709 ltq). 

E TlevrdKa [xev ^iXioi ecnaxrav Kal rcTTapaKovTa, 
dpidfJLov Tuio<i eveKa Trpoa^Kovrof, yewp-opoL re kuI 
dp,vvovvT€^ TTj vopfi' yi] 3e Kal olK'^aei<; cocrai/Ttu? to. 
avra peprj 8iavep,'r)6i]TO)V, yevopeva dvijp Kal KXi^pos 
^vvvoprj. 8vo pev Srj pepr) rov iravro^ dpidpov 
TO irpoiTOV veprjdrJTQ), pera Se ravra rpia rov ^ 
avrov' 7re(f)VK€ yap Kal rerTapa Kal irevre Kal 
P'€')(pi ro)V 8eKa i^e^rj^. 8el 8rj irepl dpiOpcov to 



1 TToiTovi England: iriaovs MSS. 

' Tov avTov Stephens, Schanz: rhv avrbv MSS. 



356 



LAWS, BOOK V 

enmity against themselves because of the distribution 
of land and houses would be a piece of folly com- 
bined with utter depravity of which no man could 
be capable. 

What then would be the plan of a right distribu- 
tion ? First, we must fix at the right total the 
number of citizens ; next, we must agree about the 
distribution of them, — into how many sections, and 
each of what size, they are to be divided ; and 
among these sections we must distribute, as equally 
as we can, both the land and the houses. An 
adequate figure for the population could not be 
given without reference to the territory and to the 
neighbouring States. Of land we need as much as 
is capable of supporting so many inhabitants of 
temperate habits, and we need no more ; and as to 
population, we need a number such that they will 
be able to defend themselves against injury from 
adjoining peoples, and capable also of lending 
some aid to their neighbours when injured. These 
matters we shall determine, both verbally and 
actually, when we have inspected the territory and 
its neighbours; but for the present it is only a sketch 
in outline of our legislation that our argument will 
now proceed to complete. 

Let us assume that there are — as a suitable number 
— 5,040 men, to be land-holders and to defend their 
plots;'- and let the land and houses be likewise 
divided into the same number of parts — the man 
and his allotment forming together one division. 
First, let the whole number be divided into two ; 
next into three ; then follow in natural order four 
and five, and so on up to ten. Regarding numbers, 

» Cp. Ar. Pd. 1265» 30 ff. 

357 



PLATO 

7e roaovrov iravra avSpa vofioOerovvra vevoTj- 
738 K€vai, Tt? dpidfiof kuI Troto? irda-ai'i iroXecn 
'X^ptjcrcfKOTaTOi; av eirj. Xeyco/xev Brj top ifKeiaTWi 
Kal e(f)e^i]<i fiaXi(na 8iavo/j,d<; iv aura> KCicTTjfiivov' 
ov fxev 8t] 7ra? et? iravra irdaa^ TOfia^ eiXrj'^^^ev 
6 Se tS)v rcTTapiiKovTa koI TrevTaKia-^cXtcov eU 
re TToXe/xov Kal oaa Kar elprjvrjv [tt/so? diravra 
ra ^v/jL^oXata Kal KotvcovijpaTa],^ elacpopcbv re 
TTcpi Kal 8iapop,(ov, ov TrA-etof? /ita? Seovacov 

B k^rjKovra hvvair dv refivecrOai rop&v, ^u^e^et? 
Be diro p,id<; /ie%/3t rcov heKa. 

TaOra p.ev ovv Btj Kal Kara (T')(oX'qv Sec ^e^alwi 
Xa^elv, 069 dv 6 v6fio<i irpocrTdTrr} Xafi^dvecv e'X^et 
yap ovv ovK dXXw^ rj ravTj], Bei Be avrd prjOfjvat 
TMvB' evcKa KaroiKi^ovTt ttoXiv. out dv Kaivrjv e^ 
dp')(rj<; Tt9 TTOi^ OUT* dv TraXaidv Bie<^BappAvr]v iirc- 
aK€vd^r]Tai, irepl decov ye Kal lepwv, drra re ev rrj 
TToXet, eKaaroL'; IBpvadat Bel Kal covrivcop eirovop.d- 
^eadai dewv rj Baifiovcov, ovBel<i eTrL'^eiprjaeL Kivetv 

C vovv e')(o)v oaa e'/c /^eXifiOJV rj AcoBcovrj'i rj reap "Afi- 
fia)vo<i rj rive^ eTreiaav iraXaiol Xoyoi QirrjBr] 
riva<i ireiaavre^;, (fiacr/xdrcov yevo/x€V(ov rj iTrnrvoia^ 
A,€%^eta779 Oecov, Treia-divref ^ Be 6v(rt,a<i reXe- 
rai<i av/u./j.LKrov<; Karearr^cravro etre avrodev 
eTTC^^coplovt; etr ovv TvpprjvtKd<; eire K.V7rpia<; 
etr dXXodev oOevovv, KaOiepwaav Be to4? 
roiovroi<i X6yoi<; (jiijfia^; re Kal dydX/xara Kal 
ffcopoixi Kal vaov<;, re/j,evr) re rovroav eKdaroi<i 
irefiivicrav rovrcov vo/ioOerrj rb (xp^iKporarov 



^ [iiphs . . . Koivcci'TifiaTa] bracketed by England. 
* irttaeivTit W.-MoUendorff: ttflaavrts MSS. 



358 



LAWS, BOOK V 

every man who is making laws must understand at least 
thus muchj — what number and what kind of number 
will be most useful for all States. Let us choose that 
which contains the most numerous and most con- 
secutive sub-divisions. Number as a whole com- 
prises every division for all purposes; whereas the 
number 5,040, for purposes of war, and in peace for 
all purposes connected with contributions and dis- 
tributions, will admit of division into no more than 
59 sections, these being consecutive from one up to 
ten.i 

These facts about numbers must be grasped firmly 
and with deliberate attention by those who are 
appointed by law to grasp them : they are exactly 
as we have stated them, and the reason for stating 
them when founding a State is this : — in respect of 
gods, and shrines, and the temples which have to 
be set up for the various gods in the State, and the 
gods and daemons they are to be named after, no 
man of sense, — whether he be framing a new State 
or re-forming an old one that has been corrupted, — 
will attempt to alter the advice from Delphi or 
Dodona or Ammon, or that of ancient sayings, what- 
ever form they take — whether derived from visions 
or from some reported inspiration from heaven. By 
this advice they instituted sacrifices combined with 
rites, either of native origin or imported from 
Tuscany or Cyprus or elsewhere : and by means 
of such sayings they sanctified oracles and statues 
and altars and temples, and marked off for each of 
them sacred glebes. Nothing of all these should 

* The number 5,040 is here chosen because, for a number 
of moderate size, it has the greatest possible number of 
di\i8ors (59), including all the digits from 1 to 10. 

359 



PLATO 

1) (iTrdi'TOiv ov^ev KLvr^reov, Tolf Se fiepeatp kKd<TToi<; 
deov rj Saifiova rj kuL riva rjpcoa aTroBoriov, iv 
he rfi TYj^ yj}? Biavofif) Trpcorot^ i^aipera Te/jLevrj 
T€ Kai TTui^ra ra irpoar^Kovra cnrohoreov, 07r&)9 
av ^uWoyoi eKciarcov rtov /xepcov Kara ■)^p6vov'i 
yiyvofievoc tov<; 7rpo(TTa)(^0€VTa<i et<; re ra? ')(^pe'ia<i 
eKdara<; ev/Jidpeiav TrapacrKevd^coai xal <pi\o(f)pov- 
(ovrac re d\X7]\ov<; fierd 9vatS)v kuI ocKeioyvrat 

E Koi yuoypL^coatv, ov fielt^ov ovSev TroXet dyadov, rj 
yvoypL/jLovi avrov<; avroi<; eJvar orrov yap /jltj (/)&)9 
dW7]Xoc<i earlv dWijXcov iv roU rpo-noi'i, dXXd 
(TKorci, ovr av rt/j,r}<; t?}? a^ia? ovr dp')(^Siv ovre 
OLK7](; TTore t/? av t^9 7rpoar]KOvarj<; opOw'i rvy- 
')(^dvoL. Bel hr) irdvra dvSpa ev Trpo? ev rovro 
arrevheiv ev rrdaat^ rroXeacv, orrco'; pbrjre avro<; 
KL^SrjXot TTOre <f>av€trai orwovv, diTXov<i Be Kui 
dXrjdr]^ del, fiijre dXXo<; roiovro<; oiv avrov 
Biairarrjcrei. 
739 H Br) TO fiera rovro <f>opd, KaOdirep Trerrcov 
d(f)^ lepov, T^? r(ov voficov /caracr/cef?;? dyjOr]^ ovaa 
rd')(^ av davfidaai rov uKovovra to nptbrov 
TTOiTjaeiev' ov firjv dXX' dvaXoyi^Ofievo) Kal Treipoy- 
fievo} (pavelrai Bevrepca^ av 7r6Xt<; oiKelaOai rrpo'i 
TO ^eXriarov. rdx*^ B' ovk dv Tt9 irpoaBe^airo 
avT7)v Bid rb p,rj avvrjOes vofioderj] firj rvpavvovvri' 
rb S' earlv 6p06rara, elrrelv fxev rrjv dpiarrjv 
TToXirelai' Kal Bevrepav Kal rpirrjv, Bovvai Be 
elirovra aipeaiv eKdarw rS> rrj<i <TvvoLKr]aea>^ 

B Kvpiw. TTOiSniev Br) Kara rovrov rbv Xoyov Kal 

^ The midflle line on the draiightsboard : to move a piece 
placed on this line was eauivalent.t.o"trvingone'8last chance." 

360 



LAWS, BOOK V 

the lawgiver alter in the slightest degree ; to each 
section he should assign a god or daemon, or at the 
least a hero ; and in the distribution of the land he 
should assign first to these divinities choice domains 
with all that pertains to them, so that, when 
assemblies of each of the sections take place at 
the appointed times, they may provide an ample 
supply of things requisite, and the people may 
fraternize with one another at the sacrifices and gain 
knowledge and intimacy, since nothing is of more 
benefit to the State than this mutual at quaintance ; 
for where men conceal their ways one from another 
in darkness rather than light, there no man will 
ever rightly gain either his due honour or office, or 
the justice that is befitting. Wherefore every man 
in every State must above all things endeavour to 
show himself always true and sincere towards every- 
one, and no humbug, and also to allow himself to be 
imposed upon by no such person. 

The next move in our settling of the laws is one 
that might at first hearing cause surprise because 
of its unusual character — like the move of a draughts- 
player who quits his "sacred line " ; ^ none the 
less, it will be clear to him who reasons it out and 
uses experience that a State will probably have a 
constitution no higher than second in point of 
excellence. Probably one might refuse to accept 
this, owing to unfamiliarity with lawgivers who are 
not also despots : ^ but it is, in fact, the most correct 
plan to describe the best polity, and the second 
best, and the third, and after describing them to 
give the choice to the individual who is charged 
with the founding of the settlement. This plan let 

» Cp. 735 D. 

361 



PLATO 

ra I'vv rjfiei'i, elTT6vre<i dperfj irpcoji^v iroXneiav 
Kol hevrepav Koi rpiTTjv tt)v Se aipeaiv KXeivia 
T€ d7ro8i8a)n6v rd vvv koI et Tt? dX\o<; [ai/] ^ Bij 
TTore ideXrjaetev cttI ttjv twv toiovtiov eKXoyrjv 
iXOoju Kara rov eaurov rpoTrov dirovei^aadat, ro 
<f}LXov avTW TT]<i avTOv 'rrarpiZo^. TrpcoTrj fxev 

TOLVVV 7roA.t9 T€ €(XTl KOl TToXiTfLa Kol VOflOl 

dpiaroi, OTTov to TrdXai Xeyo/xevov dv yiyvrjraL 
C Kara irdaav rr)v iroXiv on, /idXia-Ta' XeyeraL Se 
0)9 ovTQx; earl Koivd rd (fiiXcov. tovt ovv etVe irov 
vvv eaTiv etr earai irore, KOivd<; jxkv yvvalKa'i, 
Koivovf} he elvav TralSa^;, KOivd Se ')(p't]/ui.aTa ^vp,- 
Travra, koX Trda-rj p.rj'^av^ to Xeyop^vov cSiov 
•navTayoQev e« tov ^lov drrav e^rjprjTai, p.ep,ri- 
"X^dvrjTai 8' et? to Zvvarov KaX Ta (fyvcrei iBia KOivd 
d/iifj yi "Trrj yeyovivai, olov ofifiUTa kcu (otu kuI 
')^6ipa<; Koivd fiev opav hoKelv koi dxavetv koI 
D irpaTTetv, eiraivelv re av kuI -xfriyeiv KaS" ev oTt 
fidXicTTa ^vp.'TTavTa^ eirl Tot9 avTol<; ')(aLpovTa<i Kai 
XvTrovp,evov9, /cat kutu hvvafXLV <Ttp,av> ^ oiTive^ 
vo/jboi piav OTt p,dXi(TTa ttoXlv direpyd^ovTaL, 
TovTOiv v-nep^oXfi trpo'; dpeTrjv ovBei^ iroTe opov 
dXXov 0ep.evo^ opdoTspov ov8e /SeXTico drjcreTai. tj 
fiev St) ToiavTi] 7r6Xt9, etVe ttov deoX rj iralSei; Ocmv 
avTTjv ol/covai [7rXeLov<i €v6<;],^ ovtco 8ia^a)VT€<; 
€V(f)paii>6p,€voi KaTOLKovar 8i6 Sr) Trapdhetyp-d ye 
E 7roXiT€La<; ovk dXXrj XPV (fKOirelv, dXX i')(^op,evov<i 
TavTrj<i TTJV OTi pidXicTTa TOiavTrjv ^rjTelv kutu 
hvvap,iv. rjv Be vvv r)p.el<i iircKe'^^^eipijKap.ev, ecrj t€ 

^ [ftr] bracketed by Naber, Schanz. 

■ <Ti^5i'> I add. 

•' [vXuou'i ev6s] bracketed by Gomperz, England. 

362 



LAWS, BOOK V 

us now adopt : let us state the p>olities which rank 
first, second, and third in excellence ; and the choice 
let us hand over to Clinias and to whosoever else 
may at any time wish, in proceeding to the selection 
of such things, to take over, according to his 
own disposition, what he values in his own country. 
That State and polity come first, and those laws 
are best, where there is observed as carefully as 
possible throughout the whole State the old saying ^ 
that " friends have all things really in common." As 
to this condition, — whether it anywhere exists now, 
or ever will exist, — in which there is community 
of wives, children, and all chattels, and all that is 
called " private " is everywhere and bv every means 
rooted out of our life, and so far as possible it is 
contrived that even things naturally "private" have 
become in a way " communized," — eyes, for instance, 
and ears and hands seem to see, hear, and act in 
common, — and that all men are, so far as possible, 
unanimous in the praise and blame they bestow, 
rejoicing and grieving at the same things, and that 
they honour with all their heart those laws which 
render the State as unified as possible, — no one will 
ever lay down another definition that is truer or better 
than these conditions in point of super-excellence. 
In such a State, — be it gods or sons of gods that 
dwell in it, — they dwell pleasantly, living such a life 
as this. Wherefore one should not look elsewhere 
for a model constitution, but hold fast to this one, 
and with all one's power seek the constitution tliat 
is as like to it as possible. That constitution which 
we are now engaged upon, if it came into being, 

* A Pythagorean maxim frequently cit«d by Plato: cp. 
r^p. 424 A, Eurip. Orest. 725. 



PLATO 

av jevo^evT] ttw? adavacria^ efyyvrara koX ri/xla ^ 
8evTep(t)<i' rpirrjv Se /jLera ravra, iav 6eo<; iOeXr}, 
ScaTrepavovfieOa. vvv 8" ovv ravTrjv Ttva Xejofxev 
Kal 7r<w9 yevofievrjv av roiavTrjv ; 

^eifidadcov fikv Br] rrpoiTOV yrjv re Kal olKia<;, 
740 Kal fiij Koivfj 'yewpyovvTMv, eireLhrj to toiovtov 
fiel^ov rj Kara rrjv vvv yevecriv Kal Tpo<pT]v Kal 
iraihevcTiv eiprjTar vcfj-eaOcov S" ovv ToiaSe Siavoia 
'ira)<i, ft)? dpa hel tov Xaj^ovra rrjv Xrj^iv ravrrjv 
vo/Mi^€iv fxev KocvTjv avTTjv T^9 7r6\e<u9 ^v/xirdcnTi, 
TrarpiBo^ Be ova-rjq t% ^^topa? Oepairevetv avrrjv Bel 
fi€i^6v(t)<; Tj /jLrjTepa iralBa^, tG) Kal Becnroivav 9eov 
avTTjv ovaav dvrjT&v ovtcov yeyovivai, Tavra S' 
e;^ei^' BiavoijfiaTa Kal irepl tov<; eyxoap^ov; O€ov<i 

B re dfia Kal Baifiova^. ottoxi 5' av ravra el<i rov 
del ')(^p6vov ovrco<i e^ovra VTrdp^rj, rdBe irpoaBia- 
vor}reov' ocrai elal ra vvv rj/xtv earlat Biave/xt]- 
deXcrai rov dpidjxov, ravra<; Beiv del rocavra^ 
elvat Kal fiijre ri TrXetou? yiyvecrdai firjre ri trore 
iXdrrovi. w8' ovv av to roiovrov ^e^aieo^ 
ylyvotro irepl vdaav irokiv 6 \a)(0)v rov KXrfpov 
KaraXenrero) del ravrr)<; rrj<; oIkij(T€(o^ eva fiovov 
KXrjpovofiov r(bv kavrov ttulBcov, bv av avra> 
/idXiara t} ^iXov, BidBo-)(ov Kal Oepairevr'qv deoiv 

C Kal yevov<; Kal 7r6Xe&)9, roiv re ^covrtov Kal 0(tov<; 
av rfBrj reXot el<i rov rore ')(^p6vov e^V- TOv<i Be 
dXXov<; TTttiSa?, ol<; dv TrXeiov^ evof yiyvwvrai, 
6>]Xela<i re eKBoadai Kara vop-ov rov e'mra')(dri- 
ao/xevov, dppevd^ re, oh av rijf yevecrewi iXXetTrij 
TMv TToXircov, rovroi<; vlelf; Bcavifieiv, Kara x^P''^ 

^ rtiala my conj. (also Apelt, independently) : ij fxla MSS., 
edd. 

364 



LAWS, BOOK V 

would be very near to immortality, and would come 
second in point of merit. The third we shall inves- 
tigate hereafter, if God so will ; for the present, 
however, what is this second best polity, and how 
would it come to be of such a character ? 

First, let them portion out the land and houses, 
and not farm in common, since such a course is 
beyond the capacity of people with the birth, rearing 
and training we assume. And let the apportionment 
be made with this intention, — that the man who 
receives the portion should still regard it as common 
property of the whole State, and should tend the 
land, which is his fatherland, more diligently than a 
mother tends her children, inasmuch as it, being 
a goddess, is mistress over its mortal population, and 
should observe the same attitude also towards the 
local gods and daemons. And in order that these 
things may remain in this state for ever, these further 
rules must be observed : the number of hearths, as 
now appointed by us, must remain unchanged, and 
must never become either more or less. This will 
be securely effected, in the case of every State, in 
the following way : the allotment-holder shall always 
leave behind him one son, whichever he pleases, as 
the inheritor of his dwelling, to be his successor in 
the tendance of the deified ancestors both of family 
and of State, whether living or already deceased ; as 
to the rest of the children, when a man has more 
than one, he should marry off the females according 
to the law that is to be ordained,^ and the males he 
should dispose of to sueh of the citizens as have no 
male issue, by a friendly arrangement if possible ; 

» Cp.742a 

VOL. 1. N ^ ^ 



PLATO 

fjkev /xaXi(TTa' iav 8e riacv iWeiTTcoac ^ayOfxef, r) 
TrXeiot"? eTTiyovot yiyvayvrai OrjXei^ rj tiv€<s appeve^ 
€KdaT(ov, Tj Koi TovvavTLov OTav eXaTTOu? ooac 

D iraiScov a(f)opia<i yevofiivrj^, irdvTwv rovrcov ap-^rju 
fjv av 6d)/jLe0a jxeyiarr^v koI TtfitcoTcirrjv, avrq 
aK€ylra/jLevT] tl ')(pr] ')(^prj(TdaL rot? Treptyevofieuoi,'; 
fj TOi(i iWeiTTOvcTL, iropi^eroa fir}')(avriv on fiaXiara 
OTTft)? ai ■TTevraKLa)(^i\Lai koI TerrapaKOVTa olK^aei<i 
del fiovov eaovrai. firj'yaval 8' eicl iroXkar koX 
yap eVfcr^eo-et? yeve(Te(o<i ol<; av evpov^ 57 yeveai.';, 
Kal rovvavTiov iirt/jLeXeiai Kal airovSal irXridov^ 
yevvrm-drcov elal rt/xal'i re Kal dTipnai^ Kal vovOe- 

E rrjcrecn irpea^vTOiv ireplviovi [Sid Xoycov vovderiq- 
TiKOiv],^ at 7rai/T&)9 del ^ hvvavrai iroielv o Xiyofiev. 
Kal 8t) Kal TO ye reXo?, dv irdcra diropla irepl rrjv 
dvLcraaiv tcov irevTaKKT^^^iXloov Kal TerrapaKovra 
oiKwv yLyvTjrai, eTTt^ucri? S' virep^dXXovaa 
rifjLiv iroXirwv 8id <f)tXo<ppocrvvr)v rrjv rcov ^vvoi- 
KovvTfov aXX'^XoLt ^u/x^aivrj kui diropSifiev, to 
TraXaiov irov virdp'^eL /jLrj-^dvr)fia, o TroXXa^i? 
etTTOfiev, eKTrofMirrj diroiKicbv (^iXrj yiyvop.kv^) irapd 
<f)[X(ov, oiv dv iiTLTTjSeiov elvat Sokj], edv S' av 
Kal TOvvavTLOV eireXOri nore KVfia KaTaKXvajxov 
741 (pepov vocrcov rj iroXefioiv (pOopd, eXaTTOvi Be TToXif 
70V rerayfjievov dptOfiov Sl" 6p(f>avLa^ yevojvrai, 
eKovTa^ pev ov Bel iroXna'i rrapep-^aXXeuv voOr) 
TraiBeia 7re7rai8evp,evov<;, dvdyKijv Be ovBe 6e6<i 
elvai Xeyerai BvvaTb<; ^id^eaOai. 

* [5ia \6yaii' vovderriTiKuv'] bracketed by England. 

* at TrdvTcos ae\ : aramaxrai M8S. {anavTas at Schanz) 

^ i.e. the Law- wardens ; cp. 755 Bflf. 
366 



LAWS, BOOK V 

but where such arrangements prove insufficient, or 
where the family is too lar^re either in females or in 
males, or where, on the other hand, it is too small, 
through the occurrence of sterility, — in all these 
cases the magistrates, whom we shall appoint as the 
highest and most distinguished,^ shall consider how 
to deal with the excess or deficiency in families, and 
contrive means as best they can to secure tliat the 
5,040 households shall remain unaltered. There 
are many contrivances possible : where the fertility 
is great, there are methods of inhibition, and con- 
trariwise there are methods of encouraging and 
stimulating the birth-rate, by means of honours and 
dishonours, and by admonitions addressed by the 
old to the young, which are capable in all ways of 
producing the required effect. Moreover, as a final 
step, — in case we are in absolute desperation about 
the unequal condition of our 5,040 households, and 
are faced with a superabundance of citizens, owing 
to the mutual affection of those who cohabit with 
one another, which drives us to despair, — there still 
remains that ancient device which we have often 
mentioned, namely, the sending forth, in friendly wise 
from a friendly nation, of colonies consisting of such 
people as are deemed suitable. On the other hand, 
should the State ever be attacked by a deluging 
wave of disease or ruinous wars, and the houses 
fall much below the appointed number through 
bereavements, we ought not, of our own free will, to 
introduce new citizens trained with a bastard training 
— but " necessity " (as the proverb runs) " not even 
God himself can compel." * 

* A dictum of Simonides ; cp. Prolog. 345 6 ; Laws 818 A ff. 

367 



PLATO 

TaOr' ovv Srj top vvv Xeyofievov \6jov rj;j,lv ^iafiei' 
vapaiveiv, \eyovTa''D. iravrcov avhpSiv apiaroi, rrjp 
OfioioTtjTa Koi IcrorrjTa Kal to ravrov Koi 6/xo\oyov- 
fievov TifM(ovT€<; Kara (f>u(Tiv firj aviere Kara re apid- 

B pLOv Kal Trdaav Svvafiiv rrjv rcov KaXSiv KayaOoiv 
rrpayfiaTtov' Kal 8r) Kal vvv rov apidfiov p.ev irpwrov 
Sia ^iov TravTO'i (f)v\d^aT€ rov elprjfievov, elra ro 
rij'i ovaia<i v\ffO<; re Kal fieyedo^, o ro irpSirov 
eveCfiaaOe puerpiov ov, p,r} drifida-rjre rw re (ovelaOai 
Kal r(p nooXelv tt/oo? aXX'^Xov<i' ovre yap 6 veifia^ 
K\rjpo<; ^ Siv 6eo<i vpuv ^vp,p,axo<i, ovre 6 vofio- 
derr]<i' vvv yap Stj irpSirov ra> aTretdovvri v6p,o<i 
rrpoardrrei, TrpoeinoDV iirl rovroi<i KXrfpovaOai 

C rov ideXovra ^ pbrj KXrjpovaOai, o)? Trpwrov fiev 
T>}9 7^'? lepd^ oucrri<i rcov irdvroov decov, elra lepewv 
re Kal Upeicov ev^d'; Trocrjcrofiivcov eVt rot? 7rpa>roc<; 
OvfiaaL Kal hevrepoL^: Kal fiixP'' Tp^^yi/, rov irpid- 
fievov r] dirohop^evov cov eXa')(^ev olKoireBcov rj 
yrjTreBcov rd eirl rovrot<; rrperrovra Trda-^eiv Trddr). 
ypdyfravra S" iv rol<i iepoi<i Orjcrovai Kvrrapirriva^ 
ixvi)pa<i 649 rov eireira xpovov Karay€ypafip.eva<i' 
TT/oo? rovroa 8' ere ^vXaKrrjpia rovrcov, ott&i? dv 

J) ytyvrjrai, Karacrrijaovaiv iv ravrrj royv dpyoiv 
rjri^ dv o^vrarov opav Soktj, iV at rrapd ravra 
CKdarore frapayioyal yi,yv6p.evat /xrj Xavddvuxriv 
avrov<i, dXXa KoXd^cocrt rov direidovvra apa vofiai 
Kal Tft) 6ew. oaov yap 8t) ro vvv emrarro/xevov 
dyadov ov rvy ^dvet irdaai'i ral<i Trei9opAvai<i 

^ KXrjpot MSS. : KXrjpov MSS. marg., Zur., vulg. 
368 



LAWS, BOOK V 

Let us then suppose that oar present discourse gives 
the following advice : — My most excellent friends, 
be not slack to pay honour, as Nature ordains, 
to similarity and equality and identity and congruity 
in respect of number and of every influence produc- 
tive of things fair and good. Above all, now, in the 
first place, guard throughout your lives the number 
stated ; in the next place, dishonour not the due 
measure of the height and magnitude of your sub- 
stance, as originally apportioned, by buying and 
selling one to another: otherwise, neither will the 
apportioning Lot,^ which is divine, fight on your side, 
nor will the lawgiver : for now, in the first place, 
the law lays on the disobedient this injunction : — 
since it has given warning that whoso wills should 
take or refuse an allotment on the understanding 
that, first, the land is sacred to all the gods, and 
further, that prayers shall be made at the first, 
second, and third sacrifices by the priests and 
priestesses, — therefore the man who buys or sells 
the house-plot or land-plot allotted to him must 
suffer the penalty attached to this sin. The officials 
shall inscribe on tablets of cypress-wood written 
records for future reference, and shall place them 
in the shrines ; furthermore, they shall place the 
charge of the execution of these matters in the hands 
of that magistrate who is deemed to be most keen of 
vision, in order that all breaches of these rules may 
be brought to their notice, and they may punish the 
man who disobeys both the law and the god. How- 
great a blessing the ordinance now described — when 
the appropriate organisation accompanies it — proves 

^ The lot was supposed to record the verdict of God (cp. 
690 C, and Acts i. 26), — hence its sanctity. 



PLATO 

TToXecrt Tr)v ejrofxevrjv KaraaKevrjV TTpoaXa^ov, 
Kara rrjv iraXaLav irapoLixiav ovhc\<; etaerai ttotc 
KaKo<; cbv aX,V efxireipo^ re /cal eTrieiKr)^ eOeai 
E yevofievo^;' 'X^pij/jLariafxh'; yap ovt evecxTt (T(f)68pa 
iv Tfi roiavrrj KaracTKevfj, ^vveireTai re avrfj iMrjhe 
Belv fX7]h^ e^elvat 'X^prjfxarl^ea-dai roov aveKevOepwv 
'^prj/jLaricTficov /xrjBevl fjbrjSiva, Kad^ oaov iir- 
oveL8c(TTO<; Xejofievrj ^avavaia ri6o<i dTrorpeirei 
iXevdepov, fxrjSe rb irapdirav d^iovv €k t5)v 
ToiovTCOv ^vXkiyeiv 'X^pijfiara. TTyoos' rovrot^ B' 
742 €Ti v6fio<; eirerai rrdac rovroi^, firjB^ e^eivai %/Of- 
(Tov /xrjSe apyvpov KeKrrjcrdai firjSeva firjSevl 
iBccoTT}, vofxia/jLU B eveKa aWayfj<; rrj<i kuO 
rjfiepav, rjv Brjfiiovpyoi^ re dWaTreadat a-'^^eBov 
dvayKoiov, koI ndcnv 6tt6(joi,<; ^ XP^^^ "^^^ Toiovrcov 
fiiaOov<; fii(T6(i)Toi<;,Bov\oL'i /cal eiroLKoi^, dirorivetv. 
COP eveKa ^afiev to vofxia/xa KTrjreov avroi'i fiev 
evTifxov, T0i9 Be aX\oi<; dv6p(07roi<; dBoKtfiov. 
Koivov 5' 'EiWrjvLKOv vofiLCTfia eveKa re arpuTeicov 
Kal diToBriixLOiv el<i tov<; aWovi dvdpcoTrov;, olov 
irpea^eiSiv rj kul TCvo<i dvayKaia<i aXXry? t^ irokei 
Kr)pvKeLa<i, eKTrefXireiv Tivd dv Berj, rovrcov %a/c>ti/ 
dvdyKT) eKaaTore KeKrrjaOaL rf} TroXei vofiiafxa 
B 'EWrjvcKov. IBkotj} 8' dv dpa Trore dvdyKrj rt? 
yLyvqTat, diroBrnjuelv, Trapefievos fiev tou? dp^ovra^; 
dtroB'qp^eirco, vopLi<7p.a Be dv irodev eywv ^eviKov 
otKuBe dc^LKrjTai Trepiyevofievov, rfj iroXec avro 
KaTU^aWeTQ) tt/jo? \6yov dTToXapL^dvoav to eiri- 

^ ivSaois Ast : b-K6a(»v MSS. 

^ The proverb was, perhaps, ouSelj &ir(ipos fiatrai, — like 
expericrUia docet. 



LAWS, BOOK V 

to all the States that obey it — that is a thing which, 
as the old proverb^ says, none that is evil shall 
know, but only he that has become experienced and 
practised in virtuous habits. For in the organisa- 
tion described there exists no excess of money- 
making, and it involves the condition that no 
facility should or can be given to anyone to make 
money by means of any illiberal trade, — inasmuch 
as what is called contemptible vulgarity perverts 
a liberal character, — and also that no one should 
ever claim to heap up riches from any such source. 
Furthermore, upon all this there follows also a law 
which forbids any private person to possess any gold 
or silver, only coin for purposes of such daily exchange 
as it is almost necessary for craftsmen ^ to make use of, 
and all who need such things in paying wages to 
hirelings, whether slaves or immigrants. For these 
reasons we say that our people should possess coined 
money which is legal tender among themselves, but 
valueless elsewhere. As regards the universal 
Hellenic coinage, — for the sake of expeditions and 
foreign visits, as well as of embassies or any other 
missions necessary for the State, if there be need to 
send someone abroad, — for sucii objects as these it is 
necessary that the State should always possess Hel- 
lenic money. If a private citizen ever finds himself 
obliged to go abroad,' he may do so, after first 
getting leave from the magistrates ; and should he 
come home with any surplus of foreign monev, lie 
shall deposit it with the State, and take for it an 

^ They require coined money for their bosineas dealings 
with one another : cp. Hep. 371 B ff. 
» C5p. 950 D S. 



PLATO 

'X^topiov lBiov^€vo<; 8' dv Tt? (^aiirqrai, hr]fi6(xi6v re 
yiyveado) xal 6 ^vpeiSax; koI firj (ppd^mv dpa koI 
oveiSei fierd tov dywyovro'i evo')(0<t earw, Koi 
^rj/jbia 7r/0O9 tovtoc; firj ekdrTOVi tov ^cvckov 

K0/xi(T6ivT0<; vo filer ixaTO<i. ya/xovvTa Be koi 
eKBiBovra {xriT ovv BiBovat ixrjTe Bex^crdai 
TrpoLKa TO rrrapdirav firjS' rjvTivovv, /JLijBe vo/xiafia 
irapaKaTaTideadai orcp firj ri? Trtcnevei, firjBi 
Bavel^eiv inl tokw, £09 e^ov firj dfroBiBovat to 
Trapdnrav Ta> BaveicrafiipQ} fxiJTe tokov p.rjTe 
Ke^dXaiov. 

TavTa B' OTi ^eXTKTTd ecrrt iroXei eTriTTjBev- 
fxara iTTLTijBeveiv, loBe dv Tt? aKOirSiv 6pda)<; dv 

D avTa BtaKpivoi, eiravaejiepcdv ei? Tr)v dp')(T)v del 
Kol Ttjv ^ovXtjctiv. ecTTi Br) tov vovv e^ovTO<; 
rroXiTiKov ^ov\rjcri<;, (pafiiv, ov^ rjvTrep dv 
ol TToWoi (palev, Belv ^ov\ea0ai tov dyadov 
vofjLodeTrjv ft)9 p^e'yicnrjv re elvai ttjv ttoXiv jj 
vooiv €v vofjLodeTol Kol OTi fidXicTTa irXovaiav, 
K€KTr]p,evrjv S" av xpvaca Kol dpfyvpia koI KaTa 
lyrjv KoX KaTCL OdXuTTav dp')(^ov(Tav on irXelaTwv 
nrpoaOelev 8' dv koX 6i<i dpta-Tijv Betv ^ovXecrdai 
Trjv ttoXlv elvai kuI ct)9 evBaifioveaTUTTjv tov ye 

E 6pdSi<i vopbodeTovvTa. tovtcov Be to, fiev Bwutu 
i<rTt ryiyveadai, tu Be ov BwaTU' tu fxev ovv 
BvvaTa ^ovXocT dv 6 BiaKocrficov, ra Be fir] Bwutu 
ovt' dv ^ovXoiTO fiaTulwi jBovXrjaei'i ovt dv 
iTTix^ipol. <T)(^eBov /lev yap €vBaifiova<; dfia koX 
dya6oLi<i dvdyKr) yiyveaOat' tovto fiev ovv 

* i.e. if the citizens are to be happy they must be good. 
In what follows it is shown that good men cannot be very 



LAWS, BOOK V 

equivalent in home coinage ; but should anyone be 
found out keeping it for himself, the money shall be 
confiscated, and the man who is privy to it and fails 
to inform, together with the man who has imported 
it, shall be liable to cursing and reproach and, in 
addition, to a fine not less than the amount of the 
foreign money brought in. In marrying or giving in 
marriage, no one shall give or receive any dowry at 
all. No one shall dejwsit money with anyone he 
does not trust, nor lend at interest, since it is per- 
missible for the borrower to refuse entirely to pay 
back either interest or principal. 

That these are the best rules for a State to 
observe in practice, one would perceive rightly 
if one viewed them in relation to the primary in- 
tention. The intention of the judicious states- 
man is, we say, not at all the intention which 
the majority would ascribe to him ; they would say 
that the good lawgiver should desire that the State, 
for which he is benevolently legislating, should be as 
large and as rich as possible, jK)ssessed of silver and 
gold, and bearing rule over as many people as 
possible both by land and sea ; and they would add 
that he should desire the State to be as good and as 
happy as possible, if he is a true legislator. Of these 
objects some are possible of attainment, some 
impossible ; such as are possible the organiser of the 
State will desire ; the impossible he will neither 
vainly desire nor attempt. That happiness and 
goodness should go together is well-nigh inevitable,^ 
so he will desire the people to be both good and 

rich nor very rich men good, therefore also the very rich 
cannot be happy. 

373 



PLATO 

^ovXoiT av 7r\ov(TLOV<; S' at" a(j)6hpa Kol a<ya- 
dov<i aSvvaTOv, ov<; ye Bt) irXovaiou'i ol ttoWoI 
KaraXey overt' Xeyovai Be rou<i KeKTrjjxevov^ ev 
oXiyoit Twv dvOpcoTTcov irXeicnov vo/j^ia/xaTo^ a^ia 
743 KTrjfiaTa, a Kai kuko^ ri^ KeKrfJT av. el 5' eari 
TOVTO ouTCt)? ex^v, ovK uv eycoye avroi<i irore avy- 
Xft^poirjv Tov irXovcTiov evSai/xova ttj dXtjdeia 
ytyveadai /xt] Kol dyaOov ovra. dyadov he ovra 
8ia(f)€popTco<; Kol nrXovaiov elvai, Bia(}>ep6vTa)<i dBv- 
varov. Tt 8i] ; (f>a{,r) xi? av tcra)?. oti, (f)aifiev av, 
f] re €K BiKulov Kal uBLkov kt7](tc^ irXiov fj BiirXa- 
aia earl t»}9 e« rou BiKaiov fxovov, rd re dvaXco- 
fiara firjre /caXw? fi'>]re alaxpft^^ edeXovra dvaXia- 
Keadai rwv kuXcov koL et? KoXa iOeXovrwv 
BanavdaBai BnrXacrLrp iXdrrova. ovkovv irore 
B av rcov e« BnrXaaiwv /xev KTr^p^drcov, rjfjilcreMv Be 
dvaXcofidrwv o rd ivavrla rovrcov irpdrroiv yevoir 
av TrXovcn(Jiirepo<;. eari Be 6 /xev dya66<; rovrcov, 
6 Be ov KaKo^i, orav fj ^eiBcoXo^' <6rav Be fii] 
(f)etBQ)X6<;,> ^ rore 8i] irore Kai irdyKaKO'i' dya06<; 
Be, oirep etprjrai rd vvv, ovBeirore' o fiev yap 
BiKaiai^ Kai dBiKco^ Xafi^dvcov Kal fnjre BiKaloi^; 
firjre dSi,K(i)<i dvaXicTKcov irXovcrio'i [orav Kal 
(fieiBcoXo^ 2?]"^ o B^ TrdyKaKO<i o)? ra TroXXa (ov 
C dacorof /ndXa rrevr}^' 6 Be dvaXicr kwv re el<i rd 
KaXd Kal KTCo/jievo'; ex rSiv BiKaicov fiovov ovr dv 
Bia<pep(i)V TrXovro) paBico^ dv irore yevoiro ouB' av 

* (orav Se /iii <(>(iiie\6s,y I add, and write 5^ irore for dt irort 
of MSS. 

* [oToc . . . ^] bracketed by Susemihl, Schanz. 

^ e.g. A (a good man) gains (justly) £300, of which he 
spends £100 on necessaries and £100 on noble objects, leaving 

374 



LAWS, BOOK V 

happy; but it is impossible for tliem to be at once 
both good and excessively rich — rich at least as 
most men count riches ; for they reckon as rich 
those who possess, in a rare degree, goods worth a 
vast deal of money, and these even a wicked man 
might possess. And since this is so, I would never 
concede to them that the rich man is really happy if 
he is not also good ; while, if a man is superlatively 
good, it is impossible that he should be also super- 
latively rich. " Why so ? " it may be asked. Because, 
we would reply, the gain derived from both right and 
wrong is more than double that from right alone, 
whereas the expenditure of those who refuse to 
spend either nobly or ignobly is only one-half the 
expenditure of those who are noble and like spend- 
ing on noble objects; consequently, the wealth of 
men who double their gains and halve their expendi- 
ture will never be exceeded by the men whose pro- 
cedure in both respects is just the opposite.^ Now 
of these men, the one is good, and the other not 
bad, so long as he is niggardly, but utterly bad when 
he is not niggardly, and (as we have just said) at no 
time good. For Avhile the one man, since he takes 
both justly and unjustly and spends neither justly nor 
unjustly, is rich (and the utterly bad man, being 
lavish as a rule, is very poor), — the other man, who 
spends on noble objects, and gains by just means 
only, is never likely to become either superlatively 

him a balance of £100. B (a not-good man) gains (justly and 
unjustly) £600, of which he spends £100 on necessaries, and 
nothing on noble objects, leaving him a balance of £500. 
The third type( C) is Morse than £ because he not only gains 
but also spends wrongly. Type A shows how the good man 
is neither very rich nor very poor, — B, how the bad man may 
be very rich, — C, how the bad may be very poor. 

375 



PLATO 

(T(f)oBpa 7revT)'i. u)<tt€ o \0709 rjfilv 6p66<i, w? ovk 
elclv 01 ira/jLTrXovacoi ayadoi' el 8e /j,r) dyaOoi, 
ovSe evhaifiove^. 

'Hytttr he 7) TMV vofiwv vTTodecn^ evTavda 
e^Xeirev, 6irai<; &)? evBai/j,ovi(TTaToi eaovrat koI 
oTi fidXiara dW7]Xoi<; (f)iXot' elev 8e ovk dp 
TTOTC TToXiTai (ptXoi, oTTov TToXXal fiep Slkui ev 
dXXrfXoi'i elev, iroXXai Se dhiiciai, dXX ottov a)<f 

D oTt cTficKpoTarai zeal oXbyicrTai. Xeyo/u,ev St) firjTe 
y(pvaov elvai Seiv fjbtjre dpyvpov ev rfj iroXei, /j,y]T^ 
av ■)(pr}/jLaTiafiov voXvv 8id ^avavaia<i koI tokwv 
firjSe ^oaKTj/jidrcov ala')(p(iov, dXX^ oaa yeoypyia 
SiSoyai KoX (pepei, Kal tovtcov oiroaa firj 'x^prjfiaTi' 
^6/j,evov dvay/cdcrei d/xeXeiv o)v evexa TrecfiVKC rd 
')(^prj[i,aTa. ravra S' earl '^vx^ '^"^ crcofia, a 
Y^cop^'i yvfjLvacTTiKrj^; Kal t^<? dXX't]<i TratSeta? ovk 

E av TTore yevono d^ia Xoyov, 810 Srj ^/aT/ziarfwy 
eTTifieKeiav ov^ dira^ elprJKafiev (w? xph TeXevraiov 
Tifiav ovTcop yap rptcov tmv dTrdvrcov irepl a Tras' 
dvOpcoiro'i cnrovSd^ei, TeXevraiov Kal rpirov icrrlv 
7} r&v ;j^/3?7/i.aT&)i' 6pdSi<i orTTovSa^Ofievrj (nrovSt], 
<ra)/iaTO? 8e rrepi fiear}, Trpcorrj 8e r) rrj<i "^v^V^- 
Kal 8r) Kal vvv fjv Sie^ep^ofieda iToXireiav, el fxev 
T09 ri/j,d<i ovro) rdrrerai, 6p6(t)<; vevofioOirrjrai' el 
8i rc<; TMV rrpoararroixevwv avrodi vofxwv aco^po- 
744 (rvvrj^ e^irpocrdev vyieiav ev rfj iroXei cfjavelrai 
TTOifov rifilav r) rrXovrov vytela^ Kal rov aax^po- 
velv, OVK 6pd(o<i dva(f)avetrai ride/xevc;. rovr ovv 
8tj 7roXXdKi<; e7na-r)fiaivecr6ai XPV '^^^ vo/J-oOerrjv, 
Tt re ^ovXofxai, Kal, ei fioi ^vfi^alvei rovro r) Kal 

1 Cd. fiSl C. 697 B, 728 E. 
376 



LAWS, BOOK V 

rich or extremely poor. Accordingly, what we 
iiave stated is true, — that the very rich are not 
good, and not being good, neither are they 
happy. 

Now the fundamental purpose of our laws was this, 
— that the citizens should be as happy as possible, 
and in the higliest degree united in mutual friend- 
ship. Friendly the citizens will never be where 
they have frequent legal actions with one another 
and frequent illegal acts, but rather where these are 
the fewest and least possible. We say that in the 
State there must be neither gold nor silver, nor 
must there be much money-making by means of 
vulgar trading or usury or the fattening of gelded 
beasts, but only such profit as farming offers and 
yields, and of this only so much as will not drive a 
man by his money-making to neglect the objects for 
which money exists : these objects are the soul and 
the body, which without gymnastic and the other 
branches of education would never become things of 
value. Wherefore we have asserted (and that not 
once only) ^ that the pursuit of money is to be 
honoured last of all : of all the three objects which 
concern every man, the concern for money, rightly 
directed, comes third and last; that for the body 
comes second ; and that for the soul, first. Accord- 
ingly, if it prescribes its honours in this order, the 
polity which we are describing has its laws correctly 
laid down ; but if any of the laws therein enacted shall 
evidently make health of more honour in the State 
than temperance, or wealth than health and temper- 
ance, it will quite clearly be a wrong enactment. 
Thus the lawgiver must ofttimes put this question to 
himself—" What is it that I intend ? " and, '* Am I 

377 



PLATO 

atroTvyx^dvo) tov aKoirov' koI ovto) to,')^ av I'crfu? 
e/c T^9 vofiod€cTia<; auTo? re eK^aivoi koI tou? 
aWou9 aTraXXaTTOt, /car' dWov 8e rpoirov ovS" ar 
€Pa TTore. 

'O 8r) Xa^fov K€KTt]ad(i), (pufiiv, tov KXrjpov 

B eTTi TOVTOi<; ol? elprjKajxev. rjv fxev 8r] KaXov kul 
TaWa Lcra iravr k^ovra eva e/caarov iXOecv et? 
TTjv aTTOiKvav eireihi] he ov hvvarov, aXX' o /iec 
Tt9 TrXetw K€/CT7jfievo<; a<pl^€rai ')(^prjp,ara, 6 h" 
iXuTTOva, Set Stj ttoWcov eveKa tmv re Kara ttoXlv 
Katpwv laoTrjTO^ eveKa ri/jiijfjLaTa dviaa yeveaOat, 
IV ap')(^ai T€ /cat elcr^opaX 8iave/j,a>vTat Kara ^ -rr^v 
T^9 d^ia<i €Kd(TTOi<; tl/jLtJv, fxr] kut dperrjv fiovov 
TTjv re irpoyovcov koI rrjv avTov, fi,r}8e Kara a-w/xd- 

C Tcov la-'xy'i KoX evixop(^ia<;, dWa koI Kara rrXovrov 
'X^prjacv Kal irevia'i, ra? rifid^; re fcal dpx^'i &>? 
itralrara ro) dviaw ^u/u,p,€rpo) 8e d7roXa/j,^dvovT€<; 
firj htacpepwvrai. rovrcov %a/Oii/ rerrapa p,eykdei 
rr]<i overlap rifirjfjbara iroielaOat ')(^peoiv, Trpcorovi 
Kal 8evr€pov<i Kal rpirov^; Kal rerdprovi, rj ncnv 
aXXoL<i 7rpoaayopeuo/jLevov<; ovopxiaiv, orav re 
/juevcocriv iv rw avru> rinrjixari Kal orav TrXovcn- 
(orepoi CK 7rev7Jr(ov Kal e« 7rXovcrl(ov rrevqre<i 
yiyvopbevoL jnera^alvcoaiv ei? to TrpoarJKOv eKacrrot 
eavroicTi rifxrj/jLa. 

D T68e 8' iirl rovroi<} av vofiov a)(r)p.a eyoay 
av rideirfv w? eiropbevov. 8el yap ev rroXet ttov, 
<f)afiev, rfi rov /neyiarov voaT]fj,aro<; ov /xeOe^- 
ovcTTj, hidaraaiv rj ardcnv opdorepov av eir] 
KeKXrjcrdai, firjre ireviav rrjv 'X^aXcTrrjv ivelvat 

^ ZtavifiuivTau Kara : ical SiafO/xal MSS. (Ast brackets upx^ 



LAWS, BOOK V 

succeeding in this, or am I wide of the mark ? " In 
this way he might, perhaps, get through the task of 
legislation himself, and save others tlie trouble of it ; 
but in no other way could he ever possibly do so. 

The man who has received an allotment shall hold 
it, as we say, on the terms stated. It would indeed 
have been a splendid thing if each person, on 
entering the colony, had had all else equal as well. 
Since this, however, is impossible, and one man will 
arrive with more money and another with less, it is 
necessary for many reasons, and for the sake of 
equalising chances in public life, that there should 
be unequal valuations, in order that offices and 
contributions may be assigned in accordance with 
the assessed valuation in each case, — being framed not 
in proportion only to the moral excellence of a man's 
ancestors or of himself, nor to his bodily strengtii and 
comeliness, but in proportion also to his wealth or 
poverty, — so that by a rule of symmetrical inequality ^ 
they may receive offices and honours as equally as 
possible, and may have no quarrelling. For these 
reasons we must make four classes, graded by size of 
property, and called first, second, third and fourth (or 
by some other names), alike when the individuals re- 
main in the same class and when, through a change 
from poverty to wealth or iVom wealth to ]>overty, 
they pass over each to that class to which he belongs. 

The kind of law that I would enact as proper to 
follow next after the foregoing would be this : It is, as 
we assert, necessary in a State which is to avoid that 
greatest of plagues, which is better termed disrup- 
tion than dissension,^ that none of its citizens should 

^ i.e. of proportional distribution: cp. 757 A fif. for 
" political," as distinct from "arithmetical," equality. 
* Or " class discord. " 

379 



PLATO 

irapd Tiai rcav ttoXitcov /xrJT av trXovrov, 

a)9 dfl(f)OT€p(OV TLKTOVTCdV TUVTU d/j,(f)6r€pa' vvv 
O^V OpOV hel TOVTtOV €KaT€pOV TOP VOp,O0€TJ]V 

<l>pd^€iv. earco Sr/ irevia^ fiev opo^ rj rov K\r)pov 
E ri^rj, ov Set puevetv Kal op dp^cov ov8el<i ovhevi 
TTore irepioy^erai, iXdrro) yiyvop-evov, t&v re 
dWcov Kara ravrd ovBel^ octti^ <^i\6Tifio<i eii 
dperp. fiirpov Se avrov 9ep,€vo^ 6 vofio9eTq<i 
SnrKdaiov idaei tovtov Krdcrdat koX TpnrXdatou 
Koi fi^XP'' T€TpaTTXa(TL0V' rcXeiova 5' dv rt? 
Krdrai rovrav evpoov rj SodevTcov iroOev rj XPV' 
fiaTiadfievo^ rf Tivt TVXV TOiavTrj KTrjadfievos 
745 dWj] rd TrepiytyvofMeva rov fiirpov, rrj iroXei dv 
avrd Kal roi<; ttjv ttoXiv exovari 6eol<i dTrovefifov 
evSoKifiof T€ Kal dt^rjp,io<i dv eirj' edv 8e Tt? 
direidT] TOUTft) ra v6p,u>, (f)avel fiev 6 ^ovX6p,evo<i 
eTrl TOt? ri/uaeaiv, o Be ocpXcbv dXXo Toaovrov 
fjLepo<i diroTiaei t/}? avTOu KTijaeoof, rd S' ■qixlaea 
TOiv Oeoiv. rj he KTTJai'i %G>/3t9 tov KXijpov TrdvTcov 
irdaa ev tS (pavepo) yeypd^Ow irapd (fyvXa^iv 
dpxovaiv, ol? dv 6 vopLO^ TrpoaTd^rj, ottw? dv al 
B BiKac rrepl ttuvtcov oaa ^ et? ^yO??yu.aTa pdBiai 
re coari Kal cr(p68pa aa^el^. 

To hr) fierd touto, irpoiTOV fiev rrjv iroXiv 
ISpvadai Sec t?}? ;;^<upa<? oti fidXiara ev pecrrp, Kal 
rdXXa oaa Trp6a<f>opa iroXei t&v vjrapxovrwv 
exovra tottov eKXe^dp,evov, d vorjaai re Kal elirelv 
ovBev vaXeTTOt'' fierd 8e ravTa fxeprj ScoBcKa 8i- 
eXia-Oai, de/xevov 'Ecrria? irpayTov Kal Ato? Kal 
^XOrjvdf; lepov, dKponoXiv ovofid^ovra, kvkXov 

^ iffa Stephens, Schanz : itrai MSS. 
380 



LAWS, BOOK V 

be in a condition of eitlier painful poverty or wealth, 
since both these conditions produce botli these results; 
consequently the lawgiver must now declare a limit 
for both these conditions. The limit of poverty shall 
be the value of the allotment : this must remain fixed, 
and its diminution in any particular instance no 
magistrate should overlook, nor any other citizen 
who aspires to goodness. And having set this as 
the (inferior) limit, the lawgiver shall allow a man to 
possess twice this amount, or three times, or four 
times. Should anyone acquire more than this — 
whether by discover)' or gift or money-making, or 
through gaining a sum exceeding the due measure 
by some other such piece of luck, — if he makes the 
surplus over to the State and the gods who keep the 
State,heshall be well-esteemed and free from penalty. 
But if anyone disobeys this law, whoso wishes may 
get half by laying information, and the man that is 
convicted shall pay out an equal share of his own 
property, and the half shall go to the gods. All the 
property of every man over and above his allotment 
shall be publicly written out and be in the keeping 
of the magistrates appointed by law, so that legal 
rights pertaining to all matters of property may be 
easy to decide and perfectly clear. 

In the next place, the lawgiver must first plant his 
city as nearly as possible in the centre of the country, 
choosing a spot which has all the other conveniences 
also which a city requires, and which it is easy 
enough to perceive and specify. After this, he 
must divide off twelve portions of land, — when he 
has first set apart a sacred glebe for Hestia, Zeus 
and Athene, to which he shall give the name 
"acropolis" and circle it round with a ring- wall ; 

38« 



PLATO 

C irepi^dWovra, d^' ov ra SwSeKa fiepr) rifjiveiv 
TTjV re TToXiv avrrjv Kal Tracrav ttjv yoipav. taa 
he hel lylyveadai ra 8(t)BeKa ^eprj tA to, fiev 
ayaO)]<; 7/}? elvat a-fiiKpd, to, Se ')(^eipovo<i fiei^co. 
K\t]pov<i Se SieXecv TerrapaKovra koX irevTUKia- 
')(^Lkiov^, TOVTWv re av hi')(a t€/ii€lv eKaarov Kal 
^vyKXripwaai hvo Tfuj/iara, rov t £771)9 Kal tov 
TToppco /jL€r€)(ovTa eKaarore'^ to 7rpo<; ttj ttoXci 
fjLepo<i T& 7rp6<; to4<? ia)(^dTOi<; [eh KXrjpo^] ^ Kal to 
SevTepov diTo iroXeox; ra> dir' eaxdrwv SevTcpq), 

D Kal TaWa ovtw iravTa. /nij^^^avdadai Be Kal ev 
Tol<i Bi^a T/xTj/xaai to vvv Brj Xeyop-evov (pavXorr)- 
T09 re <Trepi> ^ Kal dpeTrj<i ')((opa^, eiravcaovfievov^ 
TO) TrXrjdeb re Kal oXiyoTtjTi, t^9 Biavofirj^. velfiai ^ 
Be Bet Kal Tov<i dvBpa<i BooBcKa p-eprj, rrjv T779 
dXXT]<i ovaia<i <d^lav> ^ el<i taa oti /xdXiaTa to. 
BoiiBeKa /xepT} (rvvTa^d/ievov, d7roypa(f)f}<i TravTcov 
ryevo/j.evrjf}' Kal Brj Kal to fiera tovto BcoBeKa 
OeoL(i BcoBeKa KXrjpovi 6evTa<i eirovofidcrai Kal 
KaOiepcacrai to Xa^oi/ fiepa eKdaTw tw dew, Kal 

E <f)vXr)v avTTjv eirovo/xdaaL' TefMveiv Be av Kal r-d 
BcoBcKa TTj^ 7r6XeQ)<i Tfxrjfxara tov avrov rporrov 
ovirep Kal ttjv dXXrjv 'X^copav Bievefiov Kal Bvo 
ve/Meadat cKaaTOV olKr)aeL<i, T771/ re ijyv^ tov 
fieaov Kal ttjv twv iax<^T^v- Kal ttjv fxev 
KaTOLKiaiv ovto) TeXof ex^iv. 

^E^vvoelv Be rjixd^ to toiovS" earl xpecav eK 
nravTO'i Tporrov, wf to, vvv elprffieva Trdvra ovk 
av TTore eh Toiovrovi Kaipov'; ^vfiTreaoi, (oaTe 

^ eKOLffTOTe Schanz : kKirepov MSS. 

* [els /cA.77pos] bracketed by Peipers, Schanz. 

» <ir<p<> I add here (Schanz after x'^'p***)- 

382 



LAWS, BOOK V 

starting from this he must divide up both the city 
itself and all the country into the twelve ])ortions. 
The twelve portions must be equalised by making 
those consisting of good land small, and those of 
inferior land larger. He must mark off 5,040 allot- 
ments, and each of these he must cut in two and join 
two pieces to form each several allotment, so that 
each contains a near piece and a distant piece, — ^join- 
ing the piece next the city with the piece furthest off, 
the second nearest with the second furthest, and so on 
with all the rest.^ And in dealing with these separate 
portions, they must employ the device we mentioned 
a moment ago, about poor land and good, and secure 
equality by making the assigned portions of larger 
or smaller size. And he must divide the citizens 
also into twelve parts, making all the twelve parts 
as equal as possible in respect of the value of the 
rest of their property, after a census has been made 
of all. After this they must also appoint twelve 
allotments for the twelve gods, and name and con- 
secrate the portion allotted to each god, giving it 
the name of " phyle." ^ And they must also divide 
the twelve sections of the city in the same manner 
as they divided the rest of the country ; and each 
citizen must take as his share two dwellings, one 
near the centre of the country the other near the out- 
skirts. Thus the settlement shall be conipleted. 

But we must by all means notice this, — that all 
the arrangements now described will never be likely 
to meet with such favourable conditions that the 

1 Cp. 776 A. » i.e. "tribe." 



* vej^ot England : vflfiatrOai M SS. 

• <i4(«'> I add. 



^^3 



PLATO 

746 ^v^^rjvai Kara Xuyov ovto) ^Vfxiravra yevofiepa 
avhpa^ re o'l firj hva'^epavoixrt, ttjv TOiavTTjv 
^vvoiKiav, aW' vTrofievovai '^pijfMard re e^ovre? 
TUKTa KoX /xerpta 8ta ^lov TravTO? Kal iraihwv 
y€vecrei<i a<; elpr]fcafj,ev iKd(noi<i, koI 'y^pvaov 
<TTep6fi€voi KoX erepcov atv 8/}Xo9 6 vofiodeTr]<i 
irpoard^fjov iarlv ex tovtcov tcov vvv elpi]fieva)v, 
en he 'Xjciipa'i re koX d(neo<i, co? elprjKe, ev fieaw 
Tivd<; ^ T6 Koi ev kvkXw olKrja-ei^, nrdvrr) (T')(ehov 
olov oveipara Xeycov rj irXdrTOiv Kaddirep e/c 

B Krjpov rivd ttoXiv koI iroX'na^. e^^et Brj ra 
TOiavra ov KaKSi<; rivd rponov elprjp,epa, 'xprj S' 
e7rava\ap/3dveiv Trpo? avTov rd roidSe. trdXiv 
dpa Tj/jLLV 6 vofioOercov (ppd^ei roSe' 'Kv TOVTOi<i 
Tot? Xoyoi'i, 0) (j>i\oi, fxrjS' avTov hoKelre fie 
XeXtjOevai to vvv Xeyofievov, o)? dXtjdr] 8tef e/j^era/ 
Tiva TpoTTov dXXd yap ev eKdaToi^ tcov /xeXXov- 
rcov eaeadai BiKaioTUTov dlfiai Tohe elvai, tov tc 
rrapdSeLyfia BeiKvvvTa, olov Set to e-JTL'xeipo'up.evov 
yiyveadai, fitjSev diroXeLTreiv tcov KaXXicrTwv tc 
Kal dXrjdecrTdTCOv' w Be dBvvaTov re ^Vfi^atvei 

C TOVTCOV ylyveadai, tovto /lev avTo eKKXivetv Kal 
firj TrpdrTeiv, o tl Be tovtov tcov Xoittcov iyyvTard 
eaTi Kal ^vyyevecrTaTOv e(f)v tcov irpocrrjKovTcov 
irpdTTeiv, TOVT avro Biafiij^ctvaaOai oirco^ av 
yiyvrjTat,' tov vo/jLoOeTTjv 3' eaaai reXo^i eTridelvai 
Tfi ^ovXrjaei, yevofievov Be tovtov, tot i]Br) Koivfj 
H€T eKeivov aKorrelv 6 tL re ^v/ji<f>epet tcov elpr}- 
fiei'cov Kal tL 7rp6aavT€<; eiprjrat TJ79 vofiodecrca^' 
to yap ofMoXoyov/xevov avTo avTco Bel ttov iravraxv 

* if fifffcf Tiva.il ix«T6rifrii MSS., edd. 
384 



LAWS, BOOK V 

whole programme can be carried out according to 
plan. This requires that the citizens will raise no 
objection to such a mode of living together, 
and will tolerate being restricted for life to fixed 
and limited amounts of property and to families 
such as we have stated, and being deprived of gold 
and of the other things which the lawgiver is clearly 
obliged by our regulations to forbid, and will submit 
also to the arrangements lie has defined for country 
and city, with the dwellings set in the centre and 
round the circumference, — almost as if he were 
telling nothing but dreams, or moulding, so to say, 
a city and citizens out of wax. These criticisms 
are not altogether unfair, and the lawgiver should 
reconsider the points that follow. So he that is 
legislating speaks to us again in this wise : " Do 
not suppose, my friends, that I in these my dis- 
courses fail to observe the truth of what is now 
set out in this criticism. But in dealing with all 
schemes for the future, the fairest plan, I think, is 
this — that the person who exhibits the pattern on 
which the undertaking is to be modelled should 
omit no detail of perfect beauty and truth ; but 
where any of them is impossible of realisation, that 
particular detail he should omit and leave un- 
executed, but contrive to execute instead whatever 
of the remaining details comes nearest to this and 
is by nature most closely akin to the right procedure ; 
and he should allow the lawgiver to express his 
ideal completely ; and when this is done, then and 
then only should they both consult together as to 
how far their proposals are expedient and how much 
of the legislation is impracticable. For the con- 
structor of even the most trivial object, if he is to be 

385 



PLATO 

aTrepyd^eaOat. kuI top tov (^avXoTdrov hrjjjbiovp'yov 

D a^iov eaofievov Xoyov. 

Nvp 8t] tovt avTo 7rpodvjbLr]T€Ov ISelv [xera rrjv 
So^av T779 TOi)V ScoBcKa fiepcov Biavofirj<;, to riva 
rpoTTOv [SrjXov 8r] rd 8co8eKa fxeprj twv ivTo<i 
avTOv 7rA.eta'Ta9 e^pvra hiavojjidii] ^ kuI rd rovroi<i 
^vveTrofiepa koI €k tovtcov yevvoofieva, fJ'ixP^ 
TO)v TCTTapd/covTa Te Kal TrevTaKia-x^iXlcov odev 
(f)paTpi,a<i Kal Brjp,ov^ koX Kcofias, kol 7rp6<i ye ra? 
rrdXepLiKd^ rd^ei^ re koX dywyd^, koX en vofxla- 
p,aTa Kal fierpa ^rjpd re Kal vypd Kal aradpA' 

E iravra ravra ep^p-erpd re Kal dXX.t]\oi'; (Tvp,(f)cova 
Set rov ye vop,ov raTreiv. ■Trp6<; Be rovToi<; ovB' 
eKelva (po^rjrea, BetaavTa rrjv Bo^acrav dv 
yiyveadai ap-iKpoXoyiav, dv tj,? TrpocrrdTT-r) iravra 
OTTOcr' dv CKevT] KTOiVTai, p^rjBev dfierpov avrcbv 
747 eav eivai, Ka) kolv5> Xoyw vop^iaavra 7rp6<i irdvra 
elvat XPV^^/^ovi ra? rcov dpidp,Siv Bi.avop,d^ Kal 
7rocKtXa6i<i, oaa re avrol iv eavrol^ TroLKiWovTai 
Kal oaa iv p,rJK€(Ti Kal iv ^dOeai iroiKiXp^aTa, Kal 
Br] Kal iv (f)d6yyoi^ Kal Kiv^aeai Tac<; re Kard Tr)v 
evdvTToptav t^? dvco Kal Kara) (^opd<i Kal rrj<i 
kvkXw 'jTepi(f)opd<;' tt/so? ydp ravra iravra Bel 
fiXeyjravTa tov ye vo/xodeTrjp wpoaTaTTeiv toI<{ 
TToXtrat? irdtriv et? Bvvap,iv TOVTOiv p,r} aTToXei- 

B ireadat T7]<i avvTd^e(o<i. irpof; Te ydp oiKOVop^tav 
Kal 77/30? TToXtTelav Kal 7rpo9 Td<i re^va? Trdcra^ 
ev ovBev ovtco Bvvap^tv e^et TraiBeiov p.d6r]p,a 
fieydXrjv, ft)9 rj Trepl T0v<i dpiOfj,ov<; BiaTpi^r]' to 
Be jxeyiaTov, oti tov vvaTd^ovTa Kal dp-aOr) (pvcrei 
iyeipei Kal evp^adi) Kal jxvrjp^ova Kal dy^lvovv 

^ [SriXov . . . Stavonas] I bracket {Sif\eiv Sei Hermann). 
386 



LAWS, BOOK V 

of any merit, must make it in all p>oints consistent 
with itself." 

So now we must endeavour to discern — after we 
have decided on our division into twelve parts — in 
what fashion the divisions that come next to these 
and are the offspring of these, up to the ultimate 
figure, 5,040, (determining as they do, the phratries 
and demes ^ and villages, as well as the military 
companies and platoons, and also the coinage-system, 
dry and liquid measures, and weights), — how, I say, all 
these numerations are to be fixed by the law so as to 
be of the right size and consistent one with another.* 
Moreover, he should not hesitate, through fear of 
what might appear to be peddling detail, to prescribe 
that, of all the utensils which the citizens may possess, 
none shall be allowed to be of undue size. He must 
recognise it as a universal rule that the divisions 
and variations of numbers are applicable to all 
purposes — both to their own arithmetical variations 
and to the geometrical variations of surfaces and 
solids, and also to those of sounds, and of motions, 
whether in a straight line up and down or circular.^ 
The lawgiver must keep all these in view and 
charge all the citizens to hold fast, so far as they 
can, to this organised numerical system. For in 
relation to economics, to jwlitics and to all the arts, 
no single branch of educational science possesses so 
great an influence as the study of numbers : its chief 
advantage is that it wakes up the man who is by 
nature drowsy and slow of wit, and makes him quick 

^ "Phratries" and "demes" were sub-divisions of the 
•' phyle" or tribe. 

* i.e. the laws of arithmetic apply also to plane and solid 
geometry, acoustics, and kinetics. 

387 



PLATO 

aTrepyd^eTai, irapa ttjv uutov (pvcrtv iirihthovTa 
Oeia Te')(yr). ravra Srj iravra, iav fiev dWois 
v6fiOL<i re Kol eTriTrjSev/jLacnv dcjjaipfJTai Tt? ttjv 
dveXevOepiap kol <f>i'\,o)(^pr)p,aTiav ck ra>v -ylrv^wv 

C Totv /neWoPTtov avrd lKavS)<i re koX ovqcrip.w; 
KT-qaeadai, Ka\a rd TraiSevfiara Kal tt pocrijKOvra 
ylyvoiT^ dv el Se firj, rrjv KoKovfiivrjv dv ri^ 
iravovpyiav dvTi ao<f)La^ dTrepyacrdpievo<i \ddoi, 
Kaddirep Alyv7rTiov<; Kal ^oivi>ca<i Kal iroWd 
erepa direipyaafxeva yevr) vvv ecrriv IBelv viro tj}? 
Twv aXkwv i7nTr]8eup,dT(ov Kal KTrjfiaTayv dve- 
\ev6epia^, eire rt? vofiodirr)<; avTot<; (f)avXo<i dv 
yevofiepoq i^eipydaaro rd TOiavra, etVe x^^^'^V 
TVXV T^poaTreaovaa, etre Kal (f)V(n<; dX\7] rif 

D TotavTT). Kal ydp, a) MeyiWe re Kal KXeipta, 
firjSe rovO^ 'f)p,d<i XavdaveTO) irepl tottcov, (w? 
(fivaei ^ elalv dWot rive^ Sia<f>€poi>r€<; dWfov 
TOTTfov 7rpo<i TO yevvdv dv0p(O7rov<; dfieivovj Kal 
■)(eipov<;' 61^ ovk evavria vofxoOerrjreov. oi fiev 
ye TTOV, Sid Trvev/xara iravrola Kal 8i' el\i](T€i<i 
dWoKOToi T elcrl Kal evalcnoi avrcov, ol Be St 
vSara, ol Se Kal 8i avTrjv rrjv €k t^? yr]<; 

E rpo(pi']i>, dva8i8ova-av ov fiovov rot? au)p,aaiv 
dfieivo) Kal 'X^eipay, Tal<i 8e y^v')(al<i ov^ rjTrov 
huvap,evr]v Trdvra ra Toiavra eniroielv, roincav 5' 
av irdvrcov fieyicrTov Sia<f)€poiev dv tottol 'X^(opa<;, 
ev ol^ deia rt<; eTTLTrvoia Kal Saifiovoyv X^^eif elev, 
Tou? del KaroiKc^ofievov^ iXe<p he-)(op,evoi Kal 
rovvavTiov. oD? ^ o 76 vovv ep^twt' vofioderrjf; 

1 <f>v(Tfi : OVK MSS. (bracketed by Ast, Schanz) 

2 061 Ast : oh MSS. 

1 Cp. Hep. 436 A. 
388 



LAWS, BOOK V 

to learn, mindful and sharp-witted, progressing 
beyond his natural capacity by art divine. All these 
subjects of education will prove fair and fitting, 
provided that you can remove illiberality and avarice, 
by means of other laws and institutions, from the 
souls of those who are to acquire them adequately 
and to profit by them ; otherwise you will find that 
you have unwittingly turned out a " sharper," as we 
call him, instead of a sage : examples of this we can 
see to-day in the effect produced on the Egyptians 
and Phoenicians^ and many other nations by the 
illiberal character of their property, and their other 
institutions, — whether these results are due to their 
having had a bad lawgiver, or to some adverse 
fortune that befell them, or else, possibly, to some 
natural disadvantage. For that, too, is a point, 
O Megillus and Clinias, which we must not fail to 
notice, — that some districts are naturally superior to 
others for the breeding of men of a good or bad 
type ; and we must not conflict with this natural 
difference in our legislation. Some districts are ill- 
conditioned or well-conditioned owing to a variety 
of winds or to sunshine, others owing to their waters, 
others owing simply to the produce of the soil, which 
offers produce either good or bad for their bodies, 
and equally able to effect similar results in their 
souls as well. Of all these, those districts would 
be by far the best which have a kind of heavenly 
breeze, and where the portions of land are under the 
care of daemons,^ so that they receive those that come 
from time to time to settle there either graciously 
or ungraciously. These districts the judicious law- 
giver will examine, so far as examination of such 

• Cp. 1451) ad Jin. 

389 



PLATO 

€maK€yfrd/jL€VO<;, o)? avOpwrrov olov t' €(tt\ crKoireiv 
TO, ToiavTa, ovTco ireipcpT av rcOevai rov'i v6fxov<;. 
Brj Kal <Tol TTOirjTeov, S) KXetvca' irpSiTOV 
rpeinkov iiri to, TOiavra fiiWovTi y€ KaroiKL^eiv 
Xc^pav- , , , , , 

ifioi T6 ovrm TTOirjTeov. 



390 



LAWS, BOOK V 

matters is possible for mere man ; and he will try 
to frame his laws accordingly. And you too, Clinias, 
must adopt the same course ; when you are pro- 
posing to colonize the country, you must attend to 
these matters first. 

CLIN. Your discourse, Stranger, is most excellent, 
and I must do as you advise. 



391 



751 A0. 'AXXa jxriv /neTci ye irdvTa ra vvv eiprjfieva 
a')(e^ov av dp^cov elev aoL Karaardaeit; t^ noXei. 

KA. "^X^'' y^P ^^^ OUTG)?. 

A0. Avo eiSt) ravra irepl TroXtreia? kog^iov 
yiyvofxeva Ti'7%ai'€i, irpcoTov fiev Karaa-rdaei'i 
ap^MV re Kai dp^ovTcov, ocra^ re avrd^i elvat Set 
Kal rpoTTov ovriva Ka0iaTa/xeva<i' eTreira ovtco 
Bfj TOL"? v6fiov<; rai<; dpxcti'i eKaarai^ dirohoTeov, 
B ov(nivd<i re av Kal 6aov<; /cal oiov^ TrpocrfJKOu 
av €Kd<7Tai<; etrj. a/xiKpov Se iTria-xovTa tt/jo 
T»}? alpea-eco^ eiirco/xev TrpoarJKOVTd Tiva \6yov 
irepX avTri<i pTjdrjvai. 

KA. Tiva Srj TOVTOV ; 

A0. Tovhe. iravTi ttov hifKov to toioutov, oti 
fieydXov tt}^ vop,o6eaia<i ovto^ epyov, tco ^ iroXiv 
ev irapeaKevaarpevqv dp')(^d<i dveTmrjheiovi eVt- 
arrjaai rol<{ ev K€ip,€voi<i v6p,oi^, ov fiovov ovhev 
irXeov ev redevTwv, ovh^ on yiXco'i av 7rdp,TTo\v<{ 
C ^vp,^aivoL, (TX^Bov Se ^Xd^at Kal Xoo^ai ttoXv 
p-eyiaTav ral<i iroXecn yiyvoivT av ef avrSiv. 

KA. riw? yap ov ; 

A0. Tovro Toivvv vo^crcofiev crot irepl tj}? vvv, 
at ^iXe, TToXiTeiaf re Kal rroXedx; ^vfi^Saivov 
opas' yap on Trpayrov p,ev hel rov<; 6pda)<; lovra^ 
eirl rd<i rS)v dpx^v 8vvdp,€(,<; fidaavov iKavrjv 
avrov<; re Kal yevo<; eKdcrnov €k iraihoyv fiexpt 

^ T^ Schramm, Schanz: rod MSS. 



BOOK VI 

ATH. Well then, after all that has now been 
said, jou will next come, I suppose, to the task of 
appointing magistrates for your State. 

CLIN. That is so. 

ATH. In this there are two branches of civic 
organisation involved, — first, the appointment of 
magistracies and magistrates, with the fixing of the 
right number required and the proper method of 
appointment ; and next the assignment to each 
magistracy of such and so many laws as are in each 
case appropriate.^ But before we make our selection, 
let us pause for a moment, and make a statement 
concerning it of a pertinent kind. 

CLIN. What statement is that ? 

ATH. It is this : — It is a fact clear to everyone 
that, the work of legislation being a great one, the 
placing of unfit officers in charge of well-framed 
laws in a well-equipped State not only robs those 
laws of all their value and gives rise to widespread 
ridicule, but is likely also to prove the most fertile 
source of damage and danger in such States. 

CLIN. Undoubtedly. 

ATH. Let us then, my friend, mark this result in 
dealing now with your polity and State. Vou see 
that it is necessary, in the first place, that those who 
rightly undertake official functions should in every 
case have been fully tested — both themselves and 
their families — from their earliest years up to the 

» Cp. 735 A. 

393 



PLATO 

T^? aipeaeo)^ elvai hehwKoraf;, eireira av tou? 
fjiiWovra'i alp/jaeadai Tedpd<^6ai [re] ^ ev rjdeai 
D vofMcop €v 7r€7rai8ev/x6Vov<; 7rp6<i to 8ua)(^epaivovrd<i 
re Kal dirohey^oixevovq 6p6co<i Kpiveiv kuI utto- 
Kptvecv SvvaTov<i yiyvead at tov^ d^iov; eKarepoiv. 
ravra 8e ol vewcnl ^vv€Xt]Xv06t€<; ovt€<; re 
aX.\i]X(ov dyvcoTd, ert 8* d'nai8evToi., Trw? av 
TTore 8uvaivro dfie/xTTTcoii ra<i dp^a^ alpelaOai ; 
KA. Xx^^ov ovK av TTore. 

A0. AWa yap dycova 7rpo(f>da€i^ <j^a(Tlv'^ ^ 

ov iravv 8e')(,e<T0ai. Kal 8r] Kal crol tovto vvv 

Kai ifJLOt TTOtr/Teov, iirei'TTep crv fiev 8r) rrjv ttoXiv 

E vTTearr)^ ra> K.pjjrcov edvei TrpoOvfioyi; KarotKielv 

8eKaT0<; avT6<i, <w? (f^'pfi ^a vvv, iyw S" av aol 

752 ^uWrjy^eadai Kara rrjv trapovaav ^/xtv to, vvv 

p,vdo\.oyiav. ovkovv 8r) irov Xeycov ye av fxvOov 

uKecpaXov ckwv KaraXirroifMi,' TrXavMjJbevo^ yap 

av dirdvrr) TOiovTO<; oiv ap,op^o<i ^aivono. 

KA. "A/jtcrr' e'ipr]Ka<i, Si ^eve. 

A0. Ov fMovov ye, dXXd Kal 8pda(o Kara 

8vvap.LV OVTQ)<i. 

KA. Haw pikv ovv TTOLwp.ev yirep Kal Xeyop,ev. 

A©. Eicrrai ravr, av ^eo? ideXr) Kal yijpco^ 
iiriKpaTcop^ev ro ye roaovrov. 
B KA. 'A\X' €ik6<; ideXeiv. 

A0. EiVo? yap ovv. kiropuevoi, 8e avrw Xd- 
^(ofiev Kal r68e, 

KA. To TTolov ; 

^ [ts ] bracketed by Stallb. , Hermann. 

* <.(pa(rli'> added from Schol. on Crat. 421 D. 

^ Literally, "a contest does not at all admit excuses"; 
i.e. once engaged in it, you cannot draw back. 

394 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

time of their selection ; and, secondly, that those 
who are to be the selectors should have been reared 
in law-abiding habits, and be well trained for the 
task of rightly rejecting or accepting those candidates 
who deserve their approval or disapproval. Yet as 
regards this point, can we suppose that men who 
have but recently come together, with no know- 
ledge of one another and with no training, could 
ever possibly select their officials in a faultless 
manner ? 

ci.iN. It is practically impossible. 

ATM. Yet, " with the hand on the plough," as they 
say, "there is no looking back." ^ And so it must 
be now with you and me ; for you, as you tell me,^ 
have given your pledge to the Cretan nation that 
vou, with your nine colleagues, will devote yourstlf 
to the founding of that State ; and I, for my part, 
have promised to lend you aid in the course of our 
present imaginative sketch. And indeed I should 
be loth to leave our sketch headless ; ^ for it would 
look entirely shapeless if it wandered about in that 
guise. 

CLIN. I heartily approve of what you say. 
Stranger. 

ATH. And what is more, I shall act as I say to 
the best of my power. 

CLIN. By all means let us do as we say. 

ATH. It shall be done, if God will and if we can 
thus far master our old age. 

CLIN. Probably God will be willing. 

ATH. Probably he will ; and with him as leader 
let us observe this also — 

CLIN. What ? 

* 702 B, a • Cp. Gorg. 505 D. 

395 



PLATO 

A0. 'fi? dv8pelo)<{ /cal •7rapaK€Ki,v8vvev/jLip(i)<; 

iv T6) VVV T) TToX-f? rj^UV CtTTal KaTMKlCr/jbiurf. 

KA. Uepl tL ^XeTTcov kuI iroi yuaXiaTa avTO 
6"pr]Ka<i ra vvv ; 

A0. 'fl? €u/coX.G)9 Kol a<^6^a><i anelpoi^ dvSpdac 
vofjboOerovfiev, 07r&)9 Se^ovTUi irore tov^ vvv re- 
devra^ vofiov^. 8i)Xov Be to ye roaovrov, & 
KXetvCa, TravTi a^ehov Kol tm firj ttclvv ao(^&, 
C TO p^rj pa8i(o<i ye avTOV^ p,rj8eva^ TrpoaBe^eadat ^ 
KUT^ dp'^d'i, el 8e fieLveidv ^ tto)? roaovrov \p6vov, 
e«i)9 ol y€vadp.evoi 7rat8e<i roiv vopcov koI ^uvrpa- 
<f)€VT€<; 'iKavoif; ^vvijdei^ re avrol<i yevopevot rS)v 
dp')(aipe(Tt(ji)v rfi rroXei rrdar) Kotvayvrjcreiav yevo- 
pAvov ye p,r)v ov Xeyopev, etrrep rivl rpoira) Kal 
p.T])(^ai'T) yiyvoiro 6p6Si<i, rroWrjv eycoye da-(f)d- 
Xeiav olfiai xal perd rov rore "rrapovra 'X^povov 
dv yeveaQai rov p,€?vai rr}v iraiBayayyrjdelaav 
ovro) rroXiv. 
D KA. "E%6t yovv Xoyov. 

A0. ^I8(i)p,ev rolvvv tt/jo? rovro et irrj riva 
TTopov iKavov TTopi^oipev dv Kara rd8e. (pr)pX 
yap, S) KXetvla, J^vcoctlov^ 'X^privai r&v dXXmv 
8ia(f)ep6vro)<i Kprjrcov p,7) povov difioaLcoaaadai 
irepl rr]<i ^w/ja? f) vvv KaroiKL^erai, avvrovoof; S" 
eTTip,eXr)6rjvat rd<i 7rp(t)ra<; dpxd^ el<i 8vvap.Lv, 
OTTft)? dv arSicriv d><; aa^aXearara Ka\ dpiara. 
rd<i p,€v ovv dXXa<i kol ^pa^vTepov epyov, vop,o- 
E (f)vXaKa<i 8' vpilv * irpoorovi aipeladai dvayKaio- 
rarov drrda-r] aTTOvBrj. 

^ vpoffSe^effdat Stephens : trporrde^acTOat MSS. 
* fielyetav Madvig, Schanz : fiuvaiftev MSS. 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

ATH. How bold and adventurous is the fashion in 
which we shall now have founded this State of ours. 

CLIN. What is now specially in your mind, and 
what makes you say so ? 

ATH. The fact that we are legislating for in- 
experienced men ^nthout qualms or fears as to how 
they will accept the laws we have now enacted. 
Thus much at least is plain, Clinias, to almost ever>'- 
one — even to the meanest intelligence — that they 
will not readily accept any of those laws at the 
start ; but if those laws could remain unchanged 
until those who have imbibed them in infancy, 
and have been reared up in them and grown fully 
used to them, have taken part in elections to office 
in every department of State, — then, when this 
has been effected (if any means or method can be 
found to effect it rightly), we have, as I think, a 
strong security that, after this transitional period 
of disciplined adolescence, the State will remain firm. 

CLIN. It is certainly reasonable to suppose so. 

ATH. Let us then consider whether we might 
succeed in providing an adequate means to this end 
on the following lines. For I declare, Clinias, that 
you Cnosians, above all other Cretans, not only 
ought to deal in no perfunctory manner with the 
soil which you are now settling, but ought also to 
take the utmost care that the first officials are 
appointed in the best and most secure way possible. 
The selection of the rest of them will be a less 
serious task ; but it is imperatively necessary for 
you to choose your Law- wardens first with the utmost 
care. 

• 5' vfuv England : ay/iiv (or tiv rifuv) MSS. : S' tw rifuy Zar. ; 
5' hf^" Hermann. 

VOL. I. n 397 



PLATO 

KA. Tti^a ovv eVl tovtw iropov kuI \6yov 

dv€Vpt(TKOfl€V ; 

A0. TovSe. (PrifML, 0) TratSe? KpijTcov, y^prjvai 
KvaxTiov^ 8ia to irpea^eveiv tmv ttoWmv iroXeoov 
KOivfj fxera rS)v acptKopevcov et? t^v ^vvoLKrjaiv 
TauTTjv i^ avroov re Kal eKeivwv alpelaOai rpid- 
Kovra fxev Kal kind roix; 7rdvTa<;, evvea Be Kal 
BcKa CK Tcop iiroiKrjCTovrwv,^ TOv<i Be dWou<; i^ 
753 avTT)^ KvaxTOv. tovtov^; 8' oi Kvcoaioi rrj iroXei 
croi B6vT(ov, Kal avTov ere, ttoXIttjv elvai Tavrr)<; 
Trj<i diroiKLa'i Kai eva Tbiv OKTWKaiBeKa, 7r€LaavTe<i 
?; Tivi ^ ixerpia Bvvdfiei ficaadfievoi. 

KA. Tt Bfjra ov Kal av re Kal 6 M.iyiWo'i, & 
^eve, €KOivo)vr]aar7]v i)plv Trj<; TroXtre/a? ; 

A0. Meya fxev, o) KXeivia, ^povovcriv ai 
Adrjvai, /xeya Be Kal rj 'S^TrdpTrj, koI fxaKpdv 
dvoiKovaiv eKdrepai' aol Be Kara irdvTa ijx- 
p,€Xw<i e%et Kal TOi<i dWois oiKccrrai^; Kara ravrd, 
B Mcnrep ra irepl avv vvv Xeyopieva. &>? fiev ovv 
jei'oiT av eirieLKeaTara ck tcov vTrap^ovrtov rjiuv 
rd vvv, eipijadco' 7rpoe\06vro<; Be -^povov Kal fxeivd- 
ar]<i T?}9 "rroXnela^ aipecn^ avTCov ecTTco roidBe Tt?" 
Travra fiev kolvcovovvtcov T779 tmv dp^ovrayv alpe- 
aeco'i OTToaonrep av oirXa 'nriTLKd rj ire^iKa Tid&v- 
rai Kal TroXe/iiov KeKOivcovrjKcoaiv ev rat? a<^eTepai<i 
avroiv T779 rjXtKia<i Bvvdp,ear TroielcrOai Be rr)v 
aipecnv ev lepu) oirep dv rj 7roXi<; rjyfJTai TifiicoTa- 
C Tov, (f>epeiv B' errl tov tov Oeov ^wfiov eKacrrov 
€t9 TTivdKiov ypdyjfavra Tovvop,a mar pod ev Kal 
<f)vXij<i Kal Brjfiov OTTodev dv Brj/moTeurjrac, trapey- 



* iiroiKTiffSvTvy Stephens : iiroiK-qcravTwy MSS. 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

CLIN. What means can we find for this, or what 
rule? 

ATH. This : I assert, O ye sons of Crete, that, 
since the Cnosians take precedence over most of the 
Cretan cities, they should combine with those who 
have come into this community to select thirty- 
seven persons in all from their own number and the 
community — nineteen from the latter body, and the 
rest from Cnosus itself; and those men the Cnosians 
should make over to your State, and they should 
make you in person a citizen of this colony and one 
of the eighteen — using persuasion or, possibly, a 
reasonable degree of compulsion. 

CLIN. Why, jiray, have not you also. Stranger, 
and Megillus lent us a hand in our constitution } 

ATH. Athens is haughty, Clinias, and .Sparta also 
is haughty, and both are far distant : but for you 
this course is in all respects proper, as it is likewise 
for the rest of the founders of the colony, to whom 
also our recent remarks about you apply. Let us, 
then, assume that this would be the most equitable 
arrangement under the conditions at present exist- 
ing. Later on, if the constitution still remains, the 
selection of officials shall take place as follows : — • 
In the selection of officials all men shall take part 
who carry arms, as horse-soldiers or foot-soldiers, 
or who have served in war so far as their age 
and ability allowed. They shall make the selection 
in that shrine which the State shall deem the most 
sacred ; and each man shall bring to the altar of the 
god, written on a tablet, the name of his nominee, 
with his father's name and that of his tribe and of 
the deme he belongs to, and beside these he shall 

' § Tivi Schanz : t) rij MSS. 

399 



PLATO 

ypclffteiv Be Kal to aurov Kara ravra ovTco<i ovofia. 
r& /SovXofievw S' ef ecrro) r(OV ircvaKicov o ri irep av 
<f>ai'p']Tai. fir) Kara vovv avTot 'ye'ypajjLfievov ave- 
XovTa €i<; dyopav delvai /jlt) eXarrov TpiaKovTa 
rj/jL€p6!)V' ra Se tmv TrivaKLcov KpiOevra iv TrpcaroL^ 
fiexpt Tpiafcoaccov hel^ai Tov<i dpxovTa^ ISetv 
D ndarj rfj TroXec, rrjv Be iroXiv a}aavTQ}<; €k tovtcov 
(pepecu irdXiv ov av eicaaTo<; ^ovX-qrai, Tou<i Be 
TO Bevrepov i^ aiirwv 7rpoKpi6ipTa<i eKarov Bei^ai 
TToXiv diraai. to Be Tplrov ^epeTO) fiev ex toov 
etcarov 6 ^ovXrjdeU ov av ^ovXijTai, Bid to/jllcov 
Tropev6p.evo<i' eirTa Be Kal TpiaKOVTa, ol<; av irXel- 
arat yivcovTai -^ijcfyoi, KpivavTet dirocfyrjvdvTCOv 
dp-)(0VTa<i. 
E Tt'i^e? ovv, Si KXeivia koX ^leyiXXe, irdvTa 
rjfilv Tain iv rfj iroXei KaraaTijaovai tmv 
dp')(oiV T€ Trepi Kal BoKLfiaatwv avrtav ; dpa 
evvoovfiev a>9 ra'i'i irpcorov ovrco Kara^evyvv p,evat<i 
TToXeaiv dvdjKrj fxev elvai Ttvwi, ocrive<; Be elev 
dv irpo iracrcov tcov dp^cjv yeyovoTe^; ovk eariv 
<^lBetv'^ ^ ; Bee firjv dfi(b<; ye tto)?, Kal Tavra ov 
(l)avXov<i dXX OTi fidXicTTa aKpov^. dp'^r) yap 
XeyeTat fiev TJ/xiav TravTo<i \ev raU 7Tapoi/jLLai<;] ^ 
epyov, Kal to ye KaX(o<; dp^aaOai rrdvre^ eyKco- 
/j,id^o/j.ev eKdaTOTe' to S' eVrt re, o)? ifjLol (jiai- 
verai, TrXeov rj to rjpLcrv, Kal ovBel<; avrb KaXw^ 
754 yevofievov AyKeKtujiiaKev iKava)^. 

1 <lSe7v> I add (H. Richards adds dirflv). 

* [if rah irapoi/xiais] bracketed by Naber, England. 

400 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

write also his own name in like manner. Any man 
who chooses shail be permitted to remove any tablet 
which seems to him to be improperly written, and 
to place it in the market-place for not less than 
thirty days. The officials shall publicly exhibit, for 
all the State to see, those of the tablets that are 
adjudged to come first, to the number of 300; and 
all the citizens shall vote again in like manner, each 
for whomsoever of these he wishes. Of these, the 
officials shall again exhibit publicly the names of 
those who are adjudged first, up to the number of 
100. The third time, he that wishes shall vote for 
whomsoever he wishes out of the hundred, passing 
between slain victims ^ as he does so : then they 
shall test the thirty-seven men who have secured 
most votes, and declare them to be magistrates. 

Who, then, are the men, O Clinias and Megillus, 
who shall establish in our State all these regulations 
concerning magisterial offices and tests .'' We per- 
ceive (do we not.^) that for States that are thu? 
getting into harness for the first time some such 
persons there must necessarily be ; but who they 
can be, before any officials exist, it is impossible to 
see. Yet somehow or other they must be there — 
and men, too, of no mean quality, but of the highest 
quality possible. For, as the saying goes, " well 
begun is half done," ^ and every man alwavs com- 
mends a good beginning ; but it is truly, as I think, 
something more than the half, and no man has ever 
yet commended as it deserves a beginning that is 
well made. 

* An ancient method of solemnly ratifying an agreement : 
cp. Genesis 15. 9 fif. 

* Literally, " the beginning ia the half of every work." 

401 



PLATO 

KA. ^OpOoTara \€yei<;. 

Ae. M77 roivvv 'yiyvcocrKovre^ ye TrapMfiev avro 
apprjTov, fiTjSev 8iaaa(f)r]aavTe<; rj/j.iv avTol^ riva 
earai rpoirov, iyo) fikv ovv ovSafico^; eviropSi 
ttXijv ye ei'o? eiireiv irpo^ to wapov avayKuiov 
Kcu ^v/j.(f>€povTO<i \6yov. 

KA. Ttt'o? 81] ; 

A0. 't>r)fu TavTT] rfj iroXei, fjv ocKL^eiv /xeX- 
\ofiev, OLOv irarepa koI [irjTepa ovk elvai ttXtjv 
" TTjv KaroiKL^ovaav avrrjv iroXiv, ovk ayvooiv 
on TToWai roiv KaroiKiadeiawv 8id(f)opoi rat? 
xaTOiKKrdaaif} 7roXXa/ct? eviai yeyova&i re koX 
eaovrai. vvv p.7)v iv to) Trapovri, Kaddirep Tral<i, 
€t KUL TTOTe fieXXei Bid(f)opo<i elvai rot? yevvrjaaacv, 
ev ye rfj irapoiKTr] iraiheia^ cnropia arepyet re koX 
arepyerat viro royv yevvqadvTwv, koX ^evyatv del 
TTpa Tovf [oiAcetoi'?] ^ dvayKaiovi fu,6vov<; evpicrKei 
^Vfip,d')(ov<i' a 8r} vvv (jirjfil KvcocTLOit 8id ttjv 
eirifieXeiav Trpo? Tr]v veav iroXiv koX rfj via 7r/309 
C Kvcoaov vTrdp^eiv eToifiwi yeyovora. Xeyco 8e 
KaOdrrep elirov vvv Br'], St? yap to ye kuXov prjdev 
ovhev ^Xdirrei, YLvwcriovi Seiv e7ri/jLeXr]drjvai irdv- 
Tcov TovTcop Koivij, TrpoaeXofMevovi tcov eh Trjv 
dnTOLKLav d(f>iKOfi€va)v tov^ irpecr^vTdrov'i tc koI 
dpicrrov<i et9 Svvafitv eXofievov<i /jlt} eXarrov 
eKarov dvSpcov kuI avrcov Kvcocrlcov earwcrav 
eKUTOv erepot. tovtov^ he eXOovra^ ^rjpX Selv 

^ [oiKfiovi] 1 bracket. 

1 752 D. 
402 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

CLIN. Very true. 

ATH. Let us not then wittingly leave this first 
step unmentioned, nor fail to make it quite clear to 
ourselves how it is to be brought about. I, however, 
am by no means fertile in resource, save for one 
statement which, in view of the present situation, 
it is both necessary and useful to make. 

CLIN. What statement is that ? 

ATH. I assert that the State for whose settlement 
we are planning has nobody in the way of parents 
except that State which is founding it, though I 
am quite aware that many of the colony-States have 
been, and will be — some of them often — at feud ^\-ith 
those which founded them. But now, on the present 
occasion, just as a child in the present helplessness 
of childhood — in spite of the likelihood of his being 
at enmity with his parents at some future date — • 
loves his parents and is loved by them, and always 
flies for help to his kindred and finds in them, and 
them alone, his allies,— so now, as I assert, this 
relationship exists ready-made for the Cnosians 
towards the young State, owing to their care for 
it, and for the young State towards the Cnosians. 
I state once more, as I stated just now,^ — for there 
is no harm in duplicating a good statement — that 
the Cnosians must take a share in caring for all 
these matters, choosing out not less than 100 men 
of those who have come into the colony, the oldest 
and best of them they are able to select; and of 
the Cnosians themselves let there be another 
hundred. This joint body^ must, I say, go to the 

^ This body of 200 is to be appointed, as a temporary 
expedient, to give the State a start by selecting its first 
necessary officials. 

403 



PLATO 

€19 Tfjv Katvrjv TToXcv (TvveinfieXridrjvai oircof ai 
D re ap')(a\ KaTacnSiat Kara vojjLOVi Karaaraaai 
re ^OKt,/xaaO(0(Ti,' yevofievcou 8e tovtwv rrjv fiev 
K^vcoaov T0U9 KvaxTLOv^ OLKelv, rrju Se veav TTokiv 
avTT)v avTTjv Treipdcrdat (Tco^eiP re Koi evTVX^eiv. 
01 5e 8r) lyevofxevoi tmv eirra koX rptaKovra vvv 
re Kol et? tov eireira ^vfiiravra ')(^p6vov iirl rolaSe 
rjfuv yprjcrdwaav irpSyrov fiev (j)v\aKe<; earcoaav 
T&v voficov, eireira tmv ypa/jLpaTcov wv av €Kaaro<; 
airoypdyfrp toi? ap')(^ovat, to 7r\i}do<i t?}? avrtav 
E ovaCa^, irXrjv 6 fiev fieyiaTOV Ti/jLr]p,a ex(t>v T6t- 
rdpwv pvSiv, 6 8e ro Sevrepov rpiMv, 6 he rpiro*} 
hvelv fivalv, /jbvd<; 8e 6 Terapro?. eav Si ri<; 
erepov ^aivqTai ri irapa ra 'ye'^pap^p^eva KCKTr)- 
fi€Vo<;, 8r]p,6aiov fiev eaTut to toiovtov airav, Trpo^ 
TOVTQ) Se 8iKr]V vTrex^Tco tcS ^ovXofievw p,€7ievai 
firj KoX-rjv P'V^' eixovvfiov, aXA,' ala^pdv, eav 
aKi<JKr)Tat, 8td to KepSo<i r&v voficov Kara^povcov. 
aia'x^poKepheia'i ovv avrov ypaylrdfievo^ 6 ^ovXtj- 
Oel<; eTre^cTco r^ Slkt] ev auTot? rol^ vo/jLO(f)v\a^iv' 
iav 8' o ^evycov 6(f)\r], roiv koivcov KTrj/naTcov p,r} 
755 fiere-^eTco, SiapofMr) 8e orav rjj noXei yiyvrjrai Tf?, 
dfiocpo<i ecTTty TrXrjv ye tov KXrjpov, yeypd^dto 8e 
QxfiXrjKco';, «W9 av ^y, oirov 7ra9 o ^ouXofievo^ 
avTa dvayvcoaeTai. (mt) TrXiov 8e etKocriv eToiyv 
vofio<^v\a^ dp')(eTa>, ^epicrdco S' et? ttjv dp-)(r)v 
fiT) eXaTTov rj TrevT'^KOVTa yeyovoo^ eTwv e^rjKOV- 
TovTr)<; 8e ei'e;^^6t9 Sexa fiovov ttp^^eTO) eTrj, Kal 

KUTO, TOVTOV TOV XoyOV, OTTG)?, CtV Tf? TtXcOV 



1 See above, 752 E. 
404 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

new State and arrange in common that the magistrates 
be appointed according to the laws and be tested after 
appointment. WTien this has been done, then the 
Cnosians must dwell in Cnosus, and the young State 
must endeavour by its o>\'n efforts to secure for itself 
safety and success. As to the men who belong to the 
thirty and seven ,^ both now and for all future time, 
let us select them for the following purposes : First, 
they shall act as Wardens of the laws, and secondly as 
Keepers of the registers in which every man writes 
out for the officials the amount of his property, 
omitting four minae if he be of the highest property- 
class, three if he be of the second class, two if he 
be of the third, and one if he be of the fourth class. 
And siiould anyone be proved to possess anything 
else beyond what is registered, all such surplus shall 
be confiscated ; and in addition he shall be liable to be 
brought to trial by anyone who wishes to prosecute 
— a trial neither noble nor fair of name, if he be 
convicted of despising law because of lucre. So he 
that wishes shall charge him with profiteering, and 
prosecute him by law before the Law-wardens 
themselves; and if the defendant be convicted, he 
shall take no share of the public goods, and when- 
ever the State makes a distribution, he shall go 
portionless, save for his allotment, and he shall be 
registered as a convicted criminal, where anyone who 
chooses may read his sentence, as long as he lives, 
A Law-warden shall hold office for no more than 
twenty years, and he shall be voted into office when 
he is not under fifty years of age. If he is elected at 
the age of sixty, he shall hold office for ten years 
only : and by the same rule, the more he exceeds the 
minimum age, the shorter shall be his term of office ; 

405 



PLATO 

B virep/Sa^ €^8ofj,i]KOVTa ^rj, /jLrjKeri iv tovtoi^ toi<; 
dp')^ov(TC rrjv rrfKiKavTqv dpxv^ «? ap^cov Sca- 

VOr)07]TQ}. 

Ta p,€v ovv irepl tcov vo/xo(f>v\dKci)v tuvtu 
elprjcrOoi TrpoaTuyfiaTa rpla, irpolovrayp Se elf 
TOVfiirpocrde to)v vofieov eKacnof irpoard^ei rov- 
TOt9 Tot? dvSpdaiv oivrtvcov avTov<; Sec tt/jo? rot? 
vvv €lp7]fievoi<; TTpoa-eTrifieXelcrOar vvv 5' e^^? 
dXkoiv dp^Siv alpea-eio^; irepi Xiyotfiev dv. hel 
yap Bt) to, fierd ravra aTpaTTjyovf alpeladai, 

C Ka\ TOVTOL<i ei? TOP TTokefxov olov Tiva<i V7rr)pea'ia<; 
iTnrdp-)(^ov^ Kal <f>vXdp)(^ov^ koI Toi>v Tre^cov <f)vXa)v 
KOcrfiriTd<i rwv rd^ecov, oh Trpiirov dv etrj tovt 
avTO Toijvofia fidXicTTU, olov kul ol iroXXoX ra^i- 
dpxovf avTov<i iirovofid^ovaL. rovrcov St) arpaTt]- 
701/9 p,ev e'f auT?}? t^? TroXety? Tavrrj^; oi vofio- 
(pvXaKe^ irpo^aXXearOcov, alpeicrdwv 8' €k tuv irpo- 
^XrjdevTcov Trdvr€<i ol rov TroXefiov KOiva>vol yevo- 
fjLevol T€ iv Ttti? rjXiKiaL^ koI yiyvofxevoL eKdaroTe. 
idv Se Tt<f dpa SoKrj rivl tcov /jlt) TrpoBe^Xrjfiivcov 

D dfieiv(av elvai r&v irpo^XTjdevTcov riv6<i, eirovo- 
fidcra^ dv6* otov ovriva vpo^dXXerat, tovt avTO 
6fivv<i dvTiTTpo^aXXeado) tov cTepov oTTOTepo^ S' 
dv So^Tj BiaX€ipoTOvov/j,€vo<;, eU tijv aipecriv 
iyKpivicrdoi. rpet? Be, oh dv rj TrXeicrTrj %ef/)o- 
Tovia yiyvriTai, tovtov^ elvai aTpaTrjyoVi T€ kuI 
iiTifjieXTjTd'i TCOV icaTa iroXefMov, SoKifiaaOevTcov 
Kuddirep oi vop,o(f>vXaK€<;. Ta^cdpXov<i 8e avTolcrt 
irpo^aXXeadat, fiev tov<! alpeOevra^ <TTpaTr)yov<i 
406 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

so that if he lives beyond the age of seventy, he 
must no longer fancy that he can remain among these 
officials holding an office of such high importance. 
So, for the Law-wardens, let us state that these 
three duties are imposed on them, and as we pro- 
ceed wilh the laws, each fresh law will impose upon 
these men whatever additional duties they ought to 
be charged with beyond those now stated. And 
now we may go on to describe the selection of the 
other officials. Commanders must be selected next, 
and as subordinates to them, for purposes of war, 
hipparchs, phylarchs, and officers to marshal the 
ranks of the foot-phylae, — to whom the name of 
" taxiarchs," ^ which is in fact the very name which 
most men give to them, would be specially appropriate. 
Of these, commanders shall be nominated by the 
Law-wardens from among the members of our State 
only ; and from those nominated tlie selection shall 
be made by all who either are serving or have 
served in war, according to their several ages. And 
if anyone deems that someone of the men not 
nominated is better than one of those nominated, 
he shall state the name of his nominee and of the 
man whom he is to replace, and, taking the oath 
about the matter, he shall propose his substitute ; 
and whichever of the two is decided on by vote 
shall be included in the list for selection. And 
the three men, who have been appointed by the 
majority of votes to serve as commanders and con- 
trollers of military affairs, shall be tested as were 
the Law-wardens. The selected commanders shall 
nominate for themselves taxiarchs, twelve for each 

* i.e. "rank-leaders." 

407 



PLATO 

E SoiSeKa eKaaTTi cpvXf] [ra^iap)(^ov]-^ tt)p 5' dvTi- 
TTpo^oXrjv elvai, KaOaTrep t5)V aT parrjycov iyl- 
yvcTO, Trjv avrrjv koX Trepl rSiV ra^iapy^^oov koX T^f 
imx^iporoviav koX ttjv Kpiatv. rov he ^vWoyov 
TOVTov ev tS> irapovTi, Trplv TrpvTdv€i<; re koI 
^ov\r]v -ppijaOai, tov<; vofio<pv\aKa<i (TvWe^avTa<i 
eh ')((opiov 60? lepoirarov re Koi iKavcoraTov 
KaOicrat %&)/0t9 f^ev tov<; OTrXtra?, %ft)/)t9 Se tov<; 
tTTTrea?, rpiTov 5' e(p€^i]^ rovroL<i irdv oaov 
ifjLTToXefiLOV' ')(eipoTovovvru)V Be a-rpaTrjyov^ fiev 
[kol i7nTdpxov<i] ^ TTcivra, ra^i,dp-)(ov<; 8e ol tj)v 
756 da-nlha riOi/xevor ^v\dp-)(^ov^ he avTol avToi<; ^ 
irdv TO iTTTTiKov aipeCadco' -yjnXoJv he rj to^otcov rj 
Tivo<i dWov rcov e/j,Tro\€/jLicov rjye/jLova^: ol a-rpa- 
Trjyol eauTOi<; KaOicrrdpTcov. l'mrdp')(oyv hr) Kard- 
(na(TL<i dv rjpuv en Xolttt] yiyvoiTO. tovtov<; ovi 
Trpo^aWecrOcov fiev oiirep koI rov<; trr partly ov<i 
TrpovjBdWovTO, rrjv Be aipecriv xal ttjv avrnrpo- 
^oXrjv Tovrcov rr^v avrrjv y'lyveadai Kaddirep r) 
IMP arparrjywv eyiyveTO, 'x^eipoTOvei.TQ) Be to 

B iTTTTCKOv avTOvf ivavTiov opdyvTwv TOiv Tre^cov, Bvo 
Be ol<; dv TrXeicnrj '^^eiporovia yiyvrirai, tovtov^ 
riysfiova^ elvai irdvTcov tcov linrevovTwv. ra? Be 
dfM(pi(T^r)Ti]a€i<i TCOV x^i'POTOVicbv p-e^pt Bvocv elvai' 
TO Be TptTov edv dp,(f)icr^7)Tfj Tt<?, Bia'^rj^ii^eadai 
TOVTOV^ olairep Trj^ p^etpoTovta? p,eTpov eKdaToi,^ 
eKacTTov rjv. 

BouXr]v Be elvai fiev TpidKovTa BcoBeKdBa<;' e^ij- 
KOVTa Be Kal TpcaKoaioi yiyvoivTO dv irpeirovTe'i 



^ [To|(apx<'»'] bracketed by F. H. Dale. 

^ [(coi iTrirapxovs] bracketed by Stallb. , Schanz. 



408 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

tribe ; and here, in the case of the taxiarchs, just 
as in the case of the commanders, there shall be a 
right of counter-nomination, and a similar procedure 
of voting and testing. For the present — before that 
prj'taneis ^ and a Boule have been elected — this 
assembly shall be convened by the Law-wardens, 
and they shall seat it in the holiest and roomiest 
place available, the hoplites on one side, the horse- 
soldiers on another, and in the third place, next to 
these, all who belong to the military forces. All 
shall vote for the commanders, all who carry shields 
for the taxiarchs; all the cavalry shall elect for 
themselves phylarchs ; the commanders shall appoint 
for themselves captains of skirmishers, archers, or 
any other branch of service. The appointment ot 
hipparchs we have still remaining. They shall be 
nominated by the same persons who nominated the 
commanders, and the mode of selection and counter- 
nomination shall be the same in their case as in that 
of the commanders : the cavalry shall vote for them 
in full sight of the infantry, and the two who secure 
most votes shall be captains of all the cavalrymen. 
No more than two challenges of votes shall be 
allowed : if anyone makes a third challenge, it shall 
be decided by those who had charge of the count 
on the occasion in question. 

The Boule (or "Council") shall consist of thirty 
dozen — as the number 360 is well-adapted for the 

* i.e. members of a "prytany," or twelfth part of the 
Boule (or Council) : for the functions of these bodies, see 
758 B ff. 

• aiiTol airTo7s : ai tovtois MSS. : aurois Ast. 

409 



PLATO 

C rat? 8iavofiai<;' fieprj Se Siav€(,fuivra<; rerrapa 
[Kara ivevrjKovra rov dpiO/nov] ^ rovrwv, ef CKa- 
arov T(bv Ti/j^yifidTcov (pepeiv ivevijKOVTU ^ovXevrd<i- 
irpoiTov fiev €k tcov peyiarcov rcp,ri/jLdTQ}v diTavTa<; 
(f)€p€iv i^ dvdyK7j<;, tj ^r]p.iovcr6ai rov p,7] rrei- 
Oopevov rfi ho^dar) ^rjpia' eTreiodv S' eVe;^^a)<rt, rov- 
Tou? pev KaraarjprjvaadaL, rfj 8e varepaia (f>epeiv 
e/c roiv BevTepcov Tipripdrcov Kara ravra Kaddirep 
TTJ irpoadev, rpnrj h gk TOiv TpiToyv Tip,7]pdT(i)i> 
(f>ep€iv pep Tov ^ov\6p,€vov, iirdvayKei; Se eivac 

D Tot<? Tbiv rpicov Tipbrjpdrwv, to he rerapTov re Kal 
(rpiKporarov iXevdepov d^elaOat t^? l^i-jpia^ 09 
av auTcbv prj ^ovXrfTai <j>epeiv. TerdprT} 8e (f)epeiv 
pei' eK rov Terdprov Kal apiKpordrov Tcpr]paTO<i 
cbTravTa^, d^ijpiov 8' elvai rov e/c rov rerdprov 
Koi rpiTOv TtprjpaTO^, iav eveyKeip p.r) ^ovXrjTai' 
rov S' eK rov hevrepov koI Trpmrov prj <f>epovra 
^rjpiovaOai, rov pev ck rov hevrepov rpnrXaa-la 

E tT;? irpcarrj'i ^rjpta^;, rov 5' eK rov irpcorov rerpa- 
Trkaaia. irepirrrj he ripepa ra Karaarjpavdevra 
ovopara e^eveyxelv pev rov<i dpxovra<; ISecv irdai 
rol<i TToXirai,'^, c^epeiv S' eK rovrcov av irdvra 
civBpa rj ^TjpiovaOai rrj irpcarr] ^rip,La. oyhorjKOvra 
he Kal cKarov eK\e^avra<; u(f>' eKdcrrcov ro)v riprj- 
p,drQ)v, rov^ r)p,Laei<; rovrcov d'noK\rjp(i>aavra<i 
hoKipdaai, rovTOV<; h' elvai rov ivtavrov ySou- 
Xefra?. 

'H pev aipeai<i ovrco ytyvopevT] peaov av e^ot 
p,ovapxi'Kr](i Kal hr)poKpariKfj<; 7ToXtreLa<;, 17? del 
hei p^aeveiv rrjv rroXireiav hovXoi yap av Kal 

^ [Kara . . . apiB/xhi'] bracketed by England. 
410 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

sub-divisions : they shall be divided into four groups ; 
and 90 councillors shall be voted for from each of 
the property -classes.^ First, for councillors from 
the highest property-class all the citizens shall be 
compelled to vote, and whoever disobeys shall be 
fined with the fine decreed. When these have been 
voted for, their names shall be recorded. On the 
next day those from the second class shall be voted 
for, the procedure being similar to that on the first 
day. On the third day, for councillors from the 
third class anyone who chooses shall vote ; and the 
voting shall be compulsory for members of the first 
three classes, but those of the fourth and lowest 
class shall be let off the fine, in case any of them 
do not wish to vote. On the fourth day, for those 
from the fourth and lowest class all shall vote; and 
if any member of the third or fourth class does not 
wish to vote, he shall be let off the fine ; but any 
member of the first or second class who fails to vote 
shall be fined — three times the amount of the first 
fine in the case of a member of the second class, 
and four times in the case of one of the first class. 
On the fifth day the officials shall publish the names 
recorded for all the citizens to see ; and for these 
every man shall vote, or else be fined with the first 
fine; and when they have selected 180 from each 
of the classes, they shall choose out by lot one-half 
of this number, and test them ; and these shall be 
the Councillors for the year. 

The selection of officials that is thus made will 
form a mean between a monarchic constitution and 
a democratic ; and midway between these our con- 
stitution should always stand. For slaves will never 

» Cp. At. Pol. 1266»14 fif. 

411 



PLATO 

757 BeaTTorai ovk av irore <ykvoivTo ^ikoi, ovSe ev 
taacf Tt/iat? Siayopevofxevoi (f)av\oi koI crirovhaloi. 
T0Z9 "yap avi(Toi<i ra taa avicra yiyvoLT dv, el fir] 
rvy)(^(ivoi rov fiirpov. 8ia yap ap.(^oTepa ravra 
(TTaaecov al TroXtrelai TrXi-jpovvrai. 7ra\aio<; yap 
\6yo<i a\.r]Or)<i wi', ax? laoTijf; (f>i\oTr}Ta airepyd^e- 
rai, fidXa fiev 6p6o)<i e'iprjrai koI e/j,fi€X(i)<i' ^rt? 
5' icrri rrore la6Tr)<i r) tovto avro Svvufiivr], Sid 
TO /XT] cr<f)6Bpa (ra<pr]<i elvai a<f)68pa r]/LLd<; Siara- 
B pdriei. hvolv yap caoTrJTOiv ovaatv, oficovvfioiv 
fjiiv, €py(p 8e ei9 TroWd o-xeBov ivavrlaiv, rrjv fxev 
krepav ei? rd^ Tt/^a? irdcra TroXt? iKavr] irap- 
ayayeiv kuI Tra? vo/j,o0€ti]^, t)]v jxeTpto icn]v Kal 
araOpLfp Kal dpiOpifo, KXjjpw direvOvvuiv eh ra? 
Biavop,d<i avT7]V' rr]v Be dXrjdeardrrjv Kal dpi(TTi]v 
iaoTTjTa ovKerc pdBiov iravrl IBelv. Ato? ydp Bt] 
Kp'i(Ti<; ecrri, Kal rot? dvOpcoTToif; del apiKpd fiev 
eirapKel, irdv Be ocrov dv eirapKear] iroXeaiv rj Kal 
C lBioi)Tai<;, iravT dyaOd direpyd^erac' rm fiev ydp 
jxei^ovL ifkeiw, rat S' eXdrrovi afiiKporepa ve/iei, 
fierpia BiBouaa 7rpo<f ttjv avroiv ^vaiv eKarepa, 
Kal Br] Kal rt/xd^ pLei^oai p,ev tt/jo? dperrjv del 
ixei^ovf}, r]7rov<i ^ Be TovvavTiov e^ovcnv dpeTTj<; 
re Kal iraiBe'ia^, to irperrov eKarepoi<i aTrovifiei 
Kard \6yov. eart ydp Bt] ttov Kal to ttoXitikov 
r]filv del TOVT avro to BiKaiov ov Kal vvv r]p,d<i 
dpeyop.evov<i Bel Kal Trpo^ TavTi]v rrjV laorrjTa, co 

^ ?irTovs: To?s MSS., edd. (Stephens and Sclianz mark a 
lacuna after iraiSeias) 

1 Cp. Gorg. 508 A, B ; Ar. Pol. 1301^ 29 ff. ; Kth. K 1131''27, 
IISS** 30 ff. The "arithmetical" equality which merely 
counts heads aod treats till alike is here contrasted with 
412 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

be friends with masters, nor bad men with good, even 
when they occupy equal positions — for when equality 
is given to unequal things, the resultant will be un- 
equal, unless due measure is applied ; and it is 
because of these two conditions that political organisa- 
tions are filled with feuds. There is an old and 
true saying that "equality produces amity," which is 
right well and fitly spoken ; but what the equality is 
which is capable of doing this is a very troublesome 
question, since it is very far from being clear. For 
there are two kinds of equality ^ which, though identi- 
cal in name, are often almost opposites in their practical 
results. The one of these any State or lawgiver 
is competent to apply in the assignment of honours, 
— namely, the equality determined by measure, 
weight and number, — by simply employing the lot to 
i^ive even results in the distributions ; but the truest 
and best form of equality is not an easy thing for every- 
one to discern. It is the judgment of Zeus, and 
men it never assists save in small measure, but 
in so far as it does assist either States or individuals, 
it produces all things good ; for it dispenses more to 
the greater and less to the smaller, giving due 
measure to each according to nature ; and with re- 
gard to honours also, by granting the greater to 
those that are greater in goodness, and the less to 
those of the opposite character in respect of goodness 
and education, it assigns in proj)ortion what is fitting 
to each. Indeed, it is precisely this which constitutes 
for us " fKjlitical justice," which is the object we 
must strive for, Clinias ; this equality is what we 

that truer "proportional" equality which takes accouDt of 
human inequality, and on which "distributive justice" (as 
Aristotle terms it) is based : cp. also 744 C. 

4'3 



PLATO 

KXeiVLa, diro/SXeTrouTat rrjv vvv <f>vofM€vrjv kutoi- 
D kI^€iv TToXiv aXX.r]v re dv Trore rif oIkl^tj, 7rpo<; 
ravTo TovTo aKoirovfievov -^peoov vofioOerelv, aW' 
ou TTpo? 6\i'yov<; Tvpdvvov<i rj irpo'i eva tj /cat 
KpaTO<i 8t]p,ov Ti, 7r/309 Be to hiKaiov del' tovto 
S' earl to vvv Si] \eydev, to Kara (jivcriv taov 
avLcroif €Kd(TTOTe SoOev. dvajKulov ye firjv Ka\ 
rovToi<i Trapcovv/nlotal irore irpocr^pfjaaaOai, ttoXiv 
diraaav, el fieWec (TTdcrecov eavrfj p.r] irpoffKoi- 
vcovijaeiv Kard tl fiepo^' to <ydp e7rieiK€<; Koi 
E ^vyyv(op,ov rov reXeov Kal dKpt^ov<i irapd Slxrjv 
TTjv opOrjv ecrri Traparedpavpevov, orav y'lyvrfraf 
Bio Tft) toO kXrjpov law dvdyKr) Trpoay^prjaaadai 
Bv(TKo\ia<; tmv ttoXXcHv evexa, Oeov Kal dyadrjv 
rvxw *«* TOTe ev evxci^'i ^ttlkoXov p.evov<i drrop- 
dovv avTol^ ^ rov KXijpov tt/jo? to ^t/catoTaTOV. 
oura> Bt) ■^^prjareov dvayKaio)^ p,ev rotv laorrjrotv 
758 dp,(f)olv, o)? 8' OTf p,dXi(Tra err' oXiyiaroi^ t§ 
erepa, rfj rrj<i ruxv^ Beopevrj. 

Tavra ovrw Bid ravra, o) <^iXoi, dvayKalov 
rT)v pLeXXovaav crdo^eaOai Bpdv rroXtv. eTreiBr] 
Be vav'i re ev OaXdrrrj rrXeovaa <f)v\aKr]<; T)p,€pa<; 
Becrai Kal vvKro<i ae'i, TroXt? Te dxravroit €v 
KXvBayvi rcov dXXcov rroXewv Biayop^evrj Kal rravro- 
Barrdlcnv em^ovXal<i oiKel KivBvvevovaa aXia- 
KeaOai, Bel Brj Bi r}p,epa<i re el<i vvKra Kal €K 
vvKTO<i avvdrrreLV irpo^ •qp.epav dp^pvra^ dp)^ovai, 
B (f)povpovvrd<; re (f)povpov(Ti BiaBe')(pp.evov<i del Kal 
rrapaBtBovra^ p,i]Be7rore Xrjyecv. 7rX^(9o9 Be oi) 
Bvvarov 6^eco<; ovBerrore ouBev rovrcov rrpdrreiv, 
dvayKaiov Be rov<; pev rroXXovs rfov ^ovXevrcov 

' auToTi H. Richards : airovs MSS. 
414 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

must aim at, now that we are settling the State 
that is being planted. And whoever founds a State 
elsewhere at any time must make this same object 
the aim of his legislation, — not the advantage of a 
few tyrants, or of one, or of some form of democracy, 
but justice always ; and this consists in what we 
have just stated, namely, the natural equality given 
on each occasion to things unequal. None the less, 
it is necessary for every State at times to employ 
even this equality in a modified degree, if it is to 
avoid involving itself in intestine discord, in one 
section or another, — for the reasonable and consider- 
ate, wherever employed, is an infringement of the 
perfect and exact, as being contrary to strict justice ; 
for the same reason it is necessary to make use also 
of the equality of the lot, on account of the discontent 
of the masses, and in doing so to pray, calling upon 
God and Good Luck to guide for them the lot aright 
towards the highest justice. Thus it is that necessity 
compels us to employ both forms of equality ; but 
that form, which needs good luck, we should employ 
as seldom as possible. 

The State which means to survive must necessarily 
act thus, my friends, for the reasons we have stated. 
For just as a ship when sailing on the sea requires 
continual watchfulness both by night and day, so 
likewise a State, when it lives amidst the surge of 
surrounding States and is in danger of being en- 
trapped by all sorts of plots, requires to have officers 
linked up with officers from day to night and from 
night to day, and guardians succeeding guardians, 
and being succeeded in turn, without a break. But 
since a crowd of men is incapable of ever performing 
any of these duties smartly, the bulk of the Councillors 

415 



PLATO 

CTTt TO TrXelaTOi' rou ^povov idv tVt rot? avroiv 
ISioiai fi€vovTa<; €vOr)/xov€ia-Oat to. Kara ra? 
avrcov OLKr^aei^, ro he hcoheKarov /jL€po<; avrwv eVt 
ScoSeKa firjva<i v€t/xavra<; ev 60' evl Trapi^etv 
avrou<; <^vkaKa<;, lovti re rivi irodev dXXoOev etre 

C Kal i^ avT7J<; ri]<; 7r6\e&)9 eTol/j,co'; eirnv^elv, av 
re ayyeWeiv ^ovXyrai rtv idv r av rrwddveadai 
ri rSiv o)v irpoarjicei iroXei rrpo'i 'rr6Xei<i dXXa<i 
diroKpLvearOai re xal epcoryaacrav kripa<i diro- 
he^aadai ra? drroKpiaeL'i, Kal St) Kal rcov Kara 
TToXiv eKdarore vewrepLcrp^Mv ePCKa -rravroSaTTcop 
elioOorwv del yiyveaOai, ottco? av fxdXiara pev fj,i] 

D ylyvcovrai, yevofxevutv he on rd'^^iara aladop,evrj<i 
r7]<{ TToXeft)? ladfj ro yevop^evov hio ^vXXoycov re 
del hei rovro elvai ro TrpoKaO>jp.evov t^? 7roXe&)9 
Kvpiov Kal hiaXvueoiv rcov re Kara v6piov<; roiv re 
i^aL(f>vr}<; rrpocnnirrovaoiv rfj iroXei. ravra p,ev 
ovv irdvra ro hcoheKarov dv pbepo<i ri]^ /3ouX?)9 eiij 
rb hiaKoapiOvv, rd evhcKa dvairavopievov rov 
eviavrov p-epyy /coivfj he p,erd rSiv dXXcov dpx<>>v 
hel rd<i (f)vXaKd'i ravra^ ^vXdrreiv Kara iroXiv 
rovro rb nopiov r-^? ^ovXij^i del. 

Kai rd p,ev Kara rroXiv ovrco<; e^pvra p.erpico'i 

E dv eh] hiarerayp.eva' t% he dXXr]^ ^(wpa? irdarj^ 
ri^ eTTip^eXeia Kal ti? ra^t? ; ap' ovx rjviKa rrdaa 
p,ev 7) TToXc^, avpLTTaaa he rj %<w/9a Kara hcahcKa 
p^ept] hiavev€p,r]rai, rr]<; TroXeco^ avrrj<i ohcov Kal 
oiKrjO-ecov Kal oiKohopLioiv Kal Xi/xevMV Kal dyopd<; 
Kal Kpijvcov Kal hrj Kal rep,ev(bv Kal lepwv Kal 
rrdvrwv rcov roiovrrov eTTtp^eXijrd^ hei rivaf 
diroheheiy p^evov; elvat ; 

416 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

must necessarily be left to stay most of thel: time at 
their private business, to attend to their domestic 
affairs ; and we must assign a twelfth j)art of them 
to each of the twelve months, to furnish guards in 
rotation, so as promptly to meet any person coming 
either from somewhere abroad or from their own 
State, in case he desires to give information or to 
make enquiries about some matter of international 
importance ; and so as to make replies, and, when 
the State has asked questions, to receive the replies ; 
and above all, in view of the manifold innovations 
that are wont to occur constantly in States, to pre- 
vent if possible their occurrence, and in case they do 
occur, to ensure that the State may perceive and 
remedy the occurrence as quickly as possible. For 
these reasons, this presidential section of the State 
must always have the control of the summoning and 
dissolving of assemblies, both the regular legal assem- 
blies and those of an emergency character. Thus a 
twelfth part of the Council will be the body that 
manages all these matters, and each such part shall 
rest in turn for eleven-twelfths of the year : in com- 
mon with the rest of the officials, this twelfth section 
of the Council must keep its watch in the State over 
these matters continually. 

This disposition of affairs in the city will prove a 
reasonable arrangement. But what control are we 
to have, and what system, for all the rest of the 
country? Now that all the city and the whole 
country have each been divided ap into twelve parts, 
must not supervisors be appointed for the roads of 
the city itself, the dwellings, buildings, harbours, 
market, springs, and for the sacred glebes also and 
the temples, and all such things? 

417 



PLATO 

KA. n<w9 lya/a ov ; 
759 A0. Aeyco/x€P 8t) Tot9 f^ev lepol^ vecoKopov^ re 
teal lepeaf kol iepeia<i lelv 'yiyveadai' ohoiv he koX 
oIkoSo/jLimv ^Kol Koa-fjLov rov irepl ra TOiavra 
avdp(t)TT(ov re, Xva firj aSiKaxri, Kal rwv ahXcav 
ffrjpitov iv avTU) re rS) Trj<i TroXeto? irepi^oXw Kal 
TTpoaareitp, otto)? av ra irpoa-rjKovra TToKecrc 
yi'yvTjrat, eXeadai Set rpia /xep dp^ovrcov etSi], 
irepl fiev ro vvv Srj Xex^^v darvv6/j,ov<i eVoi/o- 
fid^ovra, ro Be Trepl d<yopd<i Koa/xoi' dyopav6/xov<;, 
iepoiv Be iepeat, ol^ p.ev eicri irdrpiaL lepooarvvai 
B Kol al<i, p,T) KLvelv el Be, olov ro irpiarov Karoi- 
Ki^o/xevot^ eiVo? ylyveaOai Trepl rd roiavra, rf 
firiBevl Tj riaiv 6Xiyoi<i [ol^] tjBij ^ KadearrJKOi, 
Karaarareov iepea<i re Kal lepeia<i vewKopovi 
ylyvecrdai Tot9 Oeol<i. rovrwv Br) irdvrwv rd fiev 
aiperd XPV> "^^ Be KXrjpoord iv rai<; Karacrrdcrecri 
ylyvecrdai, p.iyvvvra<i irpo^ ^iXiav dX\r]'Koc<i 
Brjfxov Kal ^irj Brjfxov iv eKaart) %&Jpa koI ttoXci, 
OTTco^ av fidXiara O/Movoeov ^ etij. rd fxev ovv rSyv 
C lepewv ^ rut dew iTrirpeTrovra avrw ro Kexcipi'O'P'^uov 
yiyveadat, KXrjpovv ovrco rjj Beta rv^D diroBi- 
Bovra, BoKCfid^eiv Be rov del Xay^dvovra irpcorov 
fiev oXoKXrjpov Kal yvrjatov, eireira a>? on [idXiara 
e/c Kadapevovacov olKrjcrecov, <^6vov Be dyvov Kal 
irdvrtov roiv Trepl rd roiavra eh rd Oeia d/iiap- 
ravofievcov avrov Kal Trarepa Kal firjrepa Kard 
ravrd /8eySfft)/coTa9. e« AeX(f>a)v Be XPV v6p.ov<i 

* [or?] ^Stj : oTr /i^ MSS. : 6\iyiffTots Stephens. 

* dfiov6Q)v England : dfiovoZv MSS. 
" Upeccv Stobaeus : iepuv MSS. 

418 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH. Let us state, then, that for the temples there 
must be temple-keepers and priests and priestesses ; 
and for roads and buildings and the due ordering 
thereof, and for men, and beasts too, to prevent 
their doing wrong, and to secure that the order 
proi)er to States is observed both within the city 
bounds and in the suburbs, we must select three kinds 
of officers : those who deal with the matters just 
mentioned we shall call "city- stewards," and those 
dealing with the ordering of the market, " market- 
stewards." Priests of temples, or priestesses, who 
hold hereditary priesthoods should not be disturbed ; 
but if, — as is likely to be the case in such matters 
with a people who are being organised for the first 
time, — few or none have them already established, 
then we must establish priests and priestesses to be 
temple-keepers for the gods. In establishing all 
these offices, we must make the appointments partly 
by election and partly by lot,^ mingling democratic 
with non-democratic methods, to secure mutual 
friendliness, in every rural and urban district, so 
that all may be as unanimous as possible.^ As to the 
priests, we shall entrust it to the god himself to 
ensure his own good pleasure, by committing their 
appointment to the divine chance of the lot ; but 
each person who gains the lot we shall test, first, as 
to whether he is sound and true-born, and secondly, 
as to whether he comes from houses that are as pure 
as possible, being himself clean from murder and all 
such offences against religion, and of parents that 
have lived by the same rule. They ought to bring 

1 Cp. Ar. Pol. 130O 19 S. 
• Cp. 738 DfF., 771 E £. 

419 



PLATO 

TTGpi TU Oela irdvra Ko/ncaafievovii nai Kara- 
<7T7]aavTa<i iir^ aurol'i i^7)yi]Ta^ rovroi^ ■)(^prj(Tdai. 

D Kar iviavTov he elvat koI firj fxaKporepov rrjv 
lepodcrvvrjv eKdarrjv, err) 8e /x^ kXarrov e^rjKovra 
rjfilv etrj yeyovMi; 6 /meWcov kuO^ tepov<; vofji,ov<i 
Trepl ra dela lKavoy<i d'yiaTevaeLV ravra Be Koi 
irepl TMv lepeicbv ecrrft) to. v6fiifA,a, rov'i Be 
i^rjyrjTU'i rpl<; (fiepeToxrav fiev at rerrape^ <^v\ai 
TerTapa<i efcaa-rou i^ avrCov, Tpet^ Be ol? ap 
TrXeiaTT) yevrjrai '\lrrj(l)o<; BoKLp^daavra^ evvea 
ire/jLTreiv el<i AeX<f)OVi dveXelv e^ eKaarrj^; Tpid8o<i 

E eva' rr)v Be BoKifxaaiav avrojv koi rov -x^povov 
rrjv rjXiKiav elvat Kaddirep tmv lepewv. ovtoi 
Be earcov e^rjyrjTal Bia ^iov rov Be ye Xnrovra 
iTpoatpeicrOuxTav al rerrape^ (f)v\ai, bdev av 
iKXcTrrj. Ta/J.ia<i Be Brj rSiv re lepwv ')(^prip.dTa>v 
eicdaroi<; rot<i iepol<; Kal refxevcov Koi Kapiroyv 
760 rovrwv koi fiicrdcocreoyv Kupiov<; alpelaOai fiev e/c 
Tcov ixeyiaTcov Tifirj/idTcov rpel<i ei? ra fieyiara 
lepd, Bvo S' 6t9 rh cr/JbiKporepa, Trpo? Be ra 
€fjLfieXe(TTaTa eva' ttjv Be aXpeaiv tovtwv kuI Trjv 
BoKLfxaaiav ylyveadai Kaddirep rj r&v arpaTTjyciyv 
eyiyvero. Kal ra fiev av Trepl ra lepa ravra 
yiyvecrOb). 

\\.(f)povprjrov Be Br} p^rjBev eU Bvva/xiu eareo. 
TToXeco? /xev ovv al (ppovpal irepi ravrrj ytyve- 
aOcoaav, arpar-qySiv e7np,eXov/j,ev(i)v Kal ra^iap^Mv 
Kal iTT'irdpXfi'V Kal (^vXdpxutv Kal rrpvrdvewv Kal 

B Br) Kal da-rvvo/jbcov Kal' dynpavoficov, oirorav 

^ i.e. official exponents of sacred law ; cp. 775 A, 828 B. 

* The 12 tribes are divided into 3 groups of 4 each : each 
group appoints 3, making 9 in all : the other 3 required 
420 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

from Delphi laws about all matters of religion, and 
appoint interpreters ^ thereof, and make use of those 
laws. Each priestly office should last for one year 
ai\d no longer ; and the person who is to officiate in 
sacred matters efficiently according to the laws of 
religion should be not less than sixty years old : and 
the same rules shall hold good also for priestesses. 
For the interpreters the tribes shall vote four at a 
time, by three votings, for four men, one from each 
tribe ; ^ and when the three men for whom most votes 
are cast have been tested, they shall send the other 
nine to Delphi for the oracle to select one from each 
triad ; and the rules as to their age and testing shall 
be the same as for the priests. These men shall 
hold office for life as interpreters ; and when one 
falls out, the four tribes ^ shall elect a substitute from 
the tribe he belonged to. As treasurers to con- 
trol the sacred funds in each of the temples, and 
the sacred glebes, with their produce and their rents, 
we mus" choose from the highest property-classes 
three men for the largest temples, two for the 
smaller, and one for the least extensive ; and the 
method of selecting ;ind testing these shall be the 
same as that adopted in the case of ihe commanders. 
Such shall be the regulations concerning matters of 
religion. 

Nothing, so far as possible, shall be left un- 
guarded. As regards the city, the task of guarding 
shall be in charge of the commanders, taxiarchs, 
hipparchs, phylarchs and prytaneis, and also of the 
city-stewards and market-stewards, wherever we 

to make up the full number (12) are selected by the Oracle 
from the 9 candidates next on the list. 
• i.e. the tribal group by which he was elected. 

421 



PLATO 

alpedevre^ rj^xlv Karaartaai rtva lKav(i><i- ttjv Se 
aWrjv -^(opav <f)vXdTT€iv iraaav Kara rdSe. 
owoeKa /u,ev i)ixlv >; X^P^ rrdaa eh Svva/xiv laa 
/xopia vevifiyjrai, (fyvXr) Se jxia tw ixopiw eKuaro) 
eTTLKXiipwdelcra [/car' eviavrov] ^ Trapey^^eTco Treme 
olov dypovofiov; re koI (f>povpdpxov<i,^ tovtoi^ S' 
eaTQ) KaraXe^aaOat Tr]<; avTOiv (f>vXri<i eKdcnfo 

C ScoSeKU [tmv irevTe] ^ eV rwv vicov, /xr) eXarrov 57 
irevre koI etKoatv err} yeyovorwi, firj irXelov he i) 
Tpid/covra. rovroi<i he hiaKXijpoyOijTo} rd fiopia 
T?}? '^copa<i Kara firjva exaaTa eKdaTotf, oVo)? av 
7ra<rr)<i tt)? ^j^copa? efiireLpoi re Koi emari'jp.ove'i 
yiyvoyvrai irdvre^. hvo S" erij rrjiJ dp^rjv kuI rrjv 
(f)povpav ylyveadai (bpovpol<i re koL dpyovcrtv. 
OTTOXi 6 av ro irpoyrov A,a^a)0"f ra fieprj, lrov<; rrj<; 
■X,d}pa<i TOTTOf?] * /j,eraXXdrrovra<; del rov e^rj^ 
roTTov eKuarov /j,r)vo<i riyeicrdac rov<; (ppovpdp'^ov'i 

D errX he^id kvkXw' to ^' eTrt he^id yiyveaOa) ro 
7rpo<i eo). •nepieXOovro'i he rov eviavrov rS> 
hevrepat erei, iva eo? irXeiaroi rS)v (f)povpcov firj 
fiovov epLTreipoi rr/? %(w/3a9 yiyvwvrai Kara fxiav 
oypav rov eviavrov, Trpo<i rfj %c6pa he dpa Kal t% 
a»/oa? exaarr]^ irept eKacrrov rov rorrov ro yiyvo- 
fievov ft)9 TrXeiaroi Kara/xdOcoaiv, 01 rore r/yov- 
fievoi irdXiv dcfyrjyeiadcoa-av eh rov evcovvp,ov del 

E ix€ra/3dXXovre<; roirov, eo)? dv ro hevrepov hi- 
e^eXdwaiv ero<i. ra> rpirro he dXXov<i dypov6fiov<i 
aipelaOai Kal cfypovpap^ovif [rov<; rrevre roiv 
hcoheKa eir i peXrjr d<i].^ 

'Ev he hrj raU hiarpi^aU ra> tottw eKaarw rrjv 

1 [kot' eviavThv] bracketed by England. 
* (ppovpdpxovt Enseb., Herm. : (pvAapxous MSS. 
422 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

have such officials properly selected and appointed. 
All the rest of the country must be guarded in 
the following manner : we have marked out the 
whole country as nearly as possible into twelve 
equal portions : to each portion one tribe shall be 
assigned by lot, and it shall provide five men to 
act as land-stewards and phrourarchs (" watch-cap- 
tains"); it shall be the duty of each of the Five to 
select twelve young men from his own tribe of an 
age neither under 25 nor over 30. To these groups 
of twelve the twelve portions of the country shall 
be assigned, one to each in rotation for a month 
at a time, so that all of them may gain experience 
and knowledge of all parts of the country. The 
period of office and of service for guards and officers 
shall be two years. From the portion in which 
they are stationed first by the lot they shall pass 
on month by month to the next district, under the 
leadership of the phrourarchs, in a direction from 
left to right, — and that will be from west to east. 
When the first year is completed, in order that 
as many as possible of the guards may not only 
become familiar with the country in one season of 
the year, but may also learn about what occurs in 
each several district at different seasons, their 
leaders shall lead them back again in the reverse 
direction, constantly changing their district, until 
they have completed their second year of service. 
For the third year they must elect other land- 
stewards and phrourarchs. 

During their periods of residence in each district 

' [tuv ■wfVTfl bracketed by F. H. Dale. 

* [tovs . . . -rivovs] bracketed by England. 

* [roiis . . . firiixf\rrTds] bracketed by Schanz. 

423 



PLATO 

errifieXeiav eivai TOtdvSe rivd' vpcorov fjuev o7rco<; 
€V€pK7)<; T) %c6pa 7rpo9 rovf iroXefiiov^ ore fjui\i<XTa 
earai, racppevovrd'i re oaa av tovtov Bip koI 
airoaKUTTTOVTa^ koX ivoiKoSo/Mijfiaatv ^ et? Svva- 
fiiv eipyovra^: roix; e-m'X^eipovvra^; oriovv rrjv 
761 '^(opav Kol ra Kr/jfiara KUKOvpyeiv, ')(^pco/n€vov^ 
8 viro^vyioi^ kol rol>i oiKeraif; rot? ev rat tottw 
eKaoTW Trpo<i ravra, ou SKeivcov Troiovvra^, eKei- 
voi^i eiriaTaTovvra^^ ra>v oIkclcov epycov avrwv 
apyiaii on fMaXicna eKXeyo/jLevovf. Sva^ara Be 
Bi) Trdvra iroieiv rol'i i-)(dpoi^, toU Be <pt,Xoi<; 
OTi fxaXiara ev^ara dvOpu)7roi<; re Kal viro- 
^vjLOi'i Kal ^oaKTJ/xaatv, oBcov re iTTifieXov/xevovi, 
OTTft)? ft)? Tj/iiepcoTaTai efcaarac 'yiyvcovTai, Kal t5>v 
eK Ato9 vBdrcov, iva rr)v ^(^copav /xr) KaKovpyfj, 
fidXXov 8' o)(f>eXf) peovra ex rcov vy^rfXSyv et? 

B Ta<i ev Totf opeai vrtTra? ocrac KoiXai, rd'i eKpod<; 
avTMV eipyopra^ olKoSo/xi]fiaaL re Kal ra^pev- 
IxacTiv, OTTW? av rd Trapd tov Aio? vSara Kara- 
Be^ofievai Kal irivovtrai, rot? viroKdrcodev dypot<; 
re Kal roTrotf; irdat vdfiara Kal Kpr]va<i iroiov- 
aau, Kal rov<; av'^p,ripordrov<i rorrovi TroXvvBpov; 
re Kal evvBpovi direpyd^ayvrar rd re Trrjyaia 
vBara, idv re Tf9 irorafio^ idv re Kal Kprjvrj 
jj, Kocr pL0vvre<i <^vrevfiaai re Kal oiKoBofirjp^aaiv 

C evirperrearepa Kal avvdyovre^ fieraXXeiai<i vd- 
fiara Trdvra dcpOova iroioycTiv vBpeia<i re Kad^ 
eKdaraq ra? a>pa<;, et ri ttov dXao^ -q reixevo<i 
rrepl ravra dveiuevov [jj],^ rd peufiara d<^ievre<i 
el<i avrd rd reav deSiv Upd Koaficocn. 7rama')(fj 

^ ivotKo'^ofj.-i]fxcuTiv Schneider : iv o'lKoSofiit/xaatv MSS. 
* [f,] bracketed by Schanz. 
424 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

their duties shall be as follows : first, in order to 
ensure that the country' shall be fenced as well as 
possible against enemies, they shall make channels 
wherever needed, and dig moats and build cross- 
walls, so as to keep out to the best of their power 
those who attempt in any way to damage the 
country and its wealth ; and for these purposes 
they shall make use of the beasts of burden and 
the servants in each district, employing the former 
and supervising the latter, and choosing always, 
so far as })Ossible, the times when these people 
are free from their own business. In all respects 
they must make movement as difficult as {>ossible 
for enemies, but for friends — whether men, mules 
or cattle — as easy as {wssible, by attending to 
the roads, that they all may become as level as 
{)ossible, and to the rain-waters, that they may 
benefit instead of injuring the country, as they 
How down from the heights into all the hollow 
vallevs in the mountains : they shall dam the out- 
flows of their flooded dales by means of walls and 
channels, so that by storing up or absorbing the 
rains from heaven, and by forming pools or springs in 
all the low-lying fields and districts, they may 
cause even the driest spots to be abundantly 
supplied with good water. As to spring-waters, 
be they streams or fountains, they shall beautify 
and embellish them bv means of plantations and 
buildings, and by connecting the pools by hewn 
tunnels they shall make them all abundant, and 
l»y using water-pipes they shall beautify at all 
seasons of the year any sacred glebe or grove that 
may be close at hand, by directing the streams 
right into the temples of the gods. And every- 

425 



PLATO 

Se ev Tol<i 70tovTot<i yvfjLvdcria 'x^prj KaraaKevd^eiv 
Tov<i veov<i avTOi<i re koI rot? yipova-i yepovrtKO. 
Xovrpa [depfMo] ^ Trape^ovrwi, vkrjv iraparidevra^ 
D aurjv \_Kal ^tjpdv] ^ d<^dovov, iir 6vtja€i Kafxvov- 
Twv re vocrot^ koX ttovoi^ rerpufieva yeQ)pyiKo2<; 
acofiara Sexo/J'ivov'i evfievo)<i larpov Bi^iv fir) 
Trdvv ao(pov ^eXriova (TV')(y(p. 

TaOra fiev ovv kol to, roiavTa irdvra k6(t/jlo<; re 
Kol axfjeXeia toi^ tottol^ ylyvoir av fMerd 7rai8id<; 
ov8a/XT) d-^^aplTOV aTTOvSt) Se irepl ravra rjSe earw. 
Toi)^ i^rjKOVTa CKaarov^ rov avTuyv tottov (pvXdr- 
reiv fir] fiovov iroXefiimv evexa dXXd koI tCov ^iXcov 
(^aaKovrwv elvai. yeiTovwv he /cal tmv dXXfov 
E iroXtrSiv rjv dXXo<; dXXov dStKrj, SovXof r) iXevde- 
po<;, SiKd^ovraf Tq> dScKeiadai <f)dcrKOVTC, rd fiev 
(TfitKpd avTOV^ rov^ frevre dpy^ovra^, rd 8e fiei^ova 
fierd rcbv 8(oSeKa [rov<; eTrraKatSeKa] ^ SiKd^eiv 
fiexpt rpicov fivcov, oca av erepo'? kreptp eTTikaXfj. 
hiKaarrjv he Kol dp^ovra avvnevSwov obheva 
hcxd^eiv KoX dp-^^eiv hel irXrjv rcov rb reXo^ emri- 
Oevrcov olov ^aaiXecov. Koi hrj kuI rov<; dypovo- 
fiovi T0UT0U9, idv v^pi^wai ri irepl toi)? o)V 
762 eTTifieXovvrai, irpoard^ei'i re Trpoardrrovret 
dvicrov^ koI em')(^eipovvre<i Xaft^dveiv re koI 
(pepetv ro)v ev rai? yeapylat'i firj iretaavTef, koi 
idv he')((ovrai ri KoXaKeia<; eveKa hiBovrcov rj [kuI 
8iKa<;] * a8i/c&)9 Biaveficoai, ral<; fiev daireiai'^ 
vireiKovre'; oveihrj (fyepeaOcoaav ev rrdar) rfj ttoXci, 
rcov he aXXcov dSiKrjfidrcov 6 rt av dSiKwai rov<; 

1 [Oepfxa] bracketed by Naber, England. 

* [kuI iTj/jav] I bracket. 

^ [tous eirraKuiSiKa] bracketed by Hug, Schanz. 

426 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

where in such spots the young men should erect 
gymnasia both for themselves and for the old men 
— providing warm baths for the old : they should 
keep there a plentiful supply of dry wood, and 
give a kindly welcome and a helping hand to sick 
folk and to those whose bodies are worn with the 
toils of husbandry — a welcome far better than a 
doctor who is none too skilful. 

They shall carry on these, and all similar operations, 
in the country districts, by way of ornament as well as 
use, and to furnish recreation also of no ungraceful 
kind. The serious duties in this department shall be 
as follows : — The Sixty must guard each their own dis- 
trict, not only because of enemies, but in view also 
of those who profess to be friends. And if one either 
of the foreign neighbours or of the citizens injures 
another citizen, be the culprit a slave or a freeman, 
the judges for the complainant shall be the Five 
officers themselves in petty cases, and the Five each 
with their twelve subordinates in more serious cases, 
where the damages claimed are up to three miiiae. 
No judge or official should hold office without being 
subject to an audit, excepting only those who, like 
kings, form a court of final appeal. So too with 
regard to these land-stewards : if they do any 
violence to those whom they supervise, by imposing 
unfair charges, or by trying to plunder some of their 
farm-stores without their consent, or if they take a 
gift intended as a bribe, or distribute goods unjustly 
— for yielding to seduction they shall be branded 
with disgrace throughout the whole State ; and in 
respect of all other wrongs they have committed 

* [kui 5i(fai] bracketed by England. 

427 



PLATO 

£V TO) TOTTft), TMV flixpt fivd^ iv T0t9 Ka)fllfjTat<i KOI 

yeLTOcriv virex^'T^^crav €K6vT€<i hiKa^i, tmv Se /xei- 
^ovMp eKOLCTTOTe dStKrj/jLaToyv rj koI twv eXaTTOvoiv, 

B eav fir) ^deXwaiv v-rre'xeiv 'nia-revovT€<i rw fiedi- 
(xraadai Kara firjva^; et? erepov aeX tottov ^euyov- 
T€<i uTTocpev^elaOai, tovtcov irepi Xajx^veiv fxev 
iv Tai<; Koival^ SiKai; top dSiKOv/uievov, eav 8' eXr], 
rrjv hnrXaaiav TTparTiaOo) rov viro^evyovra Kal 
fxr) ideXyjcravra vTroaxelv eKovia Tifioiptav. 

AiaiTaaOayv Be o'C re apxovre<i oi re dypovop.oc 
ra Bvo eri) roiovBe riva rpoirov. rrpoirov fiev 8t) 

C Ka6^ eKuarovi tow? tottou? elvai ^vaalria, iv ol? 
Koivfj rr}v 8i,airav Troirjreov drraatv 6 Be drro- 
<jvacnrr)ija<^ Kav rjvrivaovv -qfiepav rj vvKra diroKot- 
/jLTjOeh /jlt) TMV dpypvTOiv ra^dvrcov rj 7rdcn]<; tivo<; 
dvdjKiTi eTrnreaovar)^, idv drrocprjveocnv avrbv oi 
Trevre Kal ypdi^avTe<i Ococriv iv dyopa KaraXeXv- 
Kora TTjv (f}povpdv, ovetBr) re ixi^co rrjv TroXireiav 
G)9 7rpoBt.8ov<i TO eavrov pepo<;, KoXa^ecrdco re 
TrXrjyalt; viro rov avvrvyxdvovro^ KaX ideXovTO<i 

D KoXd^eiv drt/j,a>pj]Ta)<;. r&v Be apxovrwv avrwv 
edv Tt9 rt, Bpa roiovrov avr6<i, irrifieXelcrdai p,ev 
rov roiovrov rravra^ rot"? e^rjKovra ^pecoi', o Be 
aL(76opLevo<i re Kal rrvdopevo^ p,r} irre^icbv iv rot? 
avroi<; ivexeadco vop,oi<{ Kal rrXeiovi, rwv vecov 
^rjfiiovaOb}' rrepl ra? rwv vecov dpxd<i ■^rip,Q}a6Q) ^ 
7rdaa<i. rovrmv Be ol vop,o(pvXaK€<; iiriaKOTroi 
uKpi^elfi eartoaav, ottco^ rj purj ylyvTjrac rrjv dp^V^ 
r) yiyvop-eva rr)^ d^la<; BiKrjf; rvyxdvrj. 

* vrifuoffBti) Schanz : riTifiaffOa) MSS. 
428 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

ajraiiist people in the district, up to the value of one 
mina, they shall voluntarily submit to trial before 
the villagers and neighbours ; and should they on 
any occasion, in respect of either a greater or lesser 
wrong, refuse thus to submit, — trusting that by their 
moving on every month to a new district they will 
escape trial, — in such cases the injured party must 
institute proceedings at the public courts^ and if he 
win his suit, he shall exact the double penalty from 
the defendant who has absconded and refused to 
submit voluntarily to trial. 

The mode of life of the officers and land-stewards 
during their two years of service shall be of the follow- 
ing kind. First, in each of the districts there shall be 
common meals, at which all shall mess together. If a 
man absents himself by day, or by sleeping away at 
night, without orders from the officers or some urgent 
cause, and if the Five inform against him and post his 
name up in the market-place as guilty of deserting his 
watch, then he shall suffer degradation for being a 
traitor to his public duty, and whoever meets him and 
desires to punish him may give him a beating with 
impunity. And if any one of the officers themselves 
commits any such act, it will be proper for all the 
Sixty to keep an eye on him ; and if any of them 
notices or hears of such an act, but fails to prosecute, 
he shall be held guilty under the same laws, and 
shall be punished more severely than the young 
men ; he shall be entirely disqualified from holding 
posts of command over the young men. Over these 
matters the Law-wardens shall exercise most careful 
supervision, to prevent if possible their occurrence, 
and, Avhere they do occur, to ensure that they 
meet with the punishment they deserve. 

VOL. I. p 429 



PLATO 

E Aet 8t) TrdvT avhpa SiavoeiaOai irepl airavrayv 
avdpuiTTwv &)? 6 fxri hovXevcra^ oi>3' av hecnroTT}^ 
yevoiTo a^io<i eTraivov, kuI KaWoiiri^eadai y^^prj t& 
KaXo)<t SovXevaai fiaXXov rj rS> kuXco^ ap^ai, irpta- 
rov fi€V TOt? vofioa, ft)9 ravTTjv To2<i deolq ovaav 
BovXeCav, eireiT del rot? Trpea-^vrepois t€ koI evri- 
fjLw^ ^e^KOKocri rov^i viov<i. fiera he ravra Trj<i Ka6' 
rjp,epap BtaLrr)<; Set r?}? raireLvrjii koL dirvpov ^ 
'^/eyevjjievov elvai to, hvo cttj ravra top tcou 
dypovofiMV yeyovora. eTreiBdv yap Br) xara- 
763 Xeyoicriv oi BcoBeKU, ^vveXOovra /xerd tmv Trivre 
/SovXeveadcoaav &>? olovirep oiKeTai ov-y e^ovaiv 
avTOL<i dXXovi olKera<; re koX BovXov;, oiiB^ e'/c ra>v 
aXXoov yecapySiv re kol K(op,r)T(ov rot? eKelvcov eVt 
TU 'iBia xpwovrai VTTTjperyj/xara BcaK6voi<i, dXXd 
fxovov oaa eU rd Brj/xoaia- rd B' dXXa avrol 8i 
avTcov BiavorjdrjTaxTav co<; ^iwaopevoi Blukovovv- 
re? re koI BtaKovovfievot eavroc<i, Trpo? Be rovToi<; 
irdaav rr)v ■)((opav Bie^epevvciifievoi depou<; Kal 
B ;)(;«/ia)i/09 (tvv toI'; ottXoi^; (f)vXaKi]<; re /cal 
yvcopLcrecof evexa TrdvTcov del rwv tottcov. kivBv- 
vevei ydp ovBevbi; eXarrov fxdOrjfia elvat Bi dxpc- 
l3eLa<; eiTLcrraaOat 7rdvTa<i rrjv avrcov ^(^(apav' ov 
Br) X^P^^ Kwriyeaia Kal rrjv dXXijv Oijpav ov^, 
rjTTOv €7rtTJ]Beveiv Bel rov rj^covTa rj ri]<i dX\i]<; 
nBovrj'i dp,a Kal (i)(f)eX€i,a^ ri}? irepl rd roiaura 
yiyvofxevt]^ irdcri. rovrov<i ovv avrov<{ re Kal rb 
eTriTijBev/xa etre rt? Kpvirrov<i eXre dypovofiov^ 
eW 6 TL KaXS>v ;\^aty06t rovro Trpocrayopevoov, 

^ a-irvpov Apelt, England ; avSpov MSS. 



I 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

Now it is needful that every man should hold the 
view, regarding men in general, that the man who has 
not been a servant will never become a praiseworthy 
master, and that the right way to gain honour is 
by serving honourably rather than by ruling honour- 
ably — doing service first to the laws, since this is 
service to the gods, and, secondly, the young always 
serving the elder folk and those who have lived 
honourable lives. In the next place, he who is 
made a land-steward must have partaken of the daily 
rations, which are coarse and uncooked, during the 
two years of service. For whenever the Twelve have 
been chosen, being assembled together with the Five, 
they shall resolve that, acting like servants, they 
will keep no servants or slaves to wait on them- 
selves, nor will they employ any attendants belong- 
ing to the other farmers or villagers for their own 
private needs, but only for public requirements ; 
and in all other respects they shall determine to 
live a self-supporting life, acting as their own 
ministers and masters, and thoroughly exploring, 
moreover, the whole country both by summer and 
winter, under arms, for the purpose both of fencing 
and of learning each several district. For that all 
should have an accurate knowledge of their own 
country is a branch of learning that is probably 
second to none : so the young men ought to practise 
running with hounds and all other forms of hunting, 
as much for this reason as for the general enjoyment 
and benefit derived from such sports. With regard, 
then, to this branch of service — both the men 
themselves and their duties, whether we choose to 
call them secret-service men or land stewards or by 
any other name — every single man who means to 

431 



PLATO 

C Trpodv/jLWi TTa? avrjp el<{ hvvafxiv eTriTrjSeveTO), oaoi 
fieWovai Tr)v avrcov ttoXiv i/cavw (Tco^ecv. 

To Se fi€TCi rovro dp-x^ovrcov aipecretof: ayopa- 
I'Oficov Trepi koI dcrTvvo/xtov rjv tj/jlIv eirofievov. 
eirotvTO S' av dypov6fioL<i darvvop^oi Tp€l<i e^iJKOvra 
oval, rpixj) BcoSe/ca fiept] tt}? ttoXco)? 8iaXa06vT€<i, 
fiifiov/uevoi €K€lvov<i, T(ov T€ oSwv iinfieK.ovp^voi 
ro>v Kara to acnv KaX rStv €k t^? ^j^co/ja? Xe&)- 
(popcov ei9 TTjv ttoXlv del Terafiivcov Kal tcov oIkoSo- 

D fiiSiv, 'Iva Kara vofiov^ ylypcovTai Trdcrat, xal Brj 
Kol T(ou vSarcov, oiroa av avTol^ irefiTrtoai Kal 
irapahihoicnv ol <ppovpovvre<i rei^epaTrev/jLeva, ottoj? 
et? rd'i Kpi]va<i iKavd Kal Kadapa 'rropevopueva 
KoafMTJ T€ dfia Kal oi)(f>€Xfj tijv ttoXiv. Set St) Kal 
TovTOv<i Bvvarov<; re elvai Kal cr)(^oXd^ovTa<i rfav 
KOLvwv eiripieXeiadat' Sio irpo^aXXeado) fiev 7ra9 
dvr)p €K roiv peyiarayv TifiT)p,dTa)v darvvop-ov ov dv 
^ovXrjrai, Biax^iporovrjOevreov Be Kal dcj)iKop.evcov 

E et<? If oh av rrXeia-Tai yiyvoavTat,, roix; rpeU diro- 
KXrjpwadvTwv oI? rovroov iiripLeXe^' BoKtp^aaOivTe^ 
Be dp'xpvrwv Kara Tov<i redevra^ avroi<i v6p,ov^. 

'Ayopav6pov<i S" ef •>}9 rouroi? aipelaOai fiev e'/c tcoi. 
BevTepoyv Kal TrpcoTcov TiprjpaTcov Trevre, ra 3' dXXa 
avTMV yiyveadat, rrjv aipeaiv KaOdrrrep rj tmv darv- 
v6p,wv, BeKU eK r<av dXXwv ')(eLporovr]Oevra)v ^ roi)^ 
irevre diroKXrjpcocrai, Kal BoKipaadevra'i avrovt ap- 
')(^ovra<i diro^rjvai. ')(eLporoveira) Be 7rd<; iravra' o 

^ Xfiporovi)Ofvra>v : x«'P<Toi^e/»'Tos MSS. (cp. England, who 
brackets Scxa . . . w*o<pr)vcu) 

432 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

guard his own State efficiently shall do his duty 
zealously to the best of his power. 

The next step in our choice of officials is to ap- 
point market-stewards and city-stewards. After the 
land-stewards (sixty in number) will come the three 
city-stewards, who shall divide the twelve sections 
of the city into three parts, and shall copy the 
land stewards in having charge of the streets of the 
city and of the various roads that run into the city 
from the country, and of the buildings, to see that 
all these conform to the requirements of the law ; 
and they shall also have charge of all the water- 
supplies conveyed and passed on to them by the 
guards in good condition, to ensure that they shall 
be both pure and plentiful as they pour into the 
cisterns, and may thus both beautify and benefit 
the city. Thus it is needful that these men also 
should have both the ability and the leisure to 
attend to public affairs. Therefore for the office 
of city-steward every citizen shall nominate what- 
ever person he chooses from the highest property- 
class ; and when these have been voted on, and 
they have arrived at the six men for whom most 
votes have been cast, then those whose duty it is 
shall select the three by lot ; and after pwissing the 
scrutiny, these men shall execute the office according 
to the laws ordained for them. 

Next to these they must elect five market- 
stewards from the second and first property- 
classes : in all other respects the mode of their 
election shall be similar to that of the city- 
stewards ; from the ten candidates chosen by voting 
they shall select the five by lot, and after scrutiny 
declare them appointed. All sliall vote for every 

433 



PLATO 

764 Be fit) ^diXcov, iav elaayyeXOy tt/jo? roy? dp')(0VTa<;, 
^rjfiiovado} irevjrjKOvra SpaXM'Citfi irpo'i tw kukos 
elvai SoKCiv. trco 8' el'i eKKXrjcriav koI tov koivov 
^vXXoyop 6 ^ov\6fi€VO^, eTrdvayKe^ S' ecrro) to) 
Twv BevTcpcov Kal Trpcorcov Ti/xTjfiaTcov, hena ^paX' 
fjbal<i ^rffxiovfievqy iav fii] irapoiv e^erd^r^Tai rot? 
^vX\,6yoi<;. rpirfp 8e TifMtjfiaTi Kal Terdprm fir) 
€7rdvayK€<i, dXXa d^ijfjLio^ dcfieia-Oo), iav fi^ ri 
irapayyeiXcoaiv oi dpxovTe<i irdaiv e« rivo^ dvdy- 

B K'i]<i ^vvievai. tov<; 8e S-q dyopavofiov^ tov irepl 
TTjv dyopdv KOff/xov hiaTa^divra viro vofiiov 
<f>vXdTT€iv Kul lepoyv Kal Kpr)vo}v int/xeXeiaOac 
To)v Kar dyopdv, 07r&)9 fnjBev dSiKjj fjt,r]8ei<i, tov 
dBiKovvTa 8e KoXd^eiv, TrXrjyal^ fiev Kal Sea/xoi'i 
BovXov Kal ^ivov, idv S' i7ri')(,d>pt0'i ^v rt? irepl to, 
TOiavTa aKoafifj, fiixP'' H-^^ eKUTov hparxp-^v 
vofj,i<T/xaTo<i avTov<i elvai Kvplov<; SiaBiKd^ovTa'i, 
P'iXP'- ^^ BiTrXaaiov tovtou KOivfj /xeTo, dcrTvvofMoov 

C ^rjfiiovv 8tKd^ovTa<; tw dStKovvTi. to, uvto. Be 
Kal d(TTvv6fioi<; Icttg) ^rj/xtcofiaTd re Kat KoXa(rei<i 
iv T^ eavTOiv dpxfl> f^^XP^ P'^^ fivd^i avTOV^ ^rj- 
fii,ovvTa<;, Trjv BiTrXaaiav Be fxeTO, dyopavoficov. 

MovaiKrjq Be to pueTCL tovto Kal yvp,va(TTiKT)<; 
upxovTu^ KadiGTaadai Trpeirov av eirj, Sittov<; 
eKaTeptov, tovs fiev iraiBeia'i avTcov eveKa, tou? Be 
dycDVKTTiKrjf;. •7rai,Beia<i fiev fiovXcTat Xiyeiv o vo/jio<i 
yvfivacricov Kal BiBacr KaXeitov iTnp.eXrjTa<; koct/mov 

D Kal TraiBevcreo)<i a/xa Kal t^9 irepl TavTa em/jLeXeia^ 
Ttav <f>oiT7J<T€<ov re irepi koI olKi]ae(oV' dppevwv «al 
434 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

official : any man who refuses to do so, if reported 
to the officials, shall be fined fifty drachmae, besides 
being declared to be a bad citizen. Whoso wishes 
shall attend the Ecclesia and the public assembly ; 
and for members of the second and first property- 
classes attendance shall be compulsory, anyone who 
is found to be absent from the assemblies being fined 
ten drachmae ; but for a member of the third or 
fourth class it shall not be compulsory, and he shall 
escape without a fine, unless the officials for some 
urgent reason charge everyone to attend. The 
market-stewards must see to it that the market is 
conducted as appointed by law : they must supervise 
the temples and fountains in the market, to see that 
no one does any damage ; in case anyone does 
damage, if he be a slave or a stranger, they shall 
punish him with stripes and bonds, while if a native 
is guilty of such misconduct, they shall have power 
to inflict a fine up to a hundred drachmae of their 
own motion, and to fine a wrongdoer up to twice 
that amount, when acting in conjunction with 
the city-stewards. Similarly, the city-stewards shall 
have power of fining and punishing in their own 
sphere, fining up to a mina of their own motion, and 
up to twice that sum in conjunction with the market- 
stewards. 

It will be proper next to appoint officials for 
music and gymnastics, — two grades for each depart- 
ment, the one for education, the other for managing 
competitions. By education-officers the law means 
supervisors of gymnasia and schools, both in respect 
of their discipline and teaching and of the control 
of the attendances and accommodation both for girls 
and boys. By competition-officers it means umpires 

435 



PLATO 

BrfKeiwv KopSiv, a<ya)vla<i Se ev re Tol<i <yvfj,viKol<; koI 
irepl Tr]V fiovcrcKrjv adXodkra<i ad\TjTal<;, 8ittov<; 
av TOUTOV^ [nepl fiovcnKrjv /xev krepov;, irepi 
dycovlav 3' aWov^].^ dyavicTriKi]^ fiev ovv dv- 
OpcoTTcov re /cal ittttcov rov<; avrov^, fjbovaiKrj<; Se 
erepovi jxhv rovq irepl /xovatSlav re koI pufiririKriv, 

E olov payp-wBcbv Kol KiOapoiScov koI av\y]ra>v xal 
irdvrcov rwv roiovroov dOXoOira<; aiperov<; ^ irpeirov 
av €17] yiyveadai, rwv he irepl x^pcphiav aXkov^. 
rrpwrov Srj Trepl rrjv rcov ')(pp5)v TraiStdv TraiBcov re 
Kal dppevcov ^ kuI OrjXeicov Kopav ev op'^ijaeat xal 
rfi rd^ei rjj dirdcrr] yiyvo}ievy]v * /jbova-iKfj tou? 
dpxovTa<; aipeladai ttou %p€ft)V iKavo<} 8e eh 
dp-)((ov avroh, fir) eXarrov rerrapdKOvra yeyovoD^ 
765 irwv. i/cavo<i Se Kal rrepX fiovaSiav el<;, fir) eXar- 
rov Tj rpiuKovra yeyovoo^; erSiv, elcraywyev^ re elvai 
Kal rol<i dfxiXXoyfievoi^ rrjv SiaKpiaiv iKavw^ dno- 
Bi,Bov<i. rov Bt] 'x^opcov dpyovra Kal BiaOerrjpa 
alpeladai ^pr) roiovhe riva rpoirov. oaoi fiev 
(f)iXo^povM<; ecr'xrjKacn, Trepl rd roiavra, €t9 rov 
^vX\oyov traxxav, eTTt^rjpioi idv firj looaf rovrov 
he ol vojj,o(f)uXaK€<; Kpirai' roi<; 5' dXXoc;, idv p,^ 
^ouXtovrai, p,r]hev eirdvayKC^ earco. Kal rrjv 
Trpo^oXrjv hrj rov alpovp,evov €k rSiv ifnrecpcov 

B TTOLrjreov, ev re rfj hoKip,aaLa Kar'qyoprjp.a ev rovr 
earro) Kal dirrjyopyjp^a, r&v p.ev «t)9 aTreLpa o Xaywv, 
roiv h' eo? e/nireipo^' o? 8' av el? e« Trpox^iporovrf- 
devrcov hexa ^dxj] hoKip,acr6el<; rov eviavrov royv 
')(ppo)V dp'^erco Kara vopov. Kara ravrd he rovroi^ 

1 [iTfpl . . . &\\ovs'\ bracketed by England. 

' atperovs : krepovs MSS., edJ. (bracketed by Stallb.) 

^ i.^l)4v<cv : av^pSiv MSS., edd. 

436 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

for the competitors both in gymnastic and in music, 
these also being of two grades. For competitions 
there should be the same umpires both for men 
and for horses ; but in the case of music it will 
be proper to have separate umpires for solos and 
for mimetic performances, — \ mean, for instance, 
one set chosen for rhapsodists, harpers, flute-players, 
and all such musicians, and another set for choral 
performers. We ought to choose first the officials 
for the playful exercise of choirs of children and 
lads and girls in dances and all other regular 
methods of music ; and for these one officer suffices, 
and he must be not under forty years of age. And 
for solo performances one umpire, of not less than 
thirty years, is sufficient, to act as introducer ^ and 
to pass an adequate judgment upon the competitors. 
The officer and manager of the choirs they must 
appoint in some such way as the following. All those 
who are devoted to these subjects shall attend the 
assembly, and if they refuse to attend they shall be 
liable to a fine — a matter which the Law-wardens shall 
decide : any others who are unwilling to attend shall 
be subj ect to no compulsion. Every elector must make 
his nomination from the list of those who are 
experts : in the scrutiny, affirmation and negation 
shall be confined to one point only — on the one side, 
that the candidate is expert, on the other side, that 
he is not expert ; and whichever of the ten who 
come first on votes is elected after the scrutiny shall 
be the officer for the year in charge of the choirs 
according to law. In the same way as these thev 

* i.e. to take entries and assign places to the competitors. 

* yiyi'ofji.fVTiy England : yiyyofievjj MSS. 

437 



PLATO 

KUi TavTT) Xa'^atv tov eviavrov €K€cvov tcov a(f>iKO- 
fievcov elf Kpicrtv fiovathioyvreKal avvav\ioivap')(eroo, 

C [et? Tou? fcpiTa<i airoBiSov^: 6 Xa^ebi' t^j^ Kpiaiv]?- 
fiera 8e ravra %pe(wi' ayoiviaf ddXo6iTa<i aipeZ- 
crdai T^? irept ra yvfjLvdaia iTnrayv re kuI dvOpconcov 
€K TOiv TpiTcov T6 KahcTi Toiv BeuTepcov TifiTj/xdrcov. 
et<? 8e rrjv aipeaiv earco fiev i7rdvayK€<i rot? Tpicrl 
TTopeveaOai Tifirj/jbaa-i, to a puKporarov he d^rjfitov 
d(f)eL(r6oi. rpel^i 5' eaTtoaav ol \a')(^ovre<i, rSiv 
TrpoxeipoTOVTjdevTcov fikv eiKocri, Xaxovrcov he ix 
t5)v ecKocTL Tpiojv, Of? av icaX yjrfjcfjo^ tj tcov Sokl- 

D fiatovTwv SoKt/jbdarj. iav Be rt? aTroSo/ec/xacrdjj 
KuO' 7)vrivaovv dpxv'^ Xrj^iv kuI Kpiaiv, a\\ov<i 
dvuaipelaOai Kara tuvto, koI rrjv BoKifiacriav 
Q)(TavT(o<; avTOiv nrepi TroielaOat. 

AoiTTO^ Be dp')(^ciiv irepl rd Trpoeiprjfiiva tj/jlIv 
o T^<? TratSeia? e7rip€Xr}rr)<; 7rdat]<i OrjXeioov re 
Kai appevwv. el? fiev Bfj Kal 6 tovtcov ap^wv 
earcD Kara vofiov^, ctcov fiev yeyovco^ /xrj eXar- 
TOV T] 7revT7]KOvra, waiBoyv Be yvrja-icov traTrjp, 
fidXicTTa fiev vlecov Kal OvyaTepwv, ei Be fjurj, 

E Odrepa' Biavoijd qrco Be avro'; re 6 irpoKpideit 
xat, TTpOKpivtov 6}<i ovaav ravTtjv rrjV dp^rjp 
r(t)v ev rfi iroXet aKpordraiv ap^eov ttoXv fieyiarriv. 
iravTO'i yap Br) cf)VTOv r} irpooTr] ^Xdarrj KoXoj'i 
opfirjdelaa irpo'i dperrjv rrj^i avrov (pvaecof Kvptco- 
TaTt) T€Xo<i eiridelvat, to irpoa^opov, twv re aXXoiv 
<f>VTc!)v Kat TWV ^(ocov rip,epoiv Kal dypicov [Kal 
766 dvOpooTTcov^.^ dvOpcoTTO'; Be, W9 (pa/xev, 7]/jL€pov, 
ofiM^ p,y]v iraLBeia^ fiev 6p9r]<i tv)(ov Kal (f>va-e<i}<s 

^ [*iy . . . *fpi(r 11'] bracketed by Wagner, Scban^. ' 

' [kuI ivOpwirwv] 'jracketed by England. 

438 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

shall appoint the officer elected to preside for the 
year over those who enter for competitions in solos 
and joint performances on the Hute. Next it is 
proper to choose umpires for the athletic contests 
of horses and men from among the third and the 
second property-classes : this election it shall be 
compulsory for the first three classes to attend, but 
the lowest class shall be exempt from fines for non- 
attendance. Three shall be appointed : twenty 
having been first selected by show of hand, three 
out of the twenty shall be chosen by lot ; and they 
shall be subject also to the approval of the scrutineers. 
Should any candidate be disqualified in any voting 
or testing for office, they shall elect a substitute, and 
carry out the scrutiny by the same method as in the 
case of the original candidate. 

In the department we have been dealing with, 
we have still to appoint an officer who shall 
preside over the whole range of education of 
both boys and girls. For this purpose there 
shall be one officer legally appointed : he shall 
not be under fifty years of age, and shall be the 
father of legitimate children of either sex, or 
preferably of both sexes. Both the candidate that 
is put first, and the elector who puts him first, must 
be convinced that of the highest offices of State 
this is by far the most important. For in the case 
of every creature — plant or animal, tame ^ and wild 
alike — it is the first shoot, if it sprouts out well, that 
is most effective in bringing to its proper develop- 
ment the essential excellence of the creature in 
question. Man, as we affirm, is a tame creature : 
none the less, while he is wont to become an animal 

^ i.e. "domesticated ' animals, and "garden' plants. 

439 



PLATO 

evTvxov<; OeioTurov rj/xepcoraTov re ^wov ytyvetrOai 
<f)i\€i, fjLT) lKavoi<i he rj fir) /caX&i? rpa(f)€v aypicora- 
rov OTToaa (f)V€i yrj. wv ^v€fca ov hevrepov ov8e 
rrrapepyov 8el rT}v TralBcov Tpn(f)/jv rov vofiodirrjv 
eav ytyveadai,, TrpSirov 8e ap^acrdai, ^yoeojv tov 
fiiWovra avTcov eTripeXijaeadai «aXw? alpedrjvai, 
TOiv iv Tj] TToXei 09 av apicno<i eh irdvja y, tovtov 

B Kara Svvap,iv on fidXccTTa avToi<i KaOiardvTa 
TrpoaTCLTTeiv ^ eTrifieXrjTtjv. at iraaat roivvv 
dp')(al irXrjv ^ov\i]<; Kal TrpvTaveoiv ei? to tov 
'A7roXXa)i^o9 lepov iXOouaai (fjepovTcov -^rj^ov 
Kpv^brjv, tS)v vo/j,o(f)vXdKa>v ovrLV* av exaaTOf 
rjyrjrat koXXigt dv rwv Trepl TraiSeiav dp^at 
yevofievwv a> 5' dv irXelarai -yfrrjcfjot ^v/x^6)(TI, 
SoKijjiaaOel^ vtto tcov dXXcov dp')^6vT0)V rwv eXo- 
fievcov, ttXtjv vo/jiO(f>vXdK(ov, dpyk^w err] irevTe, 
eKTO) Se Kara ravrd dXXov etrl ravrrjv ttjv dp^rjv 

C aipelcrdai. 

'Eav Se Tf9 STjfioavav dp-^^r^v dpx<^v dnToOavr) nrplv 
i^rjKeiv avTO) rrjv dp-^^rfv nXeiov rj rpidKOVTa iiri- 
heopevrjv rj/iep(av, tov avTov Tpoirov eVt ttjv dp^rjv 
aXXov KadiaTdvuL ot9 rjv tovto TrpoarjuovTco^ peXov. 
Kal idv 6p(f)av(ov e7rtT/307ro9 TeXevrrja-p Tt9, 01 
7rpoar]KovTe<i Kal i7riBr]fiovvTe<i 7r/j09 7raT/jo9 Kal 
firjTpo^ p^XP'' dve-y\nS)v TralScov dXXov Kadia-rdvroDv 
ivTo<{ 8eKa r/fiepcbv, rj ^ijpcovadwv CKaaTO^ Spaxpjj 

D Trj'i rjp.epa'i, pixptTrep dv toi<; iraial KaTaa-rrja-coai 
TOV eTrCrpoTTOV. 

Tldcra Se hrjirov 7roXt9 diroXi'i dv yiyvono iv 
f) SiKacTTTjpia p,r} KaOecTTCOTa etrj Kara Tpoirov 
d(f>eovo'i 8' a7> BiKaaTT)<i y/ilv Kal pr} TrXeia t&v 

440 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

most godlike and tame when he happens to jwssess 
a happy nature combined with right education, if his 
training be deficient or bad, he turns out the wildest 
of all earth's creatures. Wherefore the lawgiver 
must not permit them to treat the education 
of children as a matter of secondary or casual 
importance ; but, inasmuch as the presiding official 
must be well selected, he must begin first by 
charging them to appoint as president, to the best of 
their power, that one of the citizens who is in every 
way the most excellent. Therefore all the officials — ■ 
excepting the Council and the prytaneis — shall go to 
the temple of Apollo, and shall each cast his vote for 
whichever one of the Law-wardens he deems likely 
best to control educational affairs. He who gains 
most votes, after passing a scrutiny held by the 
selecting officials, other than the Law-wardens, shall 
hold office for five years : in the sixth year they 
shall elect another man for this office in a similar 
manner. 

If anyone holding a public office dies more than 
thirty days before his office terminates, those whose 
proper duty it is must appoint a substitute in the same 
manner. If a guardian of orphans dies, the relations, 
who are residents, on both the father's and mother's 
side, as far as cousin's children, shall appoint a 
substitute within ten days, failing which they shall 
each be fined one drachma per diem until they have 
appointed the guardian for the children. 

A State, indeed, would be no State if it had no 
law-courts properly established ; but a judge who was 
dumb and who said as little as litigants at a pre- 

*■ rpoiTTaTreiv MSS. : xpoffriTiiy koI Zur., vulg. 



PLATO 

dvTi8iKO)i> ev ral^i civaKpicreai (^Oe'yyoixevo^, kuO- 
dtrep ev rait 8iaiTai<;, ovk dv Trore iKavo^ 
yivoiTO Trepi rrjv tco/' Si/caicov Kplaiv cov evexa 
ovTe TToWovs 6vra<i paSiov ev SiKci^eiv ovTe 
oXtyov^i (fiuvXov^. aa(f)e<i 8e del to dp<f)ia^r)Tov- 
E fievov xpeoov yvyveadai Trap eKaripcov, 6 8e ■)(^p6vo<; 
dp,a Kal TO 0paSv to re TroWaKa dvaKpivecv 
7rpo<; TO (f)av6pdv yiyveaOai ttjv dp.(f)ca^r]TT]a-iv 
^vfKpopov d)v eve/ca irpcoTOV fxlv el<; yeLTOvwi 
levai XPV TOU<; iiTLKaXovvTa^ dWi]XoL<; Kal Tov<i 
(j>iXov<: Te Kal ^vveihoTa^i otl fidXiaTa Td<i 
767 dfj.(f)i(T^r)TOvp,eva'i vpd^ei'i' edv 8' dpa fir) ev 
T0VT0i<i Ti<i iKavTjv Kplaiv Xa/jL0dvr}, tt/jo? dXXo 
8iKacrTrjpiov ltco' to 8e Tp'tTov, dv to, 8vo 
8iKaa'T7]pia fMrj 8vv7)Tai 8iaXXd^ai, TeXa eirt- 
OeToy T?} 8iKrj. 

TpoTTOV 8r] TLva Kal TOiv 8iKacrTr}p[(ov ai 
KUTaaTda-ec; dpy^ovTwv eicrlv atpecrei^' irdvTa 
fiev yap dpyovTa dvayKalov Kal 8iKa(rTT)v 
elvai Tivcov, 8iKacrT7]'i 8e ovk dp^cov /cat Tiva 
TpoTTov dp-)((ov ov Trdvv (f)avXo<i yiyveTai ttjv toB' 
ijpepav jiTTep dv Kplviov ti]V 8'LKrjv diroTeXfj. 
B devTd 8tj Kal T0U9 8iKaaTd<i w? dp'^ovTa<i Xeyoi/xev 
TLva dv elev TrpeirovTe^ Kal Tivoiv dpa 8iKa(TTal 
Kal iroaoi i(p^ cKaaTOV. 

^AvayKaioTaTov^ p,ev toLvvv eaTco 8iKacrTj]-. 
pLOv oirep dv avTol eavToi^ dTro(pi]vQ)atv eKaaTOi, 
Koivfj Tivd<i €X6p,evor 8vo 87] twv Xocttcov ecrTO) 
KpiTijpia, TO fiev OTttv Tt9 Tiva l8id)Tr]v l8ici)Tr)<i, 
eTraiTi(i)fievo<i d8iK€tv avTov, dy<ov ei? 8i,Kr)v 
^ovXrjTac 8iaKpidfjvai, to S' oiroTav to 8r)p6<Tcov 

* a,vayicai6TaTot': Ku^iiiraTo*' MSS. (ri ir/JtiTo*' Susemihl) 
442 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

liminary int^uiry,^ as do arbitrators,^ would never 
prove efficient in deciding questions of justice; con- 
sequently it is not easy for a large or for a small 
body of men to judge well, if they are of poor 
ability. The matter in dispute on either side must 
always be made clear, and for elucidating the point 
at issue, lapse of time, deliberation and frequent 
questionings are of advantage. Therefore those 
who challenge . each other must go first to the 
neighbours and friends who know most about the 
actions in dispute : if a man fails to get an adequate 
decision from them, he shall repair to another court ; 
and if these two courts are unable to settle the 
matter, the third court shall put an end to the case. 

In a sense we may say that the establishment of 
law-courts coincides with the election of officials ; for 
every official must be also a judge of certain matters, 
while a judge, even if not an official, may be said to 
be an official of no little importance on the day when 
he concludes a suit by pronouncing his judgment. 
Assuming then that the judges are officials, let us 
declare who will make suitable judges, and of what 
matters, and how many shall deal with each case. 

The most elementary form of court is that 
which the two parties arrange for themselves, 
choosing judges by mutual agreement; of the rest, 
there shall be two forms of trial, — the one when a 
private person accuses a private person of injuring 
him and desires to gain a verdict by bringing him to 
trial, and the other when a person believes that the 

* i.e. an inquiry into the grounds of a proposed action at 
law, to decide whether or not it should be brought into 
court. 

• i.e. persons appointed to settle points in dispute, so aa 
to avoid a legal trial in the regular courts. 

443 



PLATO 

VTTO TIVO^ TMV 7ro\lTQ)V r'jjrJTai, Tt9 d8lKei(T0ai 
C Kal ^OvXrjSfl TO) KOLVrZ f^OTjOeZv. XeXTCOV 8* 

OTToloi T elal Kal rive<; ol Kptrai. Trpayrov Br) 

htKaarrjpiov rj/jLiv yiyveado) koivov airaat Tot9 

TO rpiTOV a/j.(f)t(T^T]TOvacv IBicoTaif 7rpo<; aWrj- 

Xou?, yevofxevov r^Se ttj;. Trdaa^i 8tj ra? dpYoa, 
' ' >»* \'\f> ^ , ' , 

OTToaai re kut eviavrov Kai oTroaat TrXeLfo ypovov 

ap'x^oucrcv, eTrecoav jMeWr) veo<i eviavro'i fiera 

Oepivas TpoTrd<i tw emovrt, /jltjvI yiyveaOai, rav- 

T?79 Tr)<i r)/jL6pa<i rfj irpoaOev 7rdvra<; xph 'tov<; 

dp-)(ovra(; avveXdelv etV ev lepov koX tov 6eov 

D 6fji6(TavTa<i olov dirdp^aadai 7rdar)<i ap;^^? €va 
BiKacrTi]v, b<i av iv dp')(^ iKda-rrj dpicrTO'i re elvai 
Bo^r) Kol dpiar av Kal ocncorara rd<i B'tKa^ roif 
TToXirai'i avra> rov emovra eviavrov (paLvrjrai 
BiaKpiveiv. rovrcov Be alpedevrwv yoyveaOat fiev 
BoKLfxaaiav ev rot? eXofievoi^ avrol<i' edv Be drro- 
BoKifxaadfi ri<;, erepov dvOaipeladat, Kara rdurd. 
roi)^ Be BoKifiacrdevra^; BiKdteiv fiev roi^ raXXa 
SiKacrrijpia (pvyovai, rrjv Be ■\jr7](f)ov (f}avepdv 

E (f)€peiv. eirriKoovi S' elvai, Kal 9eard<; rovrcov rcov 
Blkcov e'f dvdyKr]<; /nev ^ovXevrd^ Kal rov<i dWov^; 
dp^ovra^ rov'i ekop-evovq avrov^, rwv Be dXXwv rov 
^ovXofievov. edv Be Tt? eirairidrai rtva eKovra 
dBiKco^ Kplvac rrjv Blktjv, eh rov<; vop,o^vXaKa<i 
Iq)v KarT]yopeira)' 6 Be 6(f)Xa)v rrjv roiavrrjv BiKrjv 
vTrex^T<o f^^v rov ^Xa^ov; ra> ^Xa(f)devri ro 
BinrXda-Lov ^ riveiv, edv Be fxei^ovo^ d^to<; elvai 
Bo^rj ^rifj.i,a<i, irpoarifidv rov^ Kpivavra^ rrjv BIkijv 

1 Strkiicnoy Ritter, England .• ftfuav MSS. 

444 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

State is being injured by one of the citizens and 
desires to succour the common weal. Who and 
what sort the judges are must now be explained. 
First, we must have a court common to all private 
persons who are having their third ^ dispute with 
one another. It shall be formed in this way. On 
the day preceding the commencement of a new year 
of office — which commences with the month next after 
the summer solstice — all the officials, whether hold- 
ing office for one year only or longer, shall assemble 
in the same temple and, after adjuring the god, they 
shall dedicate, so to say, one judge from each body 
of officials, namely, that member of each body whom 
they deem the best man and the most likely to decide 
the suits for his fellow-citizens during the ensuing year 
in the best and holiest way. These being chosen, 
they shall undergo a scrutiny before those who have 
chosen them ; and should any be disqualified, they 
shall choose a substitute in like manner. Those 
who pass the scrutiny shall act as judges for those 
who have escaped the other courts, and they shall 
cast their votes openly. The Councillors, and all the 
other officials, who have elected them, shall be 
obliged to attend these trials, both to hear and to 
see ; and anyone else that wishes may attend. Any- 
one who accuses a judge of deliberately giving an 
unjust judgment shall go to the Law- wardens and 
lay his charge before them : ajudge that is convicted 
on such a charge shall submit to pay double the 
amount of the damage done to the injured party ; 
and if he be held to deserve a greater penalty, the 
judges of the case shall estimate what additional 

^ Apparently, this refers to Uie third court (of appeal) 
mentioned above, 767 A 2 £ 

445 



PLATO 

8 Ti 'x^pTj irpo'i TovTUi iraOelv avrov fj airorivuv 
TcS Koivu) Kul TO) T7]v 8lkt]v SiKaaafiivo). Trepl 
8e rSiv BTjfioaicov iyKXrjfidrcDv dvajxalov irpwrov 
768 jxev T(p irXrjOet, fierahihovai rrj^ Kpiaeoi<i' ol 'yap 
d8tKou/x€vot 7ra^T69 elaiv, oTTorav ri<; rrjv iroKiv 
dBiKT}, Kal ^aXeTTCo? av iv h'lKr) (pipoiev a/xoipoi 
yiyvofievoc roiv toiovtcop BiaKpia-ecov, dW dp^rjv 
T€ elvai XPh '^V^ TOiavry]<; SLKr]<; koI reXevTrjv 
€49 TOP Srjfjbov diToBiBofievTjp, ttjv Se ^dcravov iv 
rai^; fxeyia-raii; dp'xal'i rptalv, a? dv 6 re (f>evyQ)v 
Kol 6 SiMKcov ^vvofjLoXoyrJTOP' idv Be fit) hvprjaOop 
Koipcoprjaai T?}<f 6/j,o\oyLa<; avrol, rrjv /3ov\r}p 

B iTTiKpipeip avTOiP rrjp aipeaiP exaTepov. Bet Be 
Bt) Kal roiv IBicov Bikwp Koipcopeiv kuto. Bvpa/j-ip 
diravra^' 6 <ydp dKoipcoPTjTO^ wp e^ovaLa<; rov 
avvBiKa^eiP •qyelraL to Trapdirap rrj<i TroXew^ ov 
/i€T0^09 elpai. Bid ravT ovp Brj xat, Kara <f)v\a<; 
dvayKoiov BiicaaTrjpid re yiypeaOai Kal KXrjpw 
BiKa(TTd<; eK rov irapaxprj^a dBLa^66pov<i ralf 
Ber'jaeai BiKa^eiv to Be TeX.09 Kpiveiv iravrav twv 
TOiovTwv eKelpo to BLKacrTrjpiop 6 <^aixev ei? ye 
dpdpcoTTiPrip BvpafjLip o)? oloi' Te dBiaipdopcDraTa 

C irapea-Kevdadai roh firj Bvpafxepoi^i pL-qre ep toU 
yeiroai. fjirjre ep T0t9 <f>v\eTiKoc<i BiKa<TTi]pLOi<i 
dTTaXXaTTeadat. 

Nvp Bt] rrepl fiev BiKaarijpia tj/mIp, d Bt] cfja/J^ep 
ovd' ct)9 dp')(^d<; OV0' (U9 fir) paBtov eliTovra ap- 
a/j.(f)i(T/3r}Ti}TQ)<i elptjKepai, Trepl [lep rain a oiop 
Treptypaipij Ti<i e^codev Trepcyeypa/xfiepr) rd fxev 

^ The whole of this account (766 E-768 C) of courts and 
judges is confused and confusing. It would seem that 2 

446 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

punishment must be inflicted, or what payment made 
to the State and to tlie j^erson who took j)roceedings. 
In the matter of offences against the State it is 
necessary, first of all, that a share in the trial should 
be given to the jKjpulace, for when a wrong is done 
to the State, it is the whole of the people that are 
wronged, and they would justly be vexed if they had 
no share in such trials ; so, while it is right that both 
the beginning and the ending of such a suit should 
be assigned to the people, the examination shall 
take place before three of the highest officials 
mutually agreed upon by both defendant and 
plaintiff: should they be unable by themselves to 
reach an agreement, the Council must revise the 
choice of each of them. In private suits also, so far 
as possible, all the citizens must have a share ; for 
the man that has no share in helping to judge 
imagines that he has no part or lot in the State at 
all. Therefore there must also be courts for each 
tribe, and judges appointed by lot and to meet the 
sudden occasion must judge the cases, unbiassed by 
appeals ; but the final verdict in all such cases must 
rest with that court which we declare to be organised 
in the most incorruptible way that is humanly 
possible, specially for the benefit of those who have 
failed to obtain a settlement of their case either 
before the neighl)ours or in the tribal courts.^ 

Thus as concerns the law-courts— which, as we say, 
cannot easily be called either " offices " or " non- 
offices " without ambiguity — this outline sketch 
serves to describe them in part, though there is a 

classes of suits are indicated, public and private, and 3 kinds 
ot courts, viz. (1) local courts (composed of neighboars), 
(2) tribal courts, ^3) courts of appeaL 

447 



PLATO 

eiprjKC, ra 8' airoXeiirei ay^ehov Trpo'i yap reXei 
vo/JLoOeaia^ i) Sikmv dKpi/3r)<i [v6/xcov^^ 6eai<i apa 
Kol hiaipecn^ opOorara jLyvoir av p,aKpa>. rav- 
D TULi; pev ovv elprjcrdo) Trpo? ra reXei Trepipbiveiv 
^P'df, at Se Trepl ra^ dWa^ ap^a<i KaraardaeL<i 
(T^eSov ri]v 7r\eL<TTr]v €lXi](j)aai vop,oOe<TLav. to 
Be oXov Koi dKpi^e<i irepl ivof re koI irdvTcov tcov 
Kara ttoXlv koL TroXirtKrjv irdaav hioiKriaiv ^ ovk 
eari yeveadai cracf)e^, irplv dv rj Bie^oBo^ dir' 
dpxv'i Td re Bevrepa koI rd pecra Kal rrdvra 
peprj rd eavrrj^; drroXa^ovaa vryoo? reXo<i d(pLKr)rai. 
E vvv p,7]v iv r(p irapovri p.ey^pi rr\<i roiv dp^ovrcov 
aip€aeco<i 'yevop.evT]^; reXevrjj p.ev roiv epLirpoaOev 
avrrj jLyvoir av iKavrj, vo/jloov Be Oeaeco^ ('PXV 
Kai dva/3oX(ov apLa Kal okvwv ouhev en 8eop,evr]. 

KA. Ildvr(o<; poi Kara vovv, S) ^eve, rd epLtrpocr- 
Oev elprjK(ji}<;, rrjv <''PXV^ ^^^ reXevr-^ 7rpo(Tdylra<; 
Trept, rSiV re elprjpevcov Kal rwv p,eXX6vra)v 
p7)6i)<readai, ravra en pbdXXov eKeivcov etprjKa^ 
<j)iXi(o<;. 
T69 Ae. KaXco'i rolvvv av 7)p,lv rj tt pea ^vto)v 
epb^poiv TratSid p^e^pi' Bevp etr) rd vvv Biaire- 
iraiapbev)). 

KA. KaA.J/t' rrjv arrovdijv eoiKa<i SjjXouv roiv 
dvBpoov. 

A0. Et«09 ye. rohe h evvoi'iaco/xev, el aol 
SoKec Kaddirep epoL 

KA. To Tcolov 87} ; Kal Trepl rivwv ; 

A0. OlaO^ on KaOdirep ^(oypddxi^v ovBev 7repa<; 
e^eLV Tj IT pay p,areia hoKel Trepl eKaarcov rSiV 

^ \y6tjioov'\ bracketed by Bekker. 
* ikolKT)(nv Ast, Schanz : ttoiidiafwv MSS. 
448 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

good deal it omits ; for detailed legislation and 
definition concerning suits would most properly be 
placed at the conclusion of the legislative code.^ So 
let these matters be directed to wait for us at the 
conclusion ; and I should say that the other official 
posts have had most of the legislation they require 
for their establishment. But a full and precise 
account concerning each and all of the State depart- 
ments and the whole of the civic organisation it is 
impossible to give clearly until our review has 
embraced every section of its subject, from the first 
to the very last, in proper order. So now, at the 
point where we stand — when our exposition has 
reached so far as to include the election of the 
officials — we may find a fit place to terminate our 
previous subject, and to commence the subject of 
legislation, which no longer needs any postponements 
or delays. 

CLIN. The previous subject, Stranger, you have 
treated to our entire satisfaction ; but we welcome 
still more heartily the way you have linked up your 
past statements with your future statements — the 
end with the beginning. 

ATH. It seems, then, that up to now our ancients* 
game of reason ^ has been finely played. 

CLIN. You are showing, I think, how fine is the 
serious work of our citizens. 

ATH. Very probably : but let us see whether you 
agree with me about another point. 

cuN. What is it, and whom does it concern ? 

ATH. You know how, for instance, the painter's 
art in depicting each several subject seems never to 

» Cp 853 AfiF.,956Bff. 

' i.e. tiie "game" of legislation, cp. 685 A, 712 B. 

449 



PLATO 

B ^comv, d\X* rj rov ypaiveiv rj d'7ro')(palv€iv, rj 6 ri 
hri TTore KuXovac to tocovtov ol ^wypdcpoiv iracSe^;, 
ovK dv TTore SoKei TravaaaOai Kocrfiovcra, ware 
eTTiBoaiv fjLTjKeT' e^€iv et<? to KaWio) re Kal (pave- 
pcoTepa ytyveaOat rd yeypa/u.p.eva. 

KA. '^'X^eBov evvoS) dKOvcav koX avTO<i ravra d 
\ejei<i, eVet ivrpi^i]<; ye ov8ap(t><i yiyova ttj 
Tocavrrj rix^'f)- 

A0. Kat ovSiv ye e/3Xa/S7?<?. xp-qadopbedd ye 
firjv rat vvv iraparv^^ovri rrepl avrrj<; rjpip Xoyep 

C TO roiovBe, to? et' ttotc ri<; emvorjaeie ypdyjrai re 
ft)9 KdXXiarov ^<aov koX rovr av pLrjSiTrore irrl to 
(ftavXorepov aXX,' irrl ro fieXriov la^^iv rov im- 
6vro<i del ')(^p6vov, ^vvvoel<i on 6pr)r6<i ayv, el pir) 
riva KaraXeiyp-ei Bidho\ov o<? ^ erravopdovv re, idv 
rt (r(f)dXXrjrat ro i^wov viro ■)(p6v(ov, xal to 
TrapaXeicpdev vrro t?}? dadevela<i rrj^ eavrov Trpo? 
rrjv Te')(yriv ol6<i re el<i ro rrpoadev earai cpaiSpv- 
vtov TTOielv emhihovai, aptKpov riva "x^povov avrm 
TTOvo^i -napapevel irdpLiroXv^ ; 
KA. 'AXrjdrj. 

D A0. Tt ovv ; dp ov roiovrov BoKel aot ro rov 
vopLoderov ^ovXrjpa elvac ; rrpcorov p.ev ypdyp-ai 
T0v<i v6pL0v<; 7rp6<i rrjv aKpi^eiav Kara hvvap.LV 
lKavSi<;' eireira Trpol6vro<; rov ^povov Kal roiv 
Bo^dvrav epyw rreipcopevov dp" oiei rivd ovrci}<i 
dcppova yeyovevai vop,oOirT}v, axrr dyvoelv on 
TrdpnoXXa dvdyKi] TrapaXeirreadai roiavra, a 
Set nvd ^vveiropevov irravopdovv, iva p,T]8a/J,f} 
j^eipoov, ^eXrlcov 8e r) rroXireia xat o KO(Tpo<s 

E del yiyvqrai rrepl rrjv fpKiapLevrjv avrw rroXiv ; 
* hs Hermann, Sc^anz : toD MSS. 
450 ■ 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

get to an end, and in its embellishing it seems as if 
it would never stop laying on colours or taking them 
off — or whatever the professional painters term the 
process — and reach a point where the picture admits 
of no further improvement in respect of beauty and 
lucidity. 

CLIN. Ij too, remember hearing something of the 
fact you mention, although I am by no means 
practised in that kind of art. 

ATH. You are none the worse for that. We may 
still use this fact, which it has occurred to us to 
mention, to illustrate the following point. Suppose 
that a man should propose to paint an object of 
extreme beauty, and that this should never grow 
worse, but always better, as time went on, do you 
not see that, since the painter is mortal, unless he 
leaves a successor who is able to repair the picture if 
it suffers through time, and also in the future to 
improve it by touching up any deficiency left by his 
own imperfect craftsmanship, his interminable toil 
will have results of but short duration? 

CLIN. True. 

ATH. Well then, do you not think that the 
purpose of the lawgiver is similar? He purposes, 
first, to write down the laws, so far as he can, with 
complete precision ; next, when in the course of time 
he puts his decrees to the test of practice, you cannot 
suppose that any lawgiver will be so foolish as not to 
perceive that very many things must necessarily be 
left over, which it will be the duty of some successor 
to make right, in order that the constitution and the 
system of the State he has organised may always 
grow better,^ and never in any way worse. ^ 

» Cp. PolU. 298 A ff. 

45^ 



PLATO 

KA. Et«69, TTw? lyap ov ; ^ovXeadai iravra 

QVTLVOVV TO TOIOVTOV. 

A0. OvKovv el Tt9 Tiva jjurf'^avriv e^oi 'rrpof 
TOVTO, epyo) koI \6yoL<i Ttva rpotrov Bihd^eiev av 
erepov etVe fiei^ova core eXciTTco irepl tout e^eiv 
evvoiav, ottco^ ■)(^pr) (f)v\drT€iv koI eTravopOovv 
v6fiov<;, ovK dv TTore 'Keycov direiiroi to roioinov 
TTpXv inl TeXo? eXdeiv ; 
770 KA. n&i? yap ov ; 

A0. OvKovv iu rut vvv irapovTt, irotriTeov ep.o\ 
Kol a(f>a>v TOVTO ; 

KA. To TTolov Sr) Xeyei<; ; 

A0. ^Eiireihr] vofioOeTelv fiev /j,eXko/j.ev, ypr/vTui 
Be rjfilv vo/jLO(f)v\aKe<;, rj/xelf S' iv hv<Tp,ai<; tov 
^iov, 01 8' o)? TTyoo? r]}jLd<i veoi, dfia fiiv, &>? ^ajxev, 
Bel vopLoOcTelv rjp,d<i, a/xa Be Treipdadai TTOtelv koX 
TOVTOvi avTovq vofiodeTa<i Te koX vofio(f)v\aKa<i 

€49 TO BwUTOV. 

B KA. Tt fiijv ; etirep oloi Te y ecrfiev iKavw<i. 
A0. 'AA,A-' ovv TreipuTea ye koI TrpodvfitjTea. 
KA. nft)9 ydp ov ; 

A0. Aeycofiev Brj irpo^ avTov^' 'fl <f)L\oi 
aa}Trjpe<i vofiwv, rjfiel<i irepl CKdaTcov S)v Tidefiev 
TOU9 vofiov^ TrdfiTToWa irapakei'^o pbev dvdyKT) 
ydp' ov firjv aX.X' oaa ye fjurj a-fitxpa koI to okov 
6t9 Bvvap^LV OVK dv^crofiev direpirjyrjTOv Kaddirep 
Tivl irepiypac^fj' tovto Be Berjcret (TVfnr\r)povv 
vfid<i TO irepirjyijdev. oirot Be ^\e7rovTe<i BpdaeTe 
C TO TOiovTov, aKoveiv XP^' Me7tX\o9 fiev ydp koI 
iyo) KoX KXeivia<i eiprjKafiev Te avTa dWijXoc^ 
OVK oXiyaKLS ofjboXoyovfiev re Xeyeadai Ka\5><i' 

452 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

CLIN. This, of course, is what everyone naturally 
desires. 

ATH. Suppose then that a man knew of a device 
indicating the way in which he could teach another 
man by deed and word to understand in a greater or 
less degree how he should conserve or amend laws, 
surely he would never cease declaring it until he 
had accomplished his purpose. 

CLIN. He certainlv would not. 

ATH. Must not we three act thus on the present 
occasion ? 

CLIN. What is it you mean ? 

ATH. We are about to make laws, and Law- 
wardens have been appointed by us ; therefore, 
since we are in the evening of life, while those com- 
pared to us are youthful, we should not only legislate, 
as we say, ourselves, but also make legislators, as 
well as Law-wardens, of these very same men, so far 
as we can. 

CLIN. We should, — if, that is to say, we are 
capable of so doing. 

ATH. At any rate we must try, and try hard. 

CLIN. By all means. 

ATM. Let us address them thus : — " Beloved 
Keepers of the Laws, in many departments of our 
legislation we shall leave out a vast number of matters 
(for we needs must do so) ; yet, notwithstanding, 
all important matters, as well as the general descrip- 
tion, we shall include, so far as we can, in our outline 
sketch. Your help will be required to fill in this 
outline ; and you must listen to what I say about the 
aim you should have before you in doing so. Megil- 
lus, Clinias and I have often stated to one another 
that aim, and we agree that it is rightly stated ; so 

453 



PLATO 

i/fia^ Se r)fuv ^ovXofieda ^vyyv (ofiovd'i re dfia 
Kat, fxadrjTa<i yiyveaOai, ^XiirovTa^ tt/oo? ravra 
et9 airep r}/ji€i<i ^vve')(aiprjaafiev dWi]\oL<i rov 
vofio^vXaKci T€ Koi vo/MoOeTrjv Selv ^Xeiretv. rjv 
he rj <rvyx(t)pr)(Ti<; ev exovaa K€<pciX,aiov, oVa)? irore 
D avrjp dyado<i yiyvoir dv rrjv dvOpdaiTW irpocrrj- 
Kovaav dperrjv t^? "^^XV^ ^X<w ^"^ Ttvo'i eTrtri]- 
hevp.aTO<i Tj Tivo<i i]dov<; rj iroid^ atTJaeioi;^ rj iiri- 
dvp.ia<i rj h6^rj<i rj p,a6r]p,dTa)V ttotc rivcov, etre 
dpprjv Td Tcov ^vvoiKovvrwv ovaa rj (f>vac<; etre 
6t]\eia, vicov ■^ yepovrcov, ottw? et? ravrov tovto 
o Xeyojxev Terafievr) (nrovBr) irdaa earat Sid 
TravTo<i tov /Stou, twv 8' dWcov oiroaa epLTToSia 
TOVTOi^ firjhev TrpoTifMwv (fiaveiTai p,r)B^ oaricrovv, 
E reXevTcav Se koX TroXeoj?, edv ^ dvdtnaTov <Cdv^ 
dvdyKi] ^aivrjTat yiyveadai irpXv edeXeiv SouXeiov 
virofieivaaav ^ ^vyov dp-)(^eadai vtto x^ipovcov, rj 
XeiTreiv (fivyfj rrjv ttoXiv, &)? Trdvra ra roiavr ap 
ecrO" vTTop^evereov trda'^ovTa'; rrplv dXXd^aadat 
TToXiTelav fj -^eipov; dvOpoiirovi TT€(f>VK€ TTOcelv. 
ravra r)/j,€i<; re epurpoadev ^vvcofioXoyrjcrd/jLeda, 
Kal vvv vfx,et<i ■^ficov et? ravra e/cdrepa /SXeTrovre? 
iirdvire ^ Kal yjreyere rovt v6p,ov<;, ocroi /nrj ravra 
771 hvvarol, rov<i he Bvvarov<; dairdt^ecrde re Kai 
<f)tXo(pp6v(o<; Be-^ofievoi ^'rjre ev avroi^- rd 6' aXXa 
€7rirj)8evfjLara Kal rrp6<; dXXa reivovra ro>v dya- 
6Siv Xeyofievwv '^aipeiv ')(^prj irpocrayopeveiv. 

^Apxv ^^ €(rra> r(ov fierd ravra r]fuv v6fia>v rjBe 

* ffiT^ffeojj : KTT«r«aij MSS., edd. (ttot' avK-llfffayS Apelt). 
» iiv : ^o*- MSS. Also I add <&v>. 
' uxofifivaaav Stallb. : inrofidvaffa MSS. 

454 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

we desire you to be in immediate unison witli us, as 
our disciples, and to aim at those objects at which, as 
we three have asrreed, the lawgiver and Law-warden 
ought to aim. The sum and substance of our agree- 
ment was simply this : that whatsoever be the way 
in which a member of our community — be he of the 
male or female sex, young or old, — may become a 
good citizen, possessed of the excellence of soul which 
belongs to man, whether derived from some pursuit 
or disposition, or from some form of diet, or from 
desire or opinion or mental study, — to the attainment 
of this end all his efforts throughout the whole of his 
life shall be directed ; and not a single person shall 
show himself preferring any object which impedes 
this aim ; in fine, even as regards the State, he must 
allow it to be revolutionised, if it seems necessary, 
rather than voluntarily submit to the yoke of slavery 
under the rule of the worse, or else he must himself 
quit the State as an exile : all such sufferings men 
must endure rather than change to a polity which 
naturally makes men worse. This is what we 
previously agreed upon ^ : so do you now keep both 
these objects of ours in view as you revise the laws, 
and censure all the laws which are unable to effect 
them, but welcome all such as are able to do so, and, 
adopting them wholeheartedly, rule your lives by 
them. All other practices, which tend towards 
* goods ' (so-called), other than these, you must bid 
farewell to." 

For a beginning of the laws which are to follow, 

» 688 E, 742 E. 

—-* ViTBhTTf Apett,' England : iVcufctTc MSS. (Schanz brackets 
iTraivflrf Kal). ... 

455 



PLATO 

Tt9, d<^' lepoyv rjpyiievT}. top apidfiov 'yap St) Set 
nrpwrov avaXa^elv r]iJ,d^ rov rStv 7r€VTaKi(T')(i\ici)v 
Kol TCTjapaKovTa, 6cra<i el^e re Ka\ e')(ei TOfia<i 

B 7rpoa(f)opovf; 6 Te 6\o<; ap.a koX 6 Kara (f)vXd<i, o 8t] 
Tov TravTO'i eOe/xev 8Q)8€KaTrjp.6piov, €i> Kal eXKoaiv 
€i,KoadKt<i opdorara <^vv. 6;^et hehvavop,a^ BcaSexa 
fiev o TTa? dpiOfi6<; rjp,tv, BooSefca Be koI 6 rrj<i 
(J3v\f)<i. eKacTTrjv Bt) ttjv fioipav Siavoetadal'X^pecov 
0)9 ovcrav lepov Oeov Scopov, eirofievrjv rol<i p,r]al Kal 
TTJ TOV TrafTO? TrepioSo). 8i6 kuI irdcrav ttoKlv 
dyei )iev to ^vp,(f>VTOv lepovv avTo,^, dWoi Se 
aXkayv i<ra>^ opOoTepov iveipavTO Te Kal euru^etrTC- 

C pov eOeioacrav ttjv 8tavo/.u']v. r]p.el<i 8e ovv vvv ^ap.ev 
opBoTUTa irporjprjcrOat tov twv TrevTaKt(T')(^i\ia)V 
Kal TCTTapaKOvra dpi6p.6v, 09 •7racra9 Ta9 8i,avopu<i 
€')(€i p-expi' Tftiy 8(i}8eKa diro pid<; dp^dpevo<; ttXtjv 
ei'BcKdBo'i' avTrj 8* e%6t crpiKpoTaTOV Xapu' eTU 
Odrepa "yap vyir)<; jiyveTat 8votv eaTiatv dtro- 
ve/LirjOevcraiv. dx; S' eaTC TavTa d\7]d(o<; ovTa, 
Kara a')^o'\.T]V ovk av ttoXv^ eiriBei^eie pv9o<i. 
Tri(TT€vaavT€<i 8t) rd vvv t^ Trapova-r) <f)i]p.D Kal 

D Xoyo) veipcop^ev Te tuvtij,^ Kal eKacTTTj polpa Oeov 
t] Oecov 7rat8a i7ri(f)rjp,i<TavT€<;, ^(op,ov<i Te Kal tu 
TovTOi^ TcpocrrjKOVTa diro86vTe<i, dvaiwv Trepi 
^vv68ov^ etr' avTol^ iroicopeda 8vo tov prjvo^, 
8d>8eKa pev t^ Tt]^ (f)v\rj<; Biavopfj, BcoBeKa Be avTfp 
TO) TTJ^ 7roA,e&>9 8cap,epicrfiM, Oecav p,ev 8i] Trp&TOV 
'^dpiTO'i ev€Ka Kal t&v trepl 6eov<t, BevTepov Be 



TOLVTig : Tavrr)v MSS. : a,vrT]v Ast. 
1 Cp. 737 E flf. 



456 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

we must commence with things sacred. First, we 
uiiist consider anew ^ the number 5,040, and the 
number of convenient subdivisions which we found 
it to contain both as a whole and when divided 
up into tribes : the tribal number is, as we said, a 
twelfth part of the whole number, being in its 
nature precisely 20 X 21. Our whole number has 
twelve subdivisions, and the tribal number also has 
twelve ; and each such portion must be regarded as 
a sacred gift of God, conformed to the months and 
to the revolution of the universe. Wherefore also 
every State is guided by native instinct to hold 
them sacred, although some men possibly have made 
their divisions more correctly than others, or have 
consecrated them more happily. We, in any case, 
affirm now that we are perfectly correct in first 
selecting the number 5,040, which admits of division 
by all the numbers from 1 to 12, excepting only 
11 — and this omission is very easily remedied, since 
the mere subtraction of two hearths from the total 
restores an integral number as quotient : '^ that this 
is really true we could show, at our leisure, by a 
fairly short explanation. For the present, then, we 
shall trust to the oracular statement just delivered, 
and we shall employ these subdivisions, and give to 
each portion the name of a God, or of a child of 
Gods, and bestow on it altars and all that belongs 
thereto ; and at these we shall appoint two assem- 
blies every month for sacrifice — of which twelve 
(yearly) shall be for the whole tribal division, and 
twelve for its urban section only ; the object of 
these shall be, first, to offer thanksgiving to the gods 
and to do them service, and secondly, as we should 
* 5,040 = (11 X 458) + 2. 

457 



PLATO 

rjfiSyv avr&v olK€t6TJ]T6<; re irept fcal yvcopLoreco^ 
aX\)'i\(t)i>, o)? (f)aifi€V av, koI o/XLXia<i eveKa Tratr/;?. 

E 77/309 yap 8r] rrjv tmv yd/jLcov KOivwvlav Kol ^v/j,- 
fii^iv avayKaiw<i e')(eL ttjv dyvoiav e^aipetv irap" 
Mv re Ti9 ayerai Koi a kuI oI? eKSiScoat, irepl 
7ravT0<i TTOiovfievov oti /xaXccrTa ro firj a<f>dX- 
XeaOai /iTjEaficof; iv Tot<; roiovroi^ Kara to hvvarov. 
Trj<; ovv roiavTT]<i aTrovBrj<; eveKa 'X^py] kol ra? 
iraiZia'i Troielcrdai ■)(^opevovTd<; re Kal \opevovaa<; 
772 Kopov^ Kal Kopa^;, kuI ap-a Si] decopovvrdt re Kal 
detopov/xevovi /xera Xoyou re Kal rfXiKia^; rivo^ 
e-)(^ova'r]^ ecKvla^ 'npo(^dcreL<i, yv/j,vov^ Kal yvfiva<i 
fiexptTTep al8ov<i crox^povo^ kKdaratv. rovrcdv S" 
eTTip.eXTjra^ iravroiv Kal koct fir^ra'i rov<i rSiv x^pfov 
apXovTa<i fyiyvecrdai, Kal vop,oOeTa<i p,erd rwv 
vofio(f)vXdKa)v, oacov ^ av ?7/xet9 eKXeiiratp.ev rdr- 
rovraf. 

^ AvayKalov Be, oirep etirofiev, irepl to, roiavra 
TTavra ocra afiiKpa Kal ttoXXo, vopboOeTrjv fiev 

B iKXeiireiv, Tov<i S' e/x7rei/90U9 del Kar eviavrov 
yiyvofievov<i avTcov drro rr)<i p^/9eta9 fxavOdvovTa^; 
TaTTecrOai Kal eTravopdovp.evovi Kivelv Kar eviav- 
Tov, e<u9 av opo<i lKav6<i 86^t} t&v toiovtoiv vo- 
/j,Cp,Q)v Kal eTTcnjSevfidTcov yeyovevai. XP^^^'^ P''^^ 
ovv /jLeTpio<i dp,a Kal iKav6<i ylyvoiT av Tij<i ep,7rei- 
pt'at heKaeT7]po<i dvaiwv re Kal x^p^tav, eVt Trdvra 
Kal eKacrra raxOeh, ^covro<; p,ev rov rd^avro^ 

C vofioderov Koivfj, TeXo9 Be axovro'; avrd<; eKdcr- 
Ta<i raq dpxd<i el<i 701/9 vop,0(f)vXaKa<? ei<T<j>epovcra<i 
TO TrapaXenrofievov t% avrcov dpx^)^ evav- 

> 8(r<»v Aldus: gtroc MSS. 

458 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

assert, to promote fellowship amongst ourselves and 
mutual acquaintance and association of every 
sort. For, in view of the fellowship and intercourse 
of marriage, it is necessary to eliminate ignorance, 
both on the part of the husband concerning the 
woman he marries and the family she comes from, 
and on the part of the father concerning the man 
to whom he gives his daughter ; for it is all- 
important in such matters to avoid, if possible, any 
mistake. To achieve this serious purpose, sportive 
dances should be arranged for boys and girls ; and 
at these they should both view and be viewed, in 
a reasonable way and on occasions that offer a suit- 
able pretext, with bodies unclad, save so far as sober 
modesty prescribes. Of all such matters the officers 
of the choirs shall be the supervisors and controllers, 
and also, in conjunction with the Law- wardens, the 
lawgivers of all that we leave unprescribed.^ 

It is, as we said, necessary that in regard to all 
matters involving a host of petty details the law- 
giver should leave omissions, and that rules and 
amendments should be made from year to year 
by those who have constant experience of them 
from year to year and are taught by practice, until 
it be decided that a satisfactory code has been 
made out to regulate all such proceedings. A fair 
and sufficient period to assign for such experimental 
work would be ten years, both for sacrifices and for 
dances in all their several details ; each body of 
officials, acting in conjunction with the original law- 
giver, if he be still alive, or by themselves, if he be 
dead, shall report to the Law-wardens whatever is 
omitted in their own department, and shall make 

1 Cp. 764 E f. 

459 



PLATO 

opdovaOat, fie-x^pnrep av reXo^ ^X^t** eKaarov 
So^T] Tov KaXwq i^eipydaOaf rore 8e aKLvrjra 
defievov^ r]?)i] 'x^prjaOai //.era tmv aXk(ov v6p.cov, 
ov<i era^e Kar dp)(^a<i 6 Oeh avTol<; vop.oOerr)';. oiv 
irepi Ktvelv pev e/covrwi /MTjSeTroTe firjBev el 8e rt? 

D dvdyKr] So^eie iTore KaraXa^eiv, 7rdaa<; pev ra<; 
dp')(^d<i 'X^pr) f y/A/SouA-of 9, irdvra Be tov Brjfiov Kal 
irdaa^ Secov p,avT€ia<; eTreXOovra^, edv <Tvp,(f)cov(oai 
TrdvTC'i, ovTQ) KLvelv, dW(o<i Be p,r]Be7roTe p-tjBafio)';, 
dWa TOV KcoXvovTa del kutu vop^ov KpaTelv. 

'Oirodev ^ Ti<i ovv Koi oTrtjviKa tojv nrevTe koX 
eiKoat jeyovoToyv eTrj aKoirSiv Kal (TKOTTovpevo<i utt' 
aX\(ov KaTCL vovv eavTW koI irpeirovTa ei9 nraiBmi 
KOLvayviav koI yevecriv e^evprjKevai TTia-Teuei 
<ydfwv>,^ yapLeiTU) fxev ird^ evTo^i tcov "jrevTe /cal 

E TpiuKOVTa eTOiV to Be Trperrov Kal to dpp,oTTov 
ft)? ')(pr] i^TjTelv, TTpwTOv eiraKOvcrdTW Bel ydp, w? 
^7)0-1 K\etvLa<;, epLirpoaOev tov v6p.ov Trpooifiiov 
oiKetov eKacTTW irpoTiOevai. 

KA. l^dWtaTa, 0} ^eve, Btep,vr)p6vevaa^, eXa/Se? 
re TOV \6yov Kaipov Kal /xaX' ep,o\ Bokovvt eivat 
crvp,p,eTpov. 

A0. E5 \eyei<i. 'H jral, tolvvv <^<ap,ev dyadSiv 

773 TTaTepwv (f)vvTi, tou? Trapd toI<; ep,(f}poaiv €vB6^ov<i 

ydp,ov<i XPV yf^P^tv, o'i croi Trapaivotev av p.r) 

(f)€Vy€lV TOV T(OV TTeVTjTOiV /HrjBc TOV TWV TTkOVaiCOV 

Bt(OK€tv Bta(f)ep6vTQ}<; ydp,ov, dW eav ToKkalaaKr], 
TOV vTToBeeaTepov del Tip,oiVTa et,<i ttjv KotvcovLuu 
^vvUvai. TTj re ydp TroXei ^vp(f)opov dv ecrj Tairrr] 



.if. dir69ev Aldus, England : irdre MSS. 
' (^yinoyy I add. 



460 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

it good, until each detail seems to have reached its 
proper completion : this done, they shall decree 
them as fixed rules, and employ them as well as 
the rest of the laws originally deci'eed by the law- 
giver. In these they must never make any change 
voluntarily; but if it should ever be thought that 
a necessity for change has arisen, all the people 
must be consulted, as w^ell as all the officials, and 
they must seek advice from all the divine oracles ; 
and if there is a general consent by all, then they 
may make a change, but under no other conditions 
at any time ; and the objector to change shall always 
prevail according to law. 

When any man of twenty-five ^ years of age, 
viewing and being viewed by others, believes that 
he has found in any quarter a mate to his liking 
and suitable for the joint procreation of children, 
he shall marry, in every case before he is thirty- 
five ; but first let him hearken to the direction as 
to how he should seek what is proper and fitting, 
for, as Clinias maintains, one ought to introduce 
each law by a prelude suitable thereto."^ 

CLIN. A very proper reminder. Stranger, — and 
you have chosen, in my opinion, a most opportune 
point in your discourse for making it. 

ATH. You are right. So let us say to the son 
of noble sires : My child, you must make a marriage 
that will commend itself to men of sense, who 
would counsel you neither to shun connexion with 
a poor family, nor to pursue ardently connexion 
\vith a rich one, but, other things being equal, to 
prefer always an alliance with a family of moderate 
means. Such a course will benefit both the State 

1 But cp. 721 B. * Cp. 720 E. 

VOL. 1. n 461 



PLATO 

rait re ^vviovaai<; eariai^i' to yap 6/xaX6v kui 
^vfXfxerpov uKparov fivpiov Sia(f)epei tt/Oo? aperrjv. 
Koa-fXLCov re irarepoyv xph T^podvp-eladai yiyveaOat 

B KrjhearrjV tov avro) ^vveihora Iraficorepov a/xa Kat 
OaTTOv TOV heovTO<i irpo'i Trdaa^ to,^ 7rpd^€C<; (f>€p6- 
fievov TOV S' evavTLQ)<; TrecpvKOTa eVl TavavTca xph 
tcrjhevfiaTa rropevecrdai. Kal kuto, TravTO^; 6t<? 
ecTTM /j.vOo<; ydfxov tov yap ttj TroKei Set av/Kpe- 
povTa /xvrjaTeveiv ydp,ov eKUCTTOV, ov tov r^SiaToi' 
avTu>. (pepeTUL Be ttw? 7ra> del kuto, (pvacv tt/jo? 
TOV o/jLOCotutov avT(p, 60 ev uvu>pa\o<i rj TroXt? oXrj 

C yiyveTUi XPVP-^^^ ^^ ''^^^ Tpoirwv ijOecriv' i^ ayv a 
fit] ^ovXopeda ^vp.^aiveiv y'jplv Kal p,d\iaTa 
^vp./3aivei Tai<; TrXeicTTat^ troXeai. TavTa Brj Sia 
\6yov pkv vopw TTpocTTaTTeiv, p,r} ya/xeiv irXovuiov 
irXovaiov firjBe TroXXa Bvvdp-evov irpdTTeiv dXkov 
TOCovTou, ddTT0V<i Be rjdeai Trpo? ^paBvTepov; Kal 
j3paBvTepov<i 7r/)09 ddTTOv<i dvayKd^eiv t^ tcov 
ydficov Koivwvia TropeveaOac, irpof t& yeXoia ecvai 
Ov/Jiov av eyeipai ttoXXoI^' ov yap paBcov evvoelv 

D OTi TToXiv elvai Bel BiKrjv KpaTr}po<i KeKpa/xevrjv, ov 
fiaiv6fjLevo<i pev olvo<; eyKex^P^vo^ ^el, KoXa^6p,evo<; 
Be VTTO vii<^ovTO<i eTepov deov KaXrjv KOivcoviav 
Xa0a)v dyadov Trcopa Kal p,€Tpiov direpyd^eTai. 
TOVT ovv yiyvopevov ev ttj twv TraiBcov p,i,^et 
Biopav, Qif eVo? ecTTelv, BvvaTO^; ovBeiij. tovtcov 
Br} ■)(dpiv eav p,€V vopw to. TOiavTa dvayKalov, 

» Cp. Polit. 310 C 3. 
462 



i 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

and the united families,^ since in respect ot 
excellence what is evenly balanced and symmetrical 
is infinitely superior to what is untempered. The 
man who knows he is und>.ly hasty and violent in 
all his actions should win a bride sprung from steady 
parents ; while the man that is of a contrary nature 
should proceed to mate himself with one of the 
opposite kind. Regarding marriage as a whole 
there shall be one general rule : each man must 
seek to form such a marriage as shall benefit the 
State, rather than such as best pleases himself. 
There is a natural tendency for everyone to make 
for the mate that most resembles himself, whence 
it results that the whole State becomes ill-balanced 
both in wealth and in moral habits ; and because 
of this, the consequences we least desire are those 
that generally befall most States. To make express 
enactments about these matters by law — that, for 
instance, a rich man must not marry into a rich 
family, nor a man of wide power with a powerful 
family, or that man of hasty tempers must be 
obliged to seek alliances with those of slower 
tempers, and the slow with the hasty — this, besides 
being ridiculous, would cause widespread resent- 
ment; for people do not find it easy to perceive 
that a State should be like a bowl of mixed wine, 
where the wine when first poured in foams madly, 
but as soon as it is chastened by the sober deity of 
water, it forms a fair alliance, and produces a potion 
that is good and moderate. That this is precisely 
what happens in the blending of children 'is a thing 
which hardly anyone is capable of perceiving ; there- 
from in the legal code we must omit such rules, and 
merely try by the spell of words to persuade each 

Q2 463 



PLATO 

E eTraSovTa Be ireideiv ireipaaOaL rr^v roiv iravhcov 
OfiaXorrjTa avTCOv auTot? Trj<i tcov ydficov la6rr)ro<i 
a'n\r)(T'Tov 'x^prj/jbdrmv ov<Tr]<i irepX TrXeiovo^ eKaarov 
TTOietaOai, koI hi 6veihov<; aTTorpeireiv rov Trepl ra 
■)(^priixaTa iv rot<; 'yd/j,oi<i icnrovBaKOTa, dWa fiir 
ypaiTTM vopL(p /Sia^ofievov. 

Hepi ydp.cop Sr) ravr eaTw irapa/j.vdia Xeyo- 
/xeva, Koi 8rj KoX rd e/xirpoa-Oe tovtcov prjOevja, 
ft>9 XPh '^V^ deiyevovf (pvaeco'i avre'^^^eadai tw 
TratSa? Traihwv KaTaXei-rrovra del tm Oew VTrrj- 
774 peTa<i dv6^ avrov irapahbhovai. iravra ovv raiiTa 
KUL en TrXeico ti^ dv etirot irepi yafxcov, (w? 
■^pi] yap,elv, 7rpooip.ia^6p,evo<; 6p0co<;. dv 8' dpa 
Tt<f /jirj ireiOrjrai eiccov, dXXorpiov 8e avrov Koi 
dKOiicovTjTOv iv rj} TroXet €-)i^r} koL dya/xo<^ o)V yevrj- 
rai 7revT€KatTpiaKovTOvrr]<i, ^-qp-iovadto kut eviav- 
Tov eKacrrov, 6 p^eyiarov fiev rlp.rjpa KeKTr]p,evo<; 
eKUTov 8pa')(fial'?, 6 Be to Sevrepov e^Bo/jLijKovra, 
rpirov he e^rjKOvra, 6 he to reraprov rptdKovra- 

B Tovro 8' earo) t% "Hpa? lepov. 6 he p,T] eKTivwv 
Kar iviavTov he/cuTrXdaiov 6cf>ei\er(o. 'jrpaTTecrOco 
he 6 Ta/xta9 Trj<; deov, p,7} e/CTrpd^a^; he avTO<i 
6(f)€iXeT(o KoX iv Tat? evOvvai^ tov tolovtou Xoyov 
vire'^iTO) Trdf. el<i /xev ovv -^pij/xaTa 6 fxr) ^OeXwv 
yap-elv ravra ^r]p,iovad(i}, Tt/x.?}? he irapa rS)V 
vewrepwv d.Tifj,o<; 7rdar)<; earco, kclI firjheh vir- 
aKovero} /xrjhev avTW eKu>v tmv vecov idv he KoXd^eiv 
Tivd iTTiy^eipfj, 7ra9 too dhiKOV/xevw ^orjdenoi kui 

C dfivpero}, fMrj ^or/OoJv he 6 7rapayev6p.€vo<i heLXo<i 

1 721 B fF. Bj' reproduction man secures a continuous 
share in the life of the divine Universe ; cp. 903 C. 

464 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

one to value the equality of his children more 
highly than the equality of a marriage with inordi- 
nate wealth, and by means of reproaches to divert 
from his object him who has set his heart on marry- 
ing for money, although we may not compel him by 
a written law. 

Concerning marriage these shall be the exhorta- 
tions given, in addition to those previously given,^ 
declaring how it is a duty to lay hold on the ever- 
living reality by providing servants for God in our 
own stead ; and this we do by leaving behind us 
children's children. All this and more one might say 
in a proper prelude concerning marriage and the 
duty of marrying. Should any man, however, refuse 
to obey willingly, and keep himself aloof and un- 
partnered in the State, and reach the age of thirty- 
five unmarried, an annual fine shall be imposed upon 
him, of a hundred drachmae if he be of the highest 
property-class, if of the second, seventy, if of the 
third, sixty, if of the fourth, thirty. This fine shall 
be consecrated to Hera.^ He that fails to pay the 
fine in full every year shall owe ten times the 
amount of it, and the treasurer of the goddess shall 
exact this sum, or, failing to exact it, he shall owe 
it himself, and in the audit he shall in every case 
be liable to account for such a sum. This shall be 
the monev-fine in which the man who refuses to 
marry shall be mulcted, and as to honour, he shall 
receive none from the younger men, and no young 
man shall of his own free-will pay any regard to 
him : if he attempt to punish any person, everyone 
shall come to the assistance of the person maltreated 
and defend him, and whoever is present and fails 

* As goddess of marriage. 

465 



PLATO 

re afia xal KaK6<i viro rou vo/iiov ttoX/tt;? elvai 
XeyeaOco. 

Tlepl Se trpoiKO'i etprjTai /xev Kol irporepov, 
clprjaOoj Se TrdAiv, to? 'Icra olptI laojv icrri to ^ [XTfre 
Xafi^dveiv ri pb-qr eKhthovai rt, ^ <^oi58 etKos aydpiovs 
6vras)> 8ta )(pr]pATCov drropLav yrjpaai<€LU rov? Trevr]- 
ra? — TO, yap dvayKala inrdpxovTd ean rrdui — roiv iv 
TavTT] rfj TToXei, v^pis Se tjttov yvvai^l kol SovXeia 
ra7T€Lvr) Kal dveXevdepos Slo. ;^p7J/iara rots yqfiacri 
D yiyvoir dv. /cat o }jl€v Tretdopievos ev rdjv KaXoJv Spwr] 
rovr dv 6 Se pLT] ireidopievos r\ StSou? rj Xap-^dvcDV 
ttXIov ri TTevrtJKOvra d^ia hpa^p^div icrdijros X^P^^> ° ^^ 
pivds, 6 Se rpidJv rfpLipLvaiinv, 6 Se hveZv puvixlv 6 ro pieyia- 
rov Tt/AT^/xa KeKrrjpiivos , d^etAe'ro) puev ra> hrjpboaio} 
roaovrov erepov.ro Se Sodev rj XT](j)$ev lepbi/ earco rr]<i 
"H/sa? re Kal rov Ato?, Trparrovrcov Se oi rafiiai 
E rovroiv rolv Oeolv, KaOdirep ipprjOr] rcov fir) 
yap^ovvTOJV irepi rov<i rafx,La<; eKTrpdrreLv eKacrrore 
revs T77?''Hpa<? rj nap' avroiv eKaarov^ rrjv i^r^paav 
eKriveiv. 

^Eyyvr]v Se elvai Kvpiav irarpa p,ev irpStrov, 
hevrepav irdtTTrov, rpirrjv Se d8e\cf)0)v o/xona- 
rplwv iav Se fxijSe el? r} rovrcov, rrjv irpof 
firjrpo'i fiera rovro elvai Kvpiav MO-avrco^;' iav S' 
dpa rvxv '^'•'^ dt]Or]<i avpL^aLvrj, rov<; iyyvrara 
yevovi del Kvplov<i elvat, /xera rcov emrpoTTcoV' baa 

1 TO MSS. rih Aldus, Zur. 

^ Xafx^dveiv ri jxrp-e iKSiSovai (ti) Cornarius : Xa/M^avovTi . . . 
eV'StSovTi MSS. <ovS' . . . ovrasy I add, exempli gratia, to 
fill up the lacuna assumed by Schneider and Schanz : (MSS. 
Marg. and Stallb. read SiSaaKeu' for yr/pdaK-etv, Apelt. yepaipnv). 

1 742 C. 

2 i.e. for the bride's " trousseau," given by her father to 

466 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

thus to give assistance shall be declared by law to 
be both a cowardly and a bad citizen. 

Concerning dowTies it has been stated before,^ and 
it shall be stated again, that an equal exchange con- 
sists in neither giving nor receiving any gift ; nor is 
it likely that the poor amongst the citizens in this 
state should remain till old age unmarried for lack of 
means — for all have the necessaries of life provided 
for them — ; and the result of this rule will be less 
insolence on the part of the >vives and less humiliation 
and servility on the part of the husband because of 
money. WTioso obeys this rule will be acting nobly ; 
but he that disobeys — by giving or receiving for 
raiment ^ a sum of over fifty drachmae, or over one 
mina, or over one and a half minae, or (if a member 
of the highest property-class) over two minae, — 
shall owe to the public treasury a sum equal thereto, 
and the sum given or received shall be consecrated 
to Hera and Zeus, and the treasurers of these 
deities shall exact it, — ^just as it was the rule,^ in 
cases of refusal to marry, that the treasurers of Hera 
should exact the fine in each instance, or else pay 
it out of their own pockets. 

The right of betrothal belongs in the first place to 
the father, next to the grandfather, thirdly to the 
full brothers ; failing any of these, it rightly belongs 
next to relatives on the mother's side in like order ; 
in case of any unwonted misfortune, the right shall 
belong to the nearest of kin in each case, acting 
in conjunction with the guardians.* Concerning the 

the bridegroom. Fifty drachmae is the maximum value 
allowed for the lowest class, a mina for the next lowest, and 
so on upwards. 

» Cp. 774 B. 

* For these " guardians " (of orphans) see 926 E S 

467 



PLATO 

Be irpoTeXeia yd/x(ov ^ ri? dWrj TrepX rh, roiavra 
115 lepovpyia p.eW6vra>v rj 'yi'yvopivccv y yeyovoTcov 
TrpotrrjKOvcrd icrri TcXetaOai, tou? €^rfyr)Td<i ipco- 
Toivra Xph '^'^'' 'TeiOop.evov eKeivoi^; eKaarov ^yel- 
crOat TTcivra eavrw /xerptaj? ytyvecrOai. 

TiepX he TUiv earidcrecov, <^tXou9 p,ev ^(^pr) Kai 
<f)iXa<; p,7) TrXeiov^ irevTe eicarepwv avyKaXeiv, arvy- 
yevoiv Se kuI olKelwv a)aauT(o<; rocrovTOu^ aWov<i 
iicaTepcou' dvdXcofia he p,T] yiyvecrBai irXeov rj Kara 
TTjv ovaiav nTjhevi, Ta> /xev et? %/37;/u,aTa p^eyucnw 
B fxvav, Tu> S' TjfiLav rov roaovTOv, rat h ecpe^Pj-i ovro), 
Kaddirep viro^e^rjKev eKaarcp to rifiTj/JXt. koI tov 
fiev TreiOofievov tw vofiw eiraivelv ')(^pr) TravTw;, tov 
Be direidovvra /coXa^ourcov oi vop.O(^vXaK€<i &>? 
direipoKaXov re ovra koI diraiBevTov roiv irepi ra<i 
vvfi(f)tKd<; Moycra? v6p,a>v. iTLveiP Be et? fiedrjp 
ovre aXXoOi ttov TrpeTret, ttXtjv iv ral<; rov tov 
olvov BovTOf 6eov kopTai<;, ovB^ d(T(f)aXi<;, ovt ovv 
Br) irepl <ydfiov<i eanovBaKOTa, iv ol<; e/x(f)pova 
fidXicrra elvai vpeTrei vvp<prjv Koi vvp<f)LOv pera- 
C fioX-qv ov apiKpav ^iov p,6TaXXdTT0VTa<;, dpa Be 
Koi TO yevvwpbevov ottcw? otl pdXicTTa e^ ep(^povri3V 
del yiyvrjTai' a-^eBov yap dBrjXov ottolu vv^ t] (pco<; 
avTO yevv)']aei perd deov. kol irpb^ tovtoi<; Bel 
p,r) T(t)v awpbdrcov BLaKe')(ypeva)V viro pe6rj<^ 717^6- 
aOai, TT}V TTaiBovpyiav, dXX! evtraye^ d-KXave<i 
r/crv^^^alov re ev pr^rpa ^ ^vvicnaaOat, to (fevope- 
vov 6 Be Bia)vcop€vo<; avTo^ re ^eperai iravTrj 
KoX (pepei, XvTTCov kutu re acopa koi -xfruxv^' 

* ix-firpa Cornarius, England : fj.o(p:i MSS. 

1 Cp. 700 B, 722 D. 
468 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

preliminary marriage-sacrifice and all other sacred 
ceremonies proper to be performed before, during, 
or after marriage, each man shall enquire of the 
Interpreters, and believe that, in obeying their 
directions, he will have done all things duly. 

Concerning marriage-feasts, — both p>arties should 
invite their male and female friends, not more than 
five on each side, and an equal number of the kins- 
folk and connexions of both houses : in no case 
must the expense exceed what the person's means 
permit — one mina for the richest class, half that 
amount for the second, and so on in proportion, 
according as the valuation grows less. He that 
obeys the law should be praised .by all ; but him 
that disobeys the Law-wardens shall punish as a 
man of poor taste and ill-trained in the " nomes " * 
of the nuptial Muses. Drinking to excess is a 
practice that is nowhere seemly '^ — save only at the 
feasts of the God, the Giver of wine, — nor yet safe ; 
and certainly it is not so for those who take marriage 
seriously ; for at such a time above all it behoves 
both bride and bridegroom to be sober, seeing that 
the change in their life is a great one, and in order 
to ensure, so far as possible, in every case that the 
child that is begotten may be sprung from the loins 
of sober parents : for what shall be, with God's help, 
the night or day of its begetting is quite uncertain. 
Moreover, it is not right that procreation should be 
the work of bodies dissolved by excess of wine, but 
rather that the embryo should be compacted firmly, 
steadily and quietly in the womb. But the man 
that is steeped in wine moves and is moved himself 
in every way, writhing both in body and soul ; con- 

i p. 674 Af. 

469 



PLATO 

D (TTreipeiv ovv 7rapd(f)opo<i a/xa kol kuko^ o /J,e0v(ov, 
coct' avM/xaXa fcal airiaTa kol ovhev evOviropov 
r]do<i ovhe (Tw/jia i>c rwv ecKOToyv yevvMrj ttot dv. 
Bio fxaWnv fiev 6\ov tov ii'tavrov Kol ^iov XPV' 
/jLoXicrra Be oirocrop av fyevva '^povov, evXa^eladai 
KaX /jLt) TTpdrrecv p^rjre ocra vocrooBi] exovra elvai 
/Mtjre oaa v^pecof rj dBiKia<; ixop-eva' et? yap ra<; 
Tcov yevvco/jLevcov i/ru^a? koI aco/jtaTa dvayKoiov 

E i^ofiopyvv/jL€vov cKTvirovadai koL tlktciv iravrr} 
(pavXorepa' Bia(f)€p6vT(o<; Be eKeivrjv rrjv rjfiepav 
Koi vvKTU direxeadai rcov Trepl ra roiavTa' 
dpxh y^P '^"> ^ ^eo9 iv dvOpioirot^ lBpv/j.evi] aoo^ei 
irdvra, Tip.TJ<; iav tt}? TTpoarjKOvaT}^ avTjj irap 

NofMLaavra 8' eluai XPV '^^^ yafiovvra ralv 
776 OLKLatv ralv iv rw KKrjpm rrjv erepav olov veorroiv 
eyyevvr](nv koI Tpocpyjv, ^wpicr^eyra diro 7raTpo<i 
Kol /jLTjrpo^i rov yd/xov eKet TrotelaOai koI ttjv 
ocKr]criv koi ttjv Tpo(f>r}v avrov koI rSiV reKVwv. 
iv yap Tal<i <pi\iai<i eciv fiev tto^o? ivfj ti<;, koXXo, 
zeal crvvBel irdvra ijdr}' KaTaKoprf^ Be ^vvovcria 
Kal ovK taxovaa top Bia xp^i'ov ttoOov diroppelv 
dX\r]\oiv TTOiel vtrep^oXah TrXrjcrp.ovt]';. d)v Brj 
xdpiv firjrpl Kal irarpX Kal T0i9 t^9 yvvaiKO<; 
B otVetoi? TTapivTa'i XPV '^^'^ avrwv olKt](T€i<;, olov 
ei9 diroLKiav d(f)iKOfiivov<; avTOv^, e'7naK07rovvrd<i 
re dfia Kal eTTcaKOTrovfievovi oIksIv, yevvoivrd<i re 
KOL iKTpe(fiOVTa<; TraiSa?, KaOdrrep Xa/jLirdBa rov 

* iis Ast : Kol MSS. (Schanz brackets Koi Oths). 

^ For the importance of apx'fi (here personified) op. 753 E, 
765 E : possibly a^x^ iraj^et iraj/ra was a proverb. 
470 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

sequently, when drunk, a man is clumsy and bad at 
sowing seed, and is thus Hkely to beget unstable 
and untrusty offspring, crooked in form and character. 
Wherefore he must be very careful throughout all 
the year and the whole of his life— and most 
especially during the time he is begetting — to 
commit no act that involves either bodily ailment 
or violence and injustice ; for these he will in- 
evitably stamp on the souls and bodies of the off- 
spring, and will generate them in every way 
inferior. From acts of such a kind he must especi- 
ally abstain on the day and night of his marriage ; 
for the Beginning that sits enshrined as a goddess ^ 
among mortals is the Saviour of all, provided 
that she receives the honour due to her from 
each one who approaches her. 

The man who marries must part from his father 
and mother, and take one of the two houses^ 
in his allotment, to be, as it were, the nest 
and home of his chicks, and make therein his 
marriage and the dwelling and home of him- 
self and his children. For in friendships tiie 
presence of some degree of longing seems to 
cement various dispositions and bind them to- 
gether ; but unabated proximity, since it lacks 
the longing due to an interval, causes friends to 
fall away from one another owing to an excessive 
surfeit of each other's company. Therefore the 
married pair must leave their own houses to their 
parents and the bride's relations, and act themselves 
as if they had gone off to a colony, visiting and 
being visited in their home, begetting and rearing 
children, and so handing on life, like a torch,^ fi-om 

» Cp. 745 C, D. » Cp. Rep. 328 A. 

471 



PLATO 

^Lov "TrapaSiSovTaf; aWoi'; i^ aWwv, Oepairev- 
ovra<i ael deov<; Kara v6nov<;. 

Krij/jiaTa Be to fieTo. tovto irola av rt? kcktij- 
fievo^ ifM/xeXeardTTjv ovaiav KeKTfjro ; ra fxev ovv 
TToWa ouT€ vorjcrat ^aXeTror ovre Krrjaaadai, ra 
he 8r] Twv olKerSiV ■)(^a\eTra iravrr]. to 5' oitlov, 
ovK 6p6S)<i 7r<y9 Kai riva Tporrov 6p6a}<i irepl avroiv 
C \eyo/j.ev evavTia 'yap ral<i ^pelaif kuI Kara ra? 
'y^peia'i av iroLOVfieOa -rrepl SouXcov koI ra Xeyo- 
fieva. 

ME. n&)9 8' av rovro Xeyofiev ; ov yap ttco 
/j,av$dvofxev, o) ^eve, o ri ra vvv (t)pd^ei<i. 

A0. Kat fidXa ye, <w MeYiXXe, eiKor (!)<;• a'^eSov 
yap "TrdvTwv rmv 'KXXi'^vwv tj AaKeSaifxoviwv 
eiXoire'ia irXeiarrjv diropiav 7rapda')(^oir' av Kal 
epiv TOt? pev 0)9 ev, rot^ B co? ovk ev yeyovvid 
eariv iXdrray he rj re 'HpaKXecorcov SovXeia rrjs 
D TWi' MapiavBvvcov KaraBovXcoaeco<; epiv av e)(^oi, 
ro @erraXa)v r av Treveari/cov Wvo^. el<; a xal 
rrdvra rd roiavra ySXe-v^at-Ta? ripa<; ri ■^(pr] iroielv 
rrepl Knjcrecof; OiKerwv ; o Bi] irapicov ro) Xoyw 
€rv)^ov eliTcov, Kal av pe eiKoroa^ ri rrore (f>pd^oi/j,i 
rjptorrja-a'i, roK ecrriv i<rp,ev on rrov rrdvre<i 
etiroipev av a)<? ')(^pt) BovXov^ co? evpeveardrovi 
eKrijaOai Kal dptarovi' rroXXol yap dBeX(f)a)v -qBrj 
BovXoi Kal viewv rial Kpeirrovi 7rpb<; dperrjv 
rrdaav yevopevot aeacoKaai Bearrora^ Kal Krrj- 



* These ancient inhabitants of N. E. Bithynia were con- 
quered by the people of Heraclea Poutica and made tributary 
vassals. 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

one generation to another, and ever worshipping the 
gods as the laws direct. 

Next, as regards possessions, what should a man 
possess to form a reasonable amount of substance ? 
As to most chattels, it is easy enough both to see 
what they should be and to acquire them ; but 
servants present all kinds of difficulties. The reason 
is that our language about them is partly right and 
partly wrong ; for the language we use both con- 
tradicts and agrees with our practical experience of 
them. 

MEG. What mean we by this? We are still in 
the dark, Stranger, as to what you refer to. 

ATH. That is quite natural, Megillus. For pro- 
bably the most vexed problem in all Hellas is the 
problem of the Helot-system of the Lacedaemonians, 
which some maintain to be good, others bad ; 
a less violent dispute rages round the subjection 
of the Mariandyni ^ to the slave-system of the 
Heracleotes, and that of the class of Penestae to 
the Thessalians.2 In view of these and similar 
instances, what ought we to do about this question 
of owning servants?^ The point I happened to 
mention in the course of my argument, — and about 
which you naturally asked me what I referred to, — 
was this. We know, of course, that we would all 
agree that one ought to own slaves that are as 
docile and good as possible ; for in the past many 
slaves have proved themselves better in every form 
of excellence than brothers or sons, and have saved 

« Cp. Ar. Pol. 1269* 36. " Penestae " ( = serfs) were the 
old Aeolian inhabitants of Thessaly, subdued by the Heraclid 
invaders. 

» Cp. Ar. Fol. laSQ" 22 ffi. 

473 



PLATO 

E fiara rd<; re olKrjcr€i<i avrcov oXa^. ravra yap 
la-fiev TTov irepl BovXcov Xeyof^eva. 
ME. Ti fj,i]v ; 

Ae. OvKovv KoX rovvavTLov CO? vyce^i ovSev 
'\frv)^rj<i 8ovXr]^ ouSe TriCTTeveiv ouSeTror' ovBev ray 
yevei Bel rov vovv KeKT^fj^evov ; 6 Be ao^xoraro'i 

l)fJUV TMV TTOITJTCOV Kul UTT e<^ I^V UT O , Virkp TOV 

m A<09 ayopevcov, ax; 

fjpKJv yap re voov, (prjcrLV, aTrapeiperau evpvoira 

Zcu? 
dvBpwv ov<; av Br) Kara BovXiov rjpap eXrjcri. 

ravTa Brj BiaXa^6vTe<; eKacrroi roi? BiavorjpaaLV 
01 pev iriCTevovcri re ovBev yevet ocKeTcov, Kara 
Be drjplwv (^vaiv KevTpoi<; Kal pdart^iv ou rpi? 
povov, dXXd TToXXdKL<;, direpyd^ovTai BovXa^ ra? 
yjruxd^ Tcov olxeTcov' ol 3' au rdvavria tovtcov 
Bpoycn TTavra. 

ME. Tt pjjv ; 
B KA. Tfc ovv Br) ^(^pr) voieiv rovrayv, a) ^eve, 
Bia(f)€popeucov ovrco irepl T7)<; r)peTepa<; av %co/3a? 
r)pd^, Trj<i re KTrjaeoyf dpa Kal KoXdaeax; rSiV 
BovXcov Trepi ; 

A0. Tt B\ 0) KXeivla ; BrjXov tu? i-rreiBr) Bvcr- 
Ko\6v iari to dpeppa dvOpa>7TO<; Kal tt/jo? tt)v 
dvayKalav Biopiatv, to BovXov re epyw Biopi- 
^eadat Kal eXevdepov Kal BeaTrorijv, ovBapco<i 
CVXP'H'^TOV edeXei elval re Kal y'lyveadai. 

KA. ^aiverai. 

A0. XaXeirbv Br) ro Krrjpa' epyo) yap rroXXd- 

C KL<i eTTiBeSeiKrai irepl ra? ^leacrrjviiov (ru^i^a? 

elwdvia^ dTroardaei^ yiyveadai, Kal rrepL ye ra? 

474 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

their masters and their goods and their whole 
houses. Surely we know that this language is used 
about slaves ? 

MEG. Certainly. 

ATH. And is not the opposite kind of language 
also used, — that the soul of a slave has no soundness 
in it, and that a sensible man should never trust 
that class at all ? And our wisest poet, too, in 
speaking of Zeus, declared ^ that — 

"Of half their wits far-thundering Zeus bereaves 
Those men on whom the day of bondage falls." 

Thus each party adopts a different attitude of mind : 
the one places no trust at all in the servant-class, 
but, treating them like brute beasts, with goads 
and whips they make the servants' souls not merely 
thrice but fifty times enslaved ; whereas the other 
party act in precisely the opposite way. 

MEG. Just so. 

CLIN. Since this difference of opinion exists, 
Stranger, what ought we to do about our own 
country, in regard to the owning of slaves and 
their punishment ? 

ATH. Well now, Clinias, since man is an intract- 
able creature, it is plain that he is not at all likely 
to be or become easy to deal with in respect of the 
necessary distinction between slave and free-born 
master in actual experience. 

CLIN. That is evident. 

ATH. The slave is no easy chittel. For actual 
experience shows how many evils result from 
slavery, — as in the frequent revolts in Messenia, 
■and in the States where there are many servants 

* Odyas. xviL 322 f. 

475 



PLATO 

roi>v €K fiid<i <j)wvrj<; ttoXXou? olKera^ KTWfieviov 
7roXe«9, ocra kukcl ^vfi^atvet,, kol en Ta rwv 
\€jo/jL€vq}v jrepiSu'cov tmp Trepl rrjv ^IraXiav yi- 
yvofievcov TravTohaira [^Xottcoi/]^ ep'ya re Koi 
Trad^fiara. tt/jo? a Tf<? au ircivra ^ ^Xeyfra^; hia- 
TToprjaeie tl XP^ Bpav irepl airavTOiv tS)v toiov- 
Tcov. 8vo 8t) XeLTTeadov [xovdi /jLrjXavd, /xrjTe 

D 7rarpia)Ta<; aWi]Xo)v elvai tou? /xeXXoi'Ta? pdov 
hovXevaeiv dav/jLtpcovov; re et<? hvvaixLv on /xa- 
XitTTU, Tp€<petv 8' avTOV<i 6p6oi<s p>rj puovov eKeivwv 
evsKa, nrXeov he avrcov irporip.Syvra'i. tj 8e Tpocpr/ 
T(bv ToiovTcov fj,r]r€ nvd v^piv v^pi^eiv et? rot'? 
oiKera^, rjrrov Be, el hvvarov, dBiKelv rj tou? e^ 
laou. SidSrjXo^ yap o (f)va€L kol jjlt] irXaaJW'i 
aeBcdv TTfi' hiKtiv, /iicacov Be 6vrw<i to aBiKov, ev 
TOVTOi^ TOiv dvOpooTTayv ev ol<; avrw paBiov dhiKelv 
6 irepl rd twv BovXcov ovv tjOtj /cal vrpa^ei? yiyvo- 

E ixev6<i Tt9 dp,Lauro<; tov re dpocriou rrepi Koi 
uBLkov aireipeiv 6i9 dperrj^ €K(f)vaiv lKav(i)Taro<i 
dv eir]' ravTOP 8' ear eiirelv tovto 6p6(o<i dfxa 
Xeyovra eiri re Beairorr) koX rvpdvvm koX irdcrav 
Bvvaareiav Bvvaarevovn rrpos daOevearepov eav- 
rov. KoXd^etv ye p.rjv ev BuKrj covXov<; Bel, kuI 
fir) vovderovvra^i «)<? iXevdepovi dpvTrreoOab 
iroulv rrjv Be olKerov Trpocrprjo-iv ^PV o'^eSoi' 
eirira^Lv irdcrav ylyveaQai, purj 7rpo(nrai^ovra<i 
778 ixTjBafx^ p,r]Eap,(t)<; otKerai^, fiijr^ ovv 0'r)Xeiat<; 
firjre appeaiv d Brj TTpo? BovXov^ (piXovcn rroX- 
\ol (TcpoBpa dvoijro)'; 0pvrrrovre<f x^Xerroirepov 

* [K\oira>v\ bracketed by Naber, Schanz {KKwirwv Burges). 
' Uv vavra Stobaeua, Buruet : anavra MSS. 

476 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

kept who speak the same tongue, not to speak of 
the crimes of all sorts committed by the " Corsairs," * 
as they are called, who haunt the coasts of Italy, 
and the reprisals therefor. In view of all these 
facts, it is really a puzzle to know how to deal with 
all such matters. Two means only are left for us 
to try — the one is, not to allow the slaves, if they 
are to tolerate slavery quietly, to be all of the same 
nation, but, so far as possible, to have them of 
different races, — and the other is to accord them 
proper treatment, and that not only for their sakes, 
but still more for the sake of ourselves. Proper 
treatment of servants consists in using no violence 
towards them, and in hurting them even less, if 
possible, than our own equals. For it is his way 
of dealing with men whom it is easy for him to 
wrong that shows most clearly whether a man is 
genuine or hypocritical in his reverence for justice 
and hatred of injustice. He, therefore, that in deal- 
ing with slaves proves himself, in his character and 
action, undefiled by what is unholy or unjust will 
best be able to sow a crop of goodness, — and this we 
may say, and justly say, of every master, or king, 
and of everyone who possesses any kind of absolute 
power over a person weaker than himself. We 
ought to punish slaves justly, and not to make 
them conceited by merely admonishing them as we 
would free men. An address to a servant should 
be mostly a simple command : there should be no 
jesting with servants, either male or female, for by 
a course of excessively foolish indulgence in their 
treatment of their slaves, masters often make life 

* The peculiar term repiSivoi ("circling round") seems to 
have been applied especially to these sea-rovers of the 
Tarentine coast. 

477 



PLATO 

airepyd^eaOai top ^iov eKeivoi^ re ap-)(^ea6ai koI 
€avTol<i apx^iv, 

KA. '(.)pOoo<; Xeyei^. 

A0. OvKovv ore rt? oiKCTai^ Karea Kevaa fievo<; 
ei? hvvafXLv etrj irXijOei Kal iTTtrrjSeiorijri. Trpo? 
eKaaTWi ra? tmv epycov 7rapaf3or)d€La<;, to 8r) 
/lera tovto olK7](rei^ ^(^prj Siaypd^etv ra Xoycp ; 

KA. Hdvu jxev ovv. 
B A0. Kal ^u/j,7rdaT)<; ye (w? eTro? elirelv eoiKe 
Trj<i oiKoSojiLiKi)^ irepi rrjv ye Brj veav Kal doiK7]rov 
eu T(p TTpoaOev iroXcv iiri/xeXtjTeov elvai, rlva 
TpoTTov eKaara e^et tovtcov irepb re lepa koX 
reL')(ri. yafxcov S' rjv e/XTrpoadev ravra, o) K.\eii'la' 
vvv h eVetTre/j Xoyrp yiyverai, Kal fidX' iy)((opel 
Tavrrj yiyvecrOai rd vvv epyo) firjv orav yiyvrjrat,, 
ravT e/jLTTpoaOei' rSiv ydfjiwv, idv Oe6<; iOeXrj, 
C 7roir](Tavre<i eKelva rjhrj rare eirl irdai rol^ roiov- 
Toi<i aTTOTeXovp-ev. vvv he povov oaov rivd tvttov 
avTcov Bt 6Xiyu)v eire^eXOoypbev. 

KA. Tldvv p,ev ovv. 

A0. Ta p,ev Tolvvv lepd irdaav Trepi^ ti]v tc 
dyopdv 'xpr) KaraaKCvd^eiv, Kal rr)v ttoXcv oXrjv 
iv kvkXo) 7rpo<i rot? yi^j^Xoi? rojv rorrcov, evepKeLa<i 
re Kal KaOaponiro^ ')(^dpiv' Trpo<i he avTolf ol- 
Kijaei'i re dp-^^^ovrcov Kal hiKacrrt'jpia,^ iv 0I9 
Ta? hi,Ka<i fit)? lep(i)TdroL<i ovai Xi]^\rovrai re Kal 
D hcoaovcri, rd p.ev (u? oaicov rrepi, rd he Kal roiov- 
Tfov Oeoiv ihpupuara' Kal iv rovroi^ [hix^aary'jpia, 
iv 0I9] ^ ai re rS>v <^6vcov irpeTrovaat hiKai 
yiyvoivr dv Kal ocra davdrwv d^ia dhtKi]fiara. 

^ dtKarrrvpia Burges : StKaffrtiplMV MSS. 

* [SiKacTtipta, iv ols] bracketed by England. 

478 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

harder both for themselves, as rulers, and for their 
slaves, as subject to rule. 

CLIN. That is true. 

ATH. Suppose, then, that we are now, to the 
best of our power, provided with servants sufficient 
in number and quality to assist in every kind of 
task, should we not, in the next place, describe our 
dwellings ? 

CLIN. Most certainly. 

ATH. It would seem that our city, being new and 
houseless hitherto, must provide for practically the 
whole of its house-building, arranging all the details 
of its architecture, including temples and walls. 
These things are really, Clinias, prior to marriage ; 
but since our construction is now a verbal one, this 
is a very suitable place to deal with them ; when 
we come to the actual construction of the State, 
we shall, (jod willing, make the houses precede 
marriage, and crown all our architectural work with 
our marriage-laws. For the present we shall con- 
fine ourselves to a brief outline of our building 
regulations. 

cuN. Certainly. 

ATH. The temples we must erect all round the 
market-place, and in a circle round the whole city, 
on the highest spots, for the sake of ease in fencing 
them and of cleanliness : beside the temples we will 
set the houses of the officials and the law-courts, in 
which, as being most holy places, they will give and 
receive judgments, — partly because therein they deal 
with holy matters, and partly because they are the 
seats of holy gods : and in these will fittingly be 
held trials for murder and for all crimes worthv of 



479 



PLATO 

Trepl Be ret^wv, w Me7tX,Xe, 670)7' av rfi ^irdpTr) 
^VfxipepoLfirjv to KaOevSeiv idv iv rfj yfj fcara- 
Kei/jieva ra reixv f^o,! fit) iiravta-Tavat, rcovSe 
eiveKU. Ka\(0<; fiev koI 6 ttoltjtiko^ virep avrwv 
\o70? vfivelraL, rb ')(CL\.Ka koI atSrjpd Setv elvat, 
E ra T€L^r] jiidWov r) y/fiva' to S' ij/xeTepov cti 
TTpo'i TOVTOfi yiXayT av SiKaica 7rd/i7ro\w 0^X01, 
TO KUT eviavTov fiev eKTrifiTreip el<i ttjv ')(^copav 
Tovs veovf, TO, fjLev <TKdyJrovTa<;, to. 8e Tacppevaov- 
Ta9, TO, 8e Koi 8id Tivoov oiKoho^rjaewv elp^ovTa^ 
Tou? TToXeixiovi, ft)9 hi] TOiv optav TT]>i ')(a)pa<i ovk 
id(TOVTa<i iinQaiveiv, Tel^o^ Be Tvepv^aXoip.eda, 
TrpoiTov fxev Trpo<i liyieiav rat? iroXeaiv ov8a/JLa)<; 
(TVfKpepei, Trpo? Be Tiva fiaXdaKrjv e^iv Tai^ yjrv)(^al^ 
TOiv evoLKOvvTwv cccoOe TToieiv, TTpoKaXovfievov el<i 
avTO KaTa(f)evyovTa<; fii] dfivvecrdai tov<; ttoXc- 
' 79 filov<i, fjLTjBe TU> (ppovpelv del Tiva^ iv avTrj vvKTwp 
Kol fied^ ijfjiipav, tovtw Tr}<} ait)TT]pia<{ Tvy^d- 
veiv, Tct^ecrt Be koI TrvXai'i Btavoeladai <^pa- 
p^^et'Ta? T€ Kot Ka6evBovTa<; acoTrjpLa^ ovTU)<i e^eiv 
ixri-)(avd^, to? eVl to fiij irovelv yeyovoTw;, dyvo- 
ovvTa<i 5' av tt^v paaTcopyjv, eo9 6vT(o<i ecTiv €« 
T&v iroviov eK paaT(i)VT}<; Be ye, olfutt, Trj^ accr^pd<i 
oi TTOvoi Koi padvfXLa<i ire^iVKacn yiyvecrdai irdXiv 
a\X' el Btj Tel')(o<i ye ti xP^^^ dvOpcoTroi.^ elvai, 
B Ta9 olKoBofila<i XPV "^^^ '^^^ IBlwv olxTjaewv ovTQ)<i 
e^ apXTj") ^dXXecrdai, ottox; av rj it da a rj 7ro\ts 
ev Tet;^09, op-aXoTrjTl re Kal ofioioTrjaiv et<i Ta<i 
6Bov<i TratTcbv tq)v olK7]aecov exovacov evepKeiav 

» Unknown. Cp. Arist. Pol. 1330" 32 flf., and the saying of 
Lycurgus (quoted by Plutarch, Lyairg. xix.) ovk &y fin 
aTfixtCTos 'ir6\is Uns avSpdffi oh ir\lt/6on (aTe(pdya>Tat. " Earth ' 
480 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

death. As to walls, Megillus, I would agree with 
your Sparta in letting the walls lie sleeping in the 
ground, and not wake them up, and that for the 
following reasons. It is a fine saying of the poet,^ 
and often repeated, that walls should be made of 
bronze and iron rather than of earth. But our plan, 
in addition to this, would deserve to raise roars of 
laughter, — I mean the plan of sending young men 
into the country every year to dig and trench and 
build, so as to keep the enemy out^ and prevent 
their ever setting foot on the borders of the land — 
if we were also to build a wall round ; for, in the 
first place, a wall is by no means an advantage to 
a city as regards health, and, moreover, it usually 
causes a soft habit of soul in the inhabitants, by 
inviting them to seek refuge within it instead of 
repelling the enemy ; instead of securing their 
safety by keeping watch night and day, it tempts 
them to believe that their safety is ensured if they 
are fenced in with walls and gates and go to sleep, 
like men born to shirk toil, little knowing that ease 
is really the fruit of toil, whereas a new crop of toils 
is the inevitable outcome, as I think, of dishonour- 
able ease and sloth. But if men really must have a 
wall, then the building of the private houses must 
be arranged from the start in such a way that the 
whole city may form a single wall ; all the houses 
must have good walls, built regularly and in a similar 
style, facing the roads,^ so that the whole city will 

(like ir\iv6oi) here means really "stone," the soil of Greece 
being rocky. 

• Cp. 760 E. 

* These "roads" (or streets) would divide the city into 
blocks, surrounded by continuous walls formed by the outer 
circle of houses, all of the same size and shape. 

481 

VOL. I. R 



PLATO 

IBeiv re ovk arjSeii fj,id^ olKia<i <T'X^rj/j,a ixovcrrj'i 
avTr)<i, ei'? re Tr)v t?}? (f)vXaK7]<i pacrrtovqv oXft) 
KaX iravrl tt/Oo? (rcorrjpiav 'yiyvocT av Bcd(l)opo<i. 
TOVTcov Se &><? ^ av /jLevrj ^ to, kut ap^^a^; oIko- 
SofirjOei/ra, /xeXeiv fiev fiaXtara TOi<i ivoiKovcri 

C Trpiirov av etrj, Toy? he aarvvofiov; eiripeXeladaL 
Kal 7rpoaavayKd!^ovTa<; rov oXiyropovvTa ^rjpi- 
ovvra^, Kal iravrcov Sr) roiv Kara to aarv Ka- 
daporriTo^i r iTripeXeiadai, Kal ottco? l8icoTr]<; 
fjLr]Bel<; fir)Bev tmv t^9 7roXe&>9 /i?;Te olKoBopr]p,aat 
firfTe ovv 6pv'^p,a<TLv eiriXrjylreTai. Kal St) Kal 
vScLTcov Ta>v €K Aio'i €vpola<i TovTov<i eTrifieXeladai 
y^peuiv, Kal oaa ivTO^ TroXecof rj oiroaa e^a> irpeTTov 
av OLKelv etr). ravra Se irdvra ^vvtSovTa Tat? 

D 'y^peiai'i ol vopbo^v\aKe<; eirivofiodeTovvTcov Kai 
TMV aXkcov oirocra av 6 v6/j.o<; e'/cXeiTr?; 8i diroptav. 
ore 8e ravra re Kal ra irepl d<yopav oiKoBopripLara 
Kal ra rrepl ra yvp^vdcna Kal irdvra oaa BiSaa- 
KaXela KareaKevacr p.eva 'rrepip.evei rov<; (f)Oirrjra^ 
Kal 0eard<; Oearpa, iropevdipeda iirl rd fxerd rov<i 
iyd/jiov(;, rr]<i vofio6eal,a<: e^rj<i exofievoi. 
KA. Yidvv fxev ovv. 

A&. Tdfioi fiev roivvv rjfuv earwaav jeyovore'i, 
Si KXeivCa' Slaira 8e irpo iraiSoyovia'; ovk i\ar- 

E rcov evLavaia<i 'yi'yvoir av ro pxrd rovro, rjv 8r} 
riva rpoTTOv XPV Kv^ vv/j,(f)L0v Kal vvp,^r)v iv 
TToXei Siacfiepovar) roiv ttoWcov ecropevr), ro Bt} 
T&v vvv elpr]/jLevQ)v e^opievov elirelv, ov iravraiv 
evKoXforarov, dWd ovrcov ovk oXiywv ro)v e/i- 
trpoaOev roiovrcov rovro en eKeivcov rwv ttoWmv 
hvcT'xepecrrepov dTrohe')(^ea6at r& irXrjdei. ro ye 

» i>s Burnet : ?«i MSS. 
482 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

have the form of a single house, which will render 
its a^jpearanee not unpleasing, besides being far and 
away the best plan for ensuring safety and ease for 
defence. To see that the original buildings remain 
will fittingly be the special charge of the inmates ; 
and the city-stewards should supervise them, and 
compel by fines those who are negligent, and also 
watch over the cleanliness of everything in the city, 
and prevent any private person from encroaching 
on State property either by buildings or diggings. 
These officers must also keep a watch over the 
proper flowing of the rain-water, and over all other 
matters, whether within or without the city, that it 
is right for them to manage. All such details — and 
all else that the lawgiver is unable to deal with 
and omits — the Law-wardens shall regulate by sup- 
plementary decrees, taking account of the practical 
requirements. And now that these buildings and 
those of the market-place, and the gymnasia, and 
all the schools have been erected and await their 
inmates, and the theatres their spectators, let us 
proceed to the subject which comes next after 
marriage, taking our legislation in order. 

CLIN. By all means. 

ATH. Let us regard the marriage ceremony as 
now completed, Clinias ; next will come the period 
before child-birth, which will extend to a full year : 
how the bride and bridegroom ought to pass this 
time in a State that will be unlike most other 
States,— that is to be our next theme, and it is not 
the easiest of things to explain ; we have uttered 
not a few hard sayings before, but none of them 
all will the mass find harder to accept than this. 

■ /t€»^ Schneider : fiev ^ MSS. 

483 



PLATO 

firjv SoKovv opdov Kal dXrjde^ eivuL irdvrws 
py]T€ov, 0) KXeivCa. 

KA. Tldvv f.L€V ovv. 

A0. ' OcTTt? hi) hiavoeiTat iroXeaiv uTrocfiaLve 
780 aOai v6/mov^, tttj to, Srj/jLoaia /cat Koiva avTov<; 
XPV Kv^ irpdrrovTa'i, tmi> Se lSicov oaov dvdyKrj 
firjBe oterai Betv, i^ovalav he eKdaroc; elvai rrjv 
rj/j-epav ^fjv otto)? dv ideXrj, /cal /xt] irduTa hid 
Ttt^e&)9 heiv yiyveaBac, 7rpo€/jLevo<; he tu thia dvofio- 
deTTjTU rjyelrai rd ye Koivd kol hrjfioaia eOeXrjaeiv 
avTOVi ^7]v hia vofioyv, ovk 6p9oi<; hiavoelrai. 
TLVo<; ht) %«/3ti' ravra ecptjrai ; rovhe, on (fiyaofiev 
helv rjfilv tov? vvfi<^iov<i pbrjhev hia<f)€p6vT0)<; firjhe 
TjTTov ev ^va(Tnloi<; rrjv hiairav iroLelcrdaL rod 
B TTpo rSiv yajMav y^povov yevofievov. koX tovto 
fiev hrj dav/jLaarov bv ore Kar dpxa<; rrpcorov 
iyevero ev rot? Trap* iifilv roTroi^, TroXefiov ru>o<i 
avro, (W9 7' €Ik6<;, vopLoderrjaavro^; rj rivo<; erepov 
rrjv avr-qv hvvafiiv eyovro^ irpdypLaro^ ev oXiyav- 
6panrlaL<i vrro ttoXX^? aTropias e\oixevoL<i' yev- 
aajievoi^ he Kal dvayKaadelai 'XP^craaOaL rot? 
^vaairloi^ eho^e fxeya hrj ^epeiv ^ el<; awTrjpiav 
C TO vo/xifiov, Kal KareaTT) hrj rporrw rivl roiovrfp 
TO eTnrrjhev p.a vfilv ro rcov ^vaairiwv. 

KA. "EofATg yovv. 

A0. '^O hrj eXeyov, on davp.acrrov ov tovto 
TTOTe Kal (jio^epov eTrcrd^ai rial vvv ov'X^ 6/xol(o<i 

* Sii<f>fpeiv: Sta<i>tpt. y MSS. {(ptpetv e\. Schanz) 



» Cp. 821 A ; £pist. 7. 330 A, 
484 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

All the same, what we believe to be right and true 
must by all means be stated,^ Clinias. 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH. Whoever proposes to publish laws for 
States, regulating the conduct of the citizens in 
State affairs and public matters, and deems that 
there is no need to make laws for their private 
conduct, even in necessary matters, but that every- 
one should be allowed to spend his day just as he 
pleases, instead of its being compulsory for every- 
thing, public and private, to be done by a regular 
rule, and supposes that, if he leaves private conduct 
unregulated by law, the citizens will still consent 
to regulate their public and civil life by law, — this 
man is wrong in his proposal. For what reason 
have I said this ? For this reason, — because we 
shall assert that the m^irried people must take their 
meals at the public messes neither more nor less 
than they did during the time preceding marriage. 
When the customs of the public mess first arose in 
your countries — probably dictated by a war or by 
some event of equal potency, when you were short 
of men and in dire straits, — it seemed an astonishing 
institution ; but after you had had experience of 
these public messes and had been obliged to adopt 
them, the custom seemed to contribute admirably 
towards security ; and in some such way as that 
the public mess came to be one of your established 
institutions.- 

CLiN. That is likely enough. 

ATH. So, though this was once, as I said, an 
astonishing and alarming institution to impose on 
people, a man who tried to impose it as a law nowa- 

- Cp. Ar. Pol. 1272* 2 ff. 

48s 



PLATO 

T& 'irpo(ndrTOVTt,hvcr')(€pe<; av eirj vofjuodereiv avTo. 
TO 3' e^rjq tovtw, 7re<^f aco? re 6p65)<i av yi'yveadaL 
ytyvofievov, vvv re ovSafifj jiyvofjLepov, oXiyov [re] ^ 
TTOiovv rov voixoderrjv, to ro)v irai^ovroav, el<; 
TTvp ^aiveiv KoX fxvpia erepa roiavra avrjvvra 
D TTOVovvra ^ Spav, ov paSiov ovr elirelv ovr el-rTovra 
aiToreXelv. 

KA. Tt hr) rovro, w ^eve, e'iri')(eLpMV Xiyeiv 
eoiKa^ (T(f)6Bpa airoKvelv ; 

Ae. 'A-Kovoir^ av, iva firj ttoXXt) Siarpt^t) 
yiyvrjrat irepl rovr avro /jLarrjv. irdv fiev yap 6 
ri nrep av rd^eco^ Kal vofiov ^ere'xpv iv rroXei 
yiyvrjrai iravra dyada direpydi^erat, rayv Be 
drdKrwv 7) rcav KaKw<i ra^Oevroov Xvei rd TroXXd 
r&v ev rerayfievwv dXXa erepa, hrj Kal vvv 
€(f)earr}Ke trepl ^ ro Xeyofievov. v/xlv ydp, <5 
E KXeivia Kal M^eytXXe, rd p,ev vepl rov<; dvSpaf 
^vaalrca KaXo)^ dfia Kal oirep eliTov dav/xad-rco^i 
KaOearrjKev €K OeCa^ rivo^ dvdyKr]<;, ro Be irepl 
Ta9 yvvatKa^ ovBap.S)<s 6pd(o<i dvofxoOirrjrov 
781 fieOetrai Kal ovk et? to ^<w9 rjKrat ro rrji; ^vcrai- 
Tta? avrSiv eirirrjBevp.a, dXX! Kal dXXco<; yevo<: 
rjixoiv r5>v dvOpcoTrcov Xadpaiorepov fidXXov 
Kal eiTtKXoTrdirepov €<pv, to BfjXv, Bid ro 
dadeve<i, ovk 6pdoi<i rovro ei^avro^; rov vo/xoderov 
Bva-raKrov ov dc^eiOrj. Bid Be rovrov fxedeifievov 
iroXXd vfitv rrapeppei, iroXv d/xeivov av e-^ovra 
el vofxcov erv')(ev rj rd vvv ov ydp rjixiav fiovov 
icrriv, OD<i Bo^eiev dv, ro irepl rd<i yvvatKa's aKoa- 
« 
• * [t*] bracketed by Badham, England. 

' irovovvTa Ast, Schanz : iroiovvTa MSS. 

* % . . . irepl: oS . . . WptMSS., edd. (Tctpa Badham). 

486 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

days would not find it an equally difficult task. But 
the practice which follows on this institution, and 
which, if carried out, would be really successful, — 
although at present it nowhere is carried out, and 
so causes the lawgiver (if he tries) to be practically 
carding his wool (as the proverb has it) into the fire, 
and labouring in vain at an endless tale of toils, — 
this practice it is neither easy to state nor, when 
stated, to carry into effect. 

CLIN. Why do you show so much hesitation. 
Stranger, in mentioning this ? 

ATM. Listen now, so that we may not spend much 
time on the matter to no purpose. Everything that 
takes place in the State, if it participates in order 
and law, confers all kinds of blessings; but most 
things that are either without order or badly-ordered 
counteract the effects of the well-orderedl And it 
is into this plight that the practice we are discussing 
has fallen. In your case, Clinias and Megillus, 
public meals for men are, as I said, rightly and 
admirably established by a divine necessity, but for 
women this institution is left, quite wrongly, un- 
prescribed by law, nor are public meals for them 
brought to the light of day; instead of this, the 
female sex, that very section of humanity which, 
OM'ing to its frailty, is in other respects most 
secretive and intriguing, is abandoned to its dis- 
orderly condition through the perverse compliance 
of the lawgiver. Owing to your neglect of that 
sex, you have had an influx of many consequences 
which would have been much better than they now 
are if they had been under legal control. For it is 
not merely, as one might suppose, a matter affecting 
one-half of our whole task — this matter of neglecting 

48? 



PLATO 

B fjirjToo'i Trepiopco/xevov, oaw he rj drfkeia rjiuv <j)vai'; 
iari trpb^ dperrjv yeipwv Trj<i t5)v appivcoi , 
TOcrovTO) Bia^ipei tt/Oo? to irXeov r) ripaav ^ elvai. 
Tovr ovv eTravaXa/Seiv koI €TTavop6(ocracrdai kuI 
Travra avvrd^aadai KOivfj <yvvaL^l re Kal dv- 
opdaiv eiTLTr^hevp.aTa ^eXriov 7rp6<i TroXecof evBai- 
poviav. vvv he ovtco<; rJKrac to tmv dvdpcoTrwi' 
jevo<i ovhapoi<i eh tovto evrv)(^o}f;, cocrre ovh'e 
p,pr)<Tdrji'ai irepX avrov ev dXkoL<i <y ecrrl tottoi'; 

C Kal TToXecrc vovv ex,ovTo<;, ottov prjhe ^vcra'nia 
v'TTap)(ei TO rrapdirav hehoypeva /card iroXiv elvai. 
iroOev h-q Ti? 7e ep<y(p p,^ KarajeXdaTOO'i eTTi'^ei- 
ptjaei <yuvaiKa<i irpocr^id^ea-dai ttjv crtTtwi^ Kal 
TTOTOiv avdXwaiv (pavepdv decopelaOai ; tovtov 
yap ovK eariv o ti x^^Xeircorepov av VTTop^ivete 
TOVTO TO yevo^' etOiapevov yap hehvK6<; Kal ctko- 
reivov ^fjv, dyop^vov 8' et? 0(W9 /Sto irdcrav 
dvTiTaaiv dvTireiPov, ttoXu KpaTtjaei tov vop,o- 

D 6eTov TovT ovv dXXodt pev, rjirep elirov, ovh^ av 
TOV Xoyov VTTopeiveie tov opOov prjOevra dvev 
TrdcTT}^ ^orj^, evddhe he l'a(o<i av. el hrj hoKel 
Xoyov y eveKa prj dTV)(ri tov Tvepl Trd(r7j<; t^9 
7ro\tT6ta9 yeveaOai Xoyov, eOeXco Xeyeiv o)? dya- 
6ov icTTi Kal TrpeTToVfCl Kal a-(f>a>v ^vvBokcI dKOveiv 
el he p,7], eav. 

KA. 'AX,V, <w ^eve, davpaarS)^ to ye dKovaai 
V(pv 7rdvTci)<i rrov ^vvhoKcl. 

A0. ^ A.Kovwpev hr). davpd<jt]Te he p,T)hev idv 
vpiv dvcoOev TTodev em-xeipelv ho^w (j'x,oXr]<i yap 

E diroXavopev Kal ovhev i)pd<; ecrrl to KaTeirelyov to 
p,T] irdvTrj TrdvTco^ aKOirelv to Tvepl rov'i v6pov<i, 

^ ^Htffv : ^ivKactov MSS., edd. (cp. 767 E), 
488 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

to regulate women, — but in as far as females are 
inferior in goodness to males, just in so far it affects 
more than the half. It is better, then, for the 
welfare of the State to revise and reform this insti- 
tution, and to regulate all the institutions for both 
men and women in common. At present, however, 
the human race is so far from having reached this 
happv jKJsition, that a man of discretion must actu- 
ally avoid all mention of the practice in districts and 
States where even the existence of public meals is 
absolutely without any formal recognition. How 
then shall one attempt, without being laughed at, 
actually to compel women to take food and drink 
publicly and exposed to the view of all .- The 
female sex would more readUy endure anything 
rather than this : accustomed as they are to live r. 
retired and private life, women will use every means 
to resist being led out into the light, and they will 
prove much too strong for the lawgiver. So that 
elsewhere, as I said, women would not so much as 
listen to the mention of the right rule without 
shrieks of indignation ; but in our State perhaps 
they will. So if we agree that our discourse about 
the jxjlity as a whole must not — so far as theory 
goes — prove abortive, I am willing to explain how 
this institution is good and fitting, if you are equally 
desirous to listen, but otherwise to leave it alone. 

CLIN. Nay, Stranger, we are both inexpressibly 
desirous to listen. 

ATH. Let us listen, then. And do not be sur- 
prised if you find me taking the subject up again 
from an early point. For we are now enjoWng 
leisure, and there is no pressing reason to hinder us 
from considering laws from all possible points of view. 

48$ 



PLATO 

KA. 'Op^fti? etprjKWi. 

A0. UdXiv roivvv iirl ra irpSira i'Trava')((o- 
prjcrwfxev \e')(devra. eS lyap Bt) to ye roaovrov 
-X^pr] TrdvT dvhpa ^vvvoeiv, (09 r) rSiv dvOpcoTrav 
<yevecn<; 77 to "jrapdirav dp')(r)V ovScfiCav eCkij-y^ev 
782 oyS' e^et 7roT€ 76 reKevrrjv, dXhS rjv re del koX 
earai irdvra)^, rj fiyKo^ ti [t^9 dp^rjii] ^ d<\i ov 
yeyovev d/iii]')(^avov [av Xpovov] ^ oaov yeyovo'i av 
eir). 

KA. Tt jJLrjv ; 

A®. Tt ovv ; TToXetov (TvarTda-ei^ Kal ^6opd<; 
Kal eTnrrjBev/iara iravrola rd^€(o<: re Kal dra^Lw; 
Kal ^pcoa€(o<i ^ (koI irco/judTcov re dfia Kal ^pcofidrfov) 
iTTiOvfMij/xara iravrohaird irdpTco'; Kal irepl iraaav 
rrjv yrjv dp* ouk olofieOa yeyovkvai, Kal crTpo(f)d<; 
wpwv TravTOta^, iv al? rd ^(oa fiera^dWeiv avr&i 
P> 7rap,7r\r]dei<; fxera^oXd^ elKo<i ; 

KA. IIw? yap ov ; 

Ae. Tt ovv ; iriaTevofMev dfnre\ov<; re ^avrjvai 
TTOV TTore irporepov ovk ovaa<i ; dxravTco^ Be kol 
iXda<i Kol rd ^rj [I'qr p6<i re Kal K.6pr}<; B&pa ; 
TpnrroXe/Liov re riva rcov rotovrcov yevecrOai 
BidKovov ; ev «S Be firjBe ravra rjv 7ra> * XPovfjp) 
fiS)v OVK olofxeda rd ^oja, Kaddirep vvv, eirl rrjv 
dW^Xoyv eBwBrjv rpenea-Bat, ; 

KA. Tt fjL'qv ; 



1 [rrjs apxvs] bracketed by Ast. 
' [&»' XP^"""} I bracket (xp^fov Ast). 



490 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

CUN. Very true. 

ATH. Let us, then, revert again to our first state- 
ments.^ Thus much at least every man ought to 
understand, — that either the human race never had 
a beginning at all, and will never have an end, but 
always was and always will be, or else it must have 
been in existence an incalculable length of time from 
the date when it first began. 

CLIN. Undoubtedly. 

ATH. Well then, do we not suppose that all the 
world over and in all sorts of ways there have been 
risings and fallings of States, and institutions of 
every variety of order and disorder, and appetites 
for food — both meats and drinks — of every kind, 
and all sorts of variations in the seasons, during 
which it is probable that the animals underwent 
innumerable changes ? 

CLIN. Certainly. 

ATH. Are we to believe, then, that vines, not 
previously existing, appeared at a certain stage ; and 
olives, likewise, and the gifts of Demeter and Kore ? ^ 
And that some Triptolemus was the minister of such 
fruits ? And during the period that these fruits 
were as yet non-existent, must we not suppose that 
the animals turned, as they do now, to feeding on 
one another. 

CLIN. Of course, 

1 676Aflf. 

* Or Persephone, daughter of the Earth-mother, Demeter. 
Triptolemus was a mythical hero of Eleusis, worshipped as 
the inventor and patron of agriculture. 

* Ast and Schanz brsMiket koI Pfxiffeui : I mark the next 
six words as parenthetic (<rTpw/uaT«v for ^paiixaraiv Apelt). 

* »« England : rif MSS. 

491 



PLATO 

C A0. To Be fxr]v dveiv avdp(07rov<; a\,\i]\ov<; en 
Koi vvv irapafievov opw/xev 7roWoi<;' Kal rovvav- 
TLOV aKOvo/iiev ev aWoi^, ore ovhe ^oo<i iroXficov 
fiev ^ yeveadai dvixard re ovk rjv toU deolcri ^wa, 
ireKavoi he /cal /xeXni Kapirol SeSev/xevoi Kal 
TOiavra aXXa dyva Ovfiara, crapK&v 8' airei'x^ovTO 
<W9 ou;^ oaiov ov iadieiv ovhe tov<; rwv dewv 0a>fwv<; 
atfiari /xtaiveiv, dWa ^Op(f)CKoC rive^ Xeyofievoi 
^loi iyiyvovTo rjpbSiv Toi<; totc, dylrv)(^(i)V jiiev 
D ix^o/xevot iravTcov, e/u,yp-v)(^cov he rovvavriov ttuvtcov 
aTre^ofievoi. 

KA. Kat a(p6hpa Xeyofieva a y eipr]Ka<i, koli 
TTLareveadaL iridavd. 

A0. 11/009 ovv hr) Tt ravra, etiroi rt? av, vfilv 
irdvT ipprjOr) rd vvv ; 

KA. 'Opdo)^ vTreXa^a, Si ^eve. 

A0. Kai TOLVvv, idv hvvco/xai, rd rovTOi<i €^rj<i, 
o) KXeivia, Treipdaop.ai- (f>pd^ecv. 

KA. Aeyoif; dv. 

A0. 'Opoi irdvra to?9 dvdpcoTroi<; e« t/cxttt}? 
')(peCaq Kal i7n6v/xla<; rjprrj/jLeva, hi mv dpeTrj re 
E avTol<i dyo/jLevoa 6p0co<i Kal Tovvavriov diro^alvei 
KaK(o<i d'xPelai. ravra h' earlv ihcohr) p.ev Ka\ 
7r6(rt^ evOv<i yevcfjb€Voi<;, rjv rrepi diraaav irdv ^wov 
ep,(f>vrov epcora e^ov, jxearov otarpov r ecrn Kal 
dvT]KovarLa<i rov Xeyovro^ dWo ri helv irpdrretv 
rrXr^v to? 'qhovd'i Kal eiriOv/iLa^ rd<; jrepl drravra 
ravra diroirX.'qpovvra'i ^ \v7rr]<; tt)? dTrdarjf; dphr)v * 
783 (T^d<i diraWdrreLV rplrrj he jj/jlIv kov fieyicrrr] 



1 4r6\fi<iov ixtv Schanz : iro\jxS>niv MSS. 

" airoTTXriPovvras : wnoTrKfipovvra MSS,, ^dd* 



49' 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

ATH, The custom of men sacrificing one another 
is, in fact, one that survives even now among many 
peoples ; whereas amongst others we hear of how 
the opposite custom existed, when they were for- 
bidden so much as to eat an ox, and their offerings 
to the gods consisted, not of animals, but of cakes of 
meal and grain steeped in honey, and other such 
bloodless sacrifices, and from flesh they abstained as 
though it were unholy to eat it or to stain with 
blood the altars of the gods ; instead of that, those 
of us men who then existed lived what is called an 
" Orphic life," keeping wholly to inanimate food and, 
contrariwise, abstaining wholly from things animate. 

CLIN, Certainly what you say is widely reported 
and easy to credit. 

ATH. Someone might ask us — " For what pur- 
pose have you now said all this? " 

CLIN. A correct surmise. Stranger. 

ATH. So I will try, if I can, Clinias, to explain 
the subject which comes next in order. 

CLIN. Say on. 

ATH. I observe that with men all things depend 
on a threefold need and desire, wherein if they pro- 
ceed rightly, the result is goodness, if badly, the 
opposite. Of these desires they possess those for 
food and drink as soon as they are bom ; and about 
the whole sphere of food every creature has an 
instinctive lust, and is full of craving, and quite deaf 
to any suggestion that they ought to do anything 
else than satisfy their tastes and desires for all 
such objects, and thus rid themselves entirely of all 
pain. Thirdly comes our greatest need and keenest 

* ipiriy : id Sctr MSS. (Ast bracket* Sth) 

493 



PLATO 

ypeta Koi epco^ o^vTaTO<i v<naTO<i fikv opfidrai, 
SiaTTVpcoTCLTOv^ Sc Toi'9 av6 pwTTOv^ fiaviat^; airep- 
ya^€Tac irdvrw'i, o irepX rrjv lov yevov<; arropav 
v^pei irXeicrry Kaofi€vo<i. a Br) Bel rpla voarjjxara 
rpeirovTa^^ ei? to ^eXTiarov irapa ro Xeyop^evov 
rjSiaTOV rpial fiev rotf fxeyiaroi^ ireipaaOai, 
KaT€^€iv, (f)6^q) Kul v6p.(p Kol TW aXrjOel Xoyw, 
irpoa-x^pcofievovf; fiivTOi Movaai'i re koI aywvloiai 
6eoi<i afievvvvai rrjv av^rjv re xal iirippo^v. 
B UaiScov Be Bt] yeveaiv fiera rov^ ydpov; OSifiev, 
KoX fieTO, yeveaiv Tpo(f>T}v koX iratBelav. kol rd')^ 
av ovTco irpolovTcov rwv Xoytov 6 re v6/xo<i r)p!iv 
€Kaaro<! irepaivono el<i Tovfxirpoadev, <Kat> ^ eirl 
^vacTiTia -qvLK av d(^iK(i)p,eda, Ta<i TOiavTa<i 
Koivwvia^ eXre dpa yvvaiKOiv elre dvBpcov Bel 
fxovcov yiyvecrOai, irpoap-i^avTe^ avTol<; iyyvdev 
L(Ta)<; fidWov KaToyfrofieda, rd re eiriTrpoadev 
avTcov, en vvv ovra dvo/JLoderrjTa, rd^avre'i aWa 
C eTTirrpoaOev TroiTjao/xeda, Kol oirep eppijOr] vvv Bi], 
KUTO'^ofiedd T€ avrd aKpi^ecmpov fiaXXov re 
TOI'9 7rpocn]KovTa<: avTOi<i Kal rr peirovra'i vo/mov^ 
dv deirjfjLev. 

KA. ^Opdorara Xeyei<i. 

A0. ^vXd^co/jLev Toivvv TTJ /xvyj/irj t^ vvv Bt) 
Xe)(9evra' La-Q)<i yap '^pelav iror avTtov TrdvTtov 
e^o/xev. 

KA. Ta TTOta Brj BiaKeXevei ; 

A0. ' A Tot? rpcal Bieopi^ofieOa pijfxaar ^paxriv 
fj,€v eXeyofiev ttov, Kal Bevrepov iroaiv, Kal d<f)po- 
D Bicricov Be riva Biatrrorjaiv rpirov, 

1 rptirovTcs Stephens : Tpeirovra MSS. 

■^ ^'C£'")> I add, and read rjvW &«/ a<piKcl>Mt6a for rivina afiKifit- 
6a of MSS (Zur. and Aid. add tls after a<i>ix6fie0a), 

494 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

lust, which, though the latest to emerge, influences 
the soul of men with most raging frenzy — the lust 
for the sowing of offspring that burns with utmost 
violence. These three morbid states^ we must direct 
towards what is most good, instead of what is 
(nominally) most pleasant, trying to check them by 
means of the three greatest forces — fear, law, and 
true reasoning, — reinforced by the Muses and the 
Gods of Games, so as to quench thereby their in- 
crease and inflow. 

So let us place the subject of the production of 
children next after that of marriage, and after their 
production, their nurture and education. If our dis- 
course proceeds on these lines, possibly each of our 
laws will attain completion, and when we come to the 
public meals, by approaching these at close quarters 
we shall probably discern more clearly whether such 
associations ought to be for men only, or for women 
as well ; and thus we shall not only prescribe the 
preliminaries that are still without legal regulation, 
and place them as fences before the common meals, 
but also, as I said just now, we shall discuss more 
exactly the character of the common meals, and thus 
be more likely to prescribe for them laws that are 
suitable and fitting. 

CLIN. You are perfectly right. 

ATH. Let us, then, bear in mind the things we 
mentioned a moment ago ; for probably we shall 
need them all presently, 

CLIN. \\ hat are the things you bid us remember? 

ATH. Those we distinguished by the three terms 
we used : we spoke, you recollect, of eating, secondly 
of drinking, and thirdly of sexual excitement. 

1 The soul is in a "diseased " state when wholly dominated 
by any irrational desire or passion. 

495 



PLATO 

KA. TIdvTa)<;, oi ^eve, fiefivi^aofJiedd ttov 0)v to. 
vvv BiaKeXevei. 

A0. K<2\w9. eXdwfiev h cttI ra vv/j,(piKd, 
BiBd^ovTe<i re avrov<i ttco? ^p^ Kal TLi>a Tpoirov 
rov<t 7raiBa<; TroielaOac, kcu iav dpa /jlt) Treidoy/iiev, 
dTTeCkrjaovre^ riac v6fj,oi<i. 

KA. IIco? ; 

A0. l>lv/u,(f)r)v ■)(^pri Bcavo€ia0ac Kol vvfi<^iov to? 
on KaWi(7Tov<i kol dpLcrrov<i eh 8vva/xiv aTroBei- 
E ^opevov^ TTatSa? rfj TroXci. Travre^ o' dvOptoiroi, 
KOLVwvol Trdar)^ Trpd^eco^;, rjviKa pev av Trpoaexf^- 
criv avTol<i re kol tt] irpd^ei tov vovv, irdvTa KoKa 
Koi d-yadd aTrepyd^ovTUi, p^rj TrpoarexpvTe'i he rj pr) 
eyovTeff vovv rdvavTLa. •rrpoae'X^eTa) 8r) koI o 
vvp,(f>L0<; T^ re vvp,(f>T} Koi rfj TraiBoTroiLo. tov vovv, 
Kara ravrd Be Kal 17 vvp,(f)r}, tovtov top ')(povov 
8ia(f)ep6vTa)<; ov av p,r]TTa) 7rai8e<; avTOi'i wen yeyo- 
784 2^0T69. eiTLCfKO'TTOL S' eaTcoaav tovtcov a? ei\6p,eda 
yvvaiKef, TrXetou? etr e\dTTOv<;, rot? dp^ovaiv 
OTToaa? dv Sokj} irpoardTretv re Kal oirorav, irpo^ 
TO T'^S" WiXeiGvias lepov eKdcrrr]? rjp,epas ^vXXe- 
y6p,€vaL p^exp'' Tpirov piepovs [(x)pas], ^ ol St) ovXXe- 
ydelcrai BLayyeWovrcov dXX.i]\ai<i ei Tt9 Ttva opa 
•Trpo<i aX-V aTra ^Xeirovra dvSpa rj Kal yvvaiKa 
Toi)V TraiBoTToiovp,eva)V rj irpof rd Terayp^eva vtto 
TMV ev TOi<i ydp,0L^ OuaLcov re Kal lepwv yevop,evci)v. 
B rj Be iraiBoTTOiia Kal (j)v\aKi] rcbv 7raiBo7roiovp,evci)v 
Se«eTt? ecrray, p,r) irXeLQ) Be ')(^p6vov, orav evroia ^ 
rrj<i yeveae(a<;.. dv Be dyovoC Tive^ eh tovtov 
yiyvcovTab tov ')(p6vov, p.era tcov oiKeiayv Ka- 
1 [ojpas] I bracket. 

^ Goddess of childbirth. 
496 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

CLIN. We shall certainly remember the things 
you now bid us. Stranger. 

ATM. Very good. Let us now come to the 
nuptials, so as to instruct them how and in what 
manner they ought to produce children, and, if we 
fail to persuade them, to threaten them by certain 
laws. 

CLIN, How ? 

ATH. The bride and bridegroom must set their 
minds to produce for the State children of the 
greatest possible goodness and beauty. All people 
that are partners in any action produce results that 
are fair and good whensoever they apply their minds 
to themselves and the action, but the opposite 
results when either they have no minds or fail to 
apply them. The bridegroom, therefore, shall apply 
his mind both to the bride and to the work of pro- 
creation, and the bride shall do likewise, especially 
during the period when they have no children yet 
born. In charge of them there shall be the women- 
inspectors whom we have chosen, — more or fewer of 
them, according to the number and times of their 
appointments, decided by the officials ; and they 
shall meet every day at the temple of Eileithyia,^ fur, 
at the most, a third part [of the day] ; ^ and at their 
meetings they shall report to one another any case 
they may have noticed where any man or woman of 
the procreative age is devoting his attention to other 
things instead of to the rules ordained at the 
marriage sacrifices and ceremonies. The period of 
procreation and supervision shall be ten years and no 
longer, whenever there is an abundant issue of off- 
spring ; but in case any are without issue to the end 
of this period, they shall take counsel in common to 

* I.e., presumably, for as much as 8 hours when necessary. 

497 



PLATO 

dpxovacov <yvvaiicSiv 8ia^evyvua-0ai Koivfj jSovXevo- 
fievov^ etf TO, Trpocrc^opa eKarepoc<;. iav 8' a/j,(f)i- 
<r^t]TT]al<; ti? yiyvrjTai irepX tmv eKurepoc^i trpeirov- 
Toov Kal 7rpo(r<f)6pa)v, BeKU tmv vop,o(f)vXdKQ)V eXo- 

G /xevov<i, ol'i av eTTiTpe-^coaiv oXh^ fj ^ Ta^coai, rovTOL<; 
i/nfieveiv. eia-tovaai 8' et? ra? olKia^ rcov vecov al 
'yvvalKe<;, ra fikv vovderoixrai, ra he koX direi- 
Xovaat TravovTcov avTOv<; t^? dp,apTLa<i koI dp.a- 
6ia<;' iav 8' dSwarcoa-L, Trpo? tov<; vopo(f}v\aKa<i 
loixTai (f)pa^6vTcov, ol 8 elpyovTwv. dv 8e Koi 
SKelvoL 7ra)9 d8vvaTi](Tcoac, 7rpo9 to 8r}p,6aiov diru- 
(prjvdvTwv, dvaypdyp-avri^ re kcu opLOcravre^ rj pr)v 
dhwarelv top Kal top /SeXTtw iroieiv 6 8e 

D dvaypacfiel'i dTCfio<i earca, /xr) eXoov iv SiKacnrjpLw 
Tou? iyypdyjravTa^i, rwvhe' fnjre yap et? ydpov<; 
Xra> fi7]Te et? ra? twi/ Traihwv eTnTeXeicocrei^, dv Se 
irj, 7rXr)yai<i 6 ^ovX7]6eL<i dda)o<i avrov KoXa^eTCO. 
rd avrd 8e kuI irepl yvvaiKo<; ecrrct) voptfia' r&v 
i^ohcov yap tmv yvvatKeLcov Kal rip^utv Kal roiv el<i 
TOv<i yd/j,ov<; Kal yevedXia ^ rwv iraihwv (^oirrja-ecov 
fiT] /xerex^Td), iav aKoa/xovaa Q)aavTa)<s dvaypa<f)'!] 
Kal fiT) eXrj rrjv 8iKr]V. 

E "Orav 8e 8r) 7ral8a'i yevvrja-covrai KarcL vofiovf, 
idv dXXorpia ti^ irepl rd roiavra kolvoovt] yvvaixl 
rj yvvT] dvhpi, idv fiev •rrai8o7roiovp,evoi<; en, ra 
avrd iiri^ijfiia avroi^ earco Kaddrrep rol^ en 
yevvcopevoii; e'iprjrar jxerd 8e ravra o fxev (X(i}(f)po- 
vcov Kal crQ)(f)povovcra el<i rd roiavra earco rrdvra 
€v86KifjiO<i, 6 Se rovvavriov ivavr(,o)<i rifidaOo), 



» o?5' tj Ritter : oJSe MSS. : ol Se koI Zur., vulg. 
* yfvf6\ta Burnet : ytv^ffia MSS. 



498 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

decide what terms are advantageous for both parties, 
in conjunction witli their kindred and the women- 
officials, and be divorced. If any dispute arises as 
to what is fitting and advantageous for each party, 
thej shall choose ten of the Law-wardens, and abide 
by the regulations they shall permit or impose. 
The women-inspectors shall enter the houses of the 
young people, and, partly by threats, partly by 
admonition, stop them from their sin and folly : if 
they cannot do so, they shall go and report the case 
to the Law-wardens, and they shall prevent them. 
If they also prove unable, they shall inform the State 
Council, posting up a sworn statement that they are 
"verily unable to reform So-and-so." The man that 
is thus posted up, — if he fails to defeat those who 
have tiius {wsted him in the law-courts, — shall suffer 
the following disqualifications : he shall not attend 
any marriage or children's birthday feasts, and if he 
does so, anyone who wishes may with impunity 
punish him v\-ith blows. The same law shall hold 
good for the women : the offender shall have no 
part in women's excursions, honours, or invitations 
to weddings or birthday feasts, if she has been 
similarly posted up as disorderly and has lost her suit. 
And when they shall have finished producing 
children according to the laws, if the man have 
sexual intercourse with a strange woman, or the 
woman with a man, while the latter are still within 
the procreative age-limit, they shall be liable to the 
same penalty as was stated for those still producing 
children. Thereafter the man and woman that are 
sober-minded in these matters shall be well-reputed 
in every way ; but the opposite kind of esteem, or 
rather disesteem, shall be shown to persons of the 

499 



PLATO 

785 jxaWov 8e art^a^ecrdu). koX /aerpia^ovrcov fiev 
Trepi ra roiavra roiv irXeiofcov avo/.ioOeTr]Ta aiyrj 
Ketcrda), aKoajxovvTwv he vofiodeTrjOivra ravTrj 
irpaTTeaOw kutu roy? tots TedevTa<{ v6piOv<i. 

Biou ixev oi-pxh "^^^ rravTO'i €KdcrT0i<; 6 TrpcoTO^ 
eviavTo^' bv <yeypd(f)6ai \p60iv iv lepolcrc Trarprpoa 
^0)7]^ dp')(r)v Koptp Kol KopD' 7rapay6ypd(f>6ai.^ S' iv 
TOi)(^(p XeXevKMfievo) iv rrdarj (^parpia rov dptOfibv 
rSiv dp)(^6vTcov tS)v iirX tol^ erecnv dpidfiovfievcov. 
T?}? Be ^parpia^ del rov<; ^6)VTa<i fiev 'y6ypd(pdai 
B ttXtjo-lov, tov<; 8' v7reK')(U)povvTa^ rov ^lov i^aXei- 
<beiv. ydfxov he opov elvai Koprj fiev diro e/cKai- 
0€Ka iTMv eh eiKocri, rov /xaKporaTOv ')(p6vov 
dcfxopia/jLevov, Kopw Se diro Tpid/covra p-expt tcov 
irevri xal rpidKovra. eh Be dp^d^ yvvaixl fiev 
rerrapdKovra, dvBpl Be TpiaKOvra errj' TTyoo? TroXe- 
fiov Be dvBpl /xev €ifco<ri fJ-expi' tcov e^iJKovra irwv 
yvvaiKL Be, rjv dv Boktj ^j^/oetay Belv xprjaOai irpo'i 
rd TToXe/jLiKd, iirecBdv iralBa'; yevvrjar], to Bvvarov 
Kul TTpeirov eKdarai^ TrpoaTaTTecv /^^XP^ '^^^ 
irevrrjKOVTa eVwj/. 

*■ trapayfypdcpdai Orelli, Schauz : irapayfypa.<(>6(c MSS. 



SO9. 



LAWS, BOOK VI 

opposite character. Sexual conduct shall lie un- 
mentioned or unprescribed by law when the majority 
show due propriety therein ; but if tliey are dis- 
orderly, then what is thus prescribed shall be 
executed according to the laws then enacted. 

For everyone the first year is the beginning of the 
whole life : it ought to be inscribed as life's beginning 
for both boy and girl in their ancestral shrines : 
beside it, on a whited wall in every phratry, there 
should be written up the number of the archons 
who give its number to the year ; and the names of 
the living members of the phratry shall be written 
always close together, and those of the deceased shall 
be erased. The limit of the marriage-age shall be 
from sixteen to twenty years — the longest time 
allowed — for a girl, and for a boy from thirty to 
thirty-five. The limit for official posts shall be forty 
for a woman and thirty for a man. For military 
services the limit shall be from twenty years up to 
sixty for a man ; for women they shall ordain what 
is possible and fitting in each case, after they have 
finished bearing children, and up to the age of fifty, 
in whatever kind of military work it may be thought 
right to employ their services. 



501 



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Achilles Tatixts. S. Gaselee. 

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Things Heard, Mechanical Problems, On Indivisible Lines, 
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On Coming to be and Passing Away, On the Cosmos. E. S. 
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A. T. Mvirray. 
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Menander. F. G. Allinson. 
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Demades, Dinarchus, Hypereides). K. J. Maidment and 

J. O. Burrt. 2 Vols. 
Nonnos: Dionysiaca. W. H. D. Rouse. 3 Vols. 
Oppian, Colluthus, Tryphiodorus. a. W. Mair. 
Papyri. Non-Literary Selections. A. S. Hunt and C. C. 

Edgar. 2 Vols. Literary Selections (Poetry). D. L. 

Page. 
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Pausanias: Description of Greece. W. H. S. Jones. 4 

Vols, and Companion Vol. arranged by R. E. Wycherley. 
PmLO. 10 Vols. Vols. I.-V.; F. H. Colson and Rev. G. H. 

Whitaker. Vols. VI.-IX.; F. H. Colson. 
Philo: two supplementary Vols. (Translation only.) Ralph 

Marcus. 
Phtlostratus : The Life of Apollonius or Tyana. F. C. 

Conybeare. 2 Vols. 
Philostratus : Imagines; Callistratus : Descriptions. A. 

Fairbanks. 

6 



PniLOSTBATUs and EuNAPius: Lives of thb Sophists. Wilmer 

Cave Wright. 
Pindar. Sir J. E. Sandys. 
Plato: Chabmides, Alcibiades, Hipparchus, The Lovers, 

Theages, Minos and Epinomis. \V. R. M. Lamb. 
Plato: Cbatylus, Parmexides, Greater Hippias, Lesser 

HiPPiAS. H. N. Fowler. 
Plato: Euthyphro, Apology, Cbito, Phaedo, Phaedrus. 

H. N. Fowler. 
Plato: Laches, Peotagobas, Meno, Euthydemus. W. R. M. 

Lamb. 
Plato: Laws. Rev. R. G. Bury. 2 Vols. 
Plato: Lysis, Symposium, Gorgias. W. R. M. Lamb. 
Plato: Republic. Paul Shorey. 2 Vols. 
Plato: Statesman, Philebus. H.N. Fowler; Ion. W. R. M. 

Lamb. 
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Rev. R. G. Bury. 
Plutarch: Morat.ta. 15 Vols. Vols. I.-V. F. C. Babbitt. 
Vol. VI. W. C. Helmbold. Vol. VII. P. H. De Lacy and 
B. Einarson. Vol. IX. E. L. Minar, Jr., F. H. Sandbach, 
W. C. Helmbold. Vol. X. H. N. Fowler. Vol. XII. H. 
Cherniss and W. C. Helmbold. 
Plutarch: The Parallel Lives. B. Pcrrin. 11 Vols. 
PoLYBitrs. W. R. Paton. 6 Vols. 

Procopius: History of the Wabs. H. B. Dewing. 7 Vols. 
Ptolemy: Tetbabiblos. Cf. Manetho. 
Quintus Smybnaeus. a. S. Way. Verse trans. 
Sextus Empibicus. Rev. R. G. Bury. 4 Vols. 
Sophocles. F. Storr. 2 Vols. Verse trans. 
Stbabo : Geography. Horace L. Jones. 8 Vols. 
Theophbastus : Chabactebs. J. M. Edmonds. Hebodes, 

etc. A. D. Knox. 
Theophbastus: Enquiry into Plants. Sir .4rthur Hort, 

Bart. 2 Vols. 
Thucydides. C. F. Smith. 4 Vols. 
Tbyphiodobus. Cf. Oppian. 

Xenophon: Cybopaedia. Walter Miller. 2 Vols. 
Xenophon: Hellenica, Anabasis, Apology, and Symposium. 

C. L. Brownson and O. J. Todd. 3 Vols. 
Xenophon : Memobabilia and Oeconomicus. E. C. Marchant. 
Xenophon : Scbipta Minoba. E. C. Marchant. 



IN PREPARATION 



Greek Authors 

Akistotle: History of Animals. A. L. Peck, 
Plotinus : A. H. Armstrong. 



Latirt Authors 

Babeius and Phaedbus. Ben E. Perry. 

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